So where is the defense!?

by Return of the Roar on Jul 1, 2009 11:08 PM CDT Comment 17 comments

Lots of good news on the offensive side of the puck for the Hawks.

But we need deeper and better defense and goaltending to get to the next level. Great teams are built from the crease outward - not the other way around.

Playoff hockey exposes team weakness in a way the regular season never can. The Hawks lost the series to Detroit due to a lack of defensive depth. No goalie, no matter how talented or lucky, can carry a team so weak beyond Keith and Seabrook on defense - Khabi came as close as anyone could have and now he is gone. We cannot ask Keith and Seabs to play 20+ minutes every game all year and expect them to have gas in the tank for a Cup run.

So I ask, with the Five Hole as our number one goalie, backed up by two youngins with little NHL experience, where have we solved our core problem of thin defense? We haven't. Furthermore, the specter of huge long term contracts for a questionable number one goalie, and a questionable defensive defenseman in Campbell, makes good moves in this area even more difficult.

I would argue that we are actually worse off right now than we were before. No amount of backchecking by forwards will come close to compensating for the desperate need we have for grinding, skull splitting defensemen who can clear a puck out of the defensive zone, win battles on the boards, and keep a puck in the offensive zone.

Please, oh please, sign Beauchemin or Scuderi before they are gone as well. Our quest for a Stanley Cup will be the brightest before we have to worry about signing our young superstars, and not afterward. If we have to put our faith in Five Hole to clean up after our weak defense, 2009-2010 will be a long and heartbreaking season.

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Agreed

although I won’t hate on Huet as much, I think he deserves a chance to be #1.

If I can't be a good example, I'll just be a horrible warning

by Trixietrx on Jul 1, 2009 11:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Agree on Huet getting the chance as well

As for losing to the scum for lack of defensive depth, I’m not sure that’s entirely accurate. We had some very close games with them and aside from the meltdown game I though we were definitely competitive. Laziness with the puck and refusal to dump past the trap were as big as if not bigger issues than our defense to me. This is not to say we don’t need more depth at D, but we aren’t going to become Detroit like no matter who else we sign. I think we are going to pretty much live or die by offense next year.

by NKLHD on Jul 2, 2009 12:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm good with giving Huet a chance

That being said, I don’t think that I ever discounted how competitive we were with Detroit. The point of relevance here is why could we not get past “being competitive” and actually win the series.

You reference laziness and the refusal to dump and chase. I respond with my point to begin with – we lack enough depth of skill on defense. That translated not to laziness but the exhaustion of Keith and Seabs when it became apparent that they were the only ones on the D corps who could actually make that happen. Detroit just waited for them to be off the ice, or too tired from being on too long, and they exploited our lack of depth by pushing hard at us in our zone when 51 and company were given the role of defending our zone.

I don’t think I am making an argument to become Detroit. I am making the case that (1) absent a decent upgrade of our second and third D corps, we are screwed with an untested goalie and two rookies to back him up, and (2) the money we have tied up in 51 and Five Hole are going to come back and bite us.

by Return of the Roar on Jul 2, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough

I still see it a bit different. The top thing I have always admired/envied/hated about Detroit is that they skate it out for nearly the entire game night after night, month after month, etc. I didn’t see that from the Hawks against them, and for what it’s worth, I didn’t see it out of the Pens either until they got to home ice. In the periods where the Hawks were brining it every shift, I thought they were more than just competitive. And then there would be a gaff that Cleary or someone else would pick up and blow past Khabbi, seemingly with ease. Game three was awesome, but that was basically a one game performance that they didn’t match and they almost gave that one away by letting up for just five minutes. Believe me, I’m not arguing against the point we need some more depth at D. Having said that, I see a lot of room for improvement in intensity for a full game and willingness to get back when a breakaway happens or even pass up an opportunity once in awhile if it means preventing getting caught pinching.

by NKLHD on Jul 2, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought

Our defense was pretty solid last year, and has the same crew coming back minus Ralph Wiggum. He’s replaceable by Sopel (when healthy) or Jordan Hendry from Rockford. Our defense is young, but with all youth every season they mature and get better.

Huet is another story. Just depends on how he handles the load by himself.

by AirTrafficAJ on Jul 2, 2009 12:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

As for youth and maturity

I don’t know if the development of young defensemen will happen in time to make tough contract decisions for Keith, Toews and Kane. I am of the opinion that we win now or we get killed by the cap and the contracts we gave 51 and Five Hole.

by Return of the Roar on Jul 2, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Umm....???

part of our problem with D was our forwards not being responsible in their own end. That’s why we got Kopecky and (BOOM!) John Madden. Hossa is also a defensive upgrade to Havlat. You will notice the difference.

Windy City Hockey

by The Admiral on Jul 2, 2009 4:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed…I’d love to add Bouchemin but he’ll cost minimum $4M per year and while we can afford him for this year, the following years we will not unless Campbell or Huet are moved.

by Crease Monkey on Jul 2, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Defense players are fine

Key to the Hawks taking the next step is players like Patrick Kane becoming true two-way players. Hossa can be a great teacher in this regard.

$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.

by BLou on Jul 2, 2009 8:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I might not know what the fuck I'm talking about, but I don't really foresee Kane ever becoming a TRUE two-way player.

Yes, he could busy his ass and get back some more. Yes, he could annoy the fuck out of opposing forwards and D-men with crazy stickwork… but he’ll never be a two-way player like, say, Datsyuk. I really don’t think he even has the physical stature to have any defensive presence past some annoying poke checks.

NOW STOP IT RIGHT HERE

by mjthor on Jul 2, 2009 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even if

all he did was busy his ass up a BIT and do some stick work, that would be a big improvement.

by NKLHD on Jul 3, 2009 5:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wrong

It’s never been about physical stature. It about the WILL to be a competent back-checker. A lot of two-way players are undersized: Parise, Gionta, Cammalleri, and even Sidney Crosby is smallish at 6’0, 190-something. Also, don’t forget about a guy who played a two-way game, got physical, and was hard to muscle off the puck even at just 5’6, 180lbs. His name is Theo Fleury. Kane talked recently about what he does in the offseason. He sleeps a lot, plays video games, and just hangs out until the start of training camp. He needs to develop his strength. I know Washington D-man Mike Green (6’1, 200) needed to work on his toughness, so he started strength training with UFC guys. He took this upon himself. He didnt need a coach telling him. Kane needs to take the initiative.

Windy City Hockey

by The Admiral on Jul 3, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly right

Look, I like Patrick Kane as much as the next guy. But fact is he has been put on a ridiculous pedestal in this city for reasons that escape me. Kane needs a kick in the ass when it comes to commitment ot back-checking and doing the things that define as a true two-way player. Kane needs to get his ass in the weight room too.

$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.

by BLou on Jul 4, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok MJ, I'll agree that you might not know,

but I happen to agree with you. I don’t ~~think~~ know if Kane ever will be a Great two way player. However, I do think that he can become even better at not hanging the D-men out to dry 4 or 5 times a game. crazy stick work is fine… if you finish that stick work with a solid pass or a shot ON goal.

Well, unless you are in detroit, then you shoot the puck off of the rubber board behind the net.

SHOOOOOOOT IT!!!! Anon

by burpchelischili on Jul 3, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

To clarify: when I said he could "annoy the fuck out of opposing forwards and D-men with crazy stickwork" I meant via poke checks and the like.

Not the crazy offensive stickwork we’re used to from Hatrick.

NOW STOP IT RIGHT HERE

by mjthor on Jul 3, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where's the defense? Not where's Kane on defence...

…Getting sick and tired of this old ‘Kane doesn’t play defence well’ schtick. He doesn’t play defensive hockey that good right now! He’s 20 years of age people get a grip! He’s learning as it goes, and very quickly I might add and I wouldn’t be suprised that Q asks more of Kane on the defensive aspect of the game that will ultimately make him a more reliable player. The addition of Hossa will dramatically help in this area, for he definitely did help in Crosby become a more 2-way centre.
Kane is a very good player at such a phenominally young age and is getting better each season. He was better last season than he was during his rookie campain and will mature even more this season. Kane is not like Toews in that respect and it’s tough to suggest he should for Toews is like Forsberg in that they both came into the league as accomplished 2-way centreman as rookies, not many have ever been like that or will be like that.
I do agree with The Admiral in that Kaner needs to look at guys like Green (or Toews for that matter) and take his approach to the off-season more seriously and concentrate more on not only physical strength, but nutritionally as well. Eating and exercising well in the off-season will ultimately lead to better and longer stamina during the long rigorous grind that is the NHL season.
Didn’t know that Green trained with mixed-martial artists during the off-season, pretty cool but with whom?

It's never about the eventual destination, but rather the long journey and its challenging obstacles that are presented and what it takes to overcome them, that makes the taste of success all the more worthwhile!!!

by hawks61 on Jul 3, 2009 3:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I know he did some with a couple local guys in Western Canada (I think Calgary area?), and he goes to all the events in DC, and has met some of the more famous guys (Couture, Liddell, etc…).

Windy City Hockey

by The Admiral on Jul 3, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs