The coming Hawks Capocalypse
by krome on May 26, 2010 3:27 PM CDT
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PrintWe’ve had a lot of glancing reference or passing mention of the coming Capocalypse the Hawks face this summer in getting a salary cap compliant team for 2010-2011. Here is something to get the discussion going (all figures being derived from http://nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=CHI&season=0910 ):
The following is the set of 2010 – 2011 contracted players (with a few free agents shown as retained at current salary or minimum qualifying offer level to give us 20 bodies for a full roster)
Toews 6.300
Kane 6.300
Hossa 5.233
Sharp 3.900
Bolland 3.375
Versteeg 3.083
Byfuglien 3.000
*Ladd 1.650
Kopecky 1.200
Brouwer 1.025
Dowell 0.525
*Bickell 0.500
Campbell 7.140
Keith 5.550
Seabrook 3.500
Sopel 2.333
*Hjalmersson 0.699
Hendry 0.625
*Niemi 0.868
Huet 5.625
Total Cap hit 63.131
Est. Cap 56.800 (assumes continuation of 2009 – 2010 Cap)
Overage 6.331 million
* Means free agent – the figure represents a resigning at the 2009-2010 salary (which we know is not going to happen with Hjamersson and Niemi)
This assumes no resigning of Madden (2.75), Eager (965k), Burish (725k), Johnsson (5.3) or Boynton (1.5) from the current roster, unless as a replacement for one of the listed bodies.
The line up above is not viable because we’d be way over the Cap. We will need to shed $6.331 million worth of the salaries above PLUS no less than an additional $500,000 per player moved (to allow for replacement of the moved player with another making no less than the NHL minimum wage). The team would also need to clear some additional room to have a realistic chance of resigning Hjalmersson and Niemi, plus a couple of spare bodies, plus a bit extra beyond that as Cap cushion to get them through the tribulations of the new season (recall the I-pass express shuffle silliness with Rockford call ups this year).
For example, moving Versteeg, Byfuglien and Kopecky, and not resigning Ladd – and replacing them with 4 minimum wage players - would bring the Hawks a bit more than a half million under Cap. More than this would have to be shed to allow a reasonable chance of keeping Hjalmersson and Niemi (as well as having a spare body or two under contract).
Moving Huet (with a modest to moderate priced goalie replacement) would help greatly, but who else is going to take him? Note that Toronto already has Guigere at a $6 million Cap hit, and who else is that profligate with funds?
So, my SCH brothers and sisters, there is a brief summary of the Capocalypse conundrum to start the discussion and bloviating.
Note: I edited this 5/27/10 at 8:50 AM to fix the necessary 5% raises to RFAs Hjalmarsson and Niemi
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/covers ears lalalalalalalalala
Actually it’s cool if people want to discuss this now, but I’m not sure if I can take this in addition to all the heart trouble the series is going to give me.
Hjalmarsson scares me the most. He’s the one guy I want to keep most, but he’s probably also due for the biggest raise (if not in $ terms, definitely in %). How much is he going to be worth?
Isn't he an RFA?
I’m likely only getting this half right, but assuming we do our paperwork correctly this year (I know, big assumption) and get him his qualifying offer, don’t they only have to offer him like a 5% raise since he’s over the $660k mark? And if another team offer sheets him, we can match it or get picks in return for letting him go?
I think this is based on last year’s numbers so it could be wrong, but I think the basic idea is correct. It’s why Dunc was making so little this year.
by Katherine215 on May 26, 2010 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I should clarify
He’s done so well this season, it’s pretty likely another team would give him an offer sheet, though. So he likely wouldn’t sign for just 5-10% over his current salary. But again, I’m going on a very basic understanding of RFAs so I could be very inaccurate.
by Katherine215 on May 26, 2010 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, salary knowledge fail on my part
Wow, I really don’t know anything about this. Just looked it up, I think you’re right.
You have the idea down
But in this day and age, Hammer figures to get a reasonably good offer from somewhere – good 23 year Top 4 D players with some solid playoff experience (and, we hope, a Cup ring) are worth a couple or few million a year.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Yeah, that was the idea I was trying to convey
in my 2nd comment. I don’t want to get too far into this before the season’s over, but do you think they just give him the qualifying offer and wait to see what other teams offer or do they negotiate right away?
by Katherine215 on May 26, 2010 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
They might have to be pretty light on the intial offer
given their other pressures
Maybe they try to play some game with a two year deal that’s front loaded, and hope to sign him on an extension next year – it will be interesting in any event.
And with the few days off from games and no Great Goalie Debate to rile everyone up, this seemed a “wonderful” time to toss this lit fuse in there.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
I don't care about this at all until after the season we have with the players we have is over.
Stan can shine his head over this for now.
I have games to watch and the current players are my favorites. They will all be on the team until the horn sounds.
After that, I will dislike any and all players that leave for any reason when they play against my Hawks.
It will all be fine. Hossa says so.
Chewing gum?
"Alex didn't cause Campbell's injury, the boards did."
Sopel, Hendry, and Versteeg or Buff
6 Mil plus.
I couldn’t resist. I do care see.
Chewing gum?
"Alex didn't cause Campbell's injury, the boards did."
alas the Sopel, Hendry & Buf/Versteeg combo
just gets you to your base $6 mil – no replacements & no Hammer & Niemi signings
This is gonna really blow
Confusion will be my epitaph.
by krome on May 26, 2010 5:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Is Skille counted on the cap?
If so he’s around 1.2 Mil correct?
Chewing gum?
"Alex didn't cause Campbell's injury, the boards did."
Skille is an RFA this summer
If he had been up for this season, he would have been a 1.275 Cap hit (0.850 base plus 0.425 bonus).
If we wanted to keep him, he’d need to have a qualifying offer (at not less than $892,500), but I’m assuming he’s gone.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
I printed up the Cap pages
When this is all over, I’ll have some ideas.
It’s bad, but I don’t think it’s too bad.
Chewing gum?
"Alex didn't cause Campbell's injury, the boards did."
I concur on your ultimate assessment
We certainly don’t march into next year apearing to be as strong a team – but if we are good about who we bring in (and what we pay) for the 3rd and 4th line forwards and 5/6 defenders, we’ll be alright.
If Huet could be moved (and be replaced at a moderate level), that would probably allow us to ice a very similarly strong squad (but I don’t count on that happening) – at best, I’d hope for taking one or two of someone else’s overpriced but posibly still moderately productive skaters for Huet.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
This is the nature of the NHL eh?
All teams are in for it, regardless of their current salary situation, they will eventually get to this point.
Chewing gum?
"Alex didn't cause Campbell's injury, the boards did."
they will, or they will have to take the "samll market" approach
and set a lower budget and stick to it – understanding that they will lose out on the most desirable free agents
Confusion will be my epitaph.
there are teams with Cap room
but many are small market teams that deliberately stay below the Cap for their own revenue stream reasons
I think the economic downturn has caught up to the teams so as to end the annual inflation of the Cap – and that might indeed make it less profitable to hit free agant status now and for the next little while
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Exactly
And I don’t think I’d trade the solid base that we have for not having cap issues. It’s kind of an either or situation IMO. Questionable signings happen on every team. No player’s future is guaranteed. There will also always be “holes” in the roster. We don’t have to have the perfect team, just a better one than everyone else, especially come playoff time.
Well, folks, I want to thank you for being here for the recording of my live comedy album. Funny material and laughter will be dubbed in later.
by ChicagoNativeSon on May 27, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions
But
Let’s say we can’t get rid of Huet’s cap hit.
Isn’t there a chance that he can become a better goalie with better coaching and perhaps try for #1 again next year, or am I being delusional?
I don’t hate Niemi, I think he’s strong, but if we’re stuck with Huet’s salary, can he be played?
The sun never sets on a badass
I don't know about the prospects of changing somebody's mental makeup
But he has the talent. And if he gets hot, he can be as good as anybody… I would’ve had faith in him all the same if he was our goalie for this year’s playoffs.
No one would be happier than I to see him play to the level of his salary
I don’t know him – or enough about him – to venture a guess as to whether he can brought around (or whether the fans would allow it to happen – they’ve soured on him and I don’t know if they’ll relent)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
We just can’t afford it…
With Niemi’s play this post season Huet is done in Chicago. Niemi is an RFA and in line for a substantial raise next year. At 27 years old heading into next season, right now he is looking at around 3 – 4 million dollars per year…and that number inches higher with every post season victory (I’m not saying it…I’M NOT SAYING IT!!!!). Sorry about that.
$5.625 Million is WAY too much for a backup everywhere in the league. Except here last year I mean. And this year in the playoffs, kinda sorta. And Toronto, anytime. Maybe we give Brian Burke a call.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
Yeah but that doesn't answer the question
How do you get rid of Huet’s contract? We might not have a choice. If that’s the case, do they have to let Niemi go?
The sun never sets on a badass
I truly get the feeling that Huet will get sent down before we trade away key assets up front.
If we win the Cup, though, it’ll be easier to trade Buff, Versteeg, whoever, for high-grade prospects, and fill the gaps with Beach, Aliu, Makarov…. But if we don’t win the Cup, it will be more difficult to risk filling the gaps made by roster departures with unproven prospects, and I can see Bowman making the much more difficult choice of sending Huet down for the sake of freeing up that salary hit.
www.mjt.org
I thought someone said
he couldn’t be sent down? But I have no idea how that works.
The sun never sets on a badass
Only players with a no-movement clause in their contract can’t be sent down. Anyone else is fair game. It’s not pretty, but I fear it could happen IF the only other option is to move guys like Buff/Versteeg/Sharp without having won the Cup this year.
www.mjt.org
Now let's say Huet was sent down
Is it then possible to make deals at a minor league level involving his contract without effecting the cap?
Well, folks, I want to thank you for being here for the recording of my live comedy album. Funny material and laughter will be dubbed in later.
by ChicagoNativeSon on May 28, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
effecting
affecting
infecting
infection
imperfection
implosion
explosion
Capocalypse
Well, folks, I want to thank you for being here for the recording of my live comedy album. Funny material and laughter will be dubbed in later.
by ChicagoNativeSon on May 28, 2010 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't mind him in Rockford, he would be good in the AHL
He is going to fucking hate it here though, I feel bad for most of the guys that are stuck playing here.
Obviously the point is to be able to get rid of that contract somehow.
but can we trade him at the minor league level?
Well, folks, I want to thank you for being here for the recording of my live comedy album. Funny material and laughter will be dubbed in later.
by ChicagoNativeSon on May 29, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
can we trade him at the minor league level?
Yes you can.
He would still need to go through re-entry waivers on the new team if he came up during that season.
Then next offseason he counts against that teams “summer” cap until the season starts again. That is because he has a one way contract.
Thanks
I guess what I’m digging at is whether or not there is some sort of loophole that could be exploited by dropping him to the minor league level and then either buying out his contract or trading him. Obviously with the trade route, you would still need interested parties. Just looking for possible scenarios that I can call Stan with.
Well, folks, I want to thank you for being here for the recording of my live comedy album. Funny material and laughter will be dubbed in later.
by ChicagoNativeSon on May 29, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
dropping him to the minors doesn't help until the season starts
we have to carry his Cap hit through the summer – the league isn’t entirely stupid (I know, they so often act it that one starts to assume it as a pervasive state of being), they’ve thought of a lot of the good potential end runs (although the Pronger and Hossa long tapering deal seemed to have gotten by them to some degree – although they did cap the amount of taper or jump you can commit to)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Hey hey
No contacting Stan directly.
Everything goes through LeDonne.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
Brian Burke already has Guigere at a $6 mil Cap hit
There really isn’t much place to send him – unless we find someone peddling their own overpayment error players, which doesn’t help our Cap hit (it would merely remove the lump in the goaltending line and move it elsewhere)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
krome...I both share and appreciate your concern…
And earlier in the season prior to the trade deadline I spent WAY too much time analyzing next years cap crisis. I agree with laaarmer’s initial instinct on this one and I am going to thoroughly enjoy the finals before I torture myself any further.
For those of you that can’t resist the urge, the aforementioned
NHLnumbers is great as well as this sleep stealing site most of you probably already know about.
Enjoy!
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
My thoughts
FORWARDS
Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / * Andrew Ladd ($1.550m)
Troy Brouwer ($1.025m) / * Ben Eager ($0.965m) / * Adam Burish ($0.712m)
Colin Fraser ($0.700m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / * Bryan Bickell ($0.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / * Niklas Hjalmarsson ($1.000m)
Shawn Lalonde ($0.800m) / * Jordan Hendry ($0.625m)
GOALTENDERS
Cristobal Huet ($5.625m) / * Antti Niemi ($1.000m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 20; PAYROLL: $56.358m; CAP ROOM: $0.637m BONUSES: $0.195m
Buff, Sopel, Versteeg, and Kopecky traded. No raises for Ladd, Eager, Burish, Bickell, Fraser, and Hendry. Tiny raises to Hammer and Niemi to $1 million each. Lalonde stuck on there just to get a 6th D-man.
If we can’t shed Huet’s at all, we might have to make some tough choices about Sharp/Bolland.
not bad
maybe UFAs Burish & Eager get whacked for some $ cuts so as to free up some more for Hammer & Niemi.
We’d need to see whether LaLonde has bonus money that would go against the Cap – a lot of low draft picks have bonuses structured so as to (at least partially) go against the Cap.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
by krome on May 26, 2010 8:00 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Lalonde does have bonus money
I think the Capgeek number there includes it, it is less than $200,00 anyway. Next year probably won’t have a bonus cushion so we won’t be able to go over the cap with bonuses though.
if bonus money os included in your figure, then that would seem workable
We would be committing oursselves to seeing a fair amount of Hendry and LaLonde ice time though
Thus some of the Cap quandry – where do we accept “downgraded/risky” performace in sheding salary?
Confusion will be my epitaph.
I'd rather torture myself with this for the next three days
then endless analysis and blowhardery related to the upcomng series.
I also like the idea of parking this issue in a fanpost, freeing up the main threads for StarWarsalia etc.
Thank you krome.
I now have a glimmer of understanding of this dreadful spectre.
Questions:
1. When will we know next year’s cap?
2. Any chance we get Huey to take a pay cut? If not, can we get out from under the cap hit by cutting him or sending him to Switzerland?
I will have more questions as the dialogue develops. Thanks again.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
On Huet leaving
He could be bought out – which would carry a $1.825 mil (if I remember right) Cap hit for 4 more years.
If he “retires”, it is my understanding that he could go play in Europe with further no Cap hit to the HAwks
Confusion will be my epitaph.
by krome on May 26, 2010 7:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I suppose I’m a masochist after all.
To answer your question… The NHL does not allow the restructuring of deals. Krome’s #’s are right regarding buying out Huet, but I don’t see that happening cause its 4 years of $1.875 Mill that is wasted. I think it is much more likely Huet is traded with one of the other kids we can’t afford to keep as the kicker in the deal. I just don’t see Bowman eating $1.875 for the next 4 years if the cap only goes up marginally if at all.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
This is my problem
Why is Brian Campbell the highest paid player? 7+ mil? I’d rather see him be traded than just dropping a combo of players.
>
by MadisonMadHatter on May 26, 2010 8:32 PM CDT reply actions
which of the 9 other teams (a) has that kind of Cap room and (b) would like to fill it with Campbell?
I suspect the answer might be along the lines of “Bueller? …. Bueller?”
When Campbell ws signed the Cap was still trending up annually – that doesn’t appear to be the case anymore
Confusion will be my epitaph.
I've come around on Phantom.
I was VERY AGGRAVATED last year at both his performance and performance as related to paycheck.
This year, his performance has gone up markedly, and while his paycheck is still higher than I’d like, I’ve come to understand that at the time it was a defensible move for a number of reasons.
Moving him this off-season will not only be difficult for the reasons krome notes, but also because we’ll have to find someone else who can advance the puck from the back line the way he does, or at least, significantly better than what I’ve seen by our other D-men (not to take anything away from 2 or 7 — but their games do not play to that style).
teaching respect for the Indian, one Red Wing fan at a time.
I think I'm pretty much there too
I like the guy. I like his play.
At $5 million, I’d would not even grumble about his pay, I just cringe a bit at his Cap hit.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
He has the highest cap hit
Keith will actually make the most next year at $8 million with HOssa a close second at $7.9 million. Their hits are so much lower because the organization wised up and added the extra years on the end of their contracts to minimize the hit.
While Campbell’s cap hit is high, he’s really only “overpaid” by about $1.5 million dollars, imo. Would that help us? Yes. But you don’t get a top 4 D man for pennies, and I think his contributions have made a huge difference to this team. Our $2.3 million #5 defenseman and our “third line” wingers in Versteeg and Buff and Bolland to a certain extent are also overpaid. So is our goalie. Campbell is not the only problem.
by Katherine215 on May 26, 2010 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions
There goes Katherine looking at things through her ginger colored glasses again
I kid. I really love Campbell too.
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on May 26, 2010 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions
hah, I admit, I'm biased.
I also like to think I’m fairly accurate in what I said too. People just look at the $7.1 million and don’t realize we’d still need at least $5-5.5 million to replace his skill level. Who’s going to do what he does if he were traded? argh, I’m walking toward my soapbox, so I’ll shut up now.
by Katherine215 on May 26, 2010 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Um,
doesn’t one of laarmers kids play D?
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
by burpchelischili on May 26, 2010 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Bolland was projected as #2 center prior to the back injury
and he seems to be makng steady progress back to that level (offense & face offs may well lag defense when returning from back surgery).
A bit of off season time to continue rehabbing, and Bolland may well be right back to where his salary level sits
Confusion will be my epitaph.
by krome on May 27, 2010 7:12 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Why do you think his faceoffs are lagging so far behind?
I would think it was more like riding a bike, plus innate reaction time. I’m honestly asking, not making a statement.
Well, folks, I want to thank you for being here for the recording of my live comedy album. Funny material and laughter will be dubbed in later.
by ChicagoNativeSon on May 27, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Watch how a center squats to get ready for a faceoff (and the amount of pushing/wrestling), and imagine this with a herniated disc/back surgery
When my lower hernaited disc was acting up, I couldn’t even tie my shoes, much less squat and take on an NHL caliber (and sized/strength) opponent.
There is some physicality in tying up/swatting the other’s stick and or scrumming to win a draw (very few are won perfectly cleanly by pure superior reaction time). Certainly enough to shave 5 or 10 (or 20 or 30) percentage points off the win percentage if the back isn’t fully healed.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
I kind of thought that's what you might reference
thanks for explaining that further.
Well, folks, I want to thank you for being here for the recording of my live comedy album. Funny material and laughter will be dubbed in later.
by ChicagoNativeSon on May 27, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you on Bolland
Right now, he’s not playing at his salary level, but he seems to be going in the right direction.
by Katherine215 on May 27, 2010 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Bolland is earning every penny....
…and considering his recent return from back surgery his play has been nothing short of amazing.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
I agree that he is ... right now (but playoff hockey is a bit different mix)
I also agree that he wasn’t in the early stages of his comback from the surgery.
I have some confidence that he’ll ergain the scoring/face off touch as he continues to comeback.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Those can be waived by the player (but yes, there is that impeding any trade)
anywhere with Cap room to take him isn’t likely to be where he wants to go
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Not to mention how good a player he is
Why would you give up Campbell in order to bring in a cheap 4th line winger? that’s what Rockford is right?
Datsyuk and Zetterberg started as 4th liners. It worked out for them. It teaches them how to play both ways.
You think a kid in Rockford not named Skille is going to balk at a 4th line job in the NHL as opposed to 2nd line in AHL?
Chewing gum?
"Alex didn't cause Campbell's injury, the boards did."
I hope so, and I hope it works out for him
Chewing gum?
"Alex didn't cause Campbell's injury, the boards did."
I do too
and if no one offers him a contract, I wouldn’t mind the Hawks bringing him in at less than $900k too.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Pump up the volume, pump up the volume, pump up the volume
DANCE DANCE!
Everyone dies. It is the only true and lasting justice in life.
I am an addict
Sometimes I steal my neighbors wireless just to get on. Like when I mow the lawn. I have a platform on my mower for the laptop. I can mow and comment all at the same time.
Other times, like when my ISPgoes down or something ( I like when my ISPgoes down) I just shake and wait for my next fix.
Chewing gum?
"Alex didn't cause Campbell's injury, the boards did."
That's not addiction!
That’s just dedication.
by VerStig on May 28, 2010 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
anything really worth doing is worth doing to excess
I tell this to everyone on all of my 12 Step groups
Confusion will be my epitaph.
needs to happen
Also, sort of off topic, but its amazing how many people in Rockford are Ice Hogs only fans. They do not even really watch the NHL.
I do think the Hogs attendance was down this year though, at least at the beginning of the year.
This is what happens....
When a team has tons of good young talent all coming of age at the same time coupled with a few high powered free agent signings to put the team over the top. Something here has got to give. It’s no one player’s hit, or even Tallon’s fault…which would have only bought us more cap space this year anyway; leaving us in the same predicament we are in right now. That’s why I am enjoying this ride and this team and praying we win it all, cause change is a comin’.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
I think ELO said it best....
"Erin go Braugh". What the fuck does that mean?
It's Irish for "you're fucked".
this is why it's a fanpost
descriptive title, easily avoided.
This comment is more annoying than ELO itself.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
It was suggested that this would be an appropriate topic for a fanpost - and I bit on it
I don’t claim to be the infallible Cap expert by any means – but I have read substantial portions of the CBA (not retaining some significant portions, of course, thus the edit) and do follow the concepts tolerably well.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
You are still
FAR beyond me, so… yeah, not saying much, but it is said in a positive tone.
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
by burpchelischili on May 27, 2010 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I rec'd it
because it is a topic some want to discuss, and I am interested in it, and find that a post dedicated to its’ discussion can be very helpful to those interested (me included) without mucking up every other thread here with the same topics repeated over and over again.
Shit, WTF is this blog becoming? This is entirely appropriate for a fanpost and has good information and could have good discussion if those who don’t want to discuss it just stay the fuck away from it.
Can’t fucking post anything anymore without someone bitching.
The sun never sets on a badass
I think it's just a product of our size
Just like how any big organization gets bogged down and its members become unhappy.
To be honest there are some design changes that could be made to the site that would help some of these things (better organization of FanPosts, for example).
But, but...
Oh, nevermind.
Well, folks, I want to thank you for being here for the recording of my live comedy album. Funny material and laughter will be dubbed in later.
by ChicagoNativeSon on May 28, 2010 1:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Whoa there...
You can belittle the comment all you want, but to suggest that ELO is annoying ain’t sitting well with me.
Rock Over London
Rock on Chicago
Diet Pepsi
Uh-Huh!
There's gonna be a Showdown!
Well, folks, I want to thank you for being here for the recording of my live comedy album. Funny material and laughter will be dubbed in later.
by ChicagoNativeSon on May 28, 2010 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Easy folks
All I’m saying is the offseason is the offseason. I think talking about what the Hawks are going to do next year while they’re still playing for the Stanley Cup is a little ridiculous. Are there going to be some tough maneuvering to do once the season is over? Sure there is. All I’m saying is that maybe that should be on the back burner right now so we can enjoy the very rare moment we find ourselves in. I wasn’t trying to belittle Krome by saying this. It’s just my opinion, which by the way I guess I have to clear with cliffkorol before I post.
"Erin go Braugh". What the fuck does that mean?
It's Irish for "you're fucked".
I didn't have a problem with the thread
it is a topic that has come up a lot – and seemed more appropriate for a sidebar discussion like this rather than ‘infesting’ the everyday GDTs and other main page posts
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Wasn't there an article/comment/something about the Cap going UP next year?
I don’t recall if it was Yahoo sports or SI, but I’m pretty sure I saw something about the Cap increasing next year, though I don’t think it was a lot.
And while I agree that this is a worthy fanpost at a worthy time, I’m also wondering if any of our opinions on the various players will change after watching them “shine” during the finals. If Buff keeps up his scoring, if Versteeg goes goal crazy, if ….well, does it matter what anyone does in this next (all-important) series regarding his contract next year? Or his “tradeability?” Will a player move to the “we can’t do without him” column if he lights it up in the next 4-7 games?
Methinks this discussion will be going on for a while.
I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
Just reaching the finals....
Has boosted every player’s stock on this team and their subsequent value in trade / contract negotiations. For the unsigned players deemed those that we “can’t live without” it means bucking up to keep them. For the one’s we just can’t afford to keep it means high return in trade. It’s hard to think so now, but it’s a good problem to have.
This is a great fanpost though, and admittedly has calmed me down instead of freaking out about the Finals for the whole week. Hard as I try to stay away…it IS intriguing, and will only get more so.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
I thought it might be good "filler" for the game gap this week
And it does seem that there is not a total disaster coming, not by any means
We’ll need to move some guys we’ve come to like (even if we sometimes also hate some of them now and then), and new faces will appear and have an opportunity to play – the conumdrum of the known versus the unknown.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
I have heard several rumors of a small increase (and a couple of a small decrease) - so I assumed a static condition
any change we get figures to be relatively minor. If it is an increase, then I would assume it would all be consumed in the efforts to resign Hjalmersson and Niemi, and just take some of the pressuure off of dumping other salaries and unsing minimum wage filler players at teh lowest line & pairing
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Question...
You read all the time about NFL and NBA players taking pay cuts or re-working their deal to make cap space. Is that allowed in the NHL or does the CBA not allow?
ahhhhhh Bach...
So let's say we do win
does that give us more leverage in securing players who would want to play on a cup winning team possibly for less money?
The sun never sets on a badass
Why are we even worrying about this? I've heard more nat'l media attention about this. Please people. We are 4 wins from the Cup. We can suck after that, haha.
Derrick Rose will lead us back to the promise land.
Give me Larry Brown as the Bulls coach!!!!!!
Brent Sopel Fan Club member.
Laddddddddyyyyyyyyyyyy
we're not going to suck
after anything.
Loose depth, restock our minor league system through the trades we need to make, shed a few bad contracts and come back stronger than we are now in 3-4 years time.
In the meantime, we’ll still be a very, very good team. Heck, Kyle Beach might become twice the player Buff is.
No I know. We will be solid. I guarantee Top 4 in the West next year.
But what I meant is let’s get the Cup. We haven’t had one since ‘61 obviously and if we don’t get one for 3 more years after this I’ll be OK. Seriously though San Jose is going to lose Marleau, Nabby, Calgary who didn’t even make the post is reloading, Vancouver is going to shuffle and Detroit is old. Calm down everyone. Oh and Dowell, Beach, Bickell, etc
Derrick Rose will lead us back to the promise land.
Give me Larry Brown as the Bulls coach!!!!!!
Brent Sopel Fan Club member.
Laddddddddyyyyyyyyyyyy
Detroit's old guard is old
But they have some pretty good young players too. The ones that gave us fits when we played them this year before they got healthy. I’d watch out for Detroit and Nashville to be tough division opponents next year.
Who's not calm?
There are things I still don’t understand about the cap, so a lot of this is good information to help me understand what is going to happen.
The sun never sets on a badass
My penny's worth
The Cap is supposed to go up $2 mil. Trade Buff and Bolland, find a way to send Huet to the minors or Europe that will free up another $12 million. Besides their salaries, the reason I’ve picked Buff and Bolland is that I don’t think they are a big part of the chemistry of this team. I’d rather keep Bolland but I’m thinking that dumping his $3.375 mil hit over the 4 years is too long of a commitment. I’d rather use the money to lock up Seabrook who becomes an RFA at the end of next season
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
not sure I'd like to
see Bolland go. It might be necessary, but I’d much rather keep him than Steegs.
Buy Out
I look for the Hawks to “Buy out” Huet’s contract. It sucks because that means Huet will be on the books for 4 more years for a buy out procedure, but his hit for the next 2 (his remaining contract years) would be just 1.875 mil.
This is from CapGeek.com
So, a Huet buy out frees up just under 4 mil of space for 10-11, 11-12, but adds 1.875mil for 12-13, 13-14 season…
Assume a $2 million Cap increase & a Huet buyout basically leaves us at a wash, with his $5 mill and change freed up
that would pay for the impending raises to Hammer and Niemi and get us a serviceable back up goalie to Niemi
we would still have a lot of other deft machinations needed to ice a team that gives us a similar strength to this year
Confusion will be my epitaph.
deft machinations?
somebody make sure LeDonne is brought in on this, stat.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
by cliffkoroll on May 29, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
a Huet buy out frees up just under 4 mil of space for 10-11, 11-12, but adds 1.875mil for 12-13, 13-14
I don’t think they will buy out Huet’s contract at this point. It is 6 cents on the dollar in actual costs to buy out Huet but it is a full salary cap hit extended over 4 years. So if he is bought out it is like a 2.8M/per hit for 4 years.
If he gets sent to the minors it is only a 1.5 Cap hit/per for two years. Of course you are paying his full salary that way.
Personally, I think they will package Huet with another player like Versteeg. Then take back a ~3/4M dead weight contract. They can then put that contract in the minors. That would only be a ~750K to 1.M cap hit per year. Doing it that way is cheaper in real dollars wasted and a lower cap hit.
A Huet buyout is "only" $1.8 (and change) million Cap hit per year (over each of 4 years)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
seems to me cap hit trumps cash cost
I don’t have access to the Hawks’ books, but a few million in additional cash to get a better cap result strikes me as an excellent financial move for this team.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
If they have the cash to spare (and they ought to somewhere) - having Huet down there might have some advantages
Huet could work out his issues (if they’re workable) there, he’s be available for emergency call up if there is a short term injury to Niemi or the new guy, and he would be able to be traded elsewhere if someone else had a massive/catostrophic goalie injury and was desperate (maybe a team in this regular season’s Philadelphia goalie injury straights – but with the Cap room to do it). I do understand that trading him from the minors would still have him subject to clearing waivers to be called up – but I suspect he would (and in any event, we’d be rid of him)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
all i'm saying
is that the business opportunity in this town has got to be measured in tens of millions of dollars at least.
if they have the cash to spare? Dude, Bill Wirtz is in a grave (I like to think at about 400 RPM at the mention of throwing millions at the Bonnie situation to make it go away.)
I like Huey- but this contract is an albatross.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
Re-entry waivers
Just a point of confusion for me. If we send him down, to call him up he would go through re-entry waivers. Isn’t it if a team claims a player on re-entry waivers, they only pay half and the team that had him before pay half and both get half the cap hit? Or is it they wouldn’t be able to send him down again or something?
If it is the first way, doesn’t that mean that once we send him down, he’s basically done? I think at 2.8/year, someone would claim him? Maybe I’m wrong.
once we send him down, he’s basically done?
I think if you send him down he is going to be down until the next summer. The Hawks wouldn’t have the cap space to bring him back even if he did clear waivers.
But yes, to your question, I think he would get claimed if somebody only has to pay half his salary. That is why I think he is tradeable BTW. If you are willing to take back another dead weight contract around half to 60% of his.
That's the bad news ...
The good news is that no matter who goes we are guaranteed a core group of Hossa, Toews, Kane, and Keith playing together for at least the next five years. I realize that we probably won’t be as good next year as we are this year, but shedding a few fan favorites or favorite whipping boys that have been critical to this cup run isn’t going to to change the fact that we have good hockey for years to come.
To address the call of the post more specifically, I’d do whatever it took to keep Hammer and Seabrook before I kept any of the forwards.
by Billy Charlesbois on May 29, 2010 1:20 PM CDT reply actions
We may also replece those who depart with some comparable performing people
we’re dithering over the loss of the known against the acquisition of the unknown – that is frequently scarier than the reality works out to be
Confusion will be my epitaph.
And no matter who goes this off season ...
I think this team is going to be rembered fondly by Hawks’ fans for years to come.
by Billy Charlesbois on May 29, 2010 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
And everyone lived happily ever after
The End
(See what I did there, laaarmer? I know you’re lurking around in here)
Well, folks, I want to thank you for being here for the recording of my live comedy album. Funny material and laughter will be dubbed in later.
by ChicagoNativeSon on May 31, 2010 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe a stupid question
But I’m new to the NHL cap (my expertise lays with the NBA cap); what happens if the team just doesn’t get under the cap? Is there a luxury tax like penalty in the NBA, or does the league not schedule them or what…? Thanks.
I found my answer
Teams found to have violated the cap face fines of up to $5 million, cancellation of contracts, loss of draft picks, loss of points and/or forfeiture of game(s) determined to have been affected by the violation of the cap.
In the words of Pete Venkman:
Right. That’s bad. Okay. All right. Important safety tip. Thanks, Egon.
by milesgmsu1 on May 31, 2010 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I changed my mind because it's mine
Capologists please answer these question.
How much savings toward the cap is there if they buyout Sopel and Huet?
Sopel is actually worth something and may be able to be traded. You never know. Toronto maybe. I like the guy and all but Hammer and Hendry are just easier to watch.
Chewing gum?
"Alex didn't cause Campbell's injury, the boards did."
Huet would cost us $1.875 Cap hit for each of the next 4 years - from a current $5.625 salary & Cap hit
Sopel only has one year left – and that is at $2 million (he has a $2.333 million Cap hit – from the two earlier, higher paid years).
A buyout doesn’t seem to make too much sense there: 2/3 of remaining pay ($1.333 million) over 2 years – gives 2 years of $667k Salary cap hit (and we’d probably have to pay all of the savings or more for a comparable replacement)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
you know who costs $1.875m per year (but for the next two years instead of 4?)
Tomas Fucking Holmstrom.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too."
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jun 4, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
The headline was misleading
I thought they confused Holmstrom with Bertuzzi:
Red Wings Lock Up Tomas Holmstrom For 2 More Years
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