Discussion on Guidelines
by Killion on Mar 13, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
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PrintSo lets try this again - I screwed up on something and had to take down the other post that mjthor started about the discussion on...er... discussions but I think it's a valid topic that should be talked about so lets give it another go.
I just changed the guidelines for anyone who is signing up now in a very minor way. So for now - here are the rules of Second City Hockey:
- Be respectful to other users (even those from Detroit and St. Louis).
- Leave the racism, homophobia and sexism for the message boards.
- Wait for the whistle.
- Cheer during the anthem.
- Lets. Go. Hawks.
As I said before, those are intentionally left pretty open. I want discussions and disagreements on the site and in the comments. If you disagree with someone's opinion, say so but make sure you can say why. What I don't want is just endless back and forth name-calling. Or any name-calling at all for the most part. I hated trying to talk to fans on Hawks message boards so I started a blog hoping to create something new.
Luckily we're still a pretty small community that we can pretty much police oursevles and I don't have to go in and delete comments or ban users.
So as I said before - keep things light-hearted and try to have thick skin if someone's breaking your balls about something. Give as good as you get and don't be shocked when someone disagrees but don't be a dick.
One thing I am curious about is people who read this site and don't comment at all. I can tell by the traffic we get that there are plenty of people coming back to the site that don't comment and I'd like this to be a chance for all of you to jump in and join us. The more people we get the better so tell me what you want to see and what you don't want. If you'd like to email me about it that's cool too - herecomethehawks@gmail.com
Sorry for having to get rid of the last post - but have at it again...
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Thanks for this.
I was wondering where it went, and quite frankly I’m okay with at least part of the comments section disappearing.
The only thing I’d like to add — and I wouldn’t necessarily call it a guideline, just a useful piece of information for new commenters to know — is that people will read and reply to your comments. I don’t want to discourage anyone from posting, because god knows I probably shouldn’t post half the shit I do, but just know that if you post bullshit, expect to get some critical responses. Ideally conversations will be constructive, but expect criticism regardless.
By all means, post what you think, but expect people to disagree. Disagreement is good. And to the people that read the site but don’t comment: I used to be that guy, too. I thought I didn’t know enough about hockey to participate (I still probably don’t), but it’s a lot more fun if you do. You’ll learn a lot if you put your opinion out there for other people to discuss, even if your opinion is way fucking misguided (as mine often are).
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The purpose of the Internet...
…is the free and open exchange of ideas.
In fact, disagreement is the very foundation of learning. Groupthink not only leads to no advancement of thinking, but it makes for a crappy blog.
Other than that, as long as you follow the same rules you should follow in life, it’s all jake…1) don’t dish it out if you can’t take it, and 2) don’t say anything to/about anyone online that you’d be afraid to do face-to-face.
BTW, I know what you mean about non-commenters. We get a couple hundred hits a day at our place, but there’s a paucity of comments.
HOCKEENIGHT.COM...home of FRIDAY NIGHT FIGHTS and LEAVE IT TO BETTMAN...now with PODCASTING!!!
Banning
My advice to you is to not ban people. That practice has lost many potential readers and posters at other blogs. It also tends to lead to the very problems (groupthink) that Forklift mentions.
And yes, I signed up here on Fork’s recommendation. So you can thank him for anything I may do on here in the future. Muahahahahahahaha.
If anything I said in that last thread
was something that either shouldn’t have been said or something that lead to any issues, I apologize. I also echo what Morpheus said. Allowing all opinions to be heard, even by idiots like myself, is the best way to go. More often than not, I found it leads to good things. I’ve had numerous opinions and assumptions that have been swayed by others basically telling me what a fucking moron I was being.
Don't trust Yeti
I mean, he doesn’t even like bacon.
HOCKEENIGHT.COM...home of FRIDAY NIGHT FIGHTS and LEAVE IT TO BETTMAN...now with PODCASTING!!!
I don't like bacon either...
But I do like Canadian bacon. I am a terrible American.
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Another really important thing to highlight:
http://www.stlouisgametime.com/2009/3/13/796404/on-recommends-at-this-site
Do what this guy says. Recs are a good thing.
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Stick to the sport!!!
Discussion amongst peers is engaging and thought provoking! Have no problem with someone disagreeing with my current assessment of the Hawks and/or the game of hockey itself. What I do have a problem with is when someone facilitates an arguement or catagorizes their comments based on another’s nationality, ethnicity, or religious beliefs! That in my mind is going too far! Nobody needs to remark on one’s post that the reason for their disagreement is based on where they are from or who they are! It not only doesn’t belong here but in society in general! In the end there is no reason to have conflicts here, just indifferences of opinion and I am all for that!!!
In the end we are just fans!!!
Everyone here posts on Second City because they are fans of the Hawks, and that’s all! Nobody here is an English professor, and nobody here needs to be reminded that they are back in high school with someone else remarking about their sentence structure or spelling! This is not only childish but disrespectful. Please just stick to hockey and discussion of the sport and post away the more the merrier! Constructive discussion is good as long as it sticks to the game!!!
We need to have them over at our place for a FRIDAY NIGHT FIGHT
HOCKEENIGHT.COM...home of FRIDAY NIGHT FIGHTS and LEAVE IT TO BETTMAN...now with PODCASTING!!!
Question for chicagokill?
Would you tolerate blatant racism? Would you tolerate someone mocking your every post? Would you tolerate someone that has never posted anything about the game due to their lack of knowledge of the sport? The answer to all 3 is probably NO!!! Then why should I or anyone else tolerate it as well! The answer to your question of ‘do I have to seperate you two?’ is NO! In my part there is no conflict, just frustration of the fact that mjthor can’t post anything that sticks to the game but rather unleashes personal attacks on anyone that disagrees with him. Your #1 guideline is to respectful to other users yet mjthor can carry out begrudging comments without consequences. If it is a guideline then everyone should adhere to it not just a select few, or in this case, one! Everyone else here posts interesting discussions and/or comments but one person can’t . Frustrating that’s all! Love this site, love this forum and LET’S GO HAWKS!!!
haha, I actually thought about that when I posted it
but it had nothing to do with her race or gender, she was just the best example I found of the emotion I wanted to portray.
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Who would tolerate embarrassing America?
Apparently so-called Hawks fans.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
Sorry but............
……….the anthem thing is wrong and it will always be wrong.
Frankly, it’s the shame of Chicago. Disgusting as it is disgraceful.
The mentality of this so-called “great idea” has to change somewhere and this would be a great starting point.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
never....
sorry man. I’ll clapping and cheering in the UC even if I’m the only one doing it. If the Hawks lose the cheering during the anthem it’ll be a sad sad day.
It's called the First Amendment.
It allows the “right” to be rude and irreverent. No changing the Amendment, nor should we.
But it would be a lot better if people in St. Loser were the ones who didn’t show respect during the Anthem. Then we could poke fun at them, kinda like all the other fans in the NHL do at us now.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
ummm.....
i didnt realize that cheering america was rude.
a wise man once said “if you dont like america you can geeet out”
Actually, I am the one who likes America.
Why are you, presumably, being irreverent to the country you supposedly like?
“Cheering America”, as you say, is not necessarily rude, but WHEN you do it certainly can be. Our National Anthem is set aside for times of reflection and respect, something that can’t happen when you are “cheering” (and I use that term loosely) while the song is being sung.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
Lets go ahead and nip part of this in the bud. We’re not going to go anywhere with debating each other’s patriotism. We all like/love America so lets not go down that route. If you want to talk about why you feel it’s disrespectful that’s fine but lets not fall into that old trap.
I meant to respond to wennington4............
…………in the post directly above, but hit the wrong key.
He suggested I “geeet out” based upon my views.
I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how the “Disgrace on Damen” is NOT disrespectful.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
You may want to explain what "Disgrace on Damen" is...............................................................
……………………………………………………………………………………………And I’m still not sure how cheering during the anthem is disrespectful. We all know what the anthem symbolizes and represents — even those from other countries. If anything, I view cheering during the anthem as more support for it. Fans love it, the singers get a kick out of it, and at its root, it’s connected to the “ideals” of our America.
Also, I’m not sure where you got the idea that the anthem is intended as a time of silent reflection. Many people sing along with it, and the tune is actually from an old English drinking song. I’d argue that cheering during the anthem creates a more patriotic atmosphere than silently listening to mindlessly singing along. And fuck — it’s a professional sports game. Some pro sport teams use AC/DC songs to “pump fans up” before the game, but why not use a symbol of national pride?
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I mentioned "reflection" in my post.........
………and while not necessarily silent, it should be reverent. The singing of our anthem clearly falls within such parameters.
Let’s cut to the chase: There’s roughly 18K who attend Hawks games that seem to think this is acceptable behavior. This isn’t done at other sports arenas around CHICAGO, let alone other parts of our great nation.
If it wasn’t rude and instead “a great idea”, don’t you think it would have taken hold in other parts of our City?!?!
But no. Other sports fans in other venues, apparently, understand appropriate behavior during the playing of the National Anthem. That’s the “Disgrace on Damen”.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
I think we’re all coming at this from different angles. Ideally, I’d like to get into this in the off-season when there’s not so much hockey to talk about but for now here’s my thoughts.
I think you’re dead wrong when you say “If it wasn’t rude and instead "a great idea", don’t you think it would have taken hold in other parts of our City?!?!”
Every team should have their own tradition. Cubs fans don’t sing “hey hey goodbye” when a pitcher is pulled, Sox fans don’t sing “take me out the ballgame” the same way as cubs fans, and if I ever went to a Bulls game I’m sure I’d notice something they do there. I’ve never been to a Wolves game either but I hear they sometimes cheer during the anthem too, anyone else know more about that?
Just because others don’t do it doesn’t mean it’s wrong. It’s what makes it such a great experience at a Hawks game. When I’m listening to the anthem at another game, I hate to tell you, but I’m not reflecting anything. I listen to the song and how ever it’s usually mangled. I’m looking around at who is near me or watching the athletes to see what they’re doing. We’re so used to the anthem that it’s dulled and just part of the routine.
That’s never the case at a Hawks game. I’m into the song, i’m cheering, clapping, whistling.. whatever.
It’s a tradition I don’t see going away for a long time and it’s not something I think other cities look down on us for either. Every comment I remember from the Winter Classic talked about how awesome the anthem was with 40K cheering along with.
Plus – have you ever actually tried to sing that song? Fuck man, I can’t sing that. So this is just another way to participate.
I'm okay with sticking to hockey discussions, but..........
………..you can’t compare our National Anthem – which is played at the start of every sporting event across our nation – to “Sha Na Na Na” or “Take Me Out” or “Go Cubs Go” or “I Love LA” or “NY, NY”, etc. The Hawks equivalent in your suggestion would be “Here Come the Hawks”, which, of course, I support wholeheartedly.
I agree that to many the Anthem has become “routine”. That’s sad. It should mean something more to all of us. We’re lucky to be here and recognition of same should be realized as the flag goes up the pole and the instrument strikes its chords.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
I’m not comparing the anthem to other songs that are used at other sporting events, but I was just pointing out that each team has something unique about them. I was simply trying to argue with the “if it was so good, other teams would do it” line of thinking.
Anyways, I’m bowing out of this debate and saving it for a rainy day.
Well.....................................................................................................................................................
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………. that’s a pretty big logical fallacy upon which you’re basing your entire argument. “Nobody else does it, so it must be wrong.”
Yeah, um…
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Frankly...........
………..it’s just a very minor indicator that it is wrong, and hardly the basis for my “entire argument” as you erroneously suggest.
Step back in time to grade school (assuming you’re no longer there), when you stood each morning and said the “Pledge of Allegiance”. Remember how you were taught to be respectful and reverent, not only for that event, but as part of the correct behavior whenever our country’s flag is being addressed. If you can think back to those things you learned (or should have) in the past, the proper answers become self-evident.
chicagokill has it partially correct; even Hawks fans at other Chicago events don’t behave in the same fashion. That doesn’t make it proper at Hawks games, but it begs the question, “Why do it in the first place?”
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
So we're not supposed to question anything our country stands for?
We’re just supposed to blindly memorize a speech? I understand where you’re coming from now. Got it.
By the way, next time you encounter a 6 year old, ask him or her what the “Pledge of Allegiance” means.
Also, your underhanded insult of “assuming you’re no longer there” was pretty lame. If you’re going to insult me or my intelligence, at least do so in a creative or — preferably — funny way.
And now I understand your argument a little bit better; you’re saying everyone should adhere to your narrowly-defined “standards” of behavior. Sounds like a Jehovah’s Witness to me. Save your prescriptivist bullshit for somewhere else.
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We all...........
………..blindly memorized the Pledge. You did. I did. We all did. It’s part of our cultural roots.
Understanding the meaning is far more critical, and while it is only words to a 6-year old, deeper feelings blossom as one grows older and begins to realize the fortunes of living in this country.
So when it’s widely accepted (even beyond the Jehovah’s Witness following) that folks behave reverently when Old Glory goes up the pole, I’m having a hard time comprehending your position. You attack these “narrowly-defined standards”, yet they’re widely accepted across our nation (and the globe, for that matter) as proper behavior. Who’s the one paddling upstream?
Lastly, you’re skin is clearly thinner than your skull. Anyone can blog, and since many of your remarks mirror those of a 10-year old, my “insult” was more factual than critical.
There now……….was that more creative?
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
You sure are a damn good troll.
I almost thought you were serious there for a minute. Good show.
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Wow...
this certainly got off on a tangent, didn’t it?
The Star-Spangled Banner is a song about the Battle of Fort McHenry, never mentions America (by name) at all.
Besides, the standing and applauding started during the first Gulf War, as a way of showing support.
I think this whole debate is making a mountain out of a molehill.
HOCKEENIGHT.COM...home of FRIDAY NIGHT FIGHTS and LEAVE IT TO BETTMAN...now with PODCASTING!!!
What in the World?!!!
What in the world is tville saying? Not stop cheering during the anthem right? LMAO you have got to be kidding? This is the most assinine thing I’ve ever read! It is single-handedly the most incredible thing to witness and to be a part of (Winter Classic)! How is that not patriotic? I wish most Canadian fans of Canadian teams did that more often. At Wrigley during the Winter Classic the American Anthem just sent chivers down my spine INCREDIBLE! Cheering for your anthem is very patriotic especially in times like these post 9/11!!!
Really?
How?
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
*grabs popcorn*
NOW STOP IT RIGHT HERE
by mjthor on Mar 16, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Went to my first game at the United Center this season...
…had forewarning from a buddy that the fans do the cheering thing during the Anthem. Admittedly, as it started I had a raised eye brow, but then I looked from the flag in the rafters to the fans in the stands and the singer on the ice (who was reveling in it, by the way) and, I gotta admit..it was pretty amazing. While you can say that it’s done to simply prove a point (“listen to how loud we are — woo!!!”), I think it’s actually kind of…uplifting (no, that’s not the right word – but my thesaurus is in the other room)? The National Anthem is, after all, a celebratory theme. It can be observed in silent reverence, yes, but doesn’t necessarily require it. And frankly, I think it’s far more disgusting when a singer, in a quiet stadium, takes it upon themselves to do that Christina-Aguilera-American-Idol vocal crap.
Final story…Winter Classic, I was about eight blocks from Wrigley, and it was even more amazing sitting on the back porch and hearing a deafening, three-minute uproar for the National Anthem and the hometown Hawks. And I’m not even a Blackhawks fan…
I once shot a man just to see him die...then I got distracted and missed it.
by TheDuke32 on Mar 16, 2009 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
How did a post about
community discussion guidelines turn into one dbag’s rant about the national anthem?
You can go to any other sporting event, where people are scratching themselves waiting for the anthem to be over, or you can go to the Madhouse on Madison (v.2.0), where the anthem is a vocal expression of pride in the US.
If you don’t like it, then don’t go to a Hawks games. Problem solved.
by chrome on Mar 16, 2009 8:32 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
What if I told you I drank a couple
pitcher’s worth of ‘green’ beer Saturday. That ought to lower any respect my witty witticisms have garnered with you.
You're a bit behind.
A post way up the string suggested that if I didn’t like America, I should get out.
But since I like America, I’m staying. And yes, I’ll continue to attend Hawks games.
Keep in mind, I’m embarrassed of all of you and for the great city of Chicago. It’s unfortunate so-called Hawks fans can’t step back and see the errors of their ways. It’s clearly a debate that can’t be answered here, but good luck to the irreverent fans and their self-humiliating behavior.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
No, but...........
……….conceptually it’s an interesting idea.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
If I happen to see a game next to you
I’ll make sure to cheer louder. I might even elbow you to tell you to show some respect and cheer for the damn flag!
You'll be able to find me.
I’ll be the one who is actually respecting the flag, the anthem and our country.
I’m not so easy to pick out at most other sporting events, especially high school football games, but at the Hawks game you’ll likely notice me since I’ll have my eyes on Old Glory.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
"so-called Hawks fans"?
What has cheering during the National Anthem have to do with whether we’re Hawks fans or not?
If our cheering during the damn song embarrases you, I’d hate to see what some of the really wrong shit in this country does to you.
HOCKEENIGHT.COM...home of FRIDAY NIGHT FIGHTS and LEAVE IT TO BETTMAN...now with PODCASTING!!!
You're right.
Better stated, so-called Americans.
My bad.
It could be argued that this disrespectful behavior of Hawks fans is at the root of our country’s problems. Once respect is lost for America, is it any wonder there’s no respect for others?
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
As previously stated...
It’s our right, thanks to the First Amendment.
Or do you have a problem with the Constitution?
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Ahem...........
…………I referenced the First Amendment early on in this post.
It does grant people freedom, allowing folks to be rude, ignorant and disrespectful if they so choose.
What I can’t understand is why would people want to behave that way?
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
Ahem...
…because we love our country and are showing our affection openly.
HOCKEENIGHT.COM...home of FRIDAY NIGHT FIGHTS and LEAVE IT TO BETTMAN...now with PODCASTING!!!
So why don't you behave that way at ALL sporting events during the SSB?
Why don’t others in our great nation show this tremendous outpouring of emotion and celebration when Old Glory rides up the pole? Is the rest of America filled with God-hating, atheistic Communists, leaving only those most fond of our country to attend Hawks games?
I suspect it’s more likely that all of these other folks demonstrate a sense of class, dignity and respect, qualities rarely witnessed during opening ceremonies at the UC.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
I'm unclear.
Do you have a fetish for this guy you keep posting or is he a Hawks fan that embodies all of your feelings? Or both?
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
Well, yes, but...........
………that doesn’t answer my questions.
I guess there are other options than those I suggested, but why do you keep posting his picture?
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
http://www.secondcityhockey.com/2009/3/13/796122/discussion-on-guidelines#13140723
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Groundhog Day?
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
Your views are unfortunate and improper.
You humiliate our country by cheering for our national anthem. Assimilate to my way of thinking — the correct way of thinking — or continue to embarrass yourself. How can you not see the errors in your behavior?
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So this guy agrees with me too?
He must not be a TRUE Hawks fan.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
Well, I'm done feeding the trolls for the night.
As an aside, please tell me that some of you out there understand satire…
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Here's an idea...
Show some terrorists a video of 20,000 Hawks fans screaming for the National Anthem, so they can see exactly who they’re fucking with.
HOCKEENIGHT.COM...home of FRIDAY NIGHT FIGHTS and LEAVE IT TO BETTMAN...now with PODCASTING!!!
I'd rather show them...............
………….just 2000 Marines in battle gear.
Marines, by the way, that would be saluting the flag no matter the occasion.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
Because...
…they are required to by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Wouldn’t you rather see a voluntary display?
HOCKEENIGHT.COM...home of FRIDAY NIGHT FIGHTS and LEAVE IT TO BETTMAN...now with PODCASTING!!!
The voluntary display?
You mean like those folks at so many other non-Hawk sports events, those people with hands over hearts respecting our country and not deliriously screaming and acting like fools?
Now you’re getting the picture.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
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