So Long, And Thanks For All The Fish
We knew it was going to happen, and the components were not a shock, but still, two weeks after a Stanley Cup victory, losing three key contributors from the roster can be jarring. From all reports, Stan Bowman has completed a deal to send Dustin Byfuglien, Brent Sopel, Ben Eager, and Akim Aliu to Atlanta for Marty Reasoner, prospect Jeremy Morin, and the 24th and 54th picks in Friday's draft.
Everyone knew that the Hawks needed to jettison some salary coming into 10-11, and Buff, Sharp, Versteeg, and Ladd were the prime candidates among the already crowded corps of forwards. Buff made himself the most expendable by underperforming during the past two regular seasons, and that he was (occasionally) a force during the playoffs this year allowed Bowman to sell high. Additionally, the Hawks have Kyle Beach ready to make a grab at a roster spot, and he's younger and cheaper, something the Hawks need to become. In trading Sopel, the Hawks do lose a very valuable penalty killer, but the fact of the matter is that his $2.2 cap hit is just too much for a #5 defenseman even on a team without cap woes. Eager is a restricted free agent, and Bryan Bickell seems primed to step into that role at a discounted rate after performing admirably when he had the opportunity this year. That Aliu was thrown in is not only an endorsement of Beach as they both do effectively the same thing, but also damning of Aliu, as he had regressed in his development and spent much of the year in the ECHL. He may pan out in the long run, but he's someone else's headcase for right now.
The lone roster player coming back is Marty Reasoner, a career serviceable 4th line centerman with a very friendly cap hit of $1.15 million, and he's likely to replace John Madden on that line. Morin had 40 goals in the OHL last season, so he's got a scorer's touch, but he's still likely a couple years away, which is obviously fine. Getting the picks was a real coup for Stan though, as that's what he was rumored to be asking for for Buff - a first rounder and a prospect, and that's what he got, and he was able to shed even more salaries with the other bodies involved as well. Keep in mind too, that those two picks are those that the Thrash received for Ilya Kovalchuk back in March, so they had house money in the draft to play with. That Atlanta GM Rick Dudley worked here for 5 years with Bowman made this an ideal match on all fronts, and it's easy to see why a deal got done.
My initial take on this is that this is a fantastic deal by Bowman. While no one can coach Byfuglien's size, the fact of the matter is that there are far more willing wingers on this team to go to the net in most situations, and all of them are more mobile than Buff. While yes, he has been a playoff "killer", keep in mind he did that killing against very inferior defensive corps in Vancouver and San Jose. The instant someone with as equal skill wants it more than Buff, he disappears, as evidenced by Games 1-4 of the finals, and pretty much every regular season game. I'll be thankful for his contributions, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. As far as what ramifications this move has, it appears that the Hawks will now be able to qualify Andrew Ladd, one of the aforementioned willing wingers, who's only due a slight raise from his $1.6 hit. This also all but seals John Madden's exit, which is fine, as we all knew he was likely a one-year and done guy with the Hawks last July. It also makes Patrick Sharp even less likely to be moved, and it appears they're going to commit to him as the full-time #2 center. I'd still prefer a bona-fide second line center for he and Hossa, but that might not be doable given the fiduciary bind the Hawks are in, unless something really creative happens. Kris Versteeg can breathe a little easier as well, though if I were him I wouldn't go buying any lakefront property just yet. There's still more money to be shed, and losing guys like Burish or Fraser won't bring enough of a relief. Don't think for a second that this is the last move of the off-season, but as of right now, the Hawks got a very good return on some moveable assets, and didn't hurt their chances at a Cup defense, which is all that we can ask of the man named after the Chalice. Stan Bowman gets high marks from me on this one.
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I knew the team was going to break up
I didn’t think I’d be most broken up at losing Sopel – not because of his play, but because he’s just so awesome as a person. I’ll definitely miss all three, but teams need to keep moving or die stagnant.
Is Beach really ready to grab a roster spot? I was under the impression that he was still a year or two from making the leap.
i agree...
i think the sops thing is the worst. I could really care less about buff going, he only really showed up in the playoffs and on the west coast. i am also completly confident in ladder or brouwer taking his place and doing as good if not a better job then he did for a lot less money. we got that 5 mill sal. dump we needed and got some draft pics back for it. which will be good and help us rebuild for the future
fisting barry rozner with every goal!!!
by soupy's spin-o-rama on Jun 23, 2010 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions
what's up soupy?
we were just all talking about what happened to you today – how’s arizona?
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
Az. is good
100 plus degrees and sunny every day. got sun posioning, it takes a little time to get used to the sun and heat here. u know, cried and ran a muck all across phx when the hawks won, got center glass tickets to the 2 hawks games down here, and thinking of getting season tickets so i can get my hockey fix.
fisting barry rozner with every goal!!!
by soupy's spin-o-rama on Jun 23, 2010 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions
lol... nope
140 a ticket
fisting barry rozner with every goal!!!
by soupy's spin-o-rama on Jun 23, 2010 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
so we weren't really that far off
next thing we know, we’ll be graced by a snake-throwing ‘Yotes fan named shane’s amazing-Doanface
lol...
no i will always be a hawks fan, and will keep my sig. but i wouldn’t mind throwing a snake at some point. i might go to the game against the wings just so i can. lol
fisting barry rozner with every goal!!!
by soupy's spin-o-rama on Jun 23, 2010 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Glad you are having a good time (minus the sun poisoning)
I said the Coyotes probably brainwashed you into wanting to “throw the snake”.
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
lol not yet...
but the really annoying thing about this city, is for a city that says the LOVE hockey and want to keep a team here, u can’t find a single piece of hockey equipment newhere, its super annoying.
fisting barry rozner with every goal!!!
by soupy's spin-o-rama on Jun 23, 2010 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions
well it's not like you can wait till winter & then play pond hockey
you have to go to a rink, so they probably only sell that stuff at sports stores or ice rinks.
i went to like 5 sport stores...
plus roller hockey exsist, or atleast i thought so
fisting barry rozner with every goal!!!
by soupy's spin-o-rama on Jun 23, 2010 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I was just going to ask about roller hockey
maybe too hot for that there?
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
who told you that?
I didn’t think Arizona had enough paved areas for that.
or maybe I’m confusing it with New Mexico…
its good...
hows the chi? hows the crazy t-storms and what not
fisting barry rozner with every goal!!!
by soupy's spin-o-rama on Jun 23, 2010 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
crazy cloud bursts aside
it’s pretty much the same. Although the number of males attending meetups has dropped significantly since you & BigC moved.
you know, tornado warnings, street flooding
it’s about that time of year
by puppetmasterp on Jun 24, 2010 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions
As to Sopes, McClure nails it
his $2.2 cap hit is just too much for a #5 defenseman even on a team without cap woes
I’d love me some Sopes staying if he was at 1.something, but alas.
Our Cup.
we'll
find out about Beach’s readiness soon. If he can keep a level head and stay out of the penalty box, he could be a pretty solid rookie next year.
I've been reading..
Fifth Feathers minor league reports throughout the season and it sure seems like it.
Anybody else get the feeling
that the secondary purpose for Sopes was to get Hammer up to speed? Seems like Hammer became a man during the finals under the influence of Sopes.
funny
it seemed to me that Hammer was the guy who got Soupy up to speed.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
by cliffkoroll on Jun 24, 2010 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions
nah I got it
I was suggesting that Hammer’s manhood came much earlier.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
I know that’s the “popular” version of what went on there. And a lot of people like to believe that. I wish I could, but I was “there”. I wasn’t here in a class room, hoping I was right, thinking about it. I was up to my knees in rice paddies, with guns that didn’t work! Going in there, looking for Charlie, slugging it out with him; while pussies like you were back here partying, putting headbands on, doing drugs, and listening to the goddamn Beatle albums! Oh! Oh! Oh!
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
I think so
and he was pretty darn good at a lot of points during the regular season tihs year too. Hjammer is a good complement for Soupy, I think they’ve probably learned from and played off each other.
by Katherine215 on Jun 24, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Love the move!
Buff as said here many times is a part-time player and for sure not worth 3 mil in today’s game. Love Sopel beyond belief. Such a tough player, leader, etc but just like Madden we gained a lot of leadership with our long run this year. Eager was frustrating and never lived up to his potential. Having with stacking picks and yes I do see more movies. Steeger, hopefully Huet and probably one other minor deal. Regardless the core is intact and we will be right there again. I don’t see Beach just yet and frankly couldn’t we bring back Frasor for cheap and that would allow us to keep Kyle down at Rockford? Hope so.
----2010 MOTHERFUCKIN' STANLEY CUP CHAMPS, CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS!----
Derrick Rose will lead us back to the promise land.
Tommy T is a defensive wiz!
#5 Brent Sopel Fan Club member.
Laddddddddyyyyyyyyyyyy
Awww
So was Buff the big fat dolphin to our favorite fish? At least it looks like we’re keeping the rat.
Anyone got the cap analysis after these moves?
How much did we clear? How much more to go? I’m thinking Versteeg is next on the trade block.
The Chicago Blackhawks -- 2010 Stanley Cup Champions!!!!!!
"I can't stop crying and laughing." Preacher
bingo.
I think/hope he’s next, andd the rumor is that the islanders are interested
by blackhawkeyes on Jun 23, 2010 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions
They have close to 6 million in cap space
but only have 13 players signed.
Here’s some more info from Capgeek website
http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=11
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
he's leaving as assistant coach
to become assistant coach? I wonder why he’d be interested in a lateral move.
especially with a team
not likely to make another Cup run! Torch, I’m disappointed in you.
by Katherine215 on Jun 23, 2010 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Atlanta Thrashers
have now become Chicago Blackhawks South East
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
and here we were all convinced it would be Florida
but with an ex-assistant GM it’s not so far off, huh? maybe somebody really is working on that “use another team as your farm team” approach, behind the scenes
Old man...
Chili too!
Compadres! It is imperative that we crush the freedom fighters before the start of the rainy season......And by that I mean it’s time for the worker of the week award!"
by HjammerTime on Jun 23, 2010 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Those Florida/Altlanta battles
may now be worth paying attention to. Time to re-up the Centre Ice package.
"It's the Chicago Blackhawks, man." - Jeremy Roenick
by The Fearless Freep on Jun 24, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah that is odd
though i was right in thinking that Torch would be heading to the ATL after the trade today, but not exactly what i was expecting
by puppetmasterp on Jun 24, 2010 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions
wow!
Well, at least he got to take one very large piece of his power play with him…
But for all the crap we gave him, I’m pretty sure Torch made a huge contribution to our success just the same. He will be missed as well.
we shall see
make sure to pack the clown shoes.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
by cliffkoroll on Jun 24, 2010 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions
interestingly enough
the atlanta board thinks torch is a side deal to the buff deal
http://www.birdwatchersanonymous.com/2010/6/23/1533616/will-craig-ramsey-be-next#storyjump
thats what i dont get
this move makes no sense to me other than that he wants to be around rick dudley
forgive me if my alzheimers is acting up
but isnt that way higher than it was projected to go up?
CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS-2010 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
there was talk it would go up $2M
but it went up a little more
by Katherine215 on Jun 23, 2010 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions
It's cool when winning teams sell assets at highest perceived value
especially for youth and draft picks. Bodes well for the team’s future when the GM is pruning and re-shaping. I’d be happy if I were a Hawks fan.
by flyersfaninchicago on Jun 23, 2010 11:30 PM CDT reply actions
This trade isn't bothering me nearly as much as I thought it would.
OK, I thought ANY trade would bother me a lot, but this one isn’t killing me inside. Though I really did like Buff. I think Eager and Sopes are easy to replace.
It’s the next trade that will probably get to me. And if it’s just to dump salary I’d expect it to be Steeger, though I think we’ll miss his great hands. And you just know that he’ll be dumping the puck in all the time for his next team.
The Chicago Blackhawks -- 2010 Stanley Cup Champions!!!!!!
"I can't stop crying and laughing." Preacher
RFA's...
Let’s get Nemo and TOFTBO locked up long term on the relative cheap. But more important, let’s hope Stan isn’t too short sighted with the signings.
To me there is no player that’s an RFA/UFA right now that is more important that Biscuit’s RFA year next year. Let’s make the moves to ensure we can lock him up long term next year while still being able to defend our crown effectively.
by Stan Mikita's Donuts on Jun 23, 2010 11:48 PM CDT reply actions
I'm with you on that one ...
I know it’s a ways out and there are already enough balls in the air as it is, but I think they should definitely have that on their minds when they are making moves this offseason. Having Keith, Campbell, Seabrook, and Hjalmmerson locked up means having one of the most versitle defenses in the league. I think that is much more important than say, re-signing Ladd or clinging onto Versteeg for another up and down year.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jun 24, 2010 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m a Sopes fan for life. Nothing but the best for you in life.
by aeroplane on Jun 24, 2010 12:04 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
same here. and may i add that if ANYONE deserves to have a really hot wife, I have to say it’s him.
by puppetmasterp on Jun 24, 2010 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm surprised that's the move that upsets me most
I know it makes sense, but it stings a little. I hate this time of year.
The sun never sets on a badass
Same here
While Sopel can be frustrating at time, he’s a major part of why the PK has been so good. Add to that the fact that he’s just good people, and I’m sad to see him go.
I will miss Buff somewhat, but I won’t miss the frustration of his regular season performance. And while I’ll miss making Sesame Street jokes, I won’t miss Eager’s time in the sin bin for stupid crap, and I definitely won’t miss watching him call the opposing teams’ players faggots when he gets riled. :P
No more
Eager SMASH. That’s all I’m sad about with Eager, especially after the things you listed that had receded in my memory
by Katherine215 on Jun 24, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
I will just remember
his pretty playoff goal (and the Eager SMASH, i suppose, that was fun to watch).
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark
"Hitchikers guide to the Galaxy" shout out.
Maybe we can use an improbability drive to fix the rest of our cap woes. McClure, You’re turning into a penguin. Stop it! Anyone who has not read this book, should do so now. And no the movie DOES NOT do this book any justice. Anyway, congrats Dunc. Thank you, and good luck, Buff, Sopes, and Eager. Stan, So far so good on turning chicken shit into chicken soup.
by alive again on madison on Jun 24, 2010 12:12 AM CDT reply actions
Space is Big.
Really, Really Big. If you thought the trip to the corner chemist was a long way, well that’s nothing comapred to Space. You just wont believe how Big Space is.
by northernsails on Jun 24, 2010 1:23 AM CDT up reply actions
That line just drips with its English worldview.
Italian beefs >> Cheesesteak
Regardless of the Series outcome, Chicago dominates on the important points.
oh god! I'm watching Blazing Saddles
“Scuse me while I whip dis out”
So effing funny!
by northernsails on Jun 24, 2010 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions
but Owen Wilson had a similar line in Armageddon
something like “Yeah, we’re in space. But we’re not even in outer space yet.”
Also Bill Bryson’s “A Short History of Nearly Everything” is an amazing layman’s take on the history of science, which includes a couple of pages that put the whole notion of the size of Space into perspective.
Too much fucking perspective, some may say.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
What makes the line from Hitchhiker’s so English is the comment that “you thought the trip to the corner chemist was a long way,” because it’s so true. Distances in Britain are tiny, and they are universally considered huge. “Oh, God,” they’ll say, “you want to had to drive from London to Nottingham? Why, that’s almost two hours! I certainly hope you didn’t have to go on a Sunday.”
I’ve read Bryson’s book. It’s very good, probably the best popular history of science.
Italian beefs >> Cheesesteak
Regardless of the Series outcome, Chicago dominates on the important points.
Actually, two hours is also a long time
for people on the east coast. Well, on weekends anyway. The rest of the time that’s the norm because of the traffic.
The East Coasters I knew in Britain thought the British were ridiculous, so I think there is some difference.
Italian beefs >> Cheesesteak
Regardless of the Series outcome, Chicago dominates on the important points.
I read a saying somewhere
“Americans think 100 years is a long time, the British think 100 miles is a long distance.”
I’m probably mangling it, but you get the gist
I know
just looking for somewhere to plant the Owen Wilson and Bryson stuff, and your comment seemed like a good place.
I agree with the quintessential Englishness. I mean, chemist; that shit is just precious.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
I’m glad you did make that comment. Bryson’s a genius. Have you read Notes form a Small Island? I don’t know if it’s funny if you haven’t traveled/lived in England, but that book is like a window into British idiosyncrasies.
I've recommended "Notes form a Small Island"
to friends and the people that liked it had been to England. “Mother Tongue” is another book by Bryson that I’d recommend to anyone who has spent time in England.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
Hear, hear
Any and all of Bryson’s stuff is fucking awesome.
Just bought The Lost Continent (more Americana-ish) for my dad for Father’s Day, and by Tuesday, I’m like “Finished yet? Cuz I haven’t read that one yet.”
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
also...the title of the thread
is, i think, the fifth book in the Hitchhiker series.
by northernsails on Jun 24, 2010 1:38 AM CDT up reply actions
First time posting
But found it humorous that on the the Thrashers site they cited Eager as: Ben Eaves.
um....am i the only one
who thinks that sounds like a porn star screen name?
by puppetmasterp on Jun 24, 2010 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe a FAILED porn star.
I mean, who’d want to do a scene with the guy?
The Chicago Blackhawks -- 2010 Stanley Cup Champions!!!!!!
"I can't stop crying and laughing." Preacher
by Preacher000 on Jun 24, 2010 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I got Crabbs
…but think of the potential double entendres!?!
I’m sure there’s a market somewhere for itchy junk porn.
Schadenfreude ist die schönste Freude (denn sie kommt von Herzen)
I got Crabbs
Oduya?
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Jun 24, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Joey Crabb might be a porn star
He has played with the Chicago Wolves (cups of coffee with the Thrashers also) for about the last 3-4 years. My daughter says he’s a bad boy and she also says he’s kind of hot.
LUigi was found dead at the scene, murdered by a Chelsea Dagger.
5.5 Quake
So I didn’t see it in any other threads with all of the trade talk, but Ottawa got hit with a 5.5 quake today. Anyone know if the Senators organization and buildings are all good? Would be a big shame if it hurt them in any way =\
by ForAllYouYoungHockeyMoms on Jun 24, 2010 12:23 AM CDT reply actions
Haven't heard anything
And a 5.5 isn’t that bad. One about that size hit Northern Mexico/San Diego last week and there was little to no damage
by shinkicker on Jun 24, 2010 6:58 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
We just had one here not long ago.
A little west of Geneva, 4 .8 I think but could be wrong. Freaked the crap out of me at first, couldn’t sleep so was laying on the couch watching TV at 3:00 in the morning.
I've slept through more earthquakes than I've been awake for
But I’m from the San Francisco suburbs, “retrofit” was a vocabulary word in the 3rd grade.
by shinkicker on Jun 24, 2010 9:20 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
remembering that Ricter Scale is an exponential scale - 5.5 is not bad
An 8 is 10 times worse than a 7
A 7 is 10 times worse than a 6
A 6 is 10 times worse than a 5
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
my mirror was shaking
here in nYc. Live in a rather old building, so for a second I thought the structure had finally given up and was more than happy to fail.
i've slept through 2 earthquakes this year
and barely missed witnessing a major volcano eruption. im good for the rest of the year….i hope.
by puppetmasterp on Jun 24, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Everything is fine here in Ottawa.
Cumberland was the worst hit of all areas but nothing substantial.
It definitely was a weird feeling that’s for sure.
2010 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS
It's been a long journey but in the end it was all worth it, and I wouldn't have ever changed a thing. The feeling is so surreal, yet so real.
nothing is over
I’ll applaud Stan if he can hold onto Versteeg, which I think means something creative on the Huey sitch.
Delivering all key players other than Buff and Versteeg is not, IMO, a great GM accomplishment.
All others (Nintendo, Nemo) are probably safe at ths point.
Also, good point on Biscuit next year- clearly a core guy.
Douglas Adams is God.
What number is retired by all of MLB?
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
Starting to look to me
after the Frazzle trade, that we may only have to dump one of Ladd and Versteeg. I will be very disappointed if either leaves, but much better than losing both!
There are only 13 players
on the Hawks roster right now and they only have 6 million in Cap Space. I think the Hawks still need to dump about 7-8 million dollars of the current payroll so that can fill out a 21 man roster.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
ugh
now you’re making me feeling like charting this out myself…
Are the numbers on capgeek.com the cap hits for players?
Yes the numbers
are from Capgeek. I put a together an estimated roster of players and salaries. I came up with around 65 million to have 21 players. By the way, the roster isn’t all that pretty.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
VerStig gets sucked in
muahahahahah!
/kicks back, hands behind head, waiting
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
As of right now I feel more like making other people answer the hard questions for me
Like, how much room we should expect to have after bonuses — anyone figure that out yet?
other teams' fans are doing a lot of it for us
the blogger on Jewels from the Crown (Kings site) has put in a lot of work on it, there’s an article up on their main page.
by puppetmasterp on Jun 24, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe I'll stick to statistics
I just discovered that there even bigger stats nerds than I am out there, and they’ve already tried most of the stuff I thought was new, like logistic regressions (which I now think are too obtuse to be of much use).
http://hockeyanalytics.com/
kind of a stats novice
but I just used a logistical regression analysis for a demographic forecast at work.
It was so cool- for a couple days, I knew what it felt like to be VerStig.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
You should take over
I had to learn it to write up that FanPost… and I haven’t touched it since
I should just find a way to quantify the “eye test”
I like the article though
Very concise and very clear (link). Their numbers for re-signing our RFAs look about right. My only complaint is advocating buying out Soupy is idiotic, but short term AND long term.
I’m fairly certain either Ladd or Versteeg is gone. Or if we’re getting something back, maybe both. After that I think the rest of the moves are small, unless we do a trade involving big players.
By my figures
If we were to sign Hammer, Niemi and Ladd each at $2
Burish at 725k (same as last year)
Hendry at 715k (minimum qualifying offer)
Then we would be at 18 players with a -1.422 mil Cap position
We would, realistically, need to clear out about $4 to 5 million more to respectably round out a 22 player roster.
If Versteeg goes, that’s $3 million (of the needed 4 to 5) cleared – less whatever Cap comes back in the trade
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
And those figures don't have any carry over penalty for this year's bonuses
because I can’t find any real, reliable confirmation as to what – if any – that is
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Hmm
Still color me very confused, but we can go over by 10% for now, right? Worst case if we’re still over, we’ll have to dump Huet in Rockford later. But 10% over the cap is what we have to work with for now, is it not?
If the report (below) is correct as to bonuses putting us $3.7 over 2009-2010 Cap
then we’re still needing to clear about $7.5 to 8.5 million to get a respectable roster, along with keeping Hammer, Niemi and Ladd
that is an extremely tall order if Huet can’t be moved – and doesn’t leave us any real (or significant) tagging room
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
i thought that was a given no matter waht
by puppetmasterp on Jun 24, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Another deal was probably inevitable before - and more than one if we got Cap penalized
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Assuming an even 4 mil in bonuses...
…counting against the cap next year, the Hawks will only have 55.4 mil to work with. However, with the 10% over rule for the offseason, the total amount of money they can carry on the books at any one time is 65.34 mil (59.4*1.1). Less the 4 million in bonuses, that’s 61.34 in player contracts.
Total $ on players signed for next year: 53.94 (per Cap Geek.) That gives you breathing room of a little less than 7.5 mil for the remainder of the offseason while making moves. Of course, it only gives you around 1.5 million extra in real dollars to fill out the rest of your 2010-2011 roster.
I’m convinced Versteeg will be gone, likely for prospects/picks, and Huet’s cap hit will go bye-bye one way or another, so that gives you an extra 8.7 million to round out your roster. Unless I’ve screwed up some calculations, that makes the tinfoil helmets a little looser.
by Hjammer of the Gods on Jun 24, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I'm going to check through all those numbers again...
Because if no one beats me to it in the next few days, I want to make an official fanpost for everyone to play GM for a day. I figure I’ll put up all the applicable numbers from Cap Geek for an accurate baseline, then let people go from there, as far as estimating RFA raises, returns from trades, free agent signings, etc.
by Hjammer of the Gods on Jun 24, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe send an email to Tallon
Hey Dale? Wha’d ya sign all the boys for last year?
I'm close enough to these numbers to say we're essentially agreeing
Capgeek showed us at $55,414 right now
nhlnumbers showed us at $53,382
I’ve been using nhlnumbers figures.
Huet is on our books until jut a couple weeks before the season starts – and represents $5.625 of the $5.940 cushion of tagging room
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
my own chicken scratch
included Ladd, Nintendo, and Nemo for $6 million total. Is this realistic?
Huey’s contract seems roughly in line with the 10% cushion, so mebbe the Hawks can sign the RFAs, then send Huey down before the season and keep Versteeg if they round out the roster (including #6 d-man) for something like the minimum.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
I was assuming $2 mil each with my "try to be realistic" projecting
and several no (or minimum) raise and 500k scrubs to fill out having 22 player under contract and rostered for the season
If we have no bonus penalty carryover – we’d still need to shed about $3.6 million to meet Cap (so the Huet strategy could work)
If we have bonus penalty carryover of $3.7 – we’d then need to shed about $7.3 million to meet Cap (and the Huet strategy is not enough)
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Even -1.422 under the cap, though, is not enough. Our cap next year is roughly 4 mil less than the actual number … due to this year’s performance bonuses counting against it.
www.mjt.org
Sorry - that was $1.4 OVER the Cap - NOT UNDER
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
A lot of work
But not a lot of brains. Today’s conclusion was to buy out Campbell. Reading too much of their ongoing dipshittery on the Hawks cap issues will make your brain resemble Eager’s. Though in Atlanta, he might be considered an intellectual giant.
by Hjammer of the Gods on Jun 24, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
i find it reassuring
esp when people come on here and tell us how much we’re screwed, how much we should be resigned to having a team that sucks next year, how much they want to poach our players (including crazy amounts of wishful thinking for Patrick Sharp), etc….
It makes me feel better to go and see what others think are solutions/likely moves for us. and some of the crazy solutions they suggest make me feel better, b/c it shows they don’t necessarily know any more about the situation.
by puppetmasterp on Jun 24, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup
I think their most recent post is maybe the 5th or 6th in a series. If I were to correct all the cumulative errors and ridiculous statements in red pen, my monitor would be unreadable. Don’t get me wrong, if you want to check the stats of the situation and report on what you find, great, but do more than 10 cents worth of research on the players before playing GM.
by Hjammer of the Gods on Jun 24, 2010 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah but they don't have Buff gone
At an admittedly quick glance trying to sort out the mistakes, I think after we move Huet we’d only need to move Ladd out to be right there.
Rod Stewart aside, the last cut is the deepest methinks.
Rod Stewart?
i was thinking it was Sheryl Crow
by puppetmasterp on Jun 24, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm an old guy
Well…maybe not THAT old. Waiting for someone to call out Cat Stevens…..
I was going to call out Cat Stevens
until I read your comment. After all, he did write the song.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
I didn't even notice
the “last” cut. I just saw Rod Stewart & Sheryl Crow.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
well yeah
I meant last cut. We will eventually get down to needing ONE more guy cut to make it…and that one will hurt the most I think (Sharp? Ladd? Vesteeg?)….the last cut.
See what I did there?
I see what you did
and I agree any of those 3 will be the deepest. What if the last cut is either trading or sending Huet to Rockford? haha
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
all of the posts are in chronological order
and all of the facts are correct. let’s see what you’ve got.
I’m quite sure what you think are mistakes of mine are actually, well, not. But, please, be specific.
or else retract the insults
you’ll notice I haven’t been calling you crazy etc…
Wait till this year.
I don't think he meant facts per se
but rather the assessment of the players, maybe qualitatively? As in who we think remain good fits for the team, versus who we can afford to let go.
Of course, there’s always going to be at least a twinge of homerism in these kinds of discussions.
totally
and, just to underline, I wasn’t making any particular assessment of anyone, other than to say
untouchable: Kane, Toews, Keith, Hossa, Seabrook
bad contracts: Campbell, Huet, Sopel
contracts that will clear real space if moved: Sharp, Versteeg, Bolland, Barker, Byfuglien
also, i f-ing hate contracts that make a good (or great) player less attractive, which is what happened in Campbell’s case. I agree he’s an excellent player. Same with Kopitar, in the Kings’ case; he’s very good and getting better, but $6.8MM is a big chunk of our cap space. You can only afford so many of those guys.
Wait till this year.
ibid re the "a lot of work but no brains" comment above
Do the math. Show me your solution. Or don’t, because it’s all going to come out in the wash over the next several weeks.
I wouldn’t mind knowing what you’re talking about when you say “it shows they don’t necessarily know any more about the situation…”
Wait till this year.
take it easy, and take the posters one at a time, not as a whole
i don’t necessarily prescribe to the insults above (i didn’t reply in agreement to them. my next post had to do with Sheryl Crow after all). I’ve clearly been reading your posts, and haven’t found them idiotic, or else i wouldn’t have recommended them to other posters here who were looking to crunch cap numbers.
I do agree with some of your solutions. especially anything that involves trading some combo of Sharp, Ladd, Bolly, or Versteeg. I personally think they wont get rid of Sharp if avoidable (i.e. last) b/c his price tag/cap hit is so unbelievably cheap for what he brings to the table. we can plug him in any offensive position we need (center, wing, any line). The team has indicated recently that they have no intention of moving Bolland — so I’m expecting Ladd or Versteeg to go next. ACTUALLY, i expect both.
Trading Hossa is POSSIBLE, i just don’t think it’ll happen. He adds so much to our offense, not just personally, but in making other players around him better. And the way they structured his contract, spread out over the number of years (despite being front-loaded) does present benefits, and supports the idea of not moving him.
The buyout of Campbell is what I see as completely improbable. He does in fact add a lot to our defense, and for many reasons brought up by others here (maybe not all on this thread, but a bunch over the last week), it just doesn’t seem to add up to a smart financial decision, either short or long term. this reply is already getting really long, but if you want, i can try to pull together a list of such reasons tomorrow or something.
so all of the above means this: essentially you came to a bunch of conclusions that i did, in addition to suggesting conclusions i find highly improbable (this even after considering the fact that in our situation, not much is really off the table). Now considering i came into this whole “cap debacle” feeling like i didn’t know a whole lot about it, i find all of the above reassuring, both in my understanding of the cap situation (i’m not as far behind as i thought in understanding it), and in my fear of getting caught off guard by something management does in the next couple week.
i can’t speak for the others, but that’s all i meant. Though i do stand by my “wishful thinking for Sharp comment.” I’ve honestly lost track of the number of blogs on which i’ve read “hey, we can still get Sharp i hope,” or something to that effect. Everyone wants him, everyone thinks they have leverage to get him, and i don’t think we’re likely to move him except as an absolute last resort. but hey, i could be wrong.
i do enjoy your posts in general, btw
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jun 26, 2010 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions
+2010
Agree with every point here. I think a Hossa trade is just as improbable as a Campbell buyout (if anything, a Huet buyout is more probable than this, but not by much — I don’t think that is the best option either).
I’ve been afraid to say so but I think you’re right that both Ladd and Versteeg are gone. But I have my fingers crossed in the hope that Stan will use some of Kaner’s black magic to make something work.
I wasn't directing anything personally at anyone
mostly because I don’t know anybody here. I didn’t mean to round everyone off to one big angry red tomahawk.
I concur 100% that buying out Campbell (and trading Hossa) are improbable. What’s interesting about this particular situation is how quickly one arrives at improbable solutions. It just emphasizes, I think, how likely the first couple solutions are (trading some combination of Byfuglien, Sopel, Sharp, Versteeg, Ladd or Bolland).
When I was writing about this a year ago, I decided the plan was Cup or bust and then trade Huet at peak value. Add the rise of Niemi to the list of improbable outcomes.
Frankly, I thought the Byfuglien to ATL trade was kind of brilliant.
Wait till this year.
Buff to ATL
WAS completely brilliant. I hope it works out well for ATL in the future, but in the here and now, it worked out amazingly for us.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jun 26, 2010 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually, that was one of a handful of options
A Campbell buy-out saves you over $4MM. Keep him, and that’s another of Sharp, Versteeg, Bolland, Ladd (if he gets qualified), you will lose. I mentioned Hossa because trading him solves lots of problems. Or you can not re-sign Niemi and have two goalies making $700K. I’m not making suggestions just to annoy people; but I also don’t have any special attachment to any of these players (which may make it easier for me to sacrifice players). The assumptions I made were Bowman’s, that Toews, Kane, Keith, Hossa and Seabrook were untouchable and everyone else was in play. I came back to Hossa because “untouchable” or not, he’s played a season in CHI and it’s a long contract.
Seriously. Read the post(s). Do the math yourself. (Use Capgeek, since they’re more accurate.) Go with a minimum 20 man roster. Assume the best case scenario for the bonus cushion penalty ($3.7MM). Show me an option that is less painful than the ones I out-lined.
You can say “not a lot of brains” all you want, but at least I (a) know what’s in the CBA, and (b) can add.
Wait till this year.
2 things
- i think they’re more likely not to resign Niemi than lose Hossa. I think after last season, theres more confidence in the idea that if you keep the defense as strong as it is, you can worry much less about who’s in net.
- Bolland has been put on the untouchable list recently, i believe. Sharp may have been as well. Seabrook has been explicitly listed as one though.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jun 26, 2010 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions
agreed and agreed
Bolland and Sharp were on the list, as I realized as soon as I hit “post.”
I’m not advocating losing Hossa. (in my post, I lean toward buying out Campbell — because it solves your cap problem now and five years from now; but I get that it’s a fairly radical move. I guess I just like Sharp, Versteeg et al more than Campbell.)
Wait till this year.
i see your point about liking Sharp and Versteeg more
but Campbell, despite being overpaid, is an integral part of our defense. The best evidence for this is how desperately we missed him after the Ovechkin hit — we had SO MUCH trouble moving the puck out of our zone in the Nashville series while he was gone. An there aren’t that many other defenseman in the league who could fill this void for us right now.
Everyone knew we had great offense, but our D is what really raised eyebrows at the start of last season. Plus, we can get the offensive strength back through the farm system in the next few years too (an idea supported by our drat picks today). We have enough forward depth that we can afford to lose some of it in the short term, but the same CAN’T be said of our D. It’s why we need Campbell, and it’s why so many of us see signing Hjammer as the biggest priority right now.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jun 26, 2010 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
the first pass is so important
and frequently you don’t know it until it’s gone and you want it back
Wait till this year.
typing fail
i meant Seabrook (i.e. Biscuit) has NOT been explicitly put on the list….but i think you got my gist.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jun 26, 2010 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions
I think we're talking about different articles
I got my information from the Hockey Independent article, so it’s still just a rumor. However, knowing the kind of PR-style president McDonough is, I doubt he would’ve let Sharp go to the NHL Awards if he wasn’t one of the people expected to be around next year.
look, heres my take
17 goals, 17 assists, minus-7 +/-
- we made up $5M
- we definitely broke even in terms of overall talent, potential or otherwise
- we moved pieces that, while i will sorely miss them, were very moveable. (see above…those would be byfugliens regular season stats. forgive me when i say that i dont think losing that line kills our chances next season.)
once we get past all of the sentimental values of buff, eager, and sopes, its pretty clear this was a phenomenal trade, given the circumstances. do i expect the thrashers to be cheered upon taking the ice in the uc? yes. just checked, they dont come this year. but you get my point. we will always be grateful to these three, and they will always be cheered inside our walls, no matter their colors. 15 years from now when theyre all retired, theyll want to be remembered as hawks. i have no doubt. but today, june 24 2010, this better than the best envisioned start to the “capocalypse”. goodnight.
CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS-2010 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
ive been trying to explain this to all my friends
who watched the playoffs only and thought byfuglien was equivalent to a deity of some sort. so that was my rant. now, to lighten the mood: enjoy
CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS-2010 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
I was at Wags
and saw a ton of Buff t-shirts. Wondered who the fools were who were going to buy those.
The sun never sets on a badass
Its impossible trying to explain this to some
thats why i love this site
2009-2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Chicago Blackhawks
Best aspect
is that it’s an EC team that’s highly unlikely to make the SCF, so we’ll see him max 1x/year.
Our Cup.
I think you nailed it ...
I love that Buff came alive for the playoffs and maybe we’ll miss him in the muck and mire in April of next year, but the guy has been dragging ass for two straight seasons. It’s a rare thing to so be able to so clearly recognize that a player is on the ice ham and eggin’ it. Of course, his strong playoff performance means I’d keep him if we could, however, under the circumstance he’s the one i’m most comfortable with leaving.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jun 24, 2010 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions
oh the dogs that may be saved next year
BigC may be able to give up the cloning
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
Officially?
All I see are the articles talking about the Thrashers “eyeballing” him?
by ForAllYouYoungHockeyMoms on Jun 24, 2010 1:10 AM CDT reply actions
Reply Fail.
Sorry :( In regards to Torchetti.
by ForAllYouYoungHockeyMoms on Jun 24, 2010 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Can anyone tell me again
How much of a hit we would take if they buy out Huet’s contract?
Live, Love, Be... Progressive in all things
half
or the remainder of the money divided by the years in length if I remember correctly.
by runningquicklynowhere on Jun 24, 2010 1:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it's something like
2/3 of the remaining money spread out over double the remaining length. So instead of paying him $11mil over 2 years, we’d now be paying $7.3mil over 4 years.
I think.
interesting ccomment i saw on the Thrasher's site in response to the trade
This just in…
The Thrashers will have more black players than the Braves.
don’t know if that’s true, but if it is….
They said Evander Kane generated a lot of interest in Atlanta
So Buff might be a good marketing pick up for them, too.
by shinkicker on Jun 24, 2010 7:01 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I didn't want to say anything for fear of a fatal misstep
but I wonder if two black players have ever been included in an NHL trade before.
Also, isn’t Atlanta sorta the unofficial capital of black America? (Disclaimer- almost everything I know about Atlanta I learned from Tom Wolfe’s “A Man in Full”).
And is it ever a bad time for a Chris Rock quote?
Basketball, baseball, football, golf, tennis, and as soon as they make a heated hockey rink we’ll take that shit too.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
we're not the only ones
who would speculate Buff being a hockey marketing tool in ATL. Throw Ailu into consideration for the trade, and it makes sense. Atlanta is a capital of black urban culture in the US, so that’s a huge part of the market if you want to expand interest in hockey there, and seeing African Americans succeed in new areas does help gain fans in the African American community.
Example: how important has Chicago-born Southside-raised Shani Davis been for spreading interest in speed skating among underprivileged communities of color?
Answer: about 2 or 3 times as important as anyone before him.
by puppetmasterp on Jun 24, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Buff is Minnesota
He is half black, but his personality, speech, etc. reminds me of a character out of the movie “Fargo”. Hopefully he adapts to SE USA, and is able to promote the game. He is charismatic in his own way.
i never got the
Fargo dialect from him. Always sounded like a dude that would crush my skull by just breathing on it.
From Rosenbloom, on the Buff trade:
“Bowman gets points for moving decisively, and I’m sure even he isn’t happy he had to do it. Fact is, the only person who is sure to smile over this is Roberto Luongo.”
The Chicago Blackhawks -- 2010 Stanley Cup Champions!!!!!!
"I can't stop crying and laughing." Preacher
What a Frigging Robbery!!!!!!!
Holy Moly! Hard to believe so much good done for so little.
1) Atlanta front office must not have had time during the regular season to watch Hawks games. Nice they tuned in during the middle rounds of the playoffs. Good luck getting Buff motivated in Atlanta.
2) Here’s what Morin did:
Morin, 19, tied for fourth in the Ontario Hockey League with 47 goals and ranked 12th with 83 points in 58 regular-season games with the Kitchener Rangers last season.
So we give up a guy that plays about 2 games during the regular season and get a 19 yo 47 goal scorer???!!!!! Baby!!!!!!
3) And WE get 2 extra draft picks???? Remember this ain’t Lovie and Angelo picking players. Think Bowman and Quinnville have a shot at a few keepers? I do.
4) BONUS No more clown shoes power play! Write it down!: – Torchetti. Why would he take a lateral??? Well chances are he ain’t gonna be a head coach soon and maybe one of the Bowmans’ actually DID notice the clown shoes? Hmmmm??
5) OK. I liked Sopel too. So now instead of a shot blocking #5 2M+ defense man we need to get a skating faster or clear the crease/checking <1M ish #5 defense man. Gotta be doable.
6) Eager or Bickell or eventually Beach. One good Eager shot to the head and he’s wearing blindfolds in a quiet room with Johnnson.
OK so assuming we dump Huet and Madden what do we have left?:
1. Brouwer Toews Kane
2 Kopecky Sharp Hossa
3 Ladd Bolland Versteeg
4 Burish Reasoner Bickell
1. Keith Seabrook
2. Hammer Campbell
3. Boynton Hendry (yeah this could hurt a bit)
Niemi Crawford
But that’s all BEFORE any possible minor league call ups (Dowell, Skille, Beach, Cullimore, Lalonde).
Yeah, maybe another guy has to go, but still…this ain’t bad given we HAD to move players!
I still want Madden back another year
It’d be cruel to make his children switch schools, after all.
How long was Boynton’s contract for?
The sun never sets on a badass
Mr. Boynton...
is an UFA. I doubt we’ll see Madden back.
-Matt Cooke is a turd burglar. He burgles ALL the turds.-
-At least he's not Cam Janssen. What a bag of dicks that guy is.-
I think Madden will still play another season or two
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
I would add Dowell in that mix
I was impressed with him in the few games we saw. I hope he gets a shot if somone else has to go
2009-2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Chicago Blackhawks
I thought I read they made Madden an offer that he didn't accept
He was going to try to get more money elsewhere.
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
After the Limo fiasco in Vancouver,
Madden’s wife probably won’t let him sign here.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
shouldn't she be
more opposed to Vancouver? Or is it she doesn’t want him around those bad influences, Kane and Versteeg?
by Katherine215 on Jun 24, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it's the bad influences
Madden won’t sign here or where ever Versteeg ends up.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
You'll want to check those numbers
Assuming conservative raises for Hjalmarsson (2 mil), Ladd (2.25), Burish (850k), Hendry (800k), and Bickell (650k), and factoring in a FA 6th defenseman for about 1.2 mil, you’re already at 55.5 mil. That doesn’t include any goaltending, and it’s my opinion that they need a veteran backup rather than Crawford. It also doesn’t include the 4-plus million they lose in cap space from deferred bonuses this past season. At least one more player needs to go, sorry.
by Hjammer of the Gods on Jun 24, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I said that at the end
Unfortunately I think you’re right. Though I DO disagree with the Crawford thing. At the start of the season I actually thought he was the best goalie on the Hawks. Apparently he was equal to Niemi in pre-season, but went down due to some waiver to the minors complication with Niemi. So if he IS in fact in Niemi’s skill class, why do we need another guy?
I just get scared of assumptions with little sample size
We’re assuming Niemi can replicate his late season success over the course of an entire regular season. We’re assuming Crawford won’t be the guy that lost his starting gig in Rockford for awhile last season, and that he’ll display better puckhandling prowess than we saw in his start in Anaheim this year. Since there will be a bit of a drop-off in skill across the board for the Hawks skaters this year, the goalies will be tested more too. The saving grace here is that the market is over saturated with free agent goalies this summer. If you want one going into the season, you can find something cheap. If you want to start the season rolling the dice with 2008’s Ice Hog tandem, and it backfires, there should still be some guys available.
Either way, in case of emergency, deploy Hannu Toivonen
by Hjammer of the Gods on Jun 24, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, expect the expected
Yeah, you start with the assumption that Niemi can do. My only fear last year after I saw him a few times was whether he can handle a steady workload and not break down. I feel pretty good about that now.
I have to judge Crawford by what I saw in him the few NHL games he had. I saw a good positioning goalie with pretty good reflexes. Given 10 games or so experience, I don’t see why he wouldn’t be fine. As to Rockford…..well…given all defense men down there are worse than Hendry, how much can you judge Crawford vs. his time with the big boys?
His defensemen are worse
But so are the other teams’ offenses. Wax on, wax off.
by Hjammer of the Gods on Jun 24, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
MMmmmmmm dunnnoooo
Shots are shots and with bad D more get through. Yeah you don’t have Ovechkin on a break away, but I’d guess GAA are worse in minors than in NHL….but that’s just a guess.
How do you assume
Niemi can replicate his successes for an entire season? He played fewer total games than some starting goalies did and those starting goalies (Luongo, Anderson, Nabby) were too tired by the playoffs to play at the same level they had during the year.
Niemi was fresher than many of the goalies in the playoffs, and that definitely contributed to his success. He looked a little tired to me by the SCFs, too. Splitting time for goalies does not strike me as a bad thing at all. I hope Niemi and Crawford and Huet and Toivonen (don’t fall over the net!) and whoever can do a great job as a team.
by Katherine215 on Jun 24, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Niemi and Crawford
make me at least as comfortable going into next season as Huet and Niemi did going into last season.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
What he said!
Because Niemi was an unknown this year, Q had to play him late in the year to give him much needed experience. Next year we might have the luxury of resting him late since we know already what he can do. So if we can get a serviceable goalie that can play 20 games that should be fine. And given this year’s close pre-season race between Niemi and Crawford, how does ANYBODY know if Crawford really is or isn’t better than Niemi? I don’t. Let’s see him play 5-8 games early. Wouldn’t THAT be a kick if he bumped Niemi to backup??? I doubt it too, but heck, most didn’t think Niemi could play better than Huet at the start of the year either. Never know until you see.
Great time to move 'em
Buff will not live up to the hype. Sopel was steady , there is lots of steady out there. Eager is a banger…a time a dozen. Big thank you to all of them. and of’course they should thank the team for the "Cup. Pure salary dump. more to come. How many first round draft picks do we have this year?
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
Two, I believe
And two in the second round
by shinkicker on Jun 24, 2010 7:03 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It was originally New Jersey's right?
So between that and our 30th pick, they’re not high, but it’s still 2 first rounders.
Both of the draft choices
we got from Atlanta are the picks the received from New Jersey in the Kolvachuk deal.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
Now what about Huet?
Worse case is he goes to the minors/or is cut. What happens to his salary?
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
IMO
if he doesn’t get traded, he should play. Just cause Niemi pulled it off doesn’t make Huet a bad goalie. Why pay all that money for him if he’s not gonna play?
The sun never sets on a badass
this
but either way, if we’re sending him down to the minors I don’t think we’ll hear about it until the fall; plus we still have to cope with tagging room issues
I guess a buyout is the other option
why would be pay a guy over 11 mil to not play when we could pay him 7.5 mil not to play. I know that the buyout still gives us a 1.9 mil cap hit, but Rocky might just tell stan that he has to deal with the cap hit. I’m not 100% sure on this, but if we buy him out, we can get that tagging room immediately, right?
Ditto for CNS
it is Cap space doodling - in the minors, we don't have Cap hit during the regular season
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
well, I know that
but if we need the tagging room now, we could buy him out. If we can get away with not having to buy him out then we can go the minors dump route.
I don’t know what Rocky’s finances are, he’s one rich dude and he isn’t his dad, but If I were in that situation I would certainly consider telling stan bowman that I don’t want to burn the extra 3.5 million dollars (minors – buyout) and that if he wants to get rid of Huet, he needs to go the buyout route and just deal with the cap hit.
Ditto for CNS
I think Huet
will be a great goalie coach in Rockford.
Agree
People always forget Huet did a lot of good things for the team during the year.
by Katherine215 on Jun 24, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
I’m trying to forget at least….Wonder if he’s athletic enough to play soccer goalie? Seems like the French World Cup team might need a few good players.
Oh, would you like to give back
his 26 wins? Those were all forgettable. We sure didn’t need them to get in the playoffs, or to keep Niemi fresh for the playoff run. Brilliant response.
by Katherine215 on Jun 24, 2010 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd like to COMPLETELY forget him
Niemi and or Crawford could have gotten 30 wins at least from those 26. He basically is a decent to mediocre 2nd string goalie with a 5.4 Mil cap problem who will probably play in the minors next year where he belongs. How’s THAT for brilliant?
I thought we were done with the Huet bleatings once and for all. That is one guy I hope I NEVER see again in a Hawks uniform, because if I do, we are in trouble talent wise AND team cap wise. Of the whole playoff team I will not miss him one iota if I never see him again.
BUT just my opinion…..and Bowman’s who dying to dump him….and Quineville’s who benched him EVERY game at the end when it mattered….and all the other general managers in the entire NHL because not even ONE will trade for him no matter how desperate we are to SOMEHOW, SOMEWAY dump that anchor.
Off the ice though, he seems like a nice enough guy. And he didn’t ruin team chemistry when he was demoted to 2nd string. I respect him for that.
sorry husler
but I can’t even respond to this. I think you’re just plain wrong.
by Katherine215 on Jun 24, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
And I totally respect your right to do that.
It’d be pretty much a miracle if everybody on a blog saw things the same way.
I think he's totally correct
Except the fact that I like him a lot as a person. I don’t like his play, or his positioning but off the ice, he’s a stand-up man.
Didn't you see the way he opened doors during the Stanley Cup run?!
You can’t quantify how many too-many-men-on-the-ice penalties he prevented
It was then I realized vegans can’t be trusted
by Scotty Ballgame on Jun 24, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I really don't want to get into the Huet debate
but I think it’s safe to assume that someone else would have picked up those 26 wins. The defense at the time was pretty outstanding.
someone else may have picked up 26 wins during the regular season,
because like everyone’s said, we can get wins with a mediocre goalie due to our defense and outrageous shot differential.
However, if Nemo was #1, and let’s say Crawford was #2, Nemo would have started more games. That would worry me, because it looked like he was losing steam by the SCFs with bad rebounds and such.
Anyways, we won the Cup with the Huet/Niemi tandem, and I would love to see a solution for next season, but I’m starting to think we’ll be seeing these two again
by blackhawkeyes on Jun 26, 2010 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Question
If we do keep Huet on the big league squad next year — is dumping Ladd and Versteeg enough to keep us under the cap? Can we sign Hjammer still? No crazy buyouts or anything?
I'm not really sure
since I haven’t put a lot of time/effort into figuring out the cap. It seems like from what I’ve read here (from people who know far better than me what they’re talking about) that moving those two should solve a lot, but it all depends how much Hammer and Nemo get offers for and if we decide to match them.
The thing with Huet is, since he’s probably not being traded or bought out, we have to wait until the season starts to move him and his cap hit down to the AHL. So, he basically is the 10% cushion that the team can work at before the season starts, and the rest of the roster has to be right at the cap.
and just to anyone, if I’m wrong here, let me know! Like I said, I’m no cap expert
by blackhawkeyes on Jun 26, 2010 1:48 AM CDT up reply actions
i don't see how that's possible
dumping Ladd and Versteeg wouldn’t be enough. You’d probably have to dump Sharp + Versteeg to make Huet work, no?
and then
you’d still have to shed some more salary. Sharp + Versteeg + Hammer, perhaps or Ladd.
~4.5M more after replacements....
Everything I have read needs 3M saved from Huet (Huet in minors plus a replacement) and another 3M guy gone to make things right. If Huet stays its probably 2 – 3M guys plus Ladd that needs to go…
Remember you have to replace guys that leave, so 6M savings on two guys is actually more then 6M savings on three guys.
His salary
If they end up Rockford-ing him, his money counts against the cap hit until about a week or two before the season starts. Problematic, because you can only go over the cap by 10% during the off-season when making moves.
by Hjammer of the Gods on Jun 24, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh no! I didn't know that.
But isn’t 10% about = to his salary? So we just need to match up the rest of the team with the exact cap if I understand you right.
The cap space we have is lower than the actual number, because with bonuses this year we went over by about 4 million … and that counts against this coming season’s cap. Our cap next yr is the actual cap number minus roughly 4 million. I don’t have the numbers at hand, just the general rule.
www.mjt.org
Chico- I just read it was officially announced at 3.7 mil.
Husler- You’ve got the gist of it. The problem is that you need to make sure to clear sufficient cap space (well, cap space plus 10%) before making any moves. That’s why the Buff trade had to happen first, in order for them to be able to make qualifying offers to the RFAs. If that hadn’t happened, they wouldn’t have had the space to even make offers. Other teams not wedged up against the cap wouldn’t have to worry about that, they’d be able to issue offers, then take their time working a trade. This of course goes for trades, FA signings, etc. as well. It’s not a prohibitive problem, but it kneecaps you when it comes to a quick-strike type move, as you’d have to do a lot more work to get all your ducks in order prior to doing anything.
by Hjammer of the Gods on Jun 24, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
is there some link to the "official announcement" for the $3.7 penalty?
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Looking for it now
I’ve read 30 or so cap articles today already.
by Hjammer of the Gods on Jun 24, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Jumped the gun on "official announcement"
Mirtle has it at an even 4 mil, Darren Dreger is tweeting 3.7
by Hjammer of the Gods on Jun 24, 2010 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Sopel is a speed bump
What’s with all of this love for Sop’s? You are all nuts. I grant you that he was loved by his teammates, and must be a quality off the ice guy, BUT he was nearly the death of us all season in our end. Our fortunes completely turned back to the positive when he went back to playing 8 minutes a game and Soupy returned to his normal ice allotments. Sopel’s issue is that he just can’t move anymore. The game is way too fast. He can’t turn and go for the life of him, so our puck control “speed coming back up the ice at you game” reverted to try to make a deep pass out of our on zone game which didn’t work nearly as well. A team committed to the fore check eats him up, and his best move becomes lying down in front of 90 MPH’ers. I’ll miss his little dance during the National Anthem and his Alice Cooper good looks (?), but not much else. You guys that love his game are the ones booing Campbell. Would’ve hoped that we all would have learned that this game has moved to speed and puck control. Stan is the Man for this deal!
He was a 5th D, certainly, but a good 5th D (compared to the rest of the league)
he contributed a lot to the penalty kill and stepped up big in a number of important games.
He wasn’t a Kieth or Seabrook, but he was a good veteran presence on a young team that needed it, and played above his expected talent level in important games
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Sopel has a body made of Kevlar
Have you seen his shot-blocking skills? If you watch carefully, he really does have good shot-blocking form (it’s not just positioning and people shooting into him — he knows how to turn to maximize the effect).
For somebody who can’t skate anymore he’s adjusted his game admirably, which has done loads for our penalty kill. He may have cost us once or twice in the regular season but without Sopes, we may have never killed that 5 minute major and advanced beyond the first round. And Marian Hossa would be a goat.
I’d already resigned myself to losing him (he’s paid too much for what he does) but I hardly think it’s nuts to realize how significant his contribution was this year.
agreed
he finished with a flourish, but the 3rd d-pairing was urine for most of the year.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
Your facts are not facts
His lowest TOI in the SCF was 13:23; he topped 15 mins in 2 other games, and he topped 20 mins in the other 3. Also, he had a goal and 2 assists in the SCF and played absolutely crucial PK time. That best move of lying down prevented shots from getting to Niemi who was giving up rebounds like his pads were made of rubber, and although I don’t have stats, I think we were the best shot-blocking team of the playoffs (excepting Montreal possibly?), and Sopes was the best blocker, by far, on our team.
This is from a 5th defenseman, where normally you just want your 3rd pairing not to make mistakes. Add to all this the intangibles he obviously brought to the dressing room … I’d think a little bit of love is more than warranted.
www.mjt.org
by ChicoMaki on Jun 24, 2010 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
Nice research Chico
Sopes steeped up big time this post-season with more shot-blocking than he had already been doing a shitload of. I know that Sopes is gone, but if I hear anyone boo him or Campbell next season I will punch them right in the face. Props to every single player on this 2010 Hawks team, every single one of them stepped up at one point or another. It is crucial that we do whatever it takes to keep Sharpie and Ladd.
LUigi was found dead at the scene, murdered by a Chelsea Dagger.
Sigh
You guys that love his game are the ones booing Campbell.
It has been a running joke all season long on here that we laugh at all the idiots who boo Campbell, because we recognize how much the transition game hinges on him.
Aside from that, see Chico’s post, I have nothing to add.
by Hjammer of the Gods on Jun 24, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Some caller on the SCORE
yesterday was whining about the trade and asking why we didn’t dump that useless Campbell guy instead. Sheesh.
What the hell
I’m gone for one night and all hell breaks loose. Kaner has sex, Duncs wins the Norris, and half the fucking team is traded.
I had a feeling Buff was gone. He is a good player that is giving us great value in return based on his outstanding performance in a few playoff games. Not to mention that salary needed to be moved.
Sopel will be missed but I think more for his gritty, shot blocking than for anything he really does with the puck. Again, he was getting paid too much for 8-9 minutes a game.
I didn’t expect Eager to resign so it is what it is.
We should all be greatful to get something good in return for what was a necessary salary dump.
That being said, I’ll never forget the contributions of these players on the way to winning the Cup. And I’ll be rooting for them in their new home.
Buffy,
From one 6 foot 4, +259 lb hockey player to another- I’ve always appreciated your contribution and understand your struggle to constantly find the energy to put your ass in motion. From getting out of bed to backchecking….fuck man, it’s even hard typing about that shit. But it’s amazing what a little adrenalin kicking in during playoffs can do, huh? Especially during those clutch, game-winning situations!
Sad to see ya go. Good luck chasing around the speedy Caps and Bolts in the Southeast. I’m glad the Hawks wont be seeing much of you. Muscle those Thrashers into the post-season and shine again.
Sopel & Eager….loved you guys too. Thanks for the cup, and good luck!
Little draft piece on Morin
-Matt Cooke is a turd burglar. He burgles ALL the turds.-
-At least he's not Cam Janssen. What a bag of dicks that guy is.-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlJwWNSwxxk
ugh!
-Matt Cooke is a turd burglar. He burgles ALL the turds.-
-At least he's not Cam Janssen. What a bag of dicks that guy is.-
For what it's worth
Birdwatchers Anonymous was saying Reasoner was their best PK guy all year.
by Hjammer of the Gods on Jun 24, 2010 10:38 AM CDT reply actions
Which makes him 3rd or 4th best for the Hawks?
Hossa
Toews
Bolland?
It was then I realized vegans can’t be trusted
by Scotty Ballgame on Jun 24, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Totally agree
just implying that I didn’t think the Hawks would be hurting on the PK even with the loss of Madden
It was then I realized vegans can’t be trusted
by Scotty Ballgame on Jun 24, 2010 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Madden and bolland
were usually the first 2 PK forwards out. Have to replace Madden’s role for sure.
by Katherine215 on Jun 24, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Figure Reasoner as the less Cap Madden replacement
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
keep going
Sharp
Versteeg
Basically, he fills in for Madden.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
Does anybody else
picture Eager sitting at a bus stop with a box of chocolates looking like Forrest Gump?
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
Vancouver fans are obsessed
All we want is for the Nucks to beat the Hawks in the playoffs, and now without Buffy it is going to be easier.
Who cares about the regular season…………WHY would you trade a playoff monster? Now lets see if Gillis can sign Ladd away and bring him home to Vancouver
Why would you trade him?
well, you have to get to the playoffs first. and you may have heard, we have this silly little cap issue to deal with. And really, if Buff can get into Luongo’s head, it must not be that difficult.
by Katherine215 on Jun 24, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
That's all you want?
Canuckleheads will be satisfied if they beat the Hawks in the first round and lose in the second. Bill Wirtz would have loved fans like you.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
If I were a Vancouver fan
I’d first have to shoot myself and then I’d pray for a trade with anyone involving Luuuuu.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
If we beat the Hawks we go to the cup
I don’t see any other team getting out of the West except the hawks or the nucks………..plus we have cap room now that demetra and mitchell are gone clearing 7.5 million to shore up our defence.
OK, you somewhat redeemed yourself with that compliment.
LOL
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
disagree
defense wins championships. The nucks were a bit beat up, but their blueliners are a bunch of turnstiles. By far the worst defense the Hawks saw in the playoffs.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
Both Vancouver and San Jose
think they had better teams than the Hawks this year and could DEFINITELY beat the new cap challenged Hawks 2010-2011. I HOPE you 2 play each other in the 1st round. That would be beautiful irony. Hate to be the city that loses THAT one…LOL.
San Jose played us tough
and they would’ve given the nucks a tough series as well. Plus, there are no guarantees that Detroit won’t have a bounce back year or that LA won’t be even tougher next year.
Ditto for CNS
ha!
what a fucking joke. thegreek, do you not wonder why byfuglien everyone hates the canucks?
CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS-2010 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
to be fair,
even Canucks fans dislike Tony Gallagher. And with good reason, he can’t write for shit and he’s an ass. This article is just further proof.
by Katherine215 on Jun 24, 2010 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually....
I won’t comment on the writing style, but the article is spot on I think. Like my post said above, this trade was a frigging robbery by Bowman. And now I understand why this trade was absolute debauchery of the Thrashers. After reading all the cap space stuff and rules about tenders and only being able to be 10% above the cap at any time and Huet counting full until a few weeks before the season….the Hawks were TOTALLY screwed before the Buf trade…..TOTALLY. If a few teams made free agent tender offers on 3 or 4 Hawks (Niemi, Hammer, Madden…whoever) the Hawks would not even be able to counter those offers because it would have put them ABOVE the 10% cap allowance. They WOULD have lost KEY players….like how about Niemi and Hammer going to Tampa and us having to play Huet kind of screwed. And without cap space, I don’t think we could have saved more than 1 guy. So Atlanta relieved ALL that burden on the Hawks, gave us a #1 and #2 draft pick AND a 19 year old 48 goal scorer!!!!!!! And for what? Buff???? There are probably a LOT of GM’s who were planning the pillaging of the Hawks that want to choke the living daylights out of the Atlanta GM. And I bet the pressure on Bowman was so big to act quickly that any GM worth his salt could have gotten MUCH better from the Hawks. Hell yeah the toilet not only got flushed on Atlanta, but the spray hit a lot of other team’s GM’s right in the eye to boot!
Way to go STAN!!!! Let’s hope Bettman doesn’t grow balls in the next few days all of a sudden.
dude, i agree with everything. it was a great deal for the hawks.
it too was a great deal for the thrashers. while i believe we got the better end, you cant say it was uneven. the only reason youre saying it is is because youre taking outside circumstances into account. if you want to view the fairness of a trade, you cant do that. look at the trade itself. ill call it even…both teams got what they wanted, and gave up what they could afford to give up. great. lets move on.
CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS-2010 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
How can you say great deal for Thrashers?
Eager Sopel Buff??? Dumb, slow and lazy. I mean what is Atlanta’s angle here? They gave away 2 draft picks and a 19 year old to get some experienced players so I assume they aren’t in rebuilding mode. Are those 3 going to put them over the top? They didn’t get Eager and Buff for leadership. Were they looking for a slow shot blocking D man and a mediocre tough guy? Only thing I can figure is they fell in love with Buff’s size and playoff crease ability. But do they think he’ll carry them to the playoffs by standing in the crease during the reg season and leading by example hard work? Good luck with that.
Not sure what you guys are talking about... pillaging of the Hawks
There isn’t a competent GM out there that thought the Hawks would be status quo on July 1st. All of them knew that Hawks would make some trades before that.
Now the important thing to remember is “just because the Hawks need to make a trade doesn’t mean they need to make a trade with YOUR team.” The Hawks were OK because the other teams still needed to compete with each other. If you want a Hawks player you can get one but you still need to make a better offer then the other teams.
again, to be fair,
Rosenbloom doesn’t do an awful job on the Hawks. I’m fairly certain he lurks SCH. :) His tendency to beat a dead horse to a bloody pulp is what irritates me about him (i.e. his Lovie/McCaskey hate, his Piniella hate, etc.).
by Katherine215 on Jun 24, 2010 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions
oh, no, not at all!
I get seriously annoyed with Rosenbloom more often than not. It’s just that he does pull out a gem or two once in awhile. His articles immediately after the Cup win were extremely good, imo, and my impression of Gallagher is that he’s just an ass. So I thought the comparison was a little unfair to Rosenbloom.
by Katherine215 on Jun 25, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Sure whatever
For whatever reason, for two years in a row Buffy killed us. Destroyed Luongo and our tiny defence……………so from a canucks perspective, this is a good deal for us in that we don’t have to deal with that monster anymore. For whatever reason Buffy hated the nucks and played like a man possessed against us, all 270lbs of him.
I like this:
For whatever reason, for two years in a row Buffy killed us.
The reason would be that your defense was soft and small, so Buff didn’t really have to work that hard and frankly how can you not take every opportunity to bring forth Lu tears?
Our Cup.
What is the deal with Aliu?
Everyone keeps ragging on him. Does he lack hockey smarts or something? He fought Steve Downie (admittedly his teammate and team captain at the time, but if what I read is true, he deserved it). Is he just not a good hockey player?
PS. I fucking hate Steve Downie.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
"One time I was invited to come to a social gathering. I was paid a handsome amount of money, and I brought a shotgun and a bottle of Tanqueray and showed those people the best f***ing time they’ve ever seen." - Kenny Powers
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jun 24, 2010 2:55 PM CDT reply actions
you've read
the situation correctly. Downie had his coming. Aliu was perhaps one of our top 2 or 3 prospects on offense and he’ll be a good NHLer. He has progressed slower than expected, however.
Well I think
He’ll have a place in ATL
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
"One time I was invited to come to a social gathering. I was paid a handsome amount of money, and I brought a shotgun and a bottle of Tanqueray and showed those people the best f***ing time they’ve ever seen." - Kenny Powers
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jun 24, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I heard from a few folks who saw him this year
that he had a lot of problems keeping passes on his stick, leading to lots of turnovers.
Our Cup.
The right move was made.
and the fact that we got a first rounder for no one who is worth a first rounder, that’s not too shabby.
And while Anahiem returns to the locker room, Todd Bertuzzi is cuffed and returns to the squad car.
by Detroit Must Die on Jun 24, 2010 8:19 PM CDT reply actions

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