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Cap trouble comes early

Everyone said it'd be next season for the cap issues to start coming. Well guess what? They're here now.

Mirtle has a great post about teams' current situation. It also touches on the escro/spending issues that are occurring across the league.

He has Chicago sitting with about 4.6 million and 3 empty slots to be filled. Two of those spots are tentatively for Barker and Versteeg. What Chicago did with Bolland was raise the bar. Versteeg and his agent are going to want more than Bolland got. And I'm guessing Barker is going to want upwards of 2.5 million, maybe even 3 (the value of a PPQB is big).

Whatever the case, here's hoping Versteeg can stay. I don't think he's an offensive dynamo, but I do think he's a character guy that we need in the playoffs - when he's on the ice, he reminds me of JR with his willingness to go into those tough areas.

As far Barker goes... here's hoping someone signs him to a ridiculous offer sheet.

OH... and did anyone see the Rangers cap situation? 13 million left for 11 players? Good luck, Sather.

0 recs  |  Comment 36 comments

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a good post, but which guy is the guy?

Thanks for dropping Mirtle’s post here, and you bring up an interesting question.

Unless someone else is traded, it appears that this is a barker or versteeg issue and that the hawks can only move forward with one of the two.

It appears to me that Barker and Versteeg have a similar ceiling at their respective positions, and both have some obvious deficiencies. Barker needs to focus on becoming much better in the defensive zone, and compliment those skills with his great shot, not the other way around. In my opinion, his ability to get the puck on net from the blue line is better than any of our other defenseman, especially when campbell looks like hockey’s version of Jim Furyk with that backswing. It would also be nice to see Barker develop a little bit of a semi-enforcer seabrook-esque mean streak.

I have mixed feelings about Versteeg. We saw him score some really spectacular goals this season, but his well documented inability to get the puck in deep just got ridiculous. I kind of see Versteeg’s career being similar to sharp’s, he’ll produce his fair share of points, but not at an elite level, while playing some respectable 2 way hockey. But watching versteeg hold on to the puck and try and make plays that only Kaner and JHC (oooo, too soon?) can make was irritating nearly to the point of causing an involuntary twitch as I watched it. I know Versteeg was only a rookie, but at times it seems like he may not have enough between the ears to fully correct some of these issues. Occasionally, when Versteeg was at his worst, it seemed like he was just flat out in the way.

The other factor is obviously depth in the system. I don’t know a ton about what’s going down or will be going down in rockford, but it seems that lately on SCH there has been alot more hopeful discussion about forwards than defenseman, Beach, Aliu, etc (Albeit with somewhat different skillsets than Steeger).

As you may have guessed from my post, if it is in fact one or the other, I’m going with Barker.

I’m interested to hear what everyone thinks about my points on the two players, and who everyone else thinks we should keep.

"If you're scared, go buy a dog" - Stacey King

by hackerar on Jul 3, 2009 12:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You make some good points about both players. However, I feel like if it’s coming down to one or the other, I’m taking Versteeg. Barker’s a very talented PPQB, and has a hell of a shot from the blueline, but he’s slow and otherwise not very position oriented. Pairing him with Campbell at even strength seems a mistake, so you probably have to drop him to your third pairing. If the money spent is comparable, I’m going to take the 2nd line winger over the 5th D-man any day of the week.

http://accordingtwomey.blogspot.com

by hawksfan21 on Jul 3, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If necessary

Sopel is sent to Rockford, freeing up another 2.5 million.

by AirTrafficAJ on Jul 3, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I may be wrong ...

but the cap hit that Mirtle lists for us include all bonuses, and without those appended, especially in the cases of Kane and Toews, we have a great deal more room than the 4.486 suggested. And this is the case next year, of course—those bonuses can get pushed, as I understand it—as they only counted against the cap this year because it was the last year of the CBA. I actually have us at 9.71 mil available with 19 players signed, which leaves approx. 2.43 available per open slot. That’s perfectly do-able.

by ChicoMaki on Jul 3, 2009 1:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I’m not sure how pushing the bonuses onto next year’s cap is really going to help them, but the bonus point is well taken. The only players with significant bonuses are Kane and Toews, and both are likely to hit a lot of them.

Does anyone know what their final cap hit ended up being this season?

In any event, they won’t be spending close to $9-million more.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on Jul 3, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True, both are very likely to hit their targets; but with only three positions left to sign, and with the lesser bonuses of, say, guys like Skille off the books (or possibly a Beach or Aliu or Makarov comes in … pure dumb speculation), that adds a half-million here and there. Not bunches of cash, but wiggle room is important because that’s what we’re dealing with here.

And ya, that’s a really good question re Kane and Toews’s final hits, I’d like to know that myself.

by ChicoMaki on Jul 3, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hmnn...

I think the Hawks were right up against the cap last season, maybe a little over but the LTIR for Sopel helped sneak them back under. I assume (maybe incorrectly) that both Toews and Kane got some sort of All-star bonus, but as to what other bonuses were met or missed that’s hard to say since you rarely hear about that stuff unless a player mentions it to a beat writer and it gets printed. (I could be wrong but…)Since schedule B Bonuses are league paid the Hawks really would be on the hook for whatever the schedule A Bonuses were to players and I think there’s a max of 850,000 per player on those type.

They won’t be spending to the cap this year, unless by some miracle they can ink one of the TKK triad to an extension now or during the season, but they still have holes to fill and adding even Barker and Versteeg back to the mix will eat up a lot of cap space. They still probably need some cheaper options on the back end of the roster which is why a guy like Jordan Hendry can become useful on the blueline.

by cubby23 on Jul 5, 2009 2:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are correct Chico.

We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold.

by E Runs on Jul 3, 2009 2:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I believe so too. There’s a 3.772M bonus cushion, mainly stemming from the Kane/Toews signing bonuses which would put the number closer to what Chiko mentioned…but James is probably right, Tallon will likely won’t spend much more unless some 1 year deals are worked out.

by Crease Monkey on Jul 3, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All the cushion allows for is for that cash to be taken out of next year’s cap. That’d be a bad move.

The bonuses, however, mean they can float over the cap to start the year and hope Kane/Toews don’t hit the marks. Some of them are very easy to attain though (top six forward in ice time etc.).

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on Jul 3, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree. It’d be a very bad move to push the cap, considering our major problems will rear their ugly head next season. We all want to live in a world where Keith, Kane and Toews can remain Blackhawks… but without being conservative with guys like Byfyglien, Bolland, Barker, Versteeg and Ladd, it’s hard to think a world like that exists. We’ll have no choice to move two out of five those guys (Barker and Buff, please).

I’ve given up on the idea of a Campbell deal, because really… our best chance was with Ottawa. Sopel may have to be waived and long looks will need to be had at the prospects camp. Lets hope guys like Davis, Bickell, Skille, Dowell, Sweatt, Makarov, Lalonde, Zahn, Danis-Pepin, etc. are close to making the jump… because we’re going to need cheap, young, talent to fill the voids.

I didn’t think Hossa was even a possibility, so maybe I’m just blowing smoke. Maybe I’m wrong and Tallon/Bowmen find a way to keep the core.

by wlittle on Jul 3, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bonuses

Unlike last seasone, due to the possibility of the CBA being opened up, teams can again go over the cap but only by the total amount of the assumed bonuses. If those players attain their bonuses there is no peanality to the team and it has nothing to do with taking cash out of next years cap total.

No offensive but if your going to blog about Cap issuses I’d think you’d want to know this.

We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold.

by E Runs on Jul 4, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scum lose

M.Samuelsson 3y/$7.5M to the Canucks.

by Crease Monkey on Jul 3, 2009 2:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Is it just me

Or the is the wings blog looking like that guy from the holy grail screaming “It’s just a flesh wound!” Granted, they have depth and some real good looking prospects, but they also got some guys getting a little long in the tooth. Am I missing something here?

by NKLHD on Jul 3, 2009 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

losing Hossa will be a major hit to them because they really can’t afford to bring in a replacement anywhere near his value…which the guys over at puckprospectus think could be worth at least 8 points in the standings

http://www.puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=211

but losing Samuelsson/Kopecky isn’t too much of hit for them outside of experience. Helm, Leino, and J.Activator make them younger and have just as much skill, if not more, than Kopecky/Samuelsson so I guess if I were a Scum fan I wouldn’t care too much either. One of the guys over at TSN had an article prognosticating that Leino can produce the same offensive stats as Samuelsson. So if they resign Hudler they’ll have their set 12 forwards even after losing 3 of their starters from last year simply by plugging in these 3 young guys. I guess if you have the track record of the last 20 years of drafting that the Scum have had I wouldn’t worry too much either. Knowing that system they probably have another 3 forwards ready to come up from the minors and step in and contribute.

by Crease Monkey on Jul 3, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It looks like down town detroit over there, a few people wandering around muttering nonsense mostly, and once in a while they yell things like “We didn’t need them!” Next thing I expect to see is “All I need is this lamp!”

SHOOOOOOOT IT!!!! Anon

by burpchelischili on Jul 4, 2009 6:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe not detroit

but grand rapids delusionally likes to believe that they are the home of the red wings, and I must say that it is almost scary to see how some of the wing fans have been acting as of late. its almost like they shut down, a mixed emotion of depression and quiet rage. I believe that if they possessed a hint of logic they would realize that their season next year is looking grim, but alas they dont so they just continue on saying things like “we will get them next year”

also on a completely unrelated note, is it wrong if i wanted to punch some kid in the face for wearing a sidney crosby shirt? Im sorry but it really disturbed me to see a blown up print of cindy’s face peering out at me with fat lips…

by DancingPuck on Jul 6, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a friend who lives there.

Less than 2 minutes after my facebook status said something about Hossa to the hawks she was calling me. Her family moved there from the city just before she was born so they’re all Hawks fans. Her first words were “oh my god I can’t wait to shove this in everyones’ faces.”

Of course all the people there say things like that. All they know about the Wings is that guys in red put puck in net and score goal.

twitter.com/kaner88

by Original Six on Jul 6, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Regarding these cap issues, I seriously get two strong senses of what came out of Tallon and the Bowmans’ meetings this year. First, that the WCF appearance, unexpected though it was, made a Cup appearance next year that much more tangible, so strapping ourselves cap-wise for a year might well be worth the risk. Second, and related to this, I wonder if their long term plans really include all three, especially considering Seabrook will be a due a fairly significant raise as well soon.

Toews and Keith are no-brainers; they’ll be signed at all costs. Kane, though? On the McDonough side of things, Kane is the marketing doll, obviously; but I wonder if that managerial meeting had him evaluated as highly on the hockey side. I’m not questioning his talent here, I’m wondering if in the cap world there is really room for so many market-value contracts on this team. The answer is no, I’d say. And so among all these blue chips, and considering we just signed a franchise right-winger in Hossa to a long-term “value” contract … well, of Toews, Kane, Keith, and Seabrook … who is the odd man out for whom we’d have no room???

by ChicoMaki on Jul 3, 2009 4:00 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

So long as Toews and Keith take fair value contracts (and likely Hossa type length deals) I think it could down to keeping Kane and dealing Sharpie and Buff in straight salary dumps. Losing Kane would definitely hurt considering he’s one of the few true play-makers on this team with JHC gone. Hopefully he takes a step forward defensively this year.

by Crease Monkey on Jul 3, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That last sentence … I’ll be crossing my fingers through the length of the entire summer.

by ChicoMaki on Jul 3, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kane a play maker?

Sorry, I disagree with that. Point maker, no doubt, but I don’t see him creating plays for anyone other than himself.

If I can't be a good example, I'll just be a horrible warning

by Trixietrx on Jul 3, 2009 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who left?

I’m starting to wonder if it was Kane that left via FA, not Havlat?
C’mon Kaner is staying put and for a long time. If anything due to his lackluster performance in the playoffs it would be Keith the odd-man out in Chicago. Sure he is a +30 plus during the regular season but he obviously seemed lost at times during the playoffs and his give away in Game 4 in OT-nonetheless- vs. the Nucks could have sealed the Hawks fate earlier then the WCF. In actuality, Campbell was easily the Hawks best defender in the 2nd round and possess much more offence from the blueline. Keith, let’s not forget, now has a history of concussion problems to think about. So a long-term contract to player with a history of post-concussion syndrome sickness may be in the eyes of mangement a little risky.
Make no mistake I love Duncan Keith just like everyone else and continue to plug this guy as a Norris Trophy canidate but in the end if its all about the benjamin$$$ and long-term contracts it may be Keith the odd-man out that’s all.

It's never about the eventual destination, but rather the long journey and its challenging obstacles that are presented and what it takes to overcome them, that makes the taste of success all the more worthwhile!!!

by hawks61 on Jul 3, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looking at his assist totals

I’m not sure I would agree with that. Kid has amazing hands, and vision that a peeping tom would kill for. Kid’s a playmaker in my book.

by AirTrafficAJ on Jul 4, 2009 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you can't be serious

and if you are….please see

Sharp’s goal from Kaner in Game 2 against Calgary

Bolland’s goal from Kaner in Game 5 against Vancouver

I see Kane being somewhat like Havlat in the fact that his assist numbers will usually be greater than his goal numbers……..in contrast to Hossa, Sharp, and probably Toews. That isn’t a knock on either group of players. Fact of the matter is, Kane can/will be able to drop dimes with the best of them.

"If you're scared, go buy a dog" - Stacey King

by hackerar on Jul 6, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A play maker

to me at least, is more than just assists. I’m not bashing on Kane, I gave him an A. I just see room for improvement. He’s only 20, I wouldn’t expect him to be everything already.

If I can't be a good example, I'll just be a horrible warning

by Trixietrx on Jul 6, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree on some points

He definitely has a ton of room for improvement. I was disagreeing with the “but I don’t see him creating plays for anyone other than himself.”

The two examples I cited are great examples of him being a playmaker and creating for others. He definitely can and should become more consistent with this type of play, but it is there in the early stages of his career.

"If you're scared, go buy a dog" - Stacey King

by hackerar on Jul 6, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure

That management would have a meeting and not view PK88 as anything other than a big part of the franchise’s future. Marketing doll, sure, but he’s also shown that he’s one hell of an offensive player who’s only going to get better. I could legitimately see a few guys being shipped out to accomodate a way to keep him long term.

by Hawks82 on Jul 3, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Question on the caps.

I see on Mirtle’s blog that people tend to dislike front loaded contracts. But I don’t understand why. I guess it does help teams with more money, but then again, aren’t those teams then saddled with a larger cap hit later when the player is pretty much useless? Any clarification is appreciated. Insults will be tolerated, but may make me cry.

If I can't be a good example, I'll just be a horrible warning

by Trixietrx on Jul 3, 2009 7:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think their big issue is they feel that it is misusing the collective bargaining agreement by taking it to the letter of the law as opposed to the spirit of the law regarding salary cap hits. Essentially to lower the cap hit on any player all you have to do is tack on a couple years near the league minimum salary, which is the problem I think they have with it. As long as it’s allowed I see no problem with it. The theory is that they will change the way salary cap hits are counted in the next collective bargaining agreement. I’d rather just see them get rid of the salary cap.

http://accordingtwomey.blogspot.com

by hawksfan21 on Jul 4, 2009 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

Since I’m an F1 fan, too, I guess I’m just very used to teams trying to work around the rules. ;)

If I can't be a good example, I'll just be a horrible warning

by Trixietrx on Jul 4, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and Rick Nash

signed his extension @ 8yrs/$62.4 million with the Jackets. The cap hit will be $7.8M

by Crease Monkey on Jul 3, 2009 9:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow, this Kane, Keith, Toews talk

is a little weird given the season has not even started yet. Kane had a stellar year, but how is he, or any of the kids for that matter, going to fit in with what the Hawks are trying to build? Looking at the grabs of Panda, his BFF and Madden, I see the Hawks trying to lay the groundwork for two way game plans. I don’t think that makes Kane odd man out at all, but I do think it means he needs to alter his game a bit and become a more complete player. I realize a lot of people have said that, but this year it might actually make a difference. Last season it was cool enough to go deep in the finals and watch the kids enjoy themselves as they stole game after game they should have lost for the mistakes they made. I don’t think that flies this year.

by NKLHD on Jul 3, 2009 10:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Versteeg is likely traded while Barker is expendable

That is my interpretation of things. And I think it will turn out to be Tallon’s too.

$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.

by BLou on Jul 3, 2009 10:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Read XLR8TOR's Fanpost...

…all 6 RFA’s could be gone for nothing over Tallon’s qualifying offers were not in on time which could potentially make all 6 unrestricted and sign anywhere with the Hawks getting NOTHING in return.

It's never about the eventual destination, but rather the long journey and its challenging obstacles that are presented and what it takes to overcome them, that makes the taste of success all the more worthwhile!!!

by hawks61 on Jul 4, 2009 12:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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