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Defending 51 Phantom

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I'm not sure why I feel the need to do this, other than both McClure and I were puzzled at the amount of vitriol spewed at what has probably been our most consistent performer throughout the playoffs.  Yes, Campbell didn't have a very good game yesterday, neither did about 15 others.  The blame does not go to him for the shorty, however.  Campbell hit the blue line with speed, chipped it past the d, and was the most likely to go and retrieve it, which he did.  it's up to one of the forwards to cover his point, none of them did. 

But let's get to the bigger issue here.  Chicago is such a strange town.  Fans bitch when the teams don't go out and splash cash, and then hate the players they do bring in (look at Milton Bradley right now).  Remember what the Hawks needed this past summer:  A proven, offensive defenseman who could run the power play, because there weren't any coming through the system.  So let's look at the Top-10 scoring d-men in the league and their salaries.

1.  Mike Green- $6 mil salary, 5.25 cap hit.  Also developed by this team, who could sign to an extension before he hit it big.

2.  Andrei Markov-5.75 million

3.  Nicklas Lidstrom-7.4 million

4.  Scott Niedermayer- 6.75 million

5.  Brian Rafalski-6 million

6.  Dan Boyle- 6.67 million

7.  Mark Streit- 4.1 million

8.  Shea Weber- 4.5 million

9.  Sheldon Souray- 6.25 millino salary, 5.4 cap hit.

10.  Brian Campbell- 7 million

So on this list, there's only two defensemen who are just as good in their own zone, in Lidstrom and Niedermayer (Rafalski's ok, it helps that the greatest D-man of all time is backing him up).  Green, Markov, Boyle, and Souray are just as clueless in their own zone as Phantom can be, and Streit was until this season.  Weber's and Green's salary are held down as they've never hit the open market. 

So if you want to argue that Campbell's overpaid, fine, by this list he would be, but by a mere 1-1.5 million dollars.  If you want to make the argument that the Hawks should have opted for Streit, okay, but prove to me you were saying that last June and July, when I only heard brief murmurings of that.  It is a simple fact that the going rate for an established, attacking blueliner is north of 6 million. 

Campbell is what he is, high-risk, high-reward, and he's going to be infuriating at times.  But he helps this team win more often than not, and next season when he's used to the pressure of the contract, I think you're all going to be very impressed.

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Comments

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I've been pretty vocal about my dislike of Campbell lately...

…and today even started a “Brian Campbell Farewell Committee” group on Facebook, so I feel I should weigh in on why. It’s not really just the huge contract. Sure, it doesn’t help that a salary of that magnitude weighs heavily on the cap, and that keeping him around puts other key player salaries in jeopardy, but it’s not the core issue. I guess you could attribute Campbell hate to a Chicago phenomenon of “fans bitch when the teams don’t go out and splash cash, and then hate the players they do bring in,” but it’s misguided in this instance, in my opinion.

Campbell is a talented hockey player. He is an amazingly technical skater that can keep up with the fastest offensive players in the league. And he can shoot, throw an unreal hit now and then (Umberger, say no more) and is fairly good at quarterbacking the power play. You know who else does all of that just as well? Duncan Keith. And he has for years here in Chicago, with a pittance of a salary in comparison. The difference, however, is that Keith will NEVER use that speed in a risky way, will NEVER get caught out of position, and will NEVER be a fourth attacker unless there is guaranteed defensive coverage on the line. Sure, we all know how great Dunc is around these parts, but it really highlights my core issue with Campbell: responsibility.

You can argue (like above) that goals that get scored while Campbell is in deep are the fault of the forwards covering for him, but that’s misguided logic. Campbell is the defenseman and it is his role to play that position at capacity. You’re going to have a need for the occasional attack from a D-man, and sure, the forward is going to have to cover in those instances. Coverage from a forward, however, is going to be spotty at best and you really can’t fault guys like Sharp or (for Christ’s sake) Kane for not holding the fort against an offensive powerhouse like Detroit. We’re CONSISTENTLY seeing that problem from “Phantom,” and that is the core issue.

It just seems like he treats defense as his secondary role, and that’s the last thing this team needs.

by rsievert on May 25, 2009 9:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

There it is

the biggest myth perpetrated by Hawk fans in the playoffs: Duncan Keith never makes a mistake.

I like Duncan Keith, but there are far too many fans that watch him with blinders on. The guy has had a mostly mediocre playoff run littered with plenty of mental and physical mistakes which were covered up by his goaltender or defensive partner.

I really don’t see how you can say Keith has been a guy doing the same thing for years around here. He was atrocious his first couple years and only started to blossom last year.

Brian Campbell has a proven track record of improving mediocre power plays. Keith can make no such statement.

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on May 25, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very well said...

Keith is awesome.. we all love him. But he makes mistakes and like John or Bob (I’m not sure which one you are) said… Keith has had a terrible playoff season so far… Campbell has had a pretty stellar one except for this and Game 2. OK maybe this whole series actually but the first two rounds would have been much different without him

by Matthew Dirt on May 25, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't intend to make this Keith vs. Campbell

I suppose I shouldn’t have focused so much attention in that post on Keith. I brought him up mainly as an example of someone who, in my opinion, plays the role of speedy defenseman the way it ought to be played. He hasn’t been flawless by any means in the post-season (nor did I insinuate such in my original post), but he certainly doesn’t get caught deep in the zone while Kane stands at the blue line like a bantam waiting for instructions from his dad.

I just don’t care for Campbell’s style of play, and the risks he takes to get in the action offensively. The front office’s decision to keep him around? Sure. Do I agree with it? Hell fucking no.

by rsievert on May 25, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

PP QB

The absolute reason Campbell is here is as follows:

Chicago Blackhawks Power Play Percentage:

2007-2008 15.9%, ranked 24th in the league

2008-2009 19.3%, tied for 11th in the league

The reason the Hawks missed the playoffs last year was their dreadful power play. If they would have moved up one or two spots last season they would have snuck in the back door. This year, they kicked the door in. Campbell can take as many chances as he wants.

If we had Mike Greene on the team, would you hate him too? I would love for Campbell to be a little more responsible in his own end, but by that standard, we lose what we signed him for in the first place (and what helped us get to the big dance).

If you want to hate an overpaid player, hate on Huet.

by AirTrafficAJ on May 25, 2009 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mike Green

That guy is so overrated it’s not even funny. He makes Campbell look like Lidstrom in his own zone, in comparison.

by gmh on May 26, 2009 3:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Goals

are goals. It’s hard to think that those numbers are lying.

by AirTrafficAJ on May 26, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you want to hate an overpaid player, hate on Huet.

Trust me, I do. I hate on The French Five Hole enough for two of us.

by runningquicklynowhere on May 26, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just gotta say...

We won’t learn the extent of Keith’s injury until after the season. His playoff has not been great, but he’s still friggin’ +1. Like a great cornerback, his mistakes are visible to the most ignorant fans. And like a great cornerback, his value is most apparent to ignorant fans only by his absence.

Keith creates plays from the defensive end, rather than just winging the puck around the boards (and avoiding hits), so his mistakes are even more glaring.

During the year, nine times out of ten the puck left Keith’s stick with the Hawks in a better position than when it came to him. Very simple. This is how you lead NHL defensemen with a +33. He hasn’t been quite himself in the playoffs, but he’d still leave a big hole.

Campbell has gone at least halfway to earning his money in the playoffs.

by cliffkoroll on May 26, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

$7 Million dollar man....listen and listen good

Here is your chance to redeem yourself and proved you are worthy of your salary and reputation. Go out and play your ass off Wednesday night! Prove your critics wrong. While I know that you can’t do it all by yourself, at least eliminate the bonehead, high school bender plays that infuriate your teammates, your coach and most of all the fans. Here’s a game plan, lets win 1-0. Go out every shift and concentrate on not giving up a single goal. Let the offense take care of itself. At this point I would be happy with a game with you being at 0 (zero) as a plus/minus rating. You can at least hang your hat on that this summer.

If this game plan isn’t to your liking, let Johnson or Sopel play in your place tomorrow night.

by Da Juice on May 26, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fret not.

The Huet money is going to take center stage this off season when Khabibulin gets paid elsewhere.

I like boobs.

by G.S. Clam on May 25, 2009 9:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Khabby

Is not going to get money elsewhere unless he finds a sucker. His groin is all but shot, and if rumors are true he now has a back injury to match. That gives him 3 or 4 stretches this season out injured with injuries that can easily be attributed to his age in a season when he has started the least number of games in his career. As much as I wish it wasn’t true and the Hawks could get the same Khabby for next year on the cheap that they had this year, I am afraid it only goes down from here for Khabby and I wouldn’t be surprised to seem him join Fedorov in the KHL.

by runningquicklynowhere on May 26, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could see

NIk being a very good part-time goalie next year for someone with a young goaltender…ie Washington though they won’t have the cap room, in the manner of how the Bruins used Manny Fernandez this year…but yeah I wouldn’t be surprised to see him back home cashing checks next year.

by Crease Monkey on May 26, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

but I think his time as the workhorse has passed, and he always has had a thing for money (who doesn’t). I doubt anyone is paying him big money to be a mentor though, but Washington with that Russian kid might be a fit considering what they claim Fedorov did for Ovechkin there mentor wise. If he is willing to take a big pay cut, like half, I could see the Hawks brining him back for one more year, but I doubt Khabby would even consider that.

by runningquicklynowhere on May 26, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I expect Khabby and Ovechkin to be teammates

outside of Russia next year. The Caps need to replace Jose Three-or-more, and Varlamov might still be too young to compete full time.

by russellguldin on May 27, 2009 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Campbell and Huet...

…contracts will probably cost Tallon his job.

In today’s NHL, it’s as much about managing your assets as it is scouting/drafting. Tallon has shown his strength is not in the former.

I’m guessing Tallon will get a shorter leash in the final year of his contract, and could very well be replaced by the young Bowman at the end of next year.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on May 25, 2009 9:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

So Tallon is going to lose his job for spending money the way both of his bosses told him to? McDonough is too caught up in appearances to do something like that. It sends a bad message to any future GMs too that they should be afraid to sign free agents on the chance that they don’t work out. I’m not putting money on it by any stretch, but I certainly feel anybody thinking Tallon will be fired for Huet and Campbell are way off base.

by hawksfan21 on May 25, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

McDonough will not hesitate...

…to make a move here and they showed it once already in regards to Savard. The “Tallon will be fine” quotes coming from both McDonough and Wirtz are not exactly flaming endorcements for the guy.

Regardless of whether they approved the expenditures, the GM is who ownership relies on to pick the right players (otherwise they wouldn’t be needed). This is going to be a lot like the Savard deal and McDonough and Wirtz will get Scotty Bowman’s opinion and run with it.

I’m not saying Tallon will go this offseason. He will get one more season, but if Huet and Campbell don’t perform to their salary committments, Tallon will be gone.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on May 25, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the writing is on the wall for Tallon

he’s got 1 year left on his deal and then it looks like little Bowman (Stan) will be taking over

"Oh, that's easy. White Sox. I'm not one of these fair-weather fans. You go to Wrigley Field, you have a beer; beautiful people up there. People aren't watching the game. It's not serious. White Sox, that's baseball. South Side." -O'Bama

by Hawk is God on May 26, 2009 6:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tallon is god when the Hawks win, a buffoon when they lose. Everyone needs to take a step back and look at the big picture.

by Geoffhawk on May 26, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know

look at all the other teams and their rosy cap situations.

Good teams have no room. Bad teams have room but no money to spend. Welcome to the NHL.

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on May 25, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What if

Campbell wasn’t here this year? Despite his liabilities, there were times Campbell did help make things a bit more exciting and he has had a decent run this post season. Watching him early in the year was a breath of fresh air compared to years of watching a transition challenged Hawks team. He’s a weird hybrid to me, a guy that can skate really well, can carry the puck, but who can’t seem to decide whether he wans to excel at defense of offense. He can deliver the occasional big hit, but he can just as easily get tossed around like a rag doll when other teams decide that’s what they want to do. For this year and maybe this year only, I thought he brought something needed to the table. Given his salary though, I think it’s worth asking if the Hawks learned enough this year to get by without his high risk/ potentially high payoff playing.

 It’s not easy to get where the Hawks are right now and I don’t think it’s a lock they run right back to this point and possibly challenge for the cup next year. I feel confident the Hawks will be in that position sometime soon, but when they do, I have a feeling Campbell will not be a part of it.

by NKLHD on May 25, 2009 10:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

So why do so many people have the idea that the Hawks will be getting rid of their big contracts after one year? Between your claim that “Campbell will not be a part of it” (which I’m assuming you mean he is not going to be on the team anymore) and Comcast Sports Net’s claim yesterday that if Huet is not The Guy in net they should buy him out, you’re completely ignoring the reason that the Huet and Campbell signings were done- to create a buzz about Chicago that would make free agents want to play for the Hawks. How can we do that if the message we send is “you have a year to win us the cup, and if you don’t, we’ll get rid of you?”

by hawksfan21 on May 25, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the way I worded that gave the wrong impression. I agree with you about the buzz part of it and I definitely enjoyed watching what he could do and I did acknowledge that. My bigger thought I guess is that any year is a unique situation and even more so for a young team like the Hawks. Campbell contributed to them being where they are right now, I have no doubt about that. Will he have the same value next year when this team starts again and brings it’s experience from this year?

Like I said in the last couple of sentences, I don’t have any sort of conviction that the Hawks are going to automatically run right back to this point next year and threaten for the cup. We had some pretty wild swings in play this year, especially right at the end and were probably lucky that we didn’t draw the Canucks in the first round. I think it’s more likely we are in the cup two years from now, and by then I have a feeling Campbell won’t still be here unless something changes in the way he plays.

I tend to think free agents want money first and Stanley Cup opportunity second. If the Hawks demonstrate they are serious about a cup, which I think they already have, the free agents will come.

by NKLHD on May 26, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buzz?

How can it greate a buzz for free agents when theres no money to pay them?

by idiot man on Jun 15, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Barry Rozner told me

that Campbell had an awful year and that he sucks, so I know it’s true.

Is everyone writing off Huet because of Sunday? Because that’s fucking stupid. The guy sat on his ass for a month and then got tossed into the fire against the best team in the league. Yeah, I guess he had an entire day of practice as the starter, so that should certainly have prepared him to play full fucking speed against the Red Wings.

I wasn’t a fan of the Huet signing, but it’s ridiculous to start talking about buying him out (especially under the current cap rules) after a single year, especially with nobody better in Rockford.

HOCKEENIGHT.COM

by CT II on May 25, 2009 11:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

They will sink or swim...

…with Huet between the pipes next season, and they really have no choice.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on May 25, 2009 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if its short term memory or what,

but wasn’t this the same topic of conversation at the end of last season with Khabi? Huet’s been here one year, and while I’ll be the first to admit the this year was not what we would have liked to see from him, you can’t just write him off because of it. And I’m also not saying it was the right thing to do by signing him, especially because of all the hype Crawford was getting, and we signed Niemi, but now that we have him, we cant just buy him out because he didn’t have the year we expected him to have. I think once Khabi is gone and Huet gets into the routine of being the everyday goalie, we will see much better days from him.

by jeff021690 on May 26, 2009 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would expect Huet to have a good, solid year next year. He reminds me an awful lot of Jeff Hackett; the guy was a poor backup, but a good starter. They also both look really small in the net, but butterfly goalies tend to do that. Huet is most definitely not to blame for Sunday; like peanut butter, we should spread it around. But I am not as nervous about the future with Huet now as I was at the beginning of the season. My buddy’s dad, a huge Habs fan, says that Huet needs to get 5-7 starts in a row to get up to speed. I am looking forward to that.

by russellguldin on May 26, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huet may need consecutive starts to get up to speed

but much like I have been saying all year he also needs to work on his fundamentals. Even the idiot anouncers on Sunday knew Huet was going to go down to his knees early on every chance. The guy commits early, he doesn’t guard the five hole at all, he is terrible handling the puck, and its an adventure anytime he leaves the crease. This has been all year, and not just on Sunday, so whoever thinks he is getting written off after one game missed his performance for most of the season. Even when he was winning he was getting bailed out by his defense ALOT. And this has been consistent across his carreer before he came here.

by runningquicklynowhere on May 26, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That said

we are also stuck with him. Anyone who thinks we are buying him out, trading him, or otherwise getting rid of him is out of their mind. All we can do is hope that someone works with him in the offseason and he adjusts some of what he does poorly for next season; cause if he doesn’t we will be seeing alot of Crawford or Niemi come next December.

by runningquicklynowhere on May 26, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We do have one of the better goalie coaches in the league with Waite. He stresses positioning and shot recovery, which you can see in Khabby’s play over the last three years. I don’t think Huet will steal as many wins as Khabby can, but I do expect him to win a fair share based on his play.
I think a more serious concern has been Keith and Biscuit’s dropoff lately. Biscuit not taking the body, Dunc not wheeling back to cancel out the rush; all this talk about Campbell not living up to unrealistic expectations should stop until Dunc and Seabs bring back the game that helped us stay in fourth all year long.

by russellguldin on May 27, 2009 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I can't stand these Campbell-haters either.

Those who think Campbell sucks are complete meatheads with no hockey knowledge whatsoever. “Oh no, Campbell was on the ice for 4 goals yesterday he sucks!” Well, with that logic I guess Seabrook sucks, too, because he’s on the ice for I would guess close to at least half of the opponents’ goals this postseason. I mean, not that it’s attributable to the fact that he’s on the ice for half the game or anything, right?

He does not suck. He may be overpaid a bit, but yet again, as everyone keeps forgetting, he was not brought in with the expectation that he would magically morph into Duncan Keith in the defensive end and then magically morph back on the other side of the blue line. He was brought in to spark our power play, which he did, and he also happened to step up this postseason while the immaculate Duncan Keith and the usually productive Cam Barker decided to shit the bed. Not that I don’t like those guys, but come on, give credit where credit is due. You whiners should be constantly berating Kane for disappearing this series and be screaming to the high heavens about how Kane doesn’t deserve a big contract because he isn’t scoring a point or two a game.

Who knows, maybe it’s the blue-collar-Chicago-fan thing to bitch about the guy making the most money even though others had worse games than Campbell (and have completely disappeared throughout the playoffs). No one would ever question Eager or Byfuglin, right? Because, man those guys put their hard-hats on every day! To quote my favorite line from Jaws: “I don’t need this working class hero crap.” Just my $0.02.

by illinikc33 on May 25, 2009 11:43 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

In my opinion

It’s not the fact that Campbell doesn’t produce on the powerplay, it’s the fact that that is all he does. You don’t pay a guy to be a top defenseman on your team to be so one-dimensional. For me, I’m not asking Campbell to be Duncan Keith in our own end, but at least make an effort to be. The turnovers, the fancy skating, and the bad decisions coming into the offensive zone is not what Hawks fans expected when we signed him. Soupy is a great talent, however, his decision making abilities and mistakes need to be solved because they have been unacceptable for anyone who goes out on the ice, no matter how much they are getting paid.

I am not saying that he sucks, I am just hoping he can stop trying to make the incredible plays and take what is given to him. Make the easy pass, take the space, put the puck on net, dump the puck instead of turning it over, there are a lot of small things that can be done to make Campbell’s game sharper.

by cubs22 on May 26, 2009 1:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

with most of that in terms of the rational to a general Chicago fan. Personally I’m still on the fence about him…because I think the Hawks can get by just fine with Keith and Hjammer running the PP…but to the general fan I think it’s not that Campbell sucks, it’s just that he’s the one-dimensional Juan Pierre of the team and when you couple that with his contract that equals EPIC FAIL to many fans…and to Ned Coletti. Like Juan Pierre, he’s a $3m player earning more than twice that in a salary cap sport.. I know half those other D-men on the list can also be defensive liabilities but at least some of those guys are also willing to clog up passing lanes and block shots, hitters, fighters(at least in Souray’s case), and not afraid to take a hit to avoid turning the puck over…Campbell is none of those things, he’s a fast skater and about half of the time a good passer….if he posted more goals like the others on that list I think he’d be more tolerable to the general fan.

by Crease Monkey on May 26, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry,

but I can’t see Hjalmersson running the power play. He lacks the offensive confidence to make a difference. Barker maybe, but not MC Hjammer. Also notice how much better Duncan Keith’s numbers (offensive) have gotten since Soupy showed up. Offense like Campbell’s is contagious.

by AirTrafficAJ on May 26, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

“The turnovers, the fancy skating, and the bad decisions coming into the offensive zone is not what Hawks fans expected when we signed him”

This just goes to show how uninformed the Campbell-hating Hawks fans were. This is what you should have been expecting from a high-risk/high-reward guy. As many defensive mistakes the guy has made, he has made up for on the offensive end. He is an offensive catalyst and that is exactly what he was brought here to do. If you were expecting a shutdown guy, then you were sadly misguided. I think his personal numbers, and the position the team is in currently, justifies the deal.

by Geoffhawk on May 26, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What part of that quote do you see me referring to Campbell as a shutdown D-man? His bad decisions coming into the offensive zone is what I had said. Carrying the puck into our offensive zone and turning it over consistently for odd-man rushes the other way is what I was referring to. If Campbell is going to free wheel into the zone he damn well better not turn the puck over when our back checkers are exposed. Just because Campbell is an offensive catalyst does not give him the excuse to turnover the puck because he is trying to make too much out of the play.

Also, just for reference, no where in my comment do I say that Campbell sucks, as a matter of fact I call him a great talent. So before you go calling me an “uninformed Campbell-hating Hawks fan” who is “expecting a shutdown guy”, maybe you should read my post all the way through and get what I am trying to say. I know what Campbell was brought here to do. I am simply saying that he needs to sharpen up his game to avoid the stupid mistakes he has made all year. There is no reason why he can’t fix what he has been doing wrong.

by cubs22 on May 26, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

whoa. If I offended you, I apologize. Perhaps I was being a little harsh towards a fellow Hawks fan. I guess my point was that these things you pointed out were what Hawks fans should have been expecting, in addition to high point totals, quarterbacking a successful powerplay, etc, but you are going to get a decent amount of turnovers and poor defensive decisions (in all 3 zones) from a defenseman who is thinking offense first (which is what he was brought here for). So again, I point you toward his point totals and the team powerplay improvement. He’s doing just what we should have expected, which was my point.

One other sidebar to the odd-man rushes, and somebody may have pointed this out already. This team has played and practiced with Campbell this entire season. They know what he is going to do. I’m a little disappointed in the forwards not covering the point (see the shorty on Sunday) with enough consistency when Campbell, or any D for that matter, carries the puck in deep. That is what Campbell is instructed to do. Now, he’s not totally free from blame since he has made turnovers down low, but even a turnover down low on a powerplay should not lead to an odd man break if the rest of the team is in proper position.

by Geoffhawk on May 27, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

point

the point I was pointing out was the point totals by the point man from the point. sorry, the above post was a little obnoxious.

by Geoffhawk on May 27, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

point taken

sorry if I over-reacted, maybe I was missing the point, but thank you for pointing out the point that I was missing when you pointed your argument to the amount points that Campbell scores. Sometimes from the point.

by cubs22 on May 27, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He makes to many bad decisions to be paid what he is getting. There is a reason San Jose didn’t sign him after last years horrible playoff performance. Simply true and the power play doesn’t make up for the rest of the time the guy is a liability on the ice. Turn him into a wing, he can’t play D.

by SLAZZ on May 26, 2009 2:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, there was a reason San Jose didn't sign him...

…because he was a free agent and the Hawks signed him to a big deal on the first day of free agency. If the Hawks hadn’t offered him that contract, someone else would have. It’s the price that they needed to pay to actually nab a top free agent (and don’t kid yourself, that is exactly what he was).

by Geoffhawk on May 26, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trying for something a little more lighthearted...

Reasons I Enjoy Brian Campbell, Not Exclusively As a Hockey Player:

1. The magnificent clash of his hair with the red sweater. It borders on psychadelic in HD!
2. Every time he makes a big hit, he has a totally bewildered expression on his face. “Oh man, I was just skating around randomly and this dude ran right into me and fell down really hard!”
3. Did anyone else watch his mic’d up video on the official site? Not only does he LOOK like Napoleon Dynamite, he also SOUNDS like Napoleon Dynamite. “Sharpie! Puck! SHARPIE!!”
4. The perpetual hilarity of the marketing department still trying to convince the city of Chicago that Campbell is the fastest defenseman on the team, when everyone knows it was a retarded timekeeping error that robbed Duncan Keith of that title at the 08 ASG.
5. … At least you could make up a drinking game for him? One (1) shot every time he has to circle back into his own zone because no one is open to receive a pass. One (1) shot every time he fakes a shot on the PP — only valid if accompanied by a chorus of “SHOOOOOOOT.” And so on.

by gmh on May 26, 2009 3:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I like it!!!!

A drinking game that lets me get blasted before the first period ends. Although I think we should finish the job and say that you have to do the following. One (1) shot every time the puck is not dumped into the offencive zone.

SHOOOOOOOT IT!!!! Anon

by burpchelischili on May 26, 2009 6:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

North Mississippi All-Stars! 51 Phantom! Campbell does not suck...

he just had a bad year. The playoff run was a huge improvement on the regular season. Maybe he needs to change his first name to “Bruce” and start lighting it up with his “boomstick”. Sam you are blowing my mind with the music selections (Mastodon and Tool have been on replay on the iPOD) and now you post a pic of NMA’s 51 Phantom. Probably not everyone’s favorite album (that’s what itunes calls them) but if you like the heavier rock side of NMA you have got to check out “Hernando”. Soups is slightly overpaid, but it seems like he has a nice family and he can support them a little better and they can reassure him that he will have a better year next year. And now that it is so late in the playoff’s I guess I can state the fact that Duncan Keith has been skating on one foot for the whole playoff run. Has anyone else noticed this?

Victim was found murdered by a Chelsea Dagger.

by pucknut on May 26, 2009 7:59 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

There is no defending him

I agree that Campbelll is a gifted athlete but the fact of the matter is he is a “stupid” hockey player. Miles behind Lidstrom, Niedermayer and a host of others. He is a fricking defensemen! Play like one! I agree with moving his sorry ass up to forward. He is responsible for the shorty in my opinion. He made a good play dumping it in, chasing it down and then had his usual brain fart and try to pass if to a forward and whipped it past him to allow the 2 on 1. Nice step up right after our goal to allow Hossa to walk right in. He was a liability in Buffalo and San Jose. There were no tears shed when he left those two organIzations. There will be none when he leaves here as well.

For those who claim he is valuable on the powerplay, lets keep in on the PP but limit his ice time to when we are 5-5. Dress 7 D and lets see what Johnson or Sopel bring to the table. My guess is it will be some defense. I don’t see Lidstrom, Stuart, Erikson, Kronwall, Raflaski and Lebda spinning around of control. The last tape to tape pass that Campbell made was right to Cleary. His deficiencies do not outweigh his contributions at least not in playoff hockey where every shift counts. Oh yeah did I mention he is a box of rocks upstairs?

by Da Juice on May 26, 2009 8:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The Elephant in The Room

“Yeah, Campbell is overpaid, but…”

But, what? The simply act of admitting he’s overpaid serves to prove that he’s not doing enough. What does Campbell need to bring in order to be worth his cap hit? If he’s going to be getting between Scott Niedermayer and Nicklas Lidstrom money then shouldn’t he be performing like somebody with both offensive and defensive abilities? Also, it would probably be nice if he weren’t 10th in the league in scoring this season.

by J.J. from Kansas on May 26, 2009 8:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

These are the criticisms that annoy the piss out of me.

Just because he got a bump in pay does not magically correlate to increased production, especially from a guy who’s been in the league for a few years already.

So let’s go over a few things.

- Number one (and I know you didn’t say this but I’ve seen way too many others make this mistake), he is not a goal scorer. He creates offense, but he does not score the goals. He had one year in Buffalo where he scored 12 goals. His next highest season in goals scored? This year with the Hawks, where he scored 7. It’s never been his game. It wasn’t expected to be his game here by anyone except clueless fans.

- He had his career high in points last year with 62. His next best year? This year, with the Hawks, with 52.

- Nearly half his points were even strength, half on the PP, consistent with his numbers the past 4 years as he’s seen significant time on the PP.

- His +/- of 5 is his third highest rating. Last year he was a 1 until being traded to the Sharks, where he boosted it to a + 8 in the 20 games he played with them. He had one year of great +/ ratings, otherwise this year is right in line with what he’s done all year.

Bottom line is this, Campbell did exactly what was expected of him, and why he was paid what he was, this season. He had a brutal 2 or 3 week stretch in March, but otherwise has been adequate defensively and our best transition player offensively. In the playoffs this year, he’s become one of our better defensive defensemen as well, with the exception of last game.

If you guys expected anything different than what you got, its your fault for not knowing what kind of player he was. But he did his job this year.

Got more soul than a sock with a hole.

by chrome on May 26, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that seems to be happening a lot… weird

by Matthew Dirt on May 26, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just figured out why

anytime you use two hyphens, everything in between will be crossed out. Which makes discussing plus minus kind of difficult.

what kind of shit website you running, mang?

Got more soul than a sock with a hole.

by chrome on May 26, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

we know fuck all about the tech side of this website…

good to know about the strike through though…

by Matthew Dirt on May 26, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then the problem isn't with Campbell.

It’s with the front office. I’m not saying that Campbell’s numbers were disappointing. For what he’s put up in his career, they’re very good. The problem is that he gets $7M a year for what he’s doing.

Campbell did do exactly what he was brought into Chicago to do. I can’t deny that nor will I try. My argument is that he was brought in at $7M a year, a number that even the author of this post admits is high. The question remains. If he’s going to be worth $7M, what more does he need to be able to do? I say he’s not worth $7M because his defensive game isn’t good enough nor is his leadership. If you can’t fault Campbell for the fact that he’s overpaid, then you have to fault the guy who paid him.

I was originally of the mindset that bringing him in was a good show of faith to Chicago fans. It showed the faithful that management was willing to pay the big bucks for some big names to get a winning team on the ice. Furthermore, it showed the players of the league that Chicago was going to be a city they had to consider when shopping around in free agency. However, I now believe I was wrong in thinking that. I don’t believe a team can make the mistake of overspending on journeyman free agents like this. With some of the real core of players on this team starting to come up on the sign long-term or test the open waters for more cash crossroads, having their own team tying up significantly more assets than they should in a guy who did use the open waters for his own benefit can severely hurt the Blackhawk’s ability to continue fielding a deep team.

A slightly unrelated problem with Campbell as I see it more of a failure of Quenneville’s rather than Campbell’s. When he said he’d try the same pass 100 times after he made a mistake that cost his team a playoff game (oversimplified, I know), Quenneville should have snapped his ass back in line. Confidence is a good thing, but I think Campbell’s statement crossed that line into ego. You want to know why Detroit’s so successful? Despite having half a dozen guys on the ice more talented than Campbell, none of them believes or says they are above the system the team employs. There’s a reason he’s known as a me-first mercenary among the league. For all the good production he brings the team, this attitude of his is a potential poison to young minds like Kane and Toews.

by J.J. from Kansas on May 26, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's funny. I don't think journeyman is the proper term to bestow upon him.

He spent his entire career with one team, until he was traded at the deadline the year he became a FA, at which point he signed with a different team. If that makes him a journeyman, than just about anyone who’s changed teams is a journeyman, which is nearly everyone in today’s NHL.

I don’t really have a problem with Campbell’s contract. He’s overpaid, but not by much. The contract that we should be concerned about is Huet. Hopefully he steps it up next year when he becomes the clear #1 goalie. I wanted to destroy everything he holds sacred after that second goal on Sunday, but really, he was thrown to the wolves a bit.

Got more soul than a sock with a hole.

by chrome on May 26, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the definition of 'overpaid"

He’s not worth the money he’s being paid.

I perhaps used the wrong phrase in calling him a journeyman. Still, the idea that he used the open waters to get a contract bigger than he’s worth (there goes that word “overpaid” again) is valid. I don’t blame him for taking the contract, I blame the GM for offering it.

Huet isn’t the issue here. He was given one playoff game after sitting for a month and his team didn’t perform well in front of him. Chicken and egg arguments will go on forever about this one. The answers will come next season.

by J.J. from Kansas on May 26, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the issue is cap management, then Huet may be the issue.

Campbell is beneficial to this team. If I say he is slightly overpaid, and think his true worth to a team is closer to 6 million, then that one million dollars won’t be what kills us with the cap.

Got more soul than a sock with a hole.

by chrome on May 26, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look higher

Saying that Campbell’s $1M of wasted cap space is ok because Huet’s is a bigger problem isn’t doing much to mitigate the claim that I’m making about the front office being the real problem here by handing out dumb contracts.

by J.J. from Kansas on May 26, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would agree with that

except I don’t think slightly overpaying for a talented guy who has proven himself to be extremely beneficial to your team is a dumb contract.

Got more soul than a sock with a hole.

by chrome on May 26, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is not about hating on 51

No one doubts the talents 51 brings to the table. No one doubts that in some ways he has been beneficial to the team and its results for the year.

The issues are CAP MANAGEMENT and value for the money. How you manage your budget over the long term is what will determine the likelihood of an extended run as a contending team.

The way things are shaping up, next year will be much the same as last year minus one very important part – a true A goalie. That means we likely won’t go deep in the post season in 2009. As for 2010, we will have to re-sign all of the kids to keep them – this is the year that scares me.

by Return of the Roar on May 26, 2009 10:59 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What are you smoking?!?!?!

Huet is NOT an A goalie. And it is not as if youth is on his side to “develop”. We likely have signed him to his next to last contract in the NHL.

Montreal and Washington both found that out ahead of us. That’s why we are stuck with him now. Just look at the teams in the conference finals in any given year – they all have premier, proven, and otherwise talented goalies.

If we ever advance beyond the WCFs in the future it will be because we built a team like the 92 Penguins – all offense. ANd even then Borasso had enough talent to stand on his head when it was called for.

by Return of the Roar on May 26, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My comment had less to do with Huet...

…than Khabi. Not much of a difference there all year. Did Khabi carry us into playoffs? Past Calgary? Vancouver?

Nope, nope, and nope..

by cliffkoroll on May 26, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have to disagree with you

Khabi was solid when we needed him to be. There were many games where there were extended flurries in front of the Hawks’ net during this run where he stopped shot after shot after shot in critical times. Huet would NEVER have been able to survive one of those, let alone many of them.

Khabi was and hopefully still is a critical component of the Hawks’ success this year. His experience is very valuable.

For me, it will tough to imagine a team without him next year.

by Return of the Roar on May 26, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

…and flurries, like a 4:27 stretch during Game 3, when he let in a bunch in a row.

Khabi has the edge over Huey, but he was just good, not great, both during the year, and against Calgary and Vancouver. The ring on his finger provided hope that he could rise during the playoffs, but it didn’t really happen. To suggest he was the difference, or that the Hawks couldn’t have gotten where they are with Huey, well I’m not seein’ it.

The Hawks were the fourth highest scoring team in the league this year. Offhand, I can’t remember more than one or two games all year when goaltending was the key.

by cliffkoroll on May 26, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It should be easy

Remember the first two years of his contract, when he didn’t play a full season? Now imagine that with an oustanding offensive machine, a great powerplay quarterbacked by Soup, with a solid and fast defensive corp protecting an above average goalie.

by russellguldin on May 27, 2009 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's understandable

But then where does the vitriol towards his play come from? Save the boos for Uncle Dale in the off season. For those with selective memories, remember that Campbell took less to come here rather than Atlanta or NYR….and just be thankful it wasn’t Redden that the Hawks spent the money on.

by McClure on May 26, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For anyone who has claimed Brian Campbell is a one-dimensional player,

please feel free to explain to the rest of us why his Corsi and Behind the Net rating is one of the highest on the team. These are two statistics that measure strictly 5-on-5 play if you didn’t know. I anxiously await all your replies.

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on May 26, 2009 1:07 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

His Behind the Net rating is among the worst on the team. His team’s plus/minus is 0.44 worse when he’s on the ice.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/2008/basic_5_on_5.php?sort=6&mingp=&mintoi=&team=CHI

by J.J. from Kansas on May 26, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why don't you check his behind the net from the playoffs?

Until Sunday’s abortion, he was third on the team.

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on May 26, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

regardless

 you can’t give him a pass for the regular season when his rating was worse than Kane’s. Small sample size for a playoff run where the team D is generally ratcheted up anyway. Yes he’s stepped it up in the playoffs as you’d expect from a vet, but the original argument in this thread wasn’t just about the playoffs. I’d like to see his total turnovers for the season as well but I don’t know of any site that keeps tabs on them. Besides, like in baseball with zone ratings and range factors and such there are always flaws in rating individual player D. I hope Puck Pros evolves into the hockey version of BP and starts to calculate Win Shares and VORP and stats like those…I put more value into them than Corsi ratings.

by Crease Monkey on May 26, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup,

I’m sure that awful rating had nothing to do with his defensive partner for the majority of the year bringing nothing to the table. If there was a way to isolate his rating from when he was partnered with Johnson and Hjammer, I’m sure you’d see a vast difference. That’s all hear say though.

This isn’t about the original argument. It was directed to the people who claimed he is a one-dimensional player or compared him to Juan Pierre.

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on May 26, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

with that…he was partnered up with Walker or Barker for a good portion of the year…that’s why I said D ratings in hockey (and baseball) are flawed.

by Crease Monkey on May 26, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m absolutely willing to give him a pass for the regular season if he’s able to raise his game come playoff time the way he has this year. He’s clearly been one of the best Hawks this postseason even with the Game 2 turnover. And that play is your classic hero/goat sports situation.

My goal? World domination.

by stickhandler on May 26, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My apologies

I was looking at regular season stats.

by J.J. from Kansas on May 26, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are a lot of Good Arguments Pro/Con.... BUT....

Campbell has been a roller coaster all year long. And not a good one. He ended up a -3 on Sunday by bad luck. He should only have been a -2. Huet giving up that 30 footer with 20 seconds left was horrific. But the other minuses were well earned.

Campbell’s post season up to the conference has been decent. But he has been down right terrible this series. I would’ve benched his ass after the the fourth goal of the game where he got lost above the blueline while detroit transitioned into the zone leaving a flat footed Versteeg to try and contain Hossa who was skating with speed and the puck. The hawks were back in it a 1-3, BC eff’s up again and we’re down 1-4, 12 bleeping seconds after we scored.

Campbell sank Sunday’s game. You can point to everyone else taking a dump on the game, fine. But I watched that game behind the hawks net and he was easily the worst player on the ice Sunday, and I’m including Huet.

I’ll admit, I’m biased. I don’t like the way he plays. But let’s call a spade and spade. He was god awful Sunday, and the only way to defend his performance is to point to an awesome game 5 (assuming he has one).

Maize n Brew
Because Football is Better with Beer

by Maize n Brew Dave on May 26, 2009 2:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Everyone on the team who’s made mistakes and costs a lot sucks shit and should be bought out so we can re-tool and Tallon sucks shit who cares about the Sharp and Versteeg trades and drafting NHLers in late rounds and young teams suck shit because they make mistakes and who cares that we’re even having ALL OF

by ChicoMaki on May 26, 2009 2:44 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

… THIS DISCUSSION because we lost one fucking game very badly.

Jesus Christ.

by ChicoMaki on May 26, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You miss the point

We lost the MOST IMPORTANT game of the season – where winners stand up and earn their money and the losers go home. It does not matter how fast you skate, or what your Corsi’s or +/- are if you can’t get the puck out of your zone.

I can guarantee you that someone on the Detroit coaching staff saw that the weak D from 51 was ripe to be exploited, aside from the gaping five hole in the net. A deadly combo that we spend $12.7MM a year on.

by Return of the Roar on May 26, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Every game of the post season is the most important game of the season.

Are you saying game six against either Canadian team wasn’t the most important? Or game four against Detroit? In the playoffs, every game is the most important game of the season; your argument’s base is weak.

by russellguldin on May 27, 2009 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

rec'd

NOW STOP IT RIGHT HERE

by mjthor on May 26, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One series does not a player make

Sure Campbell has been bad against Detroit. If all of the rest of the Hawks had been sparkling, would we be trailing 3-1?

Campbell in the series is a -5 with 1 point, an assist. Looking a little more at the numbers, Patrick Kane is a -7 with 1 point, an assist in the series. Is there going to be a post saying we should get rid of Kane too? That since he was a #1 overall pick he should automatically be better? Face it, some players have good games, some have bad games. As much as it sucks to give the Wings credit, they deserve credit. They have been the better team, but we know they’re not unbeatable. This thing isn’t over yet. If this is the way we’re going to act about our team every time they face the slightest amount of adversity, maybe we deserved the Hawks of the early 2000’s.

by hawksfan21 on May 26, 2009 6:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What the fuck is going on? Relax!

And to think I was fucking negative? Campbell is one of the most prolific offensive defenceman in the entire NHL and proved that all season and his numbers matched pretty closely to those of his previous seasons. Did any really expect 30 goals from this guy? Did you watch Green in this year’s playoffs? Would you rather that guy? Campbell was the Hawks best defenceman in the 2nd round and it was no contest. He was spectacular in both zones and was a threat with the puck everytime he touched it but in this series it has been the complete opposite and on Sunday’s game was the most to blame for the loss but he wasn’t alone…not even close! He’ll turn it around come Wednesday and when the Hawks complete the unimaginable comeback and are crowned the Western Conference Champions come Monday the haters will return as lovers…You watch!!!
As for Huet, I have no problems with him being the starter come next season…but that’s a long ways away. The Hawks still potentially have another 10 games left in the season so why start this shit now? Yes Huet was dreadful on Sunday but so was about 18 others and to pin him as not a playoff goaltender based on that result would be very McGuire like (and I’m not talking Jerry). Huet is very good goaltender that I’m sure the Capitals would have loved to have had come playoff time this season, not the mention the Habs all season for Price definitely struggled with the pressures of being the starter especially in their 100th anniversary season. Let’s give Huet a chance to be the starter for he really wasn’t given that much of a chance this season.
In the end JHC will resign and Campbell and Huet will stay next season and don’t believe Bettman in his warnings of a salary-cap ceiling drop for it’s just gamesmanship on his part (and the owners) with the CBA to be renegotiated after the 2011 season. Everyone is staying put and for a long time and why not? How many changes should Tallon make to a Final 4 team if not the Stanley Cup Finals team?

by hawks61 on May 26, 2009 7:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

And

He’s a hall monitor.

wait what?

by pepe126 on May 27, 2009 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ginger's make me nervous

the freckles he must have after playing in San Jose… ‘shudder’

by russellguldin on May 27, 2009 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

easy now...

I have the power to ban people.. never forget that

by Matthew Dirt on May 27, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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