Get Rich or Die Tryin' - Toews, Kane, Keith Officially Locked Up Long-Term
by McClure on Dec 3, 2009 6:47 PM CST
115 comments
After months of speculation, hand-wringing, and gnashing of teeth, Hawks general manager Stan Bowman did what many involved in the NHL thought would be nearly impossible to do - he got his prized talent to extend their contracts, and avoid restricted free-agency.
The numbers that were widely reported were indeed the official ones, and here they are:
Duncan Keith - 13 years, $72 million (Cap hit of $5.53 million)
Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews - 5 Years, $31.5 million a piece (Cap hits of $6.3 million each)
So what does this all mean?
Well, first and foremost on a positive note, the Hawks have wrapped up what they believe to be their core for the next 5 years, that core being Kane, Toews, Hossa, Keith, and Campbell. Not a bad starting 5 skaters by any standards, and every one of them an all star at at least one point in their career, and likely many more to come. Additionally, they've saved themselves the headache of letting other teams potentially offer far more than the Hawks would be capable of in the form of an offer sheet during next June's off-season. While the phalanx of picks the Hawks would receive in return would definitely be an asset (one the Hawks could have traded as soon as they were theirs), it would have stunted the growth of this maturing juggernaut on the ice, and been a big P.R. blow, something the braintrust is far more conscious of these days.
Keith's deal is far and away the most palatable cap hit of the three, and provided he stays healthy, we are all now likely watching the last man to ever wear #2 in the Indian Head. Given his size and the speed at which he plays the game, he could wear down toward the end of that deal, something that's not out of the question after what was shown during last year's post season run. But overall, this is a fine deal. The only major problem with this deal is that much like Toews and Kane, Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook have become inextricably linked with one another, and their play feeds from that, and Seabrook is due for a new deal at the end of next year. While it's different skill sets, it's a reasonable argument that Brent Seabrook is just as valuable to this team as Keith, and should be paid accordingly.
Kane and Toews are a far more curious case. Their identical deals appear to be far less than the hometown discount many thought they'd give, and they also did not receive the "Blackhawk For Life" deal that had been hypothesized. Not only that, but the two of them will be completely unrestricted in their primes, at 26 and 27 respectively, and their salaries are likely to skyrocket even from their current lofty amounts.
From a wider perspective, these deals show that a) Stan Bowman believes his Cup window with this core is 5 more seasons, and b) Bowman is betting the house on his drafting ability. As mentioned above, when Kane and Toews are due, they will likely have a lot deeper resumes than they do currently, and will be expected to be paid as such, with potentially even harder cap hits. And it's possible that at that point that one of the golden children does decide to take his services elsewhere.
To the second point, with all of these big-hit contracts now on the books for quite a while, that means Bowman and the Hawks will have to divest themselves of some of the mid-range contracts currently on the ledger, and get younger and CHEAPER. We've all discussed the candidates to be sent packing for the sake of cap relief, and fuck knows those are our favorite discussions to have in the comments, but realistically, it stands to reason that not much will happen until the conclusion of this season. But, for those interested, keep an eye on the farm and in junior (which the Fifth Feather does a great job of doing for you- read them), as they will be replacing a couple of the Men of Four Feathers you are currently watching- particularly with now-a-priority Niklas Hjalmarsson and Andrew Ladd also restricted this summer. If you're not paying attention to the numbers that Kyle Beach and Shawn Lalonde are putting up right now, you'd be well served to- because Stan Bowman and his crew are.
While we were a little shocked at how high the numbers were at the SCH offices, particularly in comparison to some other names and their respective salaries elsewhere in the league, rest assured that we're thrilled to finally see the Hawks reward and retain such valuable assets and excellent hockey players. And now that this is finally done, it'll be nice to focus on the on-ice product, one that we're all seeing has the potential to produce something very special this spring and into the summer.
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“provided he stays healthy, we are all now likely watching the last man to ever wear #2 in the Indian Head”
Not something that had occured to me. That’s a wonderful observation.
by Dr. Ice on Dec 3, 2009 6:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That really is wonderful to think about. I hope it comes to pass.
by meeshak on Dec 3, 2009 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's like a nasty ex
I can say fucking glad you left to #7 cause my new d-man is SOO much better
"I fornicate and play hockey, cause ther're the 2 most fun things in cold weather"
by Johnny Lava on Dec 4, 2009 12:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The farm and juniors...
are absolutely worth watching closer now. I follow them very loosely on a couple of rookie sites, but I think I’ll have to start paying a fair bit more attention there.
This is just another fantastic day in a string of them since old Wirtz kicked the can. These are fine, fine times to be believin’!
"Call Detroit, tell dem... BULLSHIT!"
by Hungryhawk on Dec 3, 2009 7:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
How many RPMs
are Big Daddy Wirtz’s body producing in his crypt, you think? You could light the UC for all the Hawks home games with that kind of power…
by AirTrafficAJ on Dec 3, 2009 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The organization.....
has to be pulling in some serious coin these days. All Dollar Bill cared about was the bottom line, I think he’d be shocked that this way of doing things is just as profitable (if not more so) than whatever the hell he thought was the way to go.
"If you're scared, go buy a dog" - Stacey King
by hackerar on Dec 3, 2009 7:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There was an interview with Rocky over the summer where he said, when he took over the team, he was shocked to learn the Hawks were operating in the red. He said every other aspect of this father’s business was black like a Sharpie, so it was completely impossible to understand. He’s been incredibly successful turning that around.
by meeshak on Dec 3, 2009 7:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's coming back to straighten it all out...
… right after he finishes his limoncello with Mussolini
by Bonvie5ForFighting on Dec 3, 2009 7:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It was pretty unlikely
That a team that didn’t have Brian Burke as it’s GM would fire out an offer sheet to TKK. But with the Leafs a barren wasteland of scoring, and pressure mounting in Toronto to turn that mess around, Burke may very well have felt that to be the best way to right the ship.
It’s gonna be a glum offseason when some of our favorites are either traded, or not tendered offers, but we just have to remember that it’s all For The Greater Good.
by AirTrafficAJ on Dec 3, 2009 7:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Photo caption
“Instead of the normal shootout contest to end the team’s practice, Quenneville opts for the more discipline-oriented challenge that is Simon Says”
"If you're scared, go buy a dog" - Stacey King
by hackerar on Dec 3, 2009 7:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Seabrook
Agreed on his importance to this team – and they will have to pay him accordingly. He is arguably a top 20 d-man in the league, maybe even top 10, and unfortunately with the madness that free agency is, if we dont lock him up, someone is going offer him some absurd amount of $ and all the pussy in Manhattan ( Uptown, Harlem, and much of Queens included) to come skate for them.
by Bonvie5ForFighting on Dec 3, 2009 7:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hence why the promising development of the underrated Hjalmorssen becomes so key
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 3, 2009 8:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
While Hjalms
Is turning into a stud, he will not be nearly the Defenceman Seabs is. Don’t forget that Dunc has been paired with Seabrook for numerous years. Hjalmarsson will go before Seabrook, he doesn’t have nearly the same shot, doesn’t have the size of Seabs, his speed isn’t much better, and defensive abilities aren’t too close. Not just yet.
Seabs will be here a LONG time. If not the front office will be making a massive mistake.
When in Rome we shall do as the Romans, when in Hell we do shots at the bar.
by HolyBlackhawksBatman on Dec 3, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if I'd agree with the definitive nature of that statement
Is turning into a stud, he will not be nearly the Defenceman Seabs is
Hammer will probably never be as big or as consistently physical as Seabs, but I think his shot (if it continues to develop) can be as good, if not better than seabrook’s. Don’t get me wrong here, I love Seabs game, and right now he is better than Hammer for sure……….Hammer is already better at getting shots to the net than Seabs. Biscuit gets his shot blocked constantly. Yes Biscuit’s shot is bigger, but look at barker, he never cranks it up full go because he knows getting it through is just as important. Hammer’s positioning is outstanding and (I think) will end up being at least as good as Seabs’. I know I know, small sample size from hammer, but just look how much better campbell is in his own zone since he got paired up with him, that is one of the most impressive traits thus far from the young Swede.
"If you're scared, go buy a dog" - Stacey King
by hackerar on Dec 3, 2009 10:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agree about campbell
thats why I like hammer and would rather keep him over seabs. younger and cheaper
"I fornicate and play hockey, cause ther're the 2 most fun things in cold weather"
by Johnny Lava on Dec 4, 2009 12:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong
I don’t agree at all. Look at the amount of points Seabrook has put up throughout his NHL and minor league career as compared to Hjalmarsson. On top of that Campbell has been playing way better than last year defensive wise. (He was also a +5 last season.)
Seabs is one of the nhls top defensemen. I mean he was +5 on the 05-06 shitty team that went on to grab 65 points. In addition, Hammer looked lost in a few playoff games but that was my observation.
And if what Johnny Lava is saying about Hammer being younger (2 years) and cheaper is a reason to give away a guy that will get you at least 30 points a season and is a career +45 at the age of 24 and plays the top lines in hockey every time he gets on the ice, I just don’t find the logic in that.
When in Rome we shall do as the Romans, when in Hell we do shots at the bar.
by HolyBlackhawksBatman on Dec 4, 2009 7:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
my point is that there is only so much money to go around and that like it or not some people are going to have to be moved or let go.
We’re now paying 2 d-men good money for many years now, so I think that hammer’s cheaper contract has value in itself.
"I fornicate and play hockey, cause ther're the 2 most fun things in cold weather"
by Johnny Lava on Dec 4, 2009 8:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
back up the truck here
On top of that Campbell has been playing way better than last year defensive wise. (He was also a +5 last season.)
This is actually one of my points. Campbell has been much better defensively this year (and actually he’s been better since last spring and into the playoffs which is when he and Hammer started skating together). Sure, much of this should be attributed to Campbell getting comfortable in the Indianhead and simply improving his own play, but Hammer should get some credit for campbell’s improved play as well. I think it is much more likely that Hammer is improving Campbell’s play rather than Campbell improving Hammer’s.
I’m not completely on board with Johnny Lava’s opinion that if the hawks had to choose between Hammer and Seabs, they should choose Hammer. Hopefully, the hawks never have to make that choice. I was just pointing out that saying "Hammer won’t be nearly the defenceman that Seabs is a bit premature. ‘Nearly’ implies that he won’t ever be in a class even close to Seabs, which I think, even if he is never the better 2 way defenceman, he absolutely has the capability to be in neighborhood.
"If you're scared, go buy a dog" - Stacey King
by hackerar on Dec 4, 2009 8:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok I agree with
the same neighborhood. I am just saying letting Seabrook isn’t feasible in my opinion but then again I don’t scout talent. As for Hammer improving Campbell I agree but don’t forget Hjalms +/- and play could also be looked at as a beneficiary of Campbell’s offensive output in the latter part of the season. I am not trying to take anything away from Hammer I just don’t see Hammer’s contract being a big deal. He will only have one full season played in the NHL when his contract comes up so hopefully he won’t be making an ungodly amount of money and they can look him up for quite awhile. I don’t see how signing Seabs render a problem in this case. Especially since Sopel will be off the books by way of his contract ending or being shipped off. Supplement that with developing prospects well like LaLonde and Olsen and I see Dunc, Seabs, Soupy, and Hammer being together for awhile. (I honestly think it’ll come down to trading off Barker to assist with keeping these guys.)
If the core of a team is the 10 players people are saying then I wouldn’t mind seeing that core being Toews, Kane, Hossa, Bolland, Sharp (or Versteeg), Ladd (or Brouwer), Phantom, Dunc, Seabs, and Hammer. (Obviously Huet is going to be here awhile too making a lot so that winger position may be subtracted out but I don’t see Ladd or Brouwer asking for insane amounts of money.
6 forwards and 4 defencemen, I like the sounds of that core.
Isn’t it funny to think of how depleted and shitty our Defence was a few years ago calling out Aucoin and Vandermeer(I won’t divulge into the mid to late 90s defence as we all know how that went) and dreaming Dunc and Seabs would really turn into the players scouts were saying they could be.
Damn it feels good to be a Hawks fan.
When in Rome we shall do as the Romans, when in Hell we do shots at the bar.
by HolyBlackhawksBatman on Dec 4, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
damn it feels good to be a gangsta
Point taken.
I did hear from BLou (as he graciously welcomed me to the new NHL model) that…..
The best teams will have 8 to 12 "core" guys, augmented by a rotating mix of cheapish NHL journeyman and youngsters.
"If you're scared, go buy a dog" - Stacey King
by hackerar on Dec 4, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see that quoted one more time...
and heads will roll.
by chiblackhawks on Dec 4, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the funniest thing about it was the progression of this opinion
Instance #1) “I agree with steve konroyd when he said that the new nhl model will consist of………”
Instance #2) “The new nhl model will consist of……..”
Instance #3) “Welcome to the new nhl model, where……..”
"If you're scared, go buy a dog" - Stacey King
by hackerar on Dec 4, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Barry Melrose says it is
IT IS
When in Rome we shall do as the Romans, when in Hell we do shots at the bar.
by HolyBlackhawksBatman on Dec 4, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
$
That’s all I was thinking about. When Seab’s current contract is done how much $ is he going to be looking for? Is his market value in the same range as Dunc’s and if so can a team be viable spending $17 mil per year on 3 d-men?
"I fornicate and play hockey, cause ther're the 2 most fun things in cold weather"
by Johnny Lava on Dec 4, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
That is the question, how much will Seabrook be looking for. I won’t be shocked if they handle his contract this time next year like how they did with the big three. Moving people that aren’t worth their value is key. Buff isn;t in my opinion deserving of 3 mil a year, Sopel will be gone, Campbell is somehow getting interest from other teams(though I find trading him impossible), and if they red wings can dish out 17 million and reek havoc on the nhl for awhile commiting approximately 17 mil to Lidstom, Kronwall, and Rafalski, why can;t we with those three?
When in Rome we shall do as the Romans, when in Hell we do shots at the bar.
by HolyBlackhawksBatman on Dec 4, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not a bad idea
doing things the Detroit way. I think they’ve had some success recently. If we can keep Marlboro 72 together forever I’m all for it
"I fornicate and play hockey, cause ther're the 2 most fun things in cold weather"
by Johnny Lava on Dec 4, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I love when they (Detroit) lose
But I do respect their front office and how they do business, for the most part a very classy organization.
wait what?
by pepe126 on Dec 4, 2009 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that keeing Keith, Seabs, Barker, and Campbell is the right choice.
An expensive choice but the right choice. This is a one tiny sample and just projections on the year, but I think that loosing Seabrook isn’t even an option. Hjardtospell isn’t in the same league as Seabs. http://www.puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=291
The statistics (as they are projections) aren’t necessarily completely accurate, but their is too much of a difference for Hammer to be equal to Seabs. Despite Hjardtospell’s improvement, Seabs is improving too.
Brent Seabrook
In 2003 the Chicago Blackhawks selected Brent Seabrook of the WHL’s Lethbridge Hurricanes in the first round. After the lockout season, Seabrook joined the team and the 24-year-old has missed only one game in the past 3 seasons. He is earning $3.5 million this season.
Season Age Team GP G A PTS RPM OGVT DGVT PCO PCD
2006-07 21 CHI 81 4 20 24 -2 1.8 2.8 9.0 38.6
2007-08 22 CHI 82 9 23 32 7 4.4 5.0 18.9 35.9
2008-09 23 CHI 82 8 18 26 7 1.4 6.0 14.3 47.2
Brent Seabrook has contributed at a consistent level for the Chicago Blackhawks over the past three seasons. His best season offensively was 2007-08, otherwise his primary contributions have been in his own end, where the youngster has always been strong, and gradually improving.
Offense
Season ESG ESA ESGFA PPG PPA PPGFA QTeam GvA Draw ValO PCO
2006-07 0.2 0.7 1.91 0.0 1.4 2.46 1.3 0.05 0.32
2007-08 0.2 0.6 2.59 1.3 2.6 6.08 0.07 1.4 0.3 0.12 0.64
2008-09 0.2 0.5 3.18 0.9 1.6 5.69 0.24 1.1 0.2 0.04 0.45
At even-strength, Seabrook’s even-strength goals-for average has risen from 1.91 in 2006-07 to 3.18 last season, showing that he is being used more regularly to blue-line Chicago’s top forwards. His amazing 0.24 QTeam statistic is further evidence that Seabrook has been the one playing alongside stars like Brian Campbell, Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane and Martin Havlat. Despite that, his even-strength scoring has dropped from 0.9 points per 60 minutes to 0.7 in that same time period, meaning he’s not really to credit for the increase in offense, which might drop dramatically if he’s demote to the 2nd or 3rd line.
Defense
Season ESGAA SHGAA QComp Hit BkS TkA Pen ValD PCD
2006-07 2.40 5.44 — 5.2 4.6 0.6 – 0.08 1.38
2007-08 2.18 8.28 0.27 5.7 3.6 0.7 1.1 0.14 1.22
2008-09 2.22 7.08 0.08 7.0 3.5 0.8 0.8 0.17 1.48
In 2007-08 Seabrook was used against the very best competition (0.27 QComp) and yet kept even-strength scoring to a very reasonable 2.18 per 60 minutes. His already impressive physical play has improved, throwing 7.0 hits per 60 minutes, even though he has managed to decrease his total number of minor penalties taken down to 0.8. He blocks fewer shots now than he used to (3.5 per 60 minutes in 2008-09, down from 4.6 three seasons ago), but both his GVT and his PC indicate that he is among the league’s best defensive defensemen, and gradually improving in his own end.
Wrap Up
Brent Seabrook has earned a reputation of being one of the league’s top defensive defensemen, and is so valuable in that capacity that Chicago has come to use him on their top unit. The young superstar could have an opportunity to play for the Gold Medal on the Canadian Olympic team, and certainly a good chance to compete for the Stanley Cup in the very near future.
The Hjalmmer maybe getting better, but I think that the numbers that take a more holistic approach show that Seabs is at the very least quite a bit better.
I want to make it clear that I’m pulling what’s available to me. Hjalmerson has gotten better than his projections would indicate at the beginning of the season, but he’s not Seabs.
I think that it’s reasonable to keep Barker, Campbell, Keith, and Seabs.
If you have to get rid of people you get rid of madden, buff, fraser, and if they must Bolland. I would rather they keep Bolland, but if they can’t they can’t.
Coleslaw, it's what's for Picnic.
by Madlarkin on Dec 4, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i hate to do this to you considering all the work you put into that comment
90% of which I didn’t even read, but it’s not a matter of choosing between Hammer and Seabrook for me, so your point’s a little moot.
Why would you pick Barker over Hammer?
by chiblackhawks on Dec 4, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me boil it down
Barker’s offensive ability alone outweighs Hammer’s defensive and offensive production. Barker isn’t much of a defensive defenseman, but you take production anyway you can get it. If one player is really good defensively, but below average offensively (or visa versa) and still have a very high PC or GVT then it doesn’t matter. Thing is though Barker doesn’t suck defensively, he just isn’t elite defensively. The best players in Hockey (Malkin, Ovie, Crosby, Gaborik (this year at least), Thorton, Lidstrom, Pronger, etc) are great two way players, but you can be a really good player only playing one side of the puck really, really well.
Coleslaw, it's what's for Picnic.
by Madlarkin on Dec 7, 2009 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to keep this exact roster together for 5 years
But that isn’t realistic. I don’t think they can afford to keep an aging madden. Unfortunately, he just becomes a cap casualty. I wish it weren’t so, I love Maddens defensive ability, but it is a fact. If losing madden means holding on to Seabs and Barker, I’ll take it.
Coleslaw, it's what's for Picnic.
by Madlarkin on Dec 7, 2009 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Five years is plenty of horizon...
…for a team going on fifty since its last Cup.
“Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.”
I’m pretty sure St. Matthew was making a coy reference to Scum, Canucks etc. here.
I’m fucking thrilled, and can now block out all armchair-GMing for the next several months.
by cliffkoroll on Dec 3, 2009 7:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Mentalism in the front office...
Stan Bowman believes his Cup window with this core is 5 more seasons
I disagree here. The calculus on the 5 yr deals for Daydream Nation likely owes more to their agent than the Hawks management. Any self-respecting agent would be insane to allow them to sign for more than 5 yrs, a number that puts them both in the prime of their careers when the deals expire and positions them admirably for an even bigger payday given that the cap is still rising and the value of franchise-face players only seems to skyrocket these days. I’d be willing to bet that if Hawks management could have signed them both to 10 or 15 year deals without mortgaging the arena to pay for it, it probably would have happened. Those two are too valuable from a publicity standpoint not to lock them in for as long as humanly possible. But Kane and Toews, from an agent’s standpoint, would be acting against their own self-interest to sign for more than 5. Ergo, the deal that we see now.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Dec 3, 2009 7:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping their next contract
is when we’ll see the so-called “hometown discounts.” Miniscule chance, maybe, but we can hope?
by gmh on Dec 3, 2009 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
on one hand, maybe the cap is a higher figure by that time...
on the other, maybe the new CBA will have found a way to close off these lifetime contracts meant to bring down the cap hits, AND the cap doesn’t change much. Then the “hometown discount” is our best bet.
Except Crosby and Malkin, at $8.7m/year, are said to have taken hometown discounts too. FML. (Okay, so they’re maybe light years ahead than 1988, but just how cheap can hometown discounts be?)
by chiblackhawks on Dec 3, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure where this idea that Kane and Toews didn't take hometown discounts started but
Kane, for sure, did. If you look at players with a similar stat line and draft slot and what they received after their rookie contract expired, Paul Stastny and Anze Kopitar come to mind. Both have cap hits well above the 6.3. Kane wouldn’t have been out of line asking for way more money than those two.
The Mike Richards comparison for Toews, which seems to be the stem of a lot of anger for some, doesn’t really fly either. Toews nearly had more points in his rookie season than Richards did in his first two years combined. So when Richards signed his big contract after his rookie deal, he had one season of 50 or more points. Toews already has two.
FifthFeather.com
by El Duque's Raft on Dec 4, 2009 8:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the new NHL
The best teams will have 8 to 12 “core” guys, augmented by a rotating mix of cheapish NHL journeyman and youngsters.
I have faith in Stan Bowman to conduct the delicate dance with the salary cap dollars. But damned, I’m going to miss Patrick Sharp.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 3, 2009 8:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
we get it
stop copy-pasting the same line you’ve been saying for the last 50 million posts. I am pretty sure you are capable of forming more than one thought.
by chiblackhawks on Dec 3, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i still say the cap should be lower but all players who are still with their original NHL team are exempt. So, in other words, it only applies to free agents.
Isn’t there some sort of a suggestion box i can put this in?
by SLoop on Dec 3, 2009 8:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Satisfaction
…of a jorb well done.
by Hi, I'm Bob LeDonne on Dec 3, 2009 9:19 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I wanna see
the SCH offices. ;)
If I can't be a good example, I'll just be a horrible warning
by Trixietrx on Dec 3, 2009 9:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
3224 W. Fullerton
www.secondcityhockey.com
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame.
by McClure on Dec 3, 2009 9:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I guessed correctly.
I would have been disappointed if it had not been a bar.
by Spotacus on Dec 3, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep an eye out for the Second City Hockey – Double Live Gonzo cds on the jukebox soon
by Matthew Dirt on Dec 3, 2009 10:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth
and it’s so far down the line, it may not even matter but in six years when the Kane and Toews deals do expire, Campbell’s $7 million and change hit also comes off the books. Thought that was kind of interesting.
FifthFeather.com
by El Duque's Raft on Dec 3, 2009 10:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Excellent point – I hadn’t seen that mentioned yet.
by Slaky on Dec 3, 2009 11:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
also remember
the current CBA expires after the 2010-11 season, with a union option to extend one year. After the last CBA expired teams had a one time buyout window where buyouts did not count towards the cap and most likely could have a similar window with the next CBA. I would not rule out the possibility that someone in the front office is hoping they could ditch a contract or two to free up money that way as well.
by runningquicklynowhere on Dec 4, 2009 8:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But the CBA expiring will make matters worse for Chicago this summer not better. Why? All bonuses will count against the cap which suddenly makes rookies like Kyle Beach more expensive because you have to leave more room to fit them in under the cap.
All things Thrashers + stats: www.birdwatchersanonymous.com
by The Falconer on Dec 6, 2009 7:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're off here
I remember reading this post and thinking, hmm that’s good news. As I revisit this, campbell’s deal will go 1 year past kane and toews’.
Campbell becomes a UFA before the 2016-2017 season. He is on his second year of an 8 year deal.
Kane and Toews have 5 year deals. They will become UFAs before the 2015-2016 season.
Now, with campbell being on the last year of his deal, there would obviously be free’d up money on the horizon, but they don’t line up exactly.
"If you're scared, go buy a dog" - Stacey King
by hackerar on Dec 6, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well those are 3 "Juicy" contracts aren't they?
O.K. that was bad, but I couldn’t help myself after reading the caption under Kane’s photo.
I have to say it’s really remarkable to finally see the Blackhawks finally become a franchise willing to keep their ‘core group’ together (as for may years this wasn’t the case) even if it has led to a little overpayment towards Toews and Kane. $6.3M per season? C’mon Stan, you don’t really think they’re worth that much right now do you?
Love D2K’s deal as not only does it lock up one of the best rearguards in the league but it keeps him in the fold for, most likely, the duration of his career and at a $5.5M cap hit I can live with that. D2K is one of the best defenceman…fuck that! Is the best defenceman in the NHL right now and will win the Norris Trophy this season. +72 over the past 2 seasons plus this season. Enough said.
This is going to be an exciting team for a long time and may we hope it eventually brings the most prestigous trophy in sports – the Stanley Cup – back home to Chicago.
It's never about the eventual destination, but rather the long journey and its challenging obstacles that are presented and what it takes to overcome them, that makes the taste of success all the more worthwhile!!!
by hawks61 on Dec 3, 2009 10:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So why did we get the owner who was willing to spend
AFTER they made a salary cap?
/we’re doing it wrong
twitter.com/BlackhawksDL
by Original Six on Dec 4, 2009 12:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Whats the cap going to be in 5 years?
my time-machine is broken
"I fornicate and play hockey, cause ther're the 2 most fun things in cold weather"
by Johnny Lava on Dec 4, 2009 12:33 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Ask Sam
His seems to be working quite well.
by illinikc33 on Dec 4, 2009 7:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Another big upside to these extensions...
…that I hadn’t considered til right now, and haven’t seen posted before yet it well could have been: In theory, this should light a fire under the asses of all those 2-4 mil salary range guys, because now more than ever, they know they’re auditioning for their jobs for the remainder of this season or the next. And from all the reports we get about the great chemistry on this team, the fun, laid-back locker room atmosphere, I don’t think anybody wants to be the odd man out. This bus is rolling gentlemen, let’s see who wants a seat the most…
...Feeding Rene Bourque his own dick since 11/19/09
by Hjammer of the Gods on Dec 4, 2009 10:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Great thought
I hadn’t thought of that. You’re right Barker/Buff/VEERSTEEG/SHARP don’t want to be the cap casualty so they’ll play as if they’re auditioning. Much like Fraser who can’t win a fight to save his job
September 26, 2007 The day a Franchise was reborn.
by Roos-34 on Dec 4, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
while this is a very reasonable theory......
I’m not so sure Buff and Versteeg know what day it is, much less where they fit into the hawks future.
"If you're scared, go buy a dog" - Stacey King
by hackerar on Dec 4, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Grouping Buff and Versteeg this way...
…is maasively unfair to steeger. Yeah, he’s got his head up his ass sometimes, but the effort is almost always there.
by cliffkoroll on Dec 4, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
its a shot at Steeger’s effort- more to the fact that we might assume he has no clue what tagging space or salary caps are and how this may effect who signs his checks
by ChargingMajor on Dec 4, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying I don't like Versteeg
I do, just making a joke that ,with hyperbole aside, has a very small smidge of truth to it. I know a young lady who works for the hawks and she says he isn’t the sharpest skate blade.
"If you're scared, go buy a dog" - Stacey King
by hackerar on Dec 4, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Think it’s safe to say that although hockey players have pretty respectable IQs in the main compared to other big league sports—still, they didn’t get to be great hockey players by spending a ton of time doing homework.
by ChicoMaki on Dec 4, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if Versteeg's a little slow...
…then it’s probably just ’cause Sarah Spain fucked his brains out
...Feeding Rene Bourque his own dick since 11/19/09
by Hjammer of the Gods on Dec 4, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In my country, we call that a “matchup problem”. Versteeg wouldn’t be able to walk, much less think if he and Spain collided.
www.secondcityhockey.com
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame.
by McClure on Dec 4, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't they they have to worry about.....
Buff gone at 3 mil too much talent comin up
Sopel gone at 2.33 mill (average)—replace talent available at Rockford
Huet gone at 5.625……..not sure here…Win a Cup and he is tradeable
Versteeg stays here at 3 mil—-too much upside
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
by ccm on Dec 4, 2009 11:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
one could also subscribe to the inconceivable theory that.....
“win a cup,” recognize the success of one’s investment, and keep your stanley cup winning goalie for the final 2 years of his deal.
"If you're scared, go buy a dog" - Stacey King
by hackerar on Dec 4, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
thank you for not supporting the “If Huet leads us to the ultimate goal we can finally get rid of him” theory
by ChargingMajor on Dec 4, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wait
we’re not trying to win a cup just to disprove the “Huet can’t win in the playoffs” theory so he can then be traded?
what the hell are we trying to win for then?
"I fornicate and play hockey, cause ther're the 2 most fun things in cold weather"
by Johnny Lava on Dec 4, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
seconded.
Especially since no one’s ever come up with a viable suggestion for a replacement.
by chiblackhawks on Dec 4, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Stan Bowman
is that you?
...Feeding Rene Bourque his own dick since 11/19/09
by Hjammer of the Gods on Dec 4, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It is not unlikely that this team can overcome Huets '
short-comings in goal. He is not a top tier goalie. He becomes quite desirable for having been on a team winning a cup. He is a terrible value
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
by ccm on Dec 4, 2009 12:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Winning is winning. Would you have taken Osgood’s short-comings at an overpriced 5 million per year if it meant three Cups? I would.
by ChicoMaki on Dec 4, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh c'mon
Osgood’s not a top-tier goalie either! ccm want’s one of those
Like Luongo…
or Kiprusoff…
or Nabokov…
Those are the goalies that will carry a franchise. But no Cups. Those are unimportant.
"I fornicate and play hockey, cause ther're the 2 most fun things in cold weather"
by Johnny Lava on Dec 4, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
ixnay on the errible-tay alue-vay. Don’t you know all the NH GMs read this board? We have to keep them in the dark, because obviously they’ll never realize this on their own.
...Feeding Rene Bourque his own dick since 11/19/09
by Hjammer of the Gods on Dec 4, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well at least the other GMs will know Huet is available in trade as soon as he wins a Cup. I’m not sure anyone would have been prepared for that
by ChargingMajor on Dec 4, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
a terrible value for us
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
by ccm on Dec 4, 2009 12:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
i don't get it
Some of you guys whine about Campbell being over-paid ALLLLLLLLLL the time….yet Huet gets a free pass …..He has no confidence-a terrible glove hand—- and flops around like he is having a seizure. All while makin Kane-Toews money. Huet salary is the one to move …..who is gonna take him at his current salary????
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
by ccm on Dec 4, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t think of a more incorrect statement than “Huet gets a free pass.” There have been people RIPPING him non-stop since last year. Go back and look at any comment section you want from the first week of this season and you will see the human pinata that was Cristobal Huet. I think he is good enough to win the Cup for us – and apparently so do you – and I can’t imagine why you would then get rid of him as we try to defend the title
by ChargingMajor on Dec 4, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i've gotten a concussion from banging my head on the desk after reading your comment
To whom and where should I send the medical bills?
by chiblackhawks on Dec 4, 2009 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Huet has never gotten a free pass
Whenever he struggles the trade talk starts. Why is anyone whining about Campbell? The Hawks getting an elite blue liner (offensively and defensively) for a ton of money. They’re getting what we payed for.
Huet, in an average year, would be a little worse than Khabbi, but not by much. He has his faults, certainly (terrible glove hand, doesn’t reset to standing position fast enough after a shot that doesn’t get through, goes down too quickly, etc), but he also is an above average goalie nontheless.
Coleslaw, it's what's for Picnic.
by Madlarkin on Dec 7, 2009 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
as long as we're judging on seasons past...
-The Hawks are boned without Havlat, last year’s team MVP.
-Kane is still lazy, doesn’t backcheck, and gets knocked off the puck too easily.
-Toews is merely mediocre in the faceoff circle.
-Brouwer sucks and can’t finish.
Or maybe we should judge just on the first 10 games of this season:
-Byfuglien will be a 30 goal scorer and become the league’s premier power forward.
-Sharp will pot 50+ goals.
-Niemi will sport a -1.00 GAA for the season (That’s right, he’ll score one every game.)
Did I miss anything? Live in the now, man. On paper, yes, it’s not the greatest value. But there’s a reason they play the games.
...Feeding Rene Bourque his own dick since 11/19/09
by Hjammer of the Gods on Dec 4, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Was this discussion about the salary cap next season or
did this morph into another bitch session?
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
by ccm on Dec 4, 2009 12:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
huh?
sooo… your problem with Huet is the contract? Is it your opinion that no goalie should be paid that much due to the cap?
"I fornicate and play hockey, cause ther're the 2 most fun things in cold weather"
by Johnny Lava on Dec 4, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
With a tight salry cap comin next season....
tell me …..can we afford a superstar paid goalie …who doesn’t perform like a superstar paid goalie?
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
by ccm on Dec 4, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
how?
like cry after losing a playoff series?
"I fornicate and play hockey, cause ther're the 2 most fun things in cold weather"
by Johnny Lava on Dec 4, 2009 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's somewhere in between
I’m not trying to come down on you at all, it’s just that we’ve all been playing the Pretend-GM game ad nauseum here since the Hossa signing, and it’s gotten old for the simple fact that there’s just not many moves you can make. Hence, once those routes have been discussed, it’s just rehashing and beating a dead horse. The one accepted fact that we’ve held from the start is that the albatross contracts of Campbell and Huet cannot be moved, something you’ve said yourself. So while we can bitch at them all day for underperforming, we can blame Dale Tallon for giving them that kind of money.
Re: Huet, discounting his first few starts, he’s having quite the season. Prone to a softie here and there? Yes. Prone to making a save he has no business making here and there? Also yes. Fact is, this team is good enough that all Huet has to do is keep them in most games, and veeeeery occasionally steal one. Thus far, check on both counts. Two employ an oft-used phrase here: Nothing is fucked, dude.
...Feeding Rene Bourque his own dick since 11/19/09
by Hjammer of the Gods on Dec 4, 2009 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok....
…………do I fault Micheal Jordan for cryin’ for winning or Luongo for cryin for losing …..no
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
by ccm on Dec 4, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Epic
reply fail
"If you're scared, go buy a dog" - Stacey King
by hackerar on Dec 4, 2009 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hah
...Feeding Rene Bourque his own dick since 11/19/09
by Hjammer of the Gods on Dec 4, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
name names please
who fits your idea of superstar goalies?
"I fornicate and play hockey, cause ther're the 2 most fun things in cold weather"
by Johnny Lava on Dec 4, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Patrick Roy
Dominick Hasek
HAHA sorry couldn’t resist
September 26, 2007 The day a Franchise was reborn.
by Roos-34 on Dec 4, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brodeur
I almost put in that class. Hasn’t won a Cup post lockout
"I fornicate and play hockey, cause ther're the 2 most fun things in cold weather"
by Johnny Lava on Dec 4, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
...............Huet?
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
by ccm on Dec 4, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Roster
so tell me where we are gonna knock off salary?
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
by ccm on Dec 4, 2009 12:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
My brain hurts
Its gotta be time for tonights preview so we can move on
by ChargingMajor on Dec 4, 2009 1:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of beating deadbeats err horses
Anyone hear about Tiger Woods? He cheated on his wife
September 26, 2007 The day a Franchise was reborn.
by Roos-34 on Dec 4, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought
it was ok if you were in a different time zone
"I fornicate and play hockey, cause ther're the 2 most fun things in cold weather"
by Johnny Lava on Dec 4, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
where did you hear of this wild rumor?
by ChargingMajor on Dec 4, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TMZ of course
or maybe it was Wikipedia
I get those 2 reliable sources mixed up all the time
September 26, 2007 The day a Franchise was reborn.
by Roos-34 on Dec 4, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In his pre-Westminster days, the quote “the key to having two girlfriends is having two cell phones” was attributed to Mike Vick. Apparently Tiger could have learned that lesson.
by hawksfan21 on Dec 4, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone forgot to tell Ron Mexico that the key to not getting herpes is wearing a condom
by ChargingMajor on Dec 4, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
according to wikipedia I am going to get shitfaced watching the Hawks tonight- and that is factual
by ChargingMajor on Dec 4, 2009 1:58 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
reply fail overcome...
…with hilariousness
by cliffkoroll on Dec 4, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
is this wat she is talking about?
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
by ccm on Dec 4, 2009 2:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
taBruiser??
Is that You?
Reply Fails…
silly GM Role Play….
it has to be you
September 26, 2007 The day a Franchise was reborn.
by Roos-34 on Dec 4, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
will the real Stan Bowman
please stand up
...Feeding Rene Bourque his own dick since 11/19/09
by Hjammer of the Gods on Dec 4, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
guilty
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
by ccm on Dec 4, 2009 2:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
by ccm on Dec 4, 2009 2:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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