5 on 5 Play

by cdz3210 on Mar 4, 2010 9:32 AM CST

Well, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to get my ass kicked on this one, but does anyone else here find it troubling that the Hawks have just been outscored 7-2 by the Islanders (5-0) and Oilers (2-2) during 5 on 5 play? We're talking the Islanders and Oilers here folks. I know that shaky goaltending and turnovers contributed to this. However, I think that the way the Hawks dominate play, there should be more scoring while playing 5 on 5. While I have only referenced the last two games, this has been going on for awhile. The Hawks are good at playing 4 on 4, and pick up a power play or shorthanded goal every once in awhile, but I just feel these are situations that shouldn't be relied on as a source of scoring.

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Over the course of an 82 game season

there’s going to be ebbs and flows. And weird shit happens in hockey. The more important question is whether or not you feel the team is an inferior 5 on 5 team and if so why? For me the Hawks have had stretches against teams of every caliber where their 5 on 5 play looked like a power play. Local and national commentators have compared the Hawks offensive zone play during 5 on 5 to the Harlem Globetrotters.

I don’t blame you for being concerned when the team isn’t meeting expectations, but over the course of a long season these things happen. Even the Jordan-era Bulls team that went 72-10 lost ten games. On Friday you’ll get to see the Hawks take out all their frustrations on Luongo. That will be fun for the whole family.

by Scott13 on Mar 4, 2010 10:55 AM CST reply actions

As you point out,

the Hawks have played 5 on 5 looking like they’re on a power play against every caliber of team and I agree with the announcers when they say they say the Hawks look like the Globetrotters. The thing that I find so puzzling is when they dominate during these 5 on 5 situations, they don’t seem to score as often as I think they should.
As entertaining as it is to watch, I’d like to see them reap the benefits of their play. (I guess this falls under the “weird shit happens in hockey” line that you wrote.)
Anyway, I guess this is more of an observation that I have made than it is a concern and thanks for not kicking my ass.

Competitive violence, that's why you're here!

by cdz3210 on Mar 4, 2010 12:49 PM CST up reply actions

Don't forget puck possesion

Ignoring your 2 game sample and considering the season as a whole…

Puck possession is a HUGE reason that the Hawks are #1 in the league in:
GAA – 2.30
SOG differential – 9.98 / game
SOG against – 24.22 / game

So basically control the 5 on 5 game, don’t give the other team a chance to score, and take your chances on special teams which are both top 7 in the league. Hawks are overall #2 behind the Sharks in PP/PK scoring differential.

The Hawks are also #1 in SOG (34.21 / game), so not only are they contolling the puck but taking plenty of shots.
Therefore no need to panic and yell “Shoooot!” either ;)

Well, folks, I want to thank you for being here for the recording of my live comedy album. Funny material and laughter will be dubbed in later.

by ChicagoNativeSon on Mar 4, 2010 1:30 PM CST up reply actions

All of your points are valid

I just think that with the way they sometime dominate while playing 5 on 5 that they can score more.

Now this next comment is slightly off-topic and is just an opinion and doesn’t necessarily concern the Hawks, but I don’t equate SOG and the differential to success. Actually IMO the SOG differential can be a good indicator of puck control but really nothing else.

Also, I am not one of those “Shooot” people. I’m more like one of those “what makes you thing that you can get around 4 guys at the blue line, There’s a minute left in the game, just dump the puck” type of guys.

Competitive violence, that's why you're here!

by cdz3210 on Mar 4, 2010 2:54 PM CST up reply actions

Well, the "Shooot!" comment was in jest and definitely not directed at you

Yes, SOG differential can be an indicator of puck control, but I believe the fact that we lead in both SOG and SOGA might suggest a little bit more. Not sure what though, but that’s people like hackerer, cliffkoroll, and chiblackhawks are for! /friendly nudge

Well, folks, I want to thank you for being here for the recording of my live comedy album. Funny material and laughter will be dubbed in later.

by ChicagoNativeSon on Mar 4, 2010 8:30 PM CST up reply actions

or Behind the Net

who already sort of wrote about the topic.

Basic gist, shot differentials (or, more accurately, the ratio of SF/SA) at even strength during tie games are better indicators of success than when a team is leading by one or down by one, which the Blackhawks have found themselves in a few times before.

Their post actually also shows where the Blackhawks stand in terms of shot differentials at even strength during tie games— we’re not actually the strongest, but we’re not that bad either.

But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too."

(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)

by chiblackhawks on Mar 4, 2010 9:55 PM CST up reply actions

Thanks

I knew you’d come through

Well, folks, I want to thank you for being here for the recording of my live comedy album. Funny material and laughter will be dubbed in later.

by ChicagoNativeSon on Mar 5, 2010 12:39 AM CST up reply actions

let's increase the sample size (with numbers!)

Here is my calculation for 5v5 goal differential on the season [GF and GA taken from NHL.com/stats and then I calculated the difference (nhl stats copies well into excel, fyi)]

WSH 63
VAN 31
SJS 29
CHI 21
COL 15
PHX 11
LAK 10
PHI 10
PIT 9
BUF 7
NJD 5
NSH 4
ANA 1
NYR 1
CGY -1
ATL -3
MIN -3
DAL -4
STL -7
TOR -8
FLA -11
OTT -11
BOS -13
DET -14
TBL -14
CAR -15
MTL -19
NYI -20
CBJ -36
EDM -38

So, the Hawks are 4th in the NHL. Washington’s number is scary, take it for what you will.

"In an ideal world I would have all 10 fingers on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching."

by Hack on Mar 4, 2010 11:02 AM CST reply actions

Wow,

Washington is scary good. I’m a bit of a geek when it come to numbers so thanks for the info.

Competitive violence, that's why you're here!

by cdz3210 on Mar 4, 2010 12:53 PM CST up reply actions

paralysis by analysis

Just to add a bit to this. Partially because I’m of the mindset that the team is a little off at 5 on 5. I’m not worried, but it seems they haven’t been able to finish. I have below the 5 on 5 goal difference, listed with the overall difference, and then the difference between the two, then the % of their goals scored that were scored at 5v5 and % allowed, allowed at 5v5.

As you would expect, good teams have a better goal difference overall when compared to 5 on 5. But the Blackhawks have a significantly better overall goal difference when compared to their 5 on 5 goal difference. I’m not sure what this means. I think it shows that they are much better comparatively to other teams in non-5 on 5 situations, whereas teams like Washington, Colorado, and Vancouver to some extent are better than the Hawks at 5 on 5 situations.

Then to reach the paralysis by analysis stage, you can look into % of goals scored. The Blackhawks allow the highest percentage of their goals at 5v5 when compared to other teams. Maybe it just shows that we have a good PK, we don’t take a lot of penalties, and we’re good at 4 on 4. They are pretty much on par with everyone at % of goals scored at 5v5.

My guess, when we play Washington, take a lot of coincidental minors.

Maybe you have a different take?

Team Goal Difference at 5v5 Total Goal Difference Difference % of goals scored at 5 v 5 % of goals allowed at 5 v 5
WSH 63 71 8 67.9 59.4
VAN 31 45 14 63.2 61.5
SJS 29 50 21 63.7 65.6
CHI 21 51 30 65.3 73.6
COL 15 20 5 64.8 63.5
PHX 11 3 -8 70.4 64.8
PHI 10 20 10 58.3 59.3
LAK 10 19 9 64.3 65.6
PIT 9 11 2 69.1 68.3
BUF 7 14 7 68.7 70.4
NJD 5 15 10 65.6 69.0
NSH 4 -4 -8 68.0 64.2
ANA 1 -13 -14 66.5 61.4
NYR 1 -4 -5 66.3 64.1
CGY -1 -1 0 66.0 66.2
ATL -3 -9 -6 69.8 68.1
MIN -3 -3 0 66.1 66.7
DAL -4 -11 -7 66.3 64.5
STL -7 -8 -1 64.8 65.9
TOR -8 -49 -41 74.1 60.7
OTT -11 -5 6 69.1 73.3
FLA -11 -18 -7 65.4 65.0
BOS -13 -7 6 68.3 73.8
TBL -14 -22 -8 63.1 63.2
DET -14 -3 11 62.7 70.1
CAR -15 -21 -6 62.9 63.9
MTL -19 -12 7 60.7 67.4
NYI -20 -35 -15 67.5 65.6
CBJ -36 -31 5 61.7 70.2
EDM -38 -63 -25 69.3 66.7

by Kev623 on Mar 4, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions

It looked so much better the formating before I hit post. Must remember to preview posts.

by Kev623 on Mar 4, 2010 1:19 PM CST up reply actions

Wow,

Washington is scary good. I’m a bit of a geek when it come to numbers so thanks for the info.

Competitive violence, that's why you're here!

by cdz3210 on Mar 4, 2010 12:52 PM CST reply actions

Daily Reply Fail

Competitive violence, that's why you're here!

by cdz3210 on Mar 4, 2010 12:53 PM CST up reply actions

cdz...

so i wasn’t gonna say nething about this post, or anything you have said in the comments… but this reply fail stuff HAS to stop… its just toooo much, lol

fisting barry rozner with every goal!!!

by soupy's spin-o-rama on Mar 4, 2010 1:11 PM CST up reply actions