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Around SBN: Chan Sung Jung Wins Thriller Over Dustin Poirier

Ah, The Connection You'll Be Hearing Plenty Of...

Puck Daddy's lead story today, and you should check it out here.

The one line that got me was the Hawks taking over the Flyers problem of, "Yeah, but their goalie is....".  Ever since last season, and particularly since our exit in the Conference Finals, I have wondered and worried if the Hawks are the Western version of the Flyers.  We've all laughed for years and years, since the Legion of Doom days, about the Flyers inability to ever have anything other than a shortbus in flames between the pipes.  A competent goalie may very well have seen them lift a Cup during the Lindros era.  Well, could the Hawks be in the same predicament?

But the similarities between these two teams now are pretty frightening.  Two teams that came up from the bottom and burst onto the scene, one year apart.  The Flyers are loaded with a young forward corps every bit the equal of the Hawks (if you don't think Richards, Carter, Gagne, Hartnell and the since departed Lupul aren't up to snuff, watch more hockey), who rose up to the East finals two seasons ago before being dispatched by the Pens.  They then spent most of the first half of last season putting skates in asses, before shoddy goaltending landed them the worst possible first-round matchup against the Pens.  

Let me say, the Flyers do not have the Hawks blue line, though it's better than you think.  Let me also say I think Huet is better than Biron or Nithethagamhalghgfalhjdmbamaki.  Also, Mirtle has an interesting piece about how average Khabby was from february on last season, and how bad his free agent deal with Edmonton is.  I think Cris can easily match Khabby late-season performances, which got us one step from the final.  With growth from those in front of him, who knows how far that will take the Hawks.    But still, for those of us, myself included at times, who think next season is pretty much a year-long March To The Sea, well, one need look no further than the Wachovia Center (or whatever it's called these days) to see it doesn't always work out that way. 

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Seems to me that the Hawks are intentionally working to address a possible defensive/goaltending deficiency with their forward signings. Hossa is an outstanding two-way player, while Madden and Kopecky are obviously extremely focused and capable in their own end.

With little wiggle room between the pipes because of Huet’s contract, and their Top5 defensive rotation already set, the organization seems to think that the defensive additions at the forward position can offset any step down from last season’s personnel.

by Dr. Ice on Jul 23, 2009 12:57 PM CDT reply actions  

In the games where huet really sucked he never looked settled. During that winning streak he looked really locked in and focused. He had more shutouts than habby too. I’m not saying he’s the second coming but I’m willing to give this “consecutive starts” theory a chance to prove itself. If he still sucks our only option would be to kidnap mason from the columbus blow jobs. We could keep him in my basement and tell him if he doesn’t rip up his contract and play for the hawks we’ll eat his family.

by ZootSuitZombie on Jul 23, 2009 2:02 PM CDT reply actions  

We are in more trouble than you think

Unless we are readying for a deal or two with our huge crop of forwards.

Five Hole Huet blows – or at the very least is not an upgrade over Khabi. No way Five Hole withstands as many periods of constant absent and/or absent minded defensive play as Khabi did. And the mere fact that we have to resort to tearing down Khabi to make Huet look better speaks volumes about our goalie situation to begin with.

Now, if Five Hole had some depth on defense in front of him, maybe a not so bleak outlook.

That being said, I would trade our entire blue line corp except for 2 and 7 for almost anyone else’s B and C groups. We suck beyond that pair of defenders and no amount of back checking forwards will fix the gaping hole we have on defense.

So ask yourself this question: Are we a better team today than we were last year. If you answer yes to that then I need some of what you are smoking.

by Return of the Roar on Jul 23, 2009 2:36 PM CDT reply actions  

Wowser. I think our D is pretty rock solid. Keith and Seabs are among the league’s best pairings; Campbell and Hjalmarsson complemented each other really well in the playoffs, to the point that they were arguably even better than The Summit Series (7 and 2, 72 … hey, it works for Daydream Nation); and I’m a fan of the late-blooming Barker, gotta say it. I think he’ll improve still further in his sophomore year. Sopel … well okay, but who’s to say he’ll be our 6th? And I just don’t get the knock on Huet; he’s not Brodeur, and he’s not starter-proven, but he’s definitely not Esche or Emery or Cechmanek, etc. He was statistically identical to Khabby last year, and since the lockout—yes, again, I know, he hasn’t been a full-fledged starter—but statistically speaking he’s been at the top.

I mean, we had the 5th best goals against average in the entire league last season … that’s a good goalie and defense tandem if you ask me, not one that could be characterized generally as “absent minded.”

And then we got better at forward besides, if only because we’re a year older. But I also think Hossa and one year of Madden are significantly better than Havlat and 6 weeks of Pahlsson. Guess I’ll keep to what is I’m smoking; I definitely don’t see a falling sky.

by ChicoMaki on Jul 23, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Last season

We had Khabi.

Is there one defenseman on our squad right now that any opposing forward in the NHL would be afraid to cross the blue line and run into?

Nuff said.

by Return of the Roar on Jul 23, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why is it enough said? Last season we had two number ones with practically the same stats, and we had virtually the same defense as now—and we were 5th best in goals against. Who cares about opposing players being afraid of our blueline as long as they’re not scoring against us … while we’re scoring against them?

by ChicoMaki on Jul 23, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Easy

Last season we had one number one and one number two goalie. Khabi played the big games except for when he was injured, so the stats are skewed – in his favor. This season we have one number two goalie and two unproven rookies.

We lost Walker – never a big fan of his, but we are at a physical net loss now.

Not caring about physical presence in the defensive zone is why we lose battles on the boards and often cave to offensive rushes. There is absolutely no intimidation factor, and like it or not, that is a critical component in hockey. It is a dangerous strategy to depend on offense to pick up bad defense – especially if the other team’s goalie is better than yours is.

by Return of the Roar on Jul 23, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess we’re just not going to agree on this one. I don’t recall us caving to offensive rushes any more or less than any other team; and Detroit and Pittsburgh had two of the more physically unintimidating defenses in the entire league, and Carolina’s was pretty unassuming as well. They all fared pretty well.

by ChicoMaki on Jul 23, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

For all the times...

Barker, Campblow, or Walker gave up the puck, or made an errant pass that ended up in our net, I’m surprised you feel that way.

I watched at least 6 goals in the playoffs that were the direct result of lackluster defensive performances. All of which could have been easily corrected, and were mistakes that great teams do not make.

by hawkgrit on Jul 24, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Barker scored 40 points in 68 games and is the single best point man on our power play.

The Campbell bashing is so fucking tired. Yes, it’s a large, long contract. But he is invaluable to our team and was our best, most consistent defenseman in the playoffs.

Last time I looked, Walker is no longer here.

If you only saw 6 goals given up because of defensive mistakes, you weren’t watching closely enough. EVERY bloody team gives up goals as a result of defensive mistakes, numerous goals. If there weren’t defensive fuck-ups there’d be no goals. I’m so tired of this shit. Carolina absolutely dismantled Boston and Pittsburgh down low in both series with their forecheck. It happens, no team wins every defensive battle.

Once again: we had the 5th best goals against in the entire league last season. We went to the Conference Finals. We became better this off-season. We’re FINE.

by ChicoMaki on Jul 24, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bottom Line

5th isn’t 1st or 2nd. Last time I checked, they don’t give out trophies for 5th place in the playoffs, or regular season. If we’re after a cup, we should not be settling.

If the end goal is looking to improve, we haven’t at defense in the offseason, or goaltending. While no team wins every defensive battle, the Hawks lost alot more than they won last season, and this is my issue.

I don’t care about Campbell’s contract. Yes, he was consistent in the playoffs. My beef with him is his attitude. He fucks up in game #2 against Detroit leaving Khabby out to dry in a 3-1. Then when interviewed says he’d make the same pass in the same situation. We brought him here to be an impact player and set an example for our young defensive core. Own up to it, and prove differently from then on – a la Huet from Game 4 to Game 5 against Detroit. In my eyes, he hasn’t, but I sure hope he does this season.

by hawkgrit on Jul 24, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh geez. I feel like an ass. See, that’s why we’re arguing in the first place. I’ve been arguing from the perspective of wanting to finish 6th this coming season. No wonder we’ve been identifying such different team needs.

by ChicoMaki on Jul 24, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

A problem in this logic..
5th isn’t 1st or 2nd. Last time I checked, they don’t give out trophies for 5th place in the playoffs, or regular season. If we’re after a cup, we should not be settling.

The teams above Chicago in GAA for the regular season (in order) – Boston, Minnesota, San Jose, New Jersey.

Pittsburgh was 17th overall – Detroit was 20th.

Second City Hockey - Blackhawks, Beers, Beards & Blasphemy

by Killion on Jul 27, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh sure, bring logic into it.

SHOOOOOOOT IT!!!! Anon

by burpchelischili on Jul 27, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I might be in the minority here, but I kind of think that the role of big, physical tough guys might be overrated a bit in today’s game. I don’t think you have to strike fear into the heart of an opponent or be a giant bruiser to play an effective physical game.

Remember when the wimpy Hawks were supposed to get pounded into submission by the big, physical Flames?

by Geoffhawk on Jul 23, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

uhhhhh.....

I’m not going to get into semantics about numbers or defensive rankings or even the stellar plus/minus numbers of most of our d-men. I will, however, give anecdotal evidence by saying that I remember watching Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook take guys off the puck 1-on-1 quite a few times this year. I specifically and vividly remember Dunc taking a healthy Marion Gaborik 1-on-1 in the 07-08 season and make him look completely ordinary.

I’m absolutely unconcerned about our defensive core, and I’m a complete Barker-hater. When Barker and Johnson (or Hendry) are your 3rd pairing, you’re probably doing pretty OK. And I’m with Chico when he points out that a defense doesn’t have to be big to be effective – just skilled and positionally sound (or speedy in campbell’s case).

by hoorock89 on Jul 23, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Shipping Walker out took a least 40 give-aways out from in front of Huet.

SHOOOOOOOT IT!!!! Anon

by burpchelischili on Jul 23, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I stand corrected. I knew it was 40mumble, just wasn’t sure exactly.
Thank you Dr. Ice

SHOOOOOOOT IT!!!! Anon

by burpchelischili on Jul 23, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Didn’t mean to “correct”, just supporting your case!

by Dr. Ice on Jul 23, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup, bad wiggum gone.

SHOOOOOOOT IT!!!! Anon

by burpchelischili on Jul 23, 2009 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Philly would love to have Huet

Honestly, just like most other people, doubt entered my mind every time Huet took the ice last season. But he really didn’t play too poorly. He was above average in GAA and SV% to go along with three shutouts. And that might be the worst season of his career. If he plays like he did in 06-07 and 07-08, then the Hawks may have a President’s trophy.

It’s hard to lose someone like Khabby, but there are probably only five shutdown goaltenders that you would hate to face in the entire league. Huet is probably in that next group, the 10-20 group that’s still in the middle third, but doesn’t strike fear in other NHL teams. Detroit has won a Cup with Osgood. Pittsburgh has won a Cup with Fleury. But Luongo, Kiprusoff, and Lundqvist don’t have Cups.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be critical of our weaknesses, and Chicago hasn’t had weakness in goal for quite a while. However, Huet will be an average goaltender leading an above average defensive unit with an excellent offense. This spells the success of another winning season, especially as our defensive corps continues to grow and progress, and we’ve added more defensive forwards to shore up defensive weaknesses through the middle on our third and fourth lines.

by warrenjm2006 on Jul 23, 2009 2:56 PM CDT reply actions  

Please

Tell me one team that has won the Cup in the last twenty years with an “average” goaltender (since the Hawks lost to Pittsburgh and Tom Barasso).

I just keep coming up with names like Fuhr, Vernon, Roy, Brodeur, Belfour, Richter, and oh yeah… Khabibulin.

Great teams are built from the crease out, not the reverse.

by Return of the Roar on Jul 23, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

how great of a goalie is fleury?

he just raised the cup facing off against a guy who’s won several in detroit… regardless of what you think of osgood

"...but the devil lives inside this kid, I swear it. It rises out of him in a mist, this baby-faced defiant wrathful version of Pat Kane, escapes his bodily confines to perform satanic miracles all over the offensive zone. The only thing more fearsome than that assist was the keep-in preceding it. The only thing more unholy than his face is his black magic." GMH

by Illini0509 on Jul 23, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fleury and Osgood were both pretty ordinary

Great goaltending is nice, but none of the four teams in the conference finals last year had top tier goalies.

Khabi and Huey…not much to choose from.

The team will be better this year, for the simple reason that this is what happens when you have the youngest team in the league. Almost every guy out there will improve over last year.

Seebs is what, 24? He can become a dominating physical presence over the next year ot two.

by cliffkoroll on Jul 23, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

agree

i don’t think either of these guys are in the roy/brodeur class – they won cups

we brought luongo to tears

riding a franchise goalie to the cup seems like a myth… don’t get me wrong, its better to have a franchise goalie, but they are not necessary to win the cup in my opinion, we’ve got a strong blue line and acquired some strong 2-way forwards

"...but the devil lives inside this kid, I swear it. It rises out of him in a mist, this baby-faced defiant wrathful version of Pat Kane, escapes his bodily confines to perform satanic miracles all over the offensive zone. The only thing more fearsome than that assist was the keep-in preceding it. The only thing more unholy than his face is his black magic." GMH

by Illini0509 on Jul 23, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's see

Will Osgood go to the hall of fame? Yes.

Did Osgood allow us to “score in bunches”? No.

by Return of the Roar on Jul 23, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

did pittsburgh score in bunches?

yes… as many pointed out, our team was young, they’re all going to improve their point totals… i’m too lazy to look but i’m on board with whoever said we’re not going to be a team needing shutouts and won’t need 7 goals to win a game.. we don’t need the best defense/goaltending in the league to compete for the cup because our offense is pretty strong

"...but the devil lives inside this kid, I swear it. It rises out of him in a mist, this baby-faced defiant wrathful version of Pat Kane, escapes his bodily confines to perform satanic miracles all over the offensive zone. The only thing more fearsome than that assist was the keep-in preceding it. The only thing more unholy than his face is his black magic." GMH

by Illini0509 on Jul 24, 2009 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fleury

was outstanding at home…check the road splits

by Crease Monkey on Jul 23, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

probably not the best metric to compare the two but

fleury career: 235 g 907 sv % 2.87 gaa

huet career: 224 g 917 sv % 2.45 gaa

I’m not trying to say huet is better based on the above (fleury being much younger and with more upside), but he’s won a cup and up to this point, the numbers have been pretty similar…

"...but the devil lives inside this kid, I swear it. It rises out of him in a mist, this baby-faced defiant wrathful version of Pat Kane, escapes his bodily confines to perform satanic miracles all over the offensive zone. The only thing more fearsome than that assist was the keep-in preceding it. The only thing more unholy than his face is his black magic." GMH

by Illini0509 on Jul 24, 2009 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Aside from a couple of games in the Calgary series, Khabby wasn’t exactly a world beater in the playoffs. What got the Hawks past the Flames and the Canucks was that when they needed to, they relied on what they did well, which is scoring in bunches. As Kane, Toews, Versteeg, Bolland, Buff, hell even Brouwer mature and develop in the league, they are going to continue to increase their point totals. I’m not saying that we’re going to have to score 7 goals a game to win, but we certainly don’t need a shutout every night to win games.

http://accordingtwomey.blogspot.com

by hawksfan21 on Jul 23, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Niittymaki

He went to the Lightning. They won’t have old Antero to kick around anymore in Philly.

by Andrew Cieslak on Jul 23, 2009 3:00 PM CDT reply actions  

The minutia is killing me

I didn’t watch a lot of Flyer’s hockey last year, but I sure wasn’t impressed when they played the Hawks. I don’t care about any comparisons and none of us knows what the Hawks are going to bring this year. The reality is that we don’t have any of the historic goalies above. Should we just hang it up now before the season starts and accept that we suck defensively and don’t deserve to compete for a cup? Should we just go ahead and give up Toews, Kane AND Hossa because we didn’t secure a cup worthy goalie first? Goaltending alone was not why we did not make it to the SCF and if Huet posts a similar year this time around, it will not be the reason we don’t win a cup.

by NKLHD on Jul 23, 2009 3:36 PM CDT reply actions  

No, don't give up

Keep the three you mentioned. Trade some of our other cap friendly offensive talent for a true A goalie and some upgraded defensemen.

We have all of the markings of a one dimensional team, and those teams don’t win cups.

by Return of the Roar on Jul 23, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

For what goalie?

I mean who is available that will not require us giving up major talent for? If we need to give up Sharp, VERSTEEG! and Buff, I don’t think we’ve gained ground. Calling us one dimensional is a bit strong, but not without some truth. If I hadn’t seen any flashes of possibility for the Hawks being able to play solid two way hockey, I would agree with you more. In my eyes though, I saw things that I think are fixable without jetisoning tons of talent. I’m not sure right now that what you want is available for what we are willing to give up. This team is not the grind and whack the shit out of opponents teams of the 80’s when I first started to watch them. I’m not saying we don’t need to upgrade a Sopel or Huet if possible, but we also need guys that can skate. Unless we dump all of our D and start from scratch, I don’t think we are going build a feared blueline by dumping Buff, STEEG and Sharp. I dunno, I’m willing to wait and see what Huet is like when the season starts. Given what seems available now in the UFA market, I’m not sure we really have much choice.

by NKLHD on Jul 23, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

And who

do you think we would need to give up for Nabokov?

by NKLHD on Jul 23, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

That would be worth looking at

Depending of course on what we had to pay Nabokov. STEEG! and farm kids would be easier to discuss, but we still have a lot of money tied up in Huet and there isn’t any way around that unless he is part of the package deal.

by NKLHD on Jul 23, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

So, basically what you’re saying is, we keep all of our A list talent, and we trade away other players to get a top-tier goalie and some premier defensemen. Well, okay, I agree after all. Let’s do that. If we manage to assemble an all-star team we should do alright.

by ChicoMaki on Jul 23, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I like this comment.

Got more soul than a sock with a hole.

by chrome on Jul 23, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oops

No, we have lots of A list talent to trade on the offensive side without losing our core of stars. And lots of talent on the farm as well.

Like I said above – if we make some deals we could be much better positioned than last year – and we have the people to do it.

by Return of the Roar on Jul 23, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

One thing your argument needs to consider

Where is the money going to come from? Look at the free agent signings around the league over the last five years. We see an increase in years of term and in dollars spent. If we pursue a top tier goalie and replace everybody but the Fridge (72, get it?), how do we afford the salaries that Daydream Nation, Dunc and, eventually. Seabs will demand?

Not only that, but think about the other teams you’re proposing to trade with; they will want to be as strong on their end of the deal as we would be on ours. Not all the teams, especially San Jose, need what we can give for what we want. Inter-conference and inter-divisional teams will see what we are trying to do and could do a firgurative cock-block, refusing to deal with the ’Hawks anymore.

by russellguldin on Jul 24, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

I’m confident that both Huet and Niemi can be successful in Chicago. Our defense will do what it can to take away chances and our goaltenders will do what they can to stop the ones that do get through.

I get it, July is slow… but being worried this early into a season that hasn’t even started, is a bit ridiculous.

by wlittle on Jul 23, 2009 3:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Dude, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I’ve been a Hawks fan my entire life, and I’m in the same boat as wlittle. Your opinions of Huet are just those, opinions, yet you are declaring them as facts.

The sky isn’t falling. Huet has the abilities to be a very solid #1. His problems have been mental. Hopefully he can get off to a strong start, because with that confidence boost, I think he could have a great year.

by Geoffhawk on Jul 23, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good to know

I guess as long as it is my opinion it does not count for much :)

by Return of the Roar on Jul 23, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lord help me...

but I have to do it.

Let me state my opinion, and I know that it is fact. You are being a pesimistic freak.

Tell me one team that has won the Cup in the last twenty years with an "average" goaltender (since the Hawks lost to Pittsburgh and Tom Barasso). I just keep coming up with names like Fuhr, Vernon, Roy, Brodeur, Belfour, Richter, and oh yeah… Khabibulin.

I remember watching Belfour in Chicago, wondering when he was going to turn into swiss cheese. Normally in the playoffs. Besides, do you realize just how bad those goalies would have been called if nobody was scoring in front of them?

SHOOOOOOOT IT!!!! Anon

by burpchelischili on Jul 23, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

So what did Belfour do?

Won the Cup with the Stars.

Again, name me one team that won the cup with an “average” goalie.

by Return of the Roar on Jul 23, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, Madono was the force on the run, belfour was the block of cheese in goal.

SHOOOOOOOT IT!!!! Anon

by burpchelischili on Jul 23, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK

So if I grant you that Eddie was not an A guy, and Barasso was not an A guy, that translates to only 90% of the cup winners in the last twenty years had “A” goalies.

That means we have a 10% chance.

by Return of the Roar on Jul 23, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don’t forget the Golden Brett. And Darryl Sydor and Sergei Zubov. And Neal Broten. And Jamie Langenbrunner.

by russellguldin on Jul 24, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Spit-take theater has begun!

SHOOOOOOOT IT!!!! Anon

by burpchelischili on Jul 23, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’d expect someone with such tenure as a fan would have a little more perspective than to freak out in July.

by Dr. Ice on Jul 23, 2009 4:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Maybe

The problem is that this fan has perspective.

Analyze the Detroit series and you find the weak link – no defensive depth. Keith and Seabs rock – no doubt about it – they are awesome.The Wings just waited for them to end their shifts or be caught with no legs left to put the hurt on the Hawks. And the lack of depth/skill/experience exposed us.

And Osgood beat our offensive punch when he had to.

by Return of the Roar on Jul 23, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cool, the Hawks and wings played another series? ‘cause I just don’t think I saw that one.

SHOOOOOOOT IT!!!! Anon

by burpchelischili on Jul 23, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK, playoff stats Detroit series

Campbell – plus/minus = -6; 1 pt, 11 shots on goal
Barker – plus/minus = -3; 2pts, 10 shots on goal
Walker – plus/minus = 0; 0 pts, 9 shots on goal
Kjarm – plus/minus = -2; 0 pts, 4 shots on goal
Seabs – plus/minus = -3; 3 pts, 13 shots on goal
Keith – plus/minus = -3; 1 pt, 5 shots on goal

The numbers speak for themselves.

by Return of the Roar on Jul 23, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

You Sure?

I just looked on NHL.com – Campbell was -5 and Barker -2, not that it is much better, I would question the rest of these numbers as well though… Though a lot of that is skewed from the train wreck that was game 4. As bad as those numbers potentially look – Hawks are better now, Wings are not as good now, and the Hawks lost two OT thrillers in two of the four games – very easily could have gone 7. I am not sure what the point of those numbers is to begin with though, no sense drudging that up, the new season starts in a couple of months, the Detroit series will soon be but a mere learning experience.

by 329Fan on Jul 23, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hjalmarsson

I really like this guy. He has great fundamentals, and played like a complete veteran throughout the playoffs despite his lack of NHL experience.

What alot of people forget is that he played just 21 NHL games before entering the playoffs this past year. I think he has great potential, and definitely has an environment to grow and develop. Much to his dismay, he was paired with Campbell, but I feel that it was a positive experience for him.

I honestly think that despite his small stature, he plays bigger than he looks. I saw him deliver some very nice hits, and has an excellent “on-the-puck” mentality. Definitely Lidstromesque type potential here. Possibly a solution to the strong defender you are clamoring for.

The more I wathced the Hawks last season, the more I thought of him as one of our more consistent defensive D-men.

by hawkgrit on Jul 24, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hammer time!

I definitely agree with you on Super Nintendo Hjalmers. I love his positioning and his control of his stick. The last season game against Scum he had Datsyuk trapped with the puck in the corner; PD tried to back out using his elbows, and Hammer’s stick was in his back; he’d go left, and Hammer was poking with his stick; he’d go right, and Hammer put his body in the way. He never rushed at PD, but frustrated him into just throwing the puck behind the net, where Soup grabbed it up and skated away. I like the comparison you made; I just hope it comes true.

by russellguldin on Jul 24, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t say “Lidstromesque” potential for Hjammer, but (and I hate to say it because Pierre McScumHonk beat me to it on his TSN coverage of the Hawks/Flamers series that they replayed on NHL Network)…but he routinely referred to Hjammer as the Blackhawks future version of Nik Kronwall…and I think that is very possible…hopefully minus the cheapshot hits.

by Crease Monkey on Jul 24, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seperate point

I thought an extremely weak link had to do with the Hawks not playing a full game. I’m not talking about trying to Kronwall everything that moves, but I am talking about skating everything out, finishing checks without taking themselves out of the play and keeping the tempo up. In my opinion, once the Pens started to do all the above, they were entirely able to manage the scum. Against the Hawks, the scum lived off mistakes in my opinion rather than dominate the game. As a credit to them, they do not give up and get lazy. maybe it’s semantics, but I think there is a difference between dominating a game and just sitting back waiting for a younger team to make mistakes. One game, and one game only they whipped our ass. The other three we lost truly could have gone either way. From no playoffs to conference final in one year is a hell of a move, few teams in any sport make that kind of jump even when they go out and buy gobs of talent. Even if we add more free agents with experience, the core of this team still needs to learn.

by NKLHD on Jul 23, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or, Maybe

I think that is certainly one way to interpret it. The Hawks are a young team, and we definitely knew that coming into the Detroit series. It certainly played into the Wings’ favor.

However, you could also interpret it as them actually having a solid defensive core, and not just a top pairing. Hell, even Lidstrom was out a couple games, and they still managed to beat us. That is not only a testament to the coaching staff in Detroit, but also the mentality of the players wearing the sweaters as well.

Kieth and Seabs did awesome, but after that our pairings were very lackluster. We praise Barker for his contributions throughout the regular season and playoffs, but were any of his accomplishments defensive in nature? And when you have an idiot like Campbell taking it from one end of the ice to the other, he can weave all he wants, but the puck often ended up in the wrong hands. Did he ever put the defensive clamp on a threat when it counted?

While there is something to be said for offensive defenseman, they really need to remember they are there to protect our end of the ice first. That instinct is what separates great defenseman from average ones. On our roster, I think Kieth, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson understand this. The Hawks would certainly benefit from them sharing their approach with the rest of the defensive core.

by hawkgrit on Jul 24, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Congratulations on the perspective granted you from the asylum. We had one of the better defensive corps in the league last year and we lost only Walker. Matt Walker. Matt “Someone Tie My Laces For Me” Walker. A career third-pairing defenseman at best. A great teammate and a hard worker, but hardly the beacon of our blueline. And this loss makes us dangerously weak when combined with a goalie that has statistically been among the top goalies in the league since the lockout? Those are facts, too. But you’ve talked mysteriously about the d constantly caving last year, about one single series against Detroit.

And for a remedy we just go out and get Nabokov? Easy as pie, I guess, just go out and trade Versteeg and one or two farm boys for one of the 6 or 7 best goalies in the league. Seriosuly? San Jose doesn’t even have a back-up signed, let alone another viable starter. Not to mention our own salary cap.

I don’t know, maybe I’m being a bit of a dick back. But seriously, what has changed since last year that has you so panicked? The loss of Walker and Khabibulin’s 40 starts?

by ChicoMaki on Jul 24, 2009 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lack of a Proven Offensive Player = Pressure on Defense and Goalie

Given the whole Hossa situation, I think the Hawks will be down a big gun for the beginning of the season. Havlat’s production last year, although severely discounted by both of his previous contractual years, was exactly what the Hawks needed in some situations.

One game in particular comes to mind – Game 4 in the UC against Vancouver. Havlat creates that play in the offensive zone off the boards near Ladd all by himself and puts it top shelf to tie it up with close to a minute left in regulation.

While I think no one can say we lack offensive potential in our young talent, I feel that the lack of a proven offensive weapon is going to translate in a more complete approach to game management for the Hawks. This will manifest itself in defensive zone pressure.

Personally, I feel that Huet will do just fine. But given our defensive blunders in the regular season and playoffs by Barker and Campbell, we need to be stronger defensively in our own zone, as well as handling the puck along the blue line in the other end.

by hawkgrit on Jul 24, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I feel that Kane and Toews are proven offensive talents, with each over fifty points in their first two years in the league.

by russellguldin on Jul 27, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just an opinion

But how about we see how Huet does? No one really knows, some games last year, he was all world, others he was terrible – IMHO most of the time he was a bit more good than bad – I am too lazy to look up the numbers, but wasn’t he awesome for Washington down the stretch two years ago? Also, sometimes average goalies get hot and become great in April and beyond… just an opinion, I think we need to see how the team looks – another opinion, I am smoke free and think the team is MUCH better than a year ago – just on experiences sake alone.

by 329Fan on Jul 23, 2009 9:16 PM CDT reply actions  

Overall, I'm pretty comfortable with things as they are

I wouldn’t even suggest Fuhr is a better goalie than Huet. Hell, I coulda put up a few W’s with the squad he had in front of him back in the mid 80’s. There have actually been a few chump goaltenders to hoist the Cup but I certainly wouldn’t put Huet in the same category until I see him play. Nobody’s seen the guy put in anywhere near a full season yet and I, for one, am excited (as in very) to see what he’s capable of. In his half season last year he finished top 10 in the league in both GAA and Save%. He must be hungry as hell after all these years to finally be getting his kick at the can as #1.

As for similarities to the Flyers – barf!

"Call Detroit, tell dem... BULLSHIT!"

by Hungryhawk on Jul 23, 2009 9:43 PM CDT reply actions  

I said at one point

that I thought Huet was similar to Jeff Hackett; a man who could stop a puck when he was supposed to, but pretty weak on surprises. I watched every game that I could this year, and I stand by my OPINION. Huet did look like Hack on several occasions, but that is not a bad thing. Hack was good but he had the poor timing of being on the ’Hawks when we began our sad, sad climb down the ladder. If Hack had the defense we have along with the offensive potency in our four lines he would be far better remembered here in Chicago.

by russellguldin on Jul 24, 2009 11:55 AM CDT reply actions  

Hack also shares the record for consecutive wins with Tony O

and I thought I remembered him getting close to a record for consecutive shutout minutes at one point, but I can’t find that online.

Anyway, point of this trip on my wayback machine is that I agree with you. If Huet can play like Hackett with the talent this group has, we’ll be fine.

Got more soul than a sock with a hole.

by chrome on Jul 24, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Huet is fine. It's the backup that's scary.

I think that the entire goaltending situation for the Blackhawks boils down to our core of tenders, not our #1.

I think that Huet will always have his naysayers. Whether they chalk it up to his butterfly approach to being in the net, # of games played over a season, or age; these are all convincing. However, as with any professional sport, statistics do not lie. John Jaeckel wrote an article over on his blog: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/John-Jaeckel/Vive-lhomme-de-France/128/22234. In it, he compares Huet’s stats with the last four goaltenders that have won a Stanley Cup.

CAREER GAA SAVE%

Huet 2.45 .917
Osgood 2.47 .906
Fleury 2.87 .907
Giguere 2.49 .914
Ward 2.81 .903

Now, what stands out to me out of those numbers in particular is the Save %. I am sure people can come up with an argument that some defenses were better than others for goaltenders who won the cup, and that obviously adds to their overall success. But let’s face it, a goalie’s job is to stop the puck. And Huet does a fine job at just that.

I think a large part of Huet’s criticism comes from the fact that he’s coming into a #1 role not having had a full season under his belt in that position. Obviously, the Blackhawks are going into ‘09-’10 with full intentions of Huet being the starter; I don’t think there’s any denying that. Given the depth of this team, and our potential, I think this is a perfect opportunity to give him a sure shot at proving himself.

Personally, the thing that stood out to me about Huet last season was how he ended it. Game 4 was complete garbage, and I think we can all agree to that. But it was Game 5 that was absolutely amazing. I will never forget his save he made with his skate when he was sprawled out in the crease to keep it tied. And that final goal in OT was a fluke. We all should remember that before Game 4, Huet hadn’t played in 6 weeks. How many of you would consider giving a presentation in a meeting having only brushed over the material, and not read it? Not many. As such, Huet’s situation in the Detroit series was less than ideal.

Now when it comes to the backups for Huet, that is where my biggest concern lies. Neither Crawford of Niemi have any real NHL experience. And with the Blackhawks being a serious contender for the cup this year, that is completely unacceptable. If I were Hawks brass right now, I’d strongly consider acquiring Giguere from Anahiem; either during this offseason, or near the trade deadline if Huet isn’t cutting it. He had a rough year with his father passing away, and Hiller exploded onto the scene there. A change of scenery is exactly what this guy needs. I’d be willing to argue that either one of those goalies could be considered a starter, let alone backup. They could certainly use some of our offensive depth at the forward position as well, as that was ultimately their downfall against Detroit. I think Nabakov is a solid tender, but he also had the highest rebound % in the league last year.

Anyways, stuff to think about. Sorry it’s so long.

by hawkgrit on Jul 24, 2009 12:34 PM CDT reply actions  

Easy

Well, considering our farm is insanely overstocked with talent begging for a shot here in the bigs, here’s what I’d do.

I’d send Buff and Versteeg both to Anahiem for Giguere. Aliu, Skille, and Beach are all ready for the NHL and basically waiting on someone to get dealt for them to have a shot.

Aliu – Buff x2
Skille and Beach – mirror our other young forwards very much

This deal would definitely give Anahiem what they’re looking for also. Byfuglien fits into Anahiem’s very physical playstyle, and Versteeg gives them a very solid 2nd line winger. You have to remember that outside that first line last season, Anahiem really struggled offensively. I know they picked up Koivu, which should help them at C, but their wings could use upgrading since Selanne is on his way out very soon. I think it’s a win-win. Buff and Steeg’s contracts are both at 3M each, which makes it equal on both sides.

If I were to do this deal, I’d wait until the trade deadline this season. I’d need to see how Huet had been performing, as well as monitoring the situation in Anahiem.

by hawkgrit on Jul 24, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

So you’re set to trade two top six wingers away and rely on Aliu and Beach, neither of whom has played an NHL game, and Skille, who couldn’t crack our line-up last year even when we had injuries, all for the luxury of having 12 million in salary tied up in goalies again?

by ChicoMaki on Jul 24, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Buff and Versteeg "top six"?

I don’t think so.

However, we stand to get the most for them both now in a trade.

I think Niemi/Crawford are dealable as well.

I’d still rather see Nabokov. Giguere’s kid is really sick and I don’t think relocating is in the cards for him solely because of that.

by Return of the Roar on Jul 24, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fuck it. I’m on board, let’s get Giguere and Nabokov. Keep Huet. With all three, teams won’t even want to play us.

I’m not arguing anymore. I’m right and I’m going home.

by ChicoMaki on Jul 24, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don’t forget to take tour puck.

SHOOOOOOOT IT!!!! Anon

by burpchelischili on Jul 25, 2009 5:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Depending on How Badly We Needed Goalie Help, Yes

OR. Buff/Steeg + some drafts

OR. Huet + Buff/Steeg

OR. Huet + drafts

The main concern of my proposal was taking on the 6M in Giguere. Also, it’s more than certain that teams won’t be willing to take on Huet’s contract until he’s proven.

IMO, Buff is overrated. And with the skillset Aliu has, he’d be a quicker, more defined version of #33. I think he’d do great in the NHL.

In regards to Skille and Beach, I would be willing to give them a shot. Without Versteeg and Byfuglien, we are still a deep offensive team.

You also have to remember that Buff only really showed up in the playoffs, and that was arguably for the Vancouver series and then one game in Detroit (offensively, mind you). We’d be missing Versteeg’s production, but I am willing to sacrifice a little of our depth up front for security between the pipes.

by hawkgrit on Jul 24, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it’s WAY too early to be worrying about goaltending and what deals we can make to shore up the position. Give Huet a shot.

And guys like Hiller, or Mason, or to a lesser extent Varlamov come from unproven guys who shine when given their chance. What’s to say Crawford or Niemi couldn’t blossom into a legitimate NHLer? Though both are green at the NHL level, both have enjoyed success in the AHL, not to mention that they are 2 separate guys. If one doesn’t work out, maybe the other will. I think the Hawks are in better shape here because they aren’t putting all their backup eggs in one basket.

by Geoffhawk on Jul 24, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thank-you

"Call Detroit, tell dem... BULLSHIT!"

by Hungryhawk on Jul 24, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

WTF??

11.5 million on goalies.

The solution to an “unreliable” backup is to bring a guy whose skills are diminished and was benched the last part of the regular season and playoffs.

If nothing else you’re willing to make several different stupid arguments with conviction.

by Hawk is God on Jul 25, 2009 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed...

Alot of rampant hysteria and stupid pipe dreams being floated by a few folks here. Putting together a winning team requires a fine balance that can’t be achieved by simply signing big names into every position (just ask the Rangers). And a top tier goalie is no panacea for a team that can’t keep up – the Luongo reference made earlier in this string is spot on.

If the Hawks really need insurance for Huet – I’d like them to make a play for a guy like Corey Schneider rather than a big name well-past his prime who will make the cap issues worse.

Finally, I throw this out for consideration: How many “great goalies” only got that moniker at the end of a succesful playoff run – playoff runs begun with huge question marks regarding their ability to carry the load? Wasn’t that Giguere before Anaheim made it’s Cup run? Cam Ward? Please, give the perenial pessimism a break.

by whw on Jul 25, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm still OK with Huet

But I still think we need at least one more good d-man. I’m just really worried that one of the top 4 of them goes out with an injury and then the lack of depth in D will really show, and then I’m not so comfortable with just Huet and Niemi/Crawford.

If I can't be a good example, I'll just be a horrible warning

by Trixietrx on Jul 24, 2009 5:37 PM CDT reply actions  

What's the difference?

Everyone’s so willing to trade away Buff and Steeger for a goalie and let Aliu, Beach, and Skille take a crack at the NHL. We’re basing their readiness off of what, body size and how they played in juniors or the AHL?

But there’s apparently a problem with having Crawford or Niemi as Huet’s backups because they’ve only shown success at the AHL level and haven’t yet had the chance to prove themselves in the NHL.

So what’s the difference there? Why are you willing to take the chance on a rookie forward but not a rookie goalie? If you argue that one of those forwards wouldn’t likely be among the top 6 and wouldn’t see a whole lot of ice time, I’d counter with the fact that we’re talking about backup goalies here.

Maybe Crawford and Niemi don’t have boatloads of NHL experience, but everyone has to start somewhere, and backing up Huet isn’t a bad place to begin. It seems a little too similar to saying you won’t hire someone who doesn’t have any work experience. If any of the posters on this thread were hiring managers I may never get my first “real” job.

http://accordingtwomey.blogspot.com

by hawksfan21 on Jul 26, 2009 1:40 AM CDT reply actions  

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