It Ain't Easy To Get To Heaven When You're Going Down: Hawks 3 - Flyers 5
by SamFels on Jun 5, 2010 11:44 AM CDT
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PrintNo point in doing the linear thing, so we'll just get to thoughts:
-First off, myself included, calm the fuck down. We've been here before. As the Fifth Feather pointed out yesterday, this feels a lot like last year's first round. The Hawks didn't play well in the first two games at home, but won anyway. Their effort ticked up oh so slightly in the next two, including a furious comeback in Game 4 when down 3, but lost both. They then laced the Flames in the next two. Could easily happen again.
-Yes, Toews and Kane haven't done much, but it's 2-2. Yes, the Hawks have made their share of mistakes, and it's 2-2. No, they haven't gotten too many bounces, and certainly not many calls, and it's 2-2. They probably just went through the Michael Leighton is good game, and it's 2-2. Their power play is still goofy, and it's 2-2. They have just as much chance as winning as the Flyers do, maybe even slightly more if you consider the home ice still belongs to us. And don't give me any crap about game to game momentum. That's wiped out by scoring the first goal Sunday night.
-In addition, I can't help but feel the Hawks just gave that one to the Flyers. Their first two goals were absolute gifts from Hjalmarsson, who picked the worst time to have his worst game. It's once again a malady of the Hawks not being able to clear when they have the chance. Stop it.
-To that end, the first three goals came with Sopel and Hammer on the ice as a pairing together, one which three different writers on this blog three times in the last 72 hours wanted no part of, and that's why. The Richards goal not withstanding as that was a PK situation, Q simply cannot have two immobile defensemen paired together at even strength against this Flyers forecheck.
-That said, the Flyers did control a majority of the play for the game, and dominated the boards. Partly, because Q let them, and more importantly he let Pronger do so. It is past time to get Buff off the top line now that he's reverted to useless bag of shit form. Find a way to get Hossa out against Pronger, who I'm pretty confident could at least battle him to a push. Give Toews some help, because with Buff nullified and that not being Kane's game, he's pretty much all alone out there. Reunite Sharp-Toews-Hossa, load out with Hossa and Daydream Nation, I don't know, but something has to change.
-What had Troy Brouwer done to be demoted to the 4th line and what had Tomo Kop done the past two games to be elevated to Sharp's wing?
-If you look at the CORSI, you'll be encouraged. Maybe it's due to the barrage at the end of the game, and maybe it's due to the power play discrepancy. But finally, the Hawks looked to have the upper hand at even-strength, for whatever period.
-Finally, Campbell got more ice time than Sopel, and was once again stellar. The Flyers don't seem to have a problem with their Top 4 swallowing up all the game, and neither should the Hawks.
-Once the Hawks can find a way to create anything against Pronger, they will have their way with Braydon Coburn. -19 Corsi.
-Lastly, be brave. The rest of the Chicago sports scene would stop breathing and panic, but that's not what we do. We have the better team, the team most everyone picked to win it. They will show it from here on out, I firmly believe that.
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I really don't feel this team can win
three against the Hawks.
And thanks Sam, I thought after game 2 Buff’s ass should have been down and Brouwer on the first line. He is quicker, smarter, and personally, less of a chicken shit to stand in front of the net as we saw throughout the whole regular season. And I doubt Brouw will allow that shit stain Pronger get into his head.
When in Rome we shall do as the Romans, when in Hell we do shots at the bar.
by HolyBlackhawksBatman on Jun 5, 2010 11:48 AM CDT reply actions
i was referring to the
When in Rome we shall do as the Romans, when in Hell we do shots at the bar.
by HolyBlackhawksBatman on Jun 5, 2010 1:14 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
i was referring to the flyers current win streak
You know, the two they have won at home?
When in Rome we shall do as the Romans, when in Hell we do shots at the bar.
by HolyBlackhawksBatman on Jun 5, 2010 1:17 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
got ya
i thought you meant the flyers need to win 3 going forward
by hawkswin!hawkswin! on Jun 5, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
No sir!
I hope I am right. I can’t take this disappointment shit, come on Hawks.
When in Rome we shall do as the Romans, when in Hell we do shots at the bar.
by HolyBlackhawksBatman on Jun 5, 2010 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Game 5 I really think is going to be the dicider of the series
I think who ever wins Game 5 . wins Game 6Just a gut feeling on the way this series has been.
GDTFR
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
James Madison is my Hero!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 5, 2010 11:55 AM CDT reply actions
I tend to agree with you...
…and feel this is going to go 6.
I also think game 5 will go a long way in telling us what what this team is all about in crunch time.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Flyers have outplayed the Hawks throughout the vast majority of the 4 games (and it's 2 - 2).
Flyers are passing fabulously, they jump on most pucks, the pucks seem glued to their sticks. Their movement and positioning is almost magical . It’s like???…………….the Hawks in December and January (and it’s 2 – 2).
This too will pass. But will it pass in the next 3 games?
Penalties, penalties, penalties. Something has got to change.
And then trying to even them up when it’s 4 – 1. THE GAME IS FUCKING OVER, IDIOTS. The series deserves better than this.
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
About the penalty descrepancy
The PP has been clown shoes the entire series (and it’s 2-2, but that’s beside my point).
Unless the Power Play starts clicking, it won’t make a lick of difference how the game is called. Or how Pronger plays.
by Brandon Bibb on Jun 5, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Though I agrre for the most part
I have to disagree with this part
it won’t make a lick of difference how the game is called. Or how Pronger plays
If Pronger can continue to play outside the rule book in denying the Crease to Hawks players, the Hawks have been effectively taken off their in close game. If Pronger wre to start taking calls for hits to the head, or hell just cross checking, tripping and interference, he would have to lay back less keep giving the Hawks a PP. If he has to revert back to working in the rules, this will help open up the playing low for a redirect or rebound, and may draw a second defender in down low to help tie up the Hawk. Either way this helps the Hawks style of play out. But as long as Pronger can be allowed to play just over the line, this hurts the Hawks in more than just neutralizing the man in front of Leighton, it also hurts the other four, who also have less ice to work worth since the Flyers do not have to adjust to our man being in front of their Goalie, and can continue to press a good back check.
If Pronger(or who ever) were to even start to be called for these infractions, it would significantly help out the Hawks, most notably the Toews-Kane and Sharp-Hossa lines the most. Until then, this is a sword fight in a shoe box.
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
James Madison is my Hero!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 5, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
I did not think last nights game was called evenly. Kops got called for a cross-check, while a Flyer player that did the same thing a few minutes earlier did not get called. Sharp’s phantom slash too. On top of it all is Pronger, which you described perfectly. He is getting away with everything and it is rendering the battle in front of the net one-sided. Our guys can’t compete if the rules are not enforced.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark
He's Chris Pronger...
Unless they make murder a penatly he’s not getting called for shit.
"Everything I know about life, I learned from my father watching the Blackhawks. It can all be summed up in 2 words, 2 simple words that ring over and over in my memory. Detroit Sucks!!! Detroit Sucks!!!"
by DetroitSucks! on Jun 5, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Non-homer post on NYT Slap Shot blog about Pronger and the officiating
If the Hawks made a case to the league behind closed doors it didn’t show up on the ice. But maybe that’s why a few media sites said to expect more calls on Pronger last night.
BTW this guy’s game reports are great. He knows the game, there are lots of video and audio links and he throws in a bunch of music videos.
by flyersfaninchicago on Jun 5, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Knowing the NHL officials, they’ll wait until Game 7 in OT to make an interference call on Pronger that will irate everyone on both sides.
They love to wait until the most inopportune time to start calling infractions – like Coburn’s holding penalty last night. Changing the complexion of the game is what the NHL officials do best nowadays as this “new NHL” mantra has given the “green light” for the officials to call what they want, when they want, whenever they want – and in most cases – usually on the team that’s leading.
2010 PLAYOFFS: STANLEY CUP FINALS
HOSSA'S REVENGE: Will the 3rd time be the first time Hossa hoists Lord Stanley's chalice?
This is the NHL... where the SCF must always go 7 games.
With few exceptions.
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
Agree on the line shuffle
but this is what I would like to see from Q:
Brouwer-Toews-Hossa: Hossa has been the best player for the Hawks this series, so he can help the struggling Toews. Plus Hossa vs. Pronger will be a good matchup. Brouwer won’t fuck it up like Buff.
Eager-Sharp-Kane: Eager will provide that spark I think Kane needs to get goin. He has been having a good series too.
Buff-Bolland-Versteeg: Buff has been downright terrible. If Pronger still wants to go after Buff, I’d be happy if it’s against this line.
Ladd-Madden-Kopecky: You can almost switch between the 3rd and 4th line with Ladd and Buff. Buff with the bad series and Ladd recovering from his injury.
How about leave the lines the same just instead of line matching just let the lines take their usual shift lengths and let the players get into the flow of the game. Once the ’Hawks have the lead late then revert to matching lines, but until then, just let it be.
My only change: Leave Sopel and Boynton together as a pairing and let the top 4 defencemen share the bulkload of ice-time – 28+ minutes for both D2K and Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson and Campbell. Remember Game 6 is on Wednesday so 2 days off after tomorrow.
2010 PLAYOFFS: STANLEY CUP FINALS
HOSSA'S REVENGE: Will the 3rd time be the first time Hossa hoists Lord Stanley's chalice?
I agree on the defense
but when your top line is not producing, some shakeup is needed at some time. The time seems right with the series tied and were back at home.
Hossa must be thinking
“Here we go again.” What a nightmare for him to go through the exact same thing as last year to this point, up 2-0 then coming back home with series at even. Hopefully the final outcome is different.
by hawkswin!hawkswin! on Jun 5, 2010 12:09 PM CDT reply actions
that game did not rock
Self-Proclaimed President of the Castro Boobird Face Kicking Club
The Chicago Blackhawks: The only Chicago team worth caring about.
I'm impressed at how early this is up
I’m optimistic because I have to be, and the third period didn’t suck balls, so there’s that.
and I’ve been up for three whole hours so I think it’s time to go back to bed.
Watch it with the jinxing!
Time for some thrillin' heroics!
I like to look at it this way:
We more or less dominated the last 10 minutes of that game, meaning we’ve more or less dominated the most recent hockey played in this series. I don’t think that means we’ve “figured out” the Flyers, but if they can keep up that level of play for Game 5 I don’t know if the Flyers will have an answer. It also could imply that the ‘Hawks have woken up & started to bring their previously-absent “A” game. We’ll see.
Agreed
it did seem as if Q’s 3rd period line changes were very effective. Hopefully he keeps things that way. I would like to see Hossa and Toews on the ice together more. Hossa is playing amazing hockey right now and needs to be on the ice as much as possible. He and Toews on the ice together could dominate.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark
I hope it's a good sign...
…but not all that encouraging to me when it took them going down 3 goals to turn it up. Sure they made it close, but you knew the Flyers would probably relax a bit (go into the rope a dope) and the Hawks would put some pressure on (not unlike the Flyers did to the Hawks when they were down 2-0 in game two).
They need to find the right recipe to address the Flyers physical play and aggressive forecheck for 60 minutes. If they can be sharper with their passes and elevate their total game, that is what will bring the results they want.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I think part of it was the Flyers taking their foot off the pedal
but another part was almost certainly due to Q messing around with the lines. I think if Q changes the lines about in Game 5, the Flyers’ defense will have trouble keeping up. Hopefully the line-jumbling last night wasn’t a one-off thing.
I would rather not see the line of Bolland-Versteeg-Kane for 60 minutes tomorrow night. That would be a nightmare waiting to happen.
2010 PLAYOFFS: STANLEY CUP FINALS
HOSSA'S REVENGE: Will the 3rd time be the first time Hossa hoists Lord Stanley's chalice?
Okay Sam....
….and almighty Triumverate – I’ll calm the fuck down.
Again, as I commented on the last thread, SCH is great knowing others are here to share our emotional tempest when things seem to be going poorly. It’s good to have the voice of reason as my hockey therapist.
So please, with sugar on top, kick their orange-clad asses.
"...about six feet from the moose's butt."
by The Fearless Freep on Jun 5, 2010 12:24 PM CDT reply actions
I fucking hate orange
Hossa's Attorney says:
TAKE OFF THOSE CLOWN SHOES OR I WILL SHOOT THIS DOG!
by BigCSouthside on Jun 5, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Good, sensible recap, Sam.
If we’d all been asked back in October if we’d take a best of 3 series for the Cup, with 2 of those games on home ice … well, ya, we’d all have taken it gladly. I like our chances.
Regardless of what happened in Philly in games 3 and 4 … if we go up 3-2, now that’s going to feel mighty fine.
www.mjt.org
Niemi
First time he’s had two average performances in a row in these playoffs. He’s due for a spectacular one. I wouldn’t mind seeing the SJ series Niemi tomorrow.
by hawkswin!hawkswin! on Jun 5, 2010 12:29 PM CDT reply actions
Let me pose this question to the unwashed masses -
What happens to low seeds that make it to the Stanley Cup Finals?
What happened to the 2003 Ducks?
What happened to the 2004 Flames?
What happened to the 2006 Oilers?
Granted all of those series went 7 games, and the Flyers are not a typical 7 seed, but take heart, Blackhawks Nation.
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame.
And as an honorable mention
The 1999 Buffalo Sabres.
Granted, that series didn’t go 7. But it did go to triple OT in Game 6 and could have easily gone 7.
But in the end, the better team going into the series ultimately prevailed. And like Fels said, nothing worth winning comes easy.
by Brandon Bibb on Jun 5, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
those are very encouraging facts
thank you for posting these
by hawkswin!hawkswin! on Jun 5, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
IMO, the NHL will make this go 7 games if they can...
And then it is up to the players.
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
I smell photoshop on this one!
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
James Madison is my Hero!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 6, 2010 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
am I the only one
that thinks that the Hawks need to win this in 6 or it bodes badly?
Not getting ahead of things – game 5 first, but really, I feel like if the Hawks don’t do like they did to Calgary last year and let this Flyers team come into a game 7, it lays out badly.
The Flyers have been playing with house money the whole playoffs – they really seemed loose heading back to Philly and now here we are . . .
I don't think 7 games bodes badly at all
Either each team will have held serve in its own building, or the Hawks will have won a do-or-die game after a Philly win here. Either way, it’s good. And since that 7th game would be here, it’s all good.
"Eighty-five percent of the fuckin' world's working. The other fifteen come out here." - Lee Elia
by TenMinuteMisconduct on Jun 5, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I feel good about a game 7 (if necessary)
Also, I have tickets. But I am NOT rooting for a game seven.
by Andrew Cieslak on Jun 5, 2010 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions
By that logic
If the Hawks lose game 5 and win game 6, they should be in the drivers seat.
Just win game 5, and then win one of the next two.
by Bellwether Meltdown on Jun 5, 2010 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
As much as we all told ourselves this...
We knew winning the Cup wouldn’t be easy. I just don’t think any of us wanted it to be this hard. Our hearts are definitely paying the price and i’m sure quite a few of us have lost a couple years on their life watching this series. That being said, we know we’re the better hockey team when we both play at our bests. Now it’s time to actually play our best hockey when it’s needed most. These guys know what’s at stake, and if they don’t, guys like Hossa and Madden will make damn sure they do. Chances at Lord Stanley’s bling might never come again for some of these guys, so it’s time they step up and play some real Chicago Blackhawk hockey and make all us long-suffering fans proud. LET’S GO HAWKS!!!
"Everything I know about life, I learned from my father watching the Blackhawks. It can all be summed up in 2 words, 2 simple words that ring over and over in my memory. Detroit Sucks!!! Detroit Sucks!!!"
I agree
I knew winning the Cup wouldn’t be easy. The Flyers are a very good team. But, it would be nice if the refs would call the games consistently. I saw cross-checking and hooking infractions that were completely overlooked by the refs last night.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark
As far as the officiating goes it really would help the ‘Hawks if they’d just stay the fuck out of the way early in games. Let both teams get into the flow of the game and just let it settle before calling absurb penalties while missing blatant interference and slashing calls.
Giving the ’Hawks 2 early penalties and hand the Flyers the opportunity to score that – all important for them – first goal was a gift in a hand basket for Philadelphia.
2010 PLAYOFFS: STANLEY CUP FINALS
HOSSA'S REVENGE: Will the 3rd time be the first time Hossa hoists Lord Stanley's chalice?
That I completely agree with.
The Hawks need to calm the fuck down early on and just get into a rhythm. Once a team starts taking stupid penalties the refs seem to put a microscope on that team.
years on your life....
i love your comment , i am one of you guys who is freaking out here….calm down..LET"S GO HAWKS!!!!!!! go hoss!!! GO HOSS!!!!!!
by CHICAGO STADIUM on Jun 5, 2010 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Excellent comments...
…and absolutely spot on.
If someone told me a few weeks ago, the Hawks would be 2-2 in the cup finals with home ice, I would have taken it and run. I know that is cliche (and they were up 2-0), but winning series is all about how a team responds from game to game, and I do believe the Hawks will respond.
Lastly, the Flyers have a good team, and they happen to be playing very well in the playoffs. Their physical play has neutralized the Hawks for the most part, and in reality, the Hawks are probably fortuanate they aren’t down 3-1 right now. Game 4 was close at the end, but it is really the only game so far in the series, were one team clearly deserved to win it and they did.
Bottom line, if the Hawks can’t adjust (and step up their game) moving forward, they don’t deserve to win this thing. With that said, I’ll stick to my prediction before this started – Hawks in 6.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I'm pretty much over
…the lack of calls being made by the refs. They’ve shown for 4 games that they’re not calling Pronger for anything, that they’re not going to make any calls consistently, and that basically we can’t expect anything to be as it was up until now. Interference calls are a thing of the past, and a team with more speed than size relies on those calls to get its power play chances. I’m not bitching about it, it’s just the way it is, and it sets the Hawks back a little bit imo. Are there ways to overcome the “let them play” attitude in this series? Of course there are. Find a way, boys. Great teams always find a way.
"Eighty-five percent of the fuckin' world's working. The other fifteen come out here." - Lee Elia
by TenMinuteMisconduct on Jun 5, 2010 12:50 PM CDT reply actions
Pronger could literally kill Buff and it would be a no call....
…your absolutely right, good teams adjust and the Hawks need to adjust to the lack of calls.
I'd bet the ranch...
…the Hawks get some calls they haven’t got so far in game 5.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I'd love for that to happen
but the Fifth Feather said it would happen in Game 4 &, well, you know how that turned out. As I said, it would be nice, but we can’t count on it.
Your counting on Bill McCreary to do that?
2010 PLAYOFFS: STANLEY CUP FINALS
HOSSA'S REVENGE: Will the 3rd time be the first time Hossa hoists Lord Stanley's chalice?
*You’re
2010 PLAYOFFS: STANLEY CUP FINALS
HOSSA'S REVENGE: Will the 3rd time be the first time Hossa hoists Lord Stanley's chalice?
I miss when they would let you play
in the finals or in the playoffs, each round you would notice less and less calls. No excuse but I feel it makes it more intense if your not being called every 10 mins for an infraction
I think the 5 on 3 we got in the 3rd last game was meant to even that out
I’d be shocked if they called anything even next game.
by Ban on Jun 5, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Preds fan here...
Well, for the duration of the season, I’m a Central Division fan. Well, not the Wings, but you know…
Let it be known I’m still all-in rooting for you guys, but the Hossa thing scares the hell out of me. Although it’s not him playing poorly (this time).
Also, it sure doesn’t help to see Pronger getting away with total log rape. Well, that and the Flyers’ passing has been nothing short of amazing.
Hawks in 7.
And I fucking hate the Hawks. But I mean that in the nicest of ways.
Cheers
We appreciate being told by people who aren’t ‘Hawks fans that Pronger’s getting away with murder. It makes us feel like we’re not part of the tinfoil-hat brigade.
Thing about Pronger
Doesn’t everyone hate the guy besides his own team’s fans? And even those are mostly reluctant converts? It’s not going to hard to get sympathy when it comes to Pronger being an asshole. It’s not just us – he really is a fucking asshole.
by Andrew Cieslak on Jun 5, 2010 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, but that's an asset in Philly
His behavior and reputation are a perfect match for the Flyers image. The only reluctance when the trade was announced was that he was too old to put people in the hospital anymore and that they were mortgaging the future. Now nobody cares about the future and hope he’ll take over for Jack Bauer during the off-season.
I am among a probable minority of Flyers fan who would be happier if there was less reason/need for teams to keep a guy like Carcillo on the roster. But I’ve coveted Pronger since the first time I watched him play and am thrilled with every cheap shot, crosscheck, and mind game. It’s a man’s game etc. etc. and the Flyers are supposed to be lawless and hated. The two NHL players since Clarke retired who possessed as much of those qualities and all-star talent to go with it are Pronger and Lindros. So we feel fortunate over here.
by flyersfaninchicago on Jun 5, 2010 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, and Scott Stevens. The one that got away
I always try to forget about him, for obvious reasons.
by flyersfaninchicago on Jun 5, 2010 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you thrilled with this kind of “cheap shot”: the guy is good, ya but he’s a pitiful menace …
www.mjt.org
That's on the other side of the line for me, sure, but
he did his time (eight games, i think) and has returned to be a productive member of society. I’m pretty sure that was his last suspension.
Think of Pronger as a taller Boyd Crowder, from Justified. He found Jesus during his last suspension and he’s just misunderstood by everyone now.
by flyersfaninchicago on Jun 6, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Pronger is still the same Pronger of 2006 and 2007 where he was the ultimate villian for the opponents of every series for 5 games and then hiberated for Game’s 6 and 7. Hopefully the same will happen here.
2010 PLAYOFFS: STANLEY CUP FINALS
HOSSA'S REVENGE: Will the 3rd time be the first time Hossa hoists Lord Stanley's chalice?
hopefully one game earlier, too
Self-Proclaimed President of the Castro Boobird Face Kicking Club
The Chicago Blackhawks: The only Chicago team worth caring about.
by jesus christos on Jun 5, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Olympics Pronger
I don’t remember him being that dominant in Vancouver. I guess I’m wondering why such a drastic change.
by hawkswin!hawkswin! on Jun 5, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
The officiating
would not allow it. He also wasn’t on the top defensive line and didn’t have to try and shut down other teams elite lines.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
hehe
this made me smile.
“Your attention please… management requests that all persons entering or exiting the band-wagon please wait until it comes to a complete stop. Your co-operation is sincerely appreciated. That is all.”
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
by burpchelischili on Jun 5, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Really. Game 5, home ice, raucious crowd – everything changes. Score early and limit the Flyers in the first period where they’ve scored 7 of their 15 goals ( if you take away the Carter EN that’s 50% of their offensive production for the series) then the whole complexion of the series changes.
We all know Game 6 is in Philadelphia were they have won 10 straight against us and are 9-1 for this postseason, but what was Vancouver’s home record against us going into the series last season? How about SJ this year? Eventually the young pup is going to steal that bone from the old dog. Just sayin’.
2010 PLAYOFFS: STANLEY CUP FINALS
HOSSA'S REVENGE: Will the 3rd time be the first time Hossa hoists Lord Stanley's chalice?
WTF is going on?
The turn-overs inside our blueline were effing brutal. I’m not losing faith as much as I’m getting pissed and wanting to slap them all and yell “You’re professionals!! Play like it!!”
Last night was so bad that when somone near me started yelling “Hit somebody!” I found myself thinking “fuck yeah.”
I agree with everything Sam said but one thing:
We have the better teamWe have the better players, Q is being outcoached.
There is no try. There's do and there's fu(%ing up royal
by Johnny Lava on Jun 5, 2010 1:41 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I contend that their players
executing at a level a notch higher than our players in all areas of the game for large portions of the four games played thus far is not being outcoached. That’s being outplayed by the other team.
"Life is a long lesson in humility."
- James M. Barrie
That’s being outplayed
Not really at least not at equal strength. The Hawks have been and still are winning at 5on5. This pretty much matches expectations.
What hasn’t really met expectations has been special teams. This is true for both the Hawks performance and the number of penalties called each way.
You would expect the Hawks to have given up 2 or 3 goals on the Power Kill in 4 games. They have given up 5. I’d put 2.5 of those on them and another .5 goals on the greater frequency they are being called for penalties.
You’d expect the Flyers to have given up 3 goals on their Power Kill. They have only given up one. I’d put .8 of those goals on the clown shoes Hawks PP and another on 1.2 on the infrequency the Flyers are being called for penalties.
So that’s -3.3 goals on them and -1.8 goals on the “refs” choices of penalties. So that is over a 5 goal swing so far in 4 games.
Since there doesn’t appear to be anything they can do about the refs, they really need to clean up their own special teams. If their special teams on both side met expectations, this series would probably already be over…
I'm curious
What measure are you using when you say they are winning 5on5?
I’m not a big stat analysis guy. I rely on the dreaded “eye test”. And my eyes are telling me that the Hawks are getting outplayed in most areas. Not by alot mind you. But just enough to have cost them two games they very well could have won otherwise, and make their two wins the heart attack inducing, antacid chewing affairs that they were.
I’m definitely not adverse to being convinced otherwise with sound number crunching. But I don’t know where the numbers you cited come from or the basis for your 5on5 statement.
Please convince me. It can only help my mental stability right now to know that they are not being outplayed to the extent my faulty eyes would lead me to believe.
"Life is a long lesson in humility."
- James M. Barrie
If you read The Copper & Blue
you surely have seen their posts on scoring chances. Here’s what they had to say after Game 3:
After one game I was surprised. And then I was surprised again. And now I’ve been surprised for a third time. For three consecutive games, the Flyers have outchanced the Blackhawks by a 4:3 margin or better. For three consecutive games the Flyers haven’t looked out of place. In fact, for three consecutive games, the Flyers have been the better team everywhere except between the pipes.
You can flip through, but in terms of even-strength scoring chances, the Flyers won two games by +4 margins and were tied with the ’Hawks in the other two. In terms of total chances, the Flyers won by +7, +6, and +8 before the ’Hawks won Game 4 by 2 chances.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 5, 2010 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions
The Copper & Blue
Look I really don’t have any interest in getting into another discussion with you. But I am going to respond once again to the Copper & Blue references…
The C&B stuff is interesting but in my opinion still needs some serious work especially in their conclusions.
There isn’t any distinction between the quality of the scoring chances.
There isn’t any distinction between the ability of the shooter to actually score.
There isn’t even any distinction between the quality of the actual shot. Goals scored sometimes aren’t even counted as scoring chances. Then a shot that doesn’t even hit the net is considered a scoring chance. Really?
And if you pay attention to C&B then you have to determine that Leighton is a pretty crappy goalie since at one stretch there were 6 scoring chances against him and five goals scored. The only scoring chance missed was of course put back in on the rebound.
I think it is really interesting information but its not any more gospel then Corsi or Fenwick or any other measure. Also there is an interesting article on C&B about the difference between quality shot teams and quantity shot teams.
Fine enough
But if you judge based not just on goals but on shots, how can you throw out scoring chances? Scoring chances slide right in between goals and shots, especially when all of your criticisms (no distinction between quality of chances, ability of shooters, and quality of the shot) can all be transferred straight to your “Corsi” rationale. I know this, because whenever I introduce Corsi and Fenwick scores, everyone shouts about how unreliable they are and that scoring chances would be better.
Further, if you’ve come to the conclusion that Leighton is a pretty crappy goalie, then even your “outscoring at 5on5” rationale comes under fire. Just because a goal is scored doesn’t mean it was the result of outplaying the opposition.
Really, it’s a circular argument. Goals and shots show the ’Hawks being better at 5on5. Chances (which includes goals and shots) show the Flyers being better. And if the Flyers goalie sucks, that really weakens your goals argument.
But if you noticed, I didn’t say the Flyers were outplaying the ’Hawks. I simply provided data to counteract your conclusion, which you then weakened yourself.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 5, 2010 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions
if you’ve come to the conclusion that Leighton is a pretty crappy goalie,
I didn’t say that Leighton was a crappy goalie, C&B said Leighton was a crappy goalie. If you are going to be paying attention to C&B’s conclusions then you have to pay attention to their conclusion on your goalie. You can’t just pick and choose.
The Hawks played an 82 game season and had a 36 goal differential 5on5 compared to the Flyers. They have continued that in this series. I’m not worried about 5on5 and I think I am entitled to say as much over here.
Look I’m not really interested in trying to talk to somebody on the Chicago site that lets morons on his own site say the stupidest stuff (like how their second best dman is better then the Hawks Keith) but then has a hissyfit when I use a Tom Awad stat like GVT to disagree. You didn’t have any problem with your other guy randomly fuckin’ with that stat either.
You are correct sir! You can’t dress something that is better suited for Bayesian analysis in a Frequenist skirt.
People on your site dismiss the C&B chances as useless information and you don’t say squat to them. But when it suits your purpose, you come over here and use them like it means something?
I should clarify: The quote by that guy would have received a warning if not more, and I don’t want to discourage you from sharing these people’s rantings.
And if you are going to be encouraging people on your site to make fun of people from this site, exactly what makes you think its ok to come over here?
Look dude, I really don’t have any respect for you so I really don’t want to have any more conversations with you. I’m sure there are some apologists around here that will rush to your defense but personally, I have no use for you whatsoever…
haha
Wow. You feel better getting all of that stuff off your chest?
a) If you think you’re “entitled to say as much over here”, why should I not allow someone to say Timonen is better than Keith on theirs and my site? Hypocricy much?
b) I’m glad you thought I threw a “hissyfit” by simply pointing out the flaws in GVT which render half of the stat nearly meaningless. And my response to a guy “randomly fuckin’ with that stat” led to him saying “I was pretty sure what I was doing was GVT blasphemy”, so not only did I have a problem with it, I told him he can’t do it.
c) Not only did I not say people dismiss C&B chances, when they dismiss Corsi and Fenwick I DO say something. But I’m not going to force people to agree with my conclusions or analysis.
d) Again, telling someone they can copy and paste offensive comments from this or any other site to BSH rather than going over and trolling might seem ludicrous to you. But it’s a lot more respectful than having him or any other member of our site go troll on that site and start a fight. And it’s not like I said “go ahead and call people scum or threaten to stab them”.
But whatever, lose respect for me because I told somebody that if they want to quote a member of SCH saying “Pronger and Carcillo probably burn a church and lead a gang rape of some poor, homeless grandmother.” they should put it in blockquotes. Maybe I lack your respect because I wouldn’t allow someone to post that Hossa and Toews are members of the KKK who molest and stab infants. Either way, I’m sorry to lose such a reasonable, well-mannered, completely rational fan such as yourself.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 6, 2010 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions
C'mon you two
have a few beers together, get so drunk that you love everything, and hug it out.
If people judged me by some of my individual comments instead of my overall body of work, they might actually think I was an asshole.
Wait, what??? Oh, fuck all you guys.
Turds!
Spaulding, how many times have I spoken to you about your language?
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 6, 2010 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions
haha
I am an asshole, I admit it. I just can’t stand the fact that I’m not respected because I didn’t censor a SCH comment posted on BSH. I didn’t say it, I couldn’t delete it, I couldn’t ban the poster, but I’m not worthy of respect.
Do you want to go have a few beers? I can bitch about Michael Leighton the whole time if you want.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 6, 2010 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions
I asked my wife
she said “No.”
(SCHers know this to be true)
Turds!
Spaulding, how many times have I spoken to you about your language?
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 6, 2010 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions
it's true
short leash.
And what the hell conversation did i miss here??? The things you miss when you ban yourself from this site for a day….
by puppetmasterp on Jun 6, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed. Write out your arguments and insults
in the form of a Broadway musical duet, set to “People Will Say We’re in Love” from Oklahoma.
Work out your harmonies in time for a Philadelphia/Chicago pubcast tomorrow night in the useless 15 minutes between the top of the hour and puck drop.
By the end of the song you’ll be best friends.
“Your IQ’s Sixteen, going on Seventeen…”
by flyersfaninchicago on Jun 6, 2010 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Mixing "Oklahoma"
with “Sound of Music” has got to be considered bad form, doesn’t it?
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
by burpchelischili on Jun 6, 2010 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions
They were drinking heavily, per my suggestion
and got really Hammerstein’d
Turds!
Spaulding, how many times have I spoken to you about your language?
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 6, 2010 1:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bastard!
annoys me that you thought of it and I didn’t. lol
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
by burpchelischili on Jun 6, 2010 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Depends on which statistical method you use
Speaking of which, doesn’t “Copper & Blue” sound like the weekly newsletter of the Oxford Badminton/Gilbert & Sullivan Society. Why not “Sang & Froid.” “Scrapple &Wurst” “Domi & Probert”
Oh no, a Red Wings reference. I just soiled your SCH carpet. I’m really sorry. Let me hit the cancel button.
Crap. Missed.
by flyersfaninchicago on Jun 6, 2010 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Out damned Spot!
Now you must have your nose rubbed in it!
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
by burpchelischili on Jun 6, 2010 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I have no issue with the whole copy and paste dealeo
But it is kinda unfortunate that the sarcasm just does not carry with it (not intentionally, mind you). If I for a second believed that type of comment for face value, well I would not be sitting happy. But shit, you should learn about the “Uncle Neimi” reference, the obvious sarcasm is what made it okay, hell hilarious as well!
Like some tell new ones here, take nothing we say serious (except the serious stuff) and be prepared for sarcasm. If you do not know this is how many here are, odds are you might just find it offensive or be like WTF!
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
James Madison is my Hero!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 6, 2010 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions
That's understandable
but all I said was blockquote it, and I’m being accused of instigating an argument that didn’t even start from that. A different quote, where a different poster said “chicago must not be good at math” was what started a fight. And I’m being blamed because I told someone else they can blockquote an entirely unrelated comment. It’s just ludicrous, really.
But the sarcasm aspect really doesn’t travel and BSH isn’t really a sarcastic place. The only thing I can think off where we do sarcasm is mocking one of our own-blog-trolls. But he doesn’t come around after wins, because, well, that’s what trolls do.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 6, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I really think it stems down to
The perception is most on BSH either really believe or perpetuate the belief all Hawks fans must be bandwagoners. That in itself, meh whatever. I think what really shortened the fuse was when some (myself included) tried to explain why alot, not all, Hawks fans starting coming back or showing up when Dollar Bill Died, like me and others here. Several called BS among other things, and I think that hit the chord. I know why I did not follow the Hawks for many years, and to have someone else tell me “No” that is not why, “But it was X, Y, and Z”, and I should have done “1, 2, and 3”, well that is not going to sit well with all. Like I said We(I) know why we came back, if they do not get it, sure whatever, but to tell me I that is not the reason or whatever is not going to build bridges, you know what I mean.
I think either one of these on there own, no biggy, but when they came together like they did, it was just waiting to explode, and when some started going off on Hawks fans “Not knowing what a Blue line is”, “Can’t do math”, among many many other similar comments, the fuse hit the explosive.
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
James Madison is my Hero!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 6, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I haven't been back over at BSH since Fri (and barely on SCH)
but look like i didn’t miss much new. some people have open minds, and i’m thankful for that. others are just hard-headed, and at this point i feel like i’ve got better things to do or talk about.
by puppetmasterp on Jun 6, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
That's died down a bit
except maybe during the gameday threads. Can’t speak to those, since I’m not on the computer during the games and really only visit the postgame threads. This time of year, you have people on both sides who don’t represent the boards as they normally are. It’s true on BSH, it’s true at the Good Phight (in October), and it’s true here too. Some people live to trash talk.
What I have seen is some take the “88 point Flyers don’t belong on the same ice as the Hawks” comments (see Overserved’s comment below, minus the attempt to at least back up the argument) and attribute them to the whole SCH/Hawks fan clan. This becomes a problem when a good but contrary point is brought up there, as posters are already defensive and take it the wrong way.
Not saying it’s right, but I think that’s part of the deal.
We've got that here, too
Sadly, between the rash of FanPosts (which I personally don’t mind, but some do) and silly comments, it’s drove away some of the regulars, too.
STOP IT RIGHT THERE!!!!
Why am I being dragged into this? And if you are going to drag me in at least have the decency to quote something I actually said…I never said: the "88 point Flyers don’t belong on the same ice as the Hawks". And if we subtract everyone’s rationale behind their stated points all we will be left with is a never-ending barrage of name calling and "you suck!" "No YOU SUCK!!!!" "Well… YOU SUCK MORE!!!!" posts. What is this….grade school?
I have never even been to BSH much less posted there. If I were to venture over to BSH what could I reasonably expect to find…a group of like minded individuals such as myself? Not hardly; which is why I chose to come here and read what my fellow Blackhawk fans think and what those running this site think about this series as well as post my opinions on the series.
If you have something to say to me then please reply to my comments, and I will be happy to engage you in a meaningful discussion on all matters pertaining to this series. If not then please leave me out of it.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
You are right
that you don’t post on BSH, that I am here on your turf (so to speak) and I apologize for offending you. That was not my intention.
I cited your post specifically because it reflected the general attitude towards the Flyers that I wished to point out. I was already in the middle of responding to the post above when I saw it, knew it was relevant to the point I was making, and decided to incorporate it. Geoff was doing a good job articulating counter points that I (generally) agreed with and didn’t feel like I had anything to add beyond that.
Again, I apologize for offending you and will aim in the future to avoid this from happening again.
re: "good but contrary point"
I think the difficulty is that it’s difficult for an outsider to filter out posts (or know which ones need more salt than others) due to the nature of the commenters themselves. I think if you knew who to listen to, you’d realize that most of the reasonable folk around here don’t think the 88 point thing doesn’t count for shit.
That said, my homer impression is that we do try to foster some relatively balanced discussion (though any home blog will be a little biased, that’s what makes it a home blog), as long as it’s done in a civil manner — any time shots are fired, the good points get lost in the scrum that follows.
And you guys do a good job of it
I’m not on every opposing blog, after all. This is a great community that you guys should be proud of building (and that I hope I will be welcome to continue posting at after this series).
And BSH has these issues too. I read here a bit before posting too much and know that there was split opinion on the 88 point matter (and have said as much on BSH when it comes up). The problem is that those problematic quotes are the ones that make their way over there and it gets people riled up.
For now, here’s to a good game tonight without injuries.
That's completely understandable
and it certainly was going to blow at some point. But the “math isn’t taught in chicago” part I didn’t even think twice about. It was said after quoting “Granted they do not get the fact 90% of what we say in 120% Sarcastic Bullshit”, so I thought the response was fairly comical. At the time, it was taken the wrong way, which, as you said, should be expected. A sarcastic comment follows, then a guy goes way over the line.
But yeah, as soon as I read the 90-120 comment I thought of Anchorman, but tensions were high. These things happen.
(Oh, and the people who don’t understand why fans left during Bill’s tenure piss me off. All they have to do is look to the Phillies in the late 90s, and they were ON local tv.)
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 6, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly what is so ludicrous about it?
If you give people “carte blanche” permission to “mock people and act like assholes” on your site, well, what do you think will happen?
They are going to mock people and act like assholes.
And I’m sorry but “I don’t want to discourage you from sharing these people’s rantings.” is giving people carte blanche permission to mock people and act like assholes…
And the problem with giving that kind of permission is that people will take advantage of it in ways you probably didn’t want them too. Like exactly the situation that happened.
So I’m sorry but NO, don’t come over here “acting all innocent” when things got out of hand over on your site. I knew the moment I read your post that things were going to get ugly over there. I’m sorry if you let people be assholes, they will be assholes…
Really, is that so hard to understand?
What's so hard to understand
Is that Person A blockquoting asshole B does not make Person A an asshole. It’s showing how much of an asshole Person B is.
And when person C makes a completely asshole comment not at all related to person A’s blockquoting of person B, you’re just being mad that Person C himself is an asshole and blaming me for him being an asshole.
So quoting an asshole makes one an asshole? And allowing an asshole to be quoted allows for another asshole to be an asshole?
In case you didn’t follow, A quotes B. Ten minutes later, we find out C is an asshole in an entirely different conversation, and I’m to blame because I allowed A to quote B? Sorry, I can’t be responsible for every asshole who you think only became one after reading an asshole.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 9, 2010 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions
What measure are you using when you say they are winning 5on5?
The simplest one of all, goals scored 5on5. They were 10 to 6 but after shots going in from defenders backs it is now only 12 to 9.
They are also +17 on the Corsi for the series 5on5 if you care about that. That’s more a measure of possession and sometimes has more to do with who is behind.
What’s been hurting the Hawks is the Flyers PP. That is what they need to tighten up…
Sometimes…Lucky is better than good.
And Philly has been LUCKY. Flyers fans would claim their goals are the result of "hard work", but not really. They have 14 goals (not counting Carter’s EN in game 4) and more than a few of them were either in the net off a Hawks player, directly to a Flyer’s tape, or the puck turned into a tennis ball around the net and eventually got scored. Conversely, Leighton has been flat out beat on the majority of the Hawks goals. Philly averaged 16.5 penalty minutes per game in the regular season; discount majors (which were arguably mostly fighting majors) and they still averaged 11.5 penalty minutes per game. But in the Finals?…Philly has 4.5 penalty minutes per game; and NONE in game 1. The Hawks averaged 8.7 penalty minutes per game in the regular season (not counting majors) and have averaged 8 penalty minutes per game in the Finals. Is Philly playing that much more disciplined all of a sudden?
Game 4 was nothing short of a gift to Philly from the Hawks. Aside from Richards’ PP goal, which was a great effort and shot that Niemi probably wants back, Philly’s goals were as easy as pie. Hammer should have gotten an assit on Carle’s goal, Giroux gets the Red Carpet treatment to the side of the net, and Leino misses the net so bad the he hits Steeger in the back and the puck goes in over Niemi’s head. That’s not being outplayed…that’s being out-lucked.
I go back to game 3. If the Hawks convert on one of their 3 PP chances, or only give up 1 PP goal instead of 2, or Versteeg scores on that glorious chance in OT…the Hawks win Game 3. I know, I know…and if the queen had balls she’d be king. But all this "outplayed" shit would never have surfaced. Even with the same result in game 4 all everyone would be saying is that the Hawks best players are not contributing much and the Hawks are just so deep the Flyers can’t hang with them.
It’s time to stop with the Christmas in June bullshit and pound these pukes into the ground.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
Well,
since I’m here…
I’d honestly draw a conclusion in the middle. Most of the Flyers goals are the result of hard work, just like most of the Blackhawks goals are. And that, to me, says neither team is “outplaying” the other since I think every game has been very close. There are certainly stretches of time though, where one team is outplaying the other. But it tends to even out which is why it’s no surprise we’ve had 4 one-goal games (not counting Carter’s EN).
Lastly, the Flyers might be one of the unluckiest teams in the league, so Leino’s goal was like finding $20 in your pocket. It almost never happens.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 6, 2010 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions
not so fast...
Not just Leino’s game 4 goal, but his goal in game 2 goes off Niemi off Hendry’s leg and right to Leino on the open side. Carle’s goal in game 4 was a gift from Hjalmarsson. Hartnell’s PP goal in game 3 goes between Niemi’s legs and barely crosses the line by rolling on edge. And several others were off of second and third chances.
The Hawks goals were largely off shots that simply beat Leighton clean. Versteeg banged home his own rebound in game 1. Hossa had a rebound goal in game 2. And Campbell’s goal in game 4 trickled in between Toews and Richards. All the rest if I remember correctly were just shots that beat Leighton or Boucher.
The Flyers have 5 PP goals to the Hawks 1. The Flyers also have 7 more PP opportunities than the Hawks which puts the Hawks on the kill and disrupts the offensive flow of their game. And the Flyers are winning in what I like to call the "ugly goal" battle. But the Hawks are very close to cashing in on the loose play around the net, and when they finally do (and I think it will happen in game 5) they are likely to score in bunches. Then the Flyers will be back to saying we got all bounces as they did after the first 2 games.
I just feel that the Hawks have kept this series close without getting many fortunate bounces, whereas the Flyers would be doomed if not for their fortunate bounces; not to mention the calls / non-calls from the guys in the striped pajamas. Just my opinion though.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
Well
You look at those goals and see lucky bounces. But just because Hjalmarsson gets pick pocketed by Richards or is out of position on Carle’s goal isn’t luck. Hartnell’s power play goal, while barely crossing the line, isn’t really luck either. Especially considering the puck in overtime that went from post-to-post while riding the line.
It really isn’t an important debate since you could see luck and I could see hard work on individual goals. That’s going to happen. But most Flyers fans would see the ’Hawks goals and consider them lucky based on Leighton being, well, Leighton.
Long story, I think the series is pretty much even and either team could have won any of the four games.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 6, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Margaret Thatcher has the balls of a king, and does not believe in luck
"I do not know anyone who has got to the top without hard work. That is the recipe. It will not always get you to the top, but should get you pretty near."
She played field hockey in school. Her favorite singer: Kate Smith.
by flyersfaninchicago on Jun 6, 2010 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions
A Perfect Example
of what’s wrong with today’s world of text messaging
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
Rec'd
“You’re professionals!! Play like it!!"
How is it that someone (anyone) who has been playing the game for 3/4 of his life (or more) can regularly achieve the following:
1) At a distance of 40-60 feet, with nobody really in his grill, miss a 6×4 target by a foot or more? Count the number of times “Dick” “Douche” “Doc” Emrick says “shot it wide” or “off the glass”. I’m not talking about obvious deflections, intended bank passes, or issues with the infamous BOUNCING PUCK, but instead shots that are just inexplicably off the mark. We seem to have a lot of that lately… (Dammit BUFF!)
2) Trying to dump the puck in or out of the zone, and hitting the only guy within 20 feet right in the skates or legs. Turnover ensues. As great as Dunc has been during most of the playoffs, he seems to be doing this way too often. Soupy and Catfish have been guilty, too.
Flame away…
Where's Al Secord when you need him?
I played Soccer
up to pro level, and I could easily miss that goal, so I can see hitting a puck on net might result in a miss. The only thing I don’t think I ever missed, was when I got pissed at the refs, I’d slam them with the ball. A lot.
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
by burpchelischili on Jun 6, 2010 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions
thanks for the sensible recap sam
very good points. esp regarding sopes and hammer. at least one of my wishes was granted and campbell played 22 min last night
The only good things
that happened in the last two games in Philadelphia are that I didn’t break any furniture or my TV and my aneurysm clips didn’t pop.
Seriously, I’m hoping with all of the shuffling of lines that were made, the coaching staff has figured out the combination(s) that work best and can be taken advantage of with home ice.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
I may need to buff out some remote control shaped indentations from my coffee table...
Where's Al Secord when you need him?
by MrBeeg on Jun 5, 2010 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If they're not getting any help then they have to play to match that idea
As I Tweeted last night, all I could think as the defense played sloppy or outright disappeared, Antti Niemi’s must’ve felt like, “Oh, jeez…” flings team on back “…here we go again.”
Niemi has shown he’s got what’s necessary to get through these games, but defense has consistently left gaps around the net, not to mention letting Flyers freely set up camp in front of the net the way Buff managed to do in earlier series.
Hossa has been playing like he doesn’t want to lose. He doesn’t, we all know that. But maybe he’s not on the best line. I think a 1st line that is something like Toews-Hossa-Eager – because Eager isn’t afraid of dealing w/Pronger, and he is getting things DONE – or Toews-Hossa-Brouwer would help out a lot. Just get Kane and Buff off the 1st line, because that line isn’t producing anything right now.
Maybe drop Buff back to D, or even bench him for a game, if it helps get his head back into what he’s doing.
Also, the refereeing job is clearly not going to be ANY help whatsoever, so the Hawks have to adjust their play accordingly. We can all question whether it’s because NBC/NHL want rantings, but it is GLARINGLY apparently that 1. Pronger is getting away with everything short of murder (including Razzie-worthy acting), and 2. despite the team’s historic record for penalty-heavy play, all of a sudden they’re angels? Baloney. Good post today about that over at Chicago Now – http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-blackhawks-one-goal/2010/06/i-hate-to-be-the-guy-that-brings-up-the-officiating-but.html
So that being the case, the Hawks have to assume they’re going to get zero help in that department, and do all they can to play as clean as possible and just focus. Probably easier said than done (see also: phantom call on Sharp last night).
And if anybody doubts just how crappy the ref calls have been, I’ll present the refs with my mother. She’s watched a grand total of about 4 hockey games in her life, and even SHE could see that the Flyers were consistently getting away with all kinds of penalties in games 1 & 2. When somebody who barely knows the game can see that calls are being uneven, you know something fishy is going on.
by HockeyBroad on Jun 5, 2010 2:54 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
the hawks need to change 3 simple things:
- stop taking stupid fucking penalties
- do not allow scoring in the last minute of the game
- and for fucks sake stop allowing goals right after you score
they do these three things and this series is once again ours
philly cannot skate with us and they know it…theyve forced the hawks to get physical and in turn take really dumb penalties
Q needs to split up buff-kane-buff and hossa somehow and force laviolette to coach and pick his poison
my advice -
hossa-toews-brouwer
kane – sharp – buff
ladd-bolland-steeger
eager-madden-tkop
and keep soupy on the ice for as long as he can
hammer had is worst game ever in the indian head…and shitty time to choose and do so – this will not happen again
this series is starting to remind me of the NSH series…the hawks know they are the more talented team and are content with the other team outworking them and losing games they are fully capable of winning – this needs to change otherwise the hawks will find themselves giving away the cup we all know they should be hoisting
by sec. 317 on Jun 5, 2010 3:06 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
3 simple things...
…but not exactly easy to accomplish against a team that is making it very difficult for the Hawks to play their game.
I picked the Hawks in 6 and I’m sticking to that, but if the Hawks don’t tighten up defensively (they are lucky they aren’t down 3-1 right now), and just get sharper in their overall game, they won’t be lifting the Cup. My gut is telling me this team will respond, and they will need to with their best game on Sunday.
I don’t think this is going 7, and whoever wins game 5 will take it in 6.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Philly...
…is a lot better than Nashville. They have more skill, are more physical and in game three, they had excellent defensive coverage. Their 7th seed is an anomoly, and they are just playing very good right now.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I meant...
…in game 4 they had excellent defensive coverage.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
no doubt
yeah – the steroid comment was mostly w/r/t their forecheck which was pretty ferocious at times last night. If the Hawks could gain the zone, they did well to maintain, but there were some tense moments trying to get there.
and certainly Philly has a lo more offensive depth than NSH
a few tweaks but you are RIGHT ON
points 1-3 are perfect
I would switch Buff and BROWER
and split up DUNC and SEAS to be
DUNC and SOUPY
SEAS and HAMMER
HENDRY and SOPEL play only as a filler can
i thought about
buff and brouwer…but line 2 in my scenario needs some muscle…its been apparent all series kane is getting pushed around
as far as splitting up the D id keep the pairings intact unless we lose game 5 – then anything goes
id have kept hendry up the whole time – i really dont know what Q was thinking in bringing up boynton
I was thinking he was here
to go after PRONGER
All I want is to see is PRONGER in a pool of blood….. his own
Those D pairings
…don’t make sense to me. Who’s going to transition from defense to offense in the Seabrook/Hammer pairing? And who’s going to be the stay-at-home guy in the Keith/Campbell pairing? Yes, Keith/Campbell has “fuck you” written all over it if you decide to think offense first with your d-men, but they can’t play all 60 minutes, and Seabrook/Campbell gives you very little ability to get the d-men into the offense. If you have to break up 72, then I’d go with Keith/Hammer, and Seabrook/Campbell. Actually, getting paired with Keith might help settle Hammer down after a horrible game 4.
"Eighty-five percent of the fuckin' world's working. The other fifteen come out here." - Lee Elia
by TenMinuteMisconduct on Jun 5, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Gah
Seabrook/Campbell gives you very little ability to get the d-men into the offense
I meant Seabrook/Hammer there…
"Eighty-five percent of the fuckin' world's working. The other fifteen come out here." - Lee Elia
by TenMinuteMisconduct on Jun 5, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not opposed to the D pairings you're suggesting
but if you want to make Hammer comfortable again, wouldn’t you put him with the guy he played 68+ games with? I think he knows what to expect with Campbell and can focus solely on sound defense. Not that he couldn’t do that with Keith, but I wonder how much familiarity they have with each other.
Keith/Campbell are not awful on the ice together when they’re rotating 5 d men, but I keep remembering something Campbell said in an interview once when asked about playing with him: essentially, it would be fun but they’d both end up behind the net pinching and no one would be on the point.
by Katherine215 on Jun 5, 2010 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
We’ve seen Jelly-Biscuit before but in a series where we need to move past an aggressive forecheck, I don’t trust either of their abilities. They’re both best as “stay-at-home, I’m-going-to-hit-whatever’s-near, GO-AWAY-PUCK” style defense. Keith & Campbell would mean super speed but if they get beat then it’s just Antti and random forward to defend.
hahaha, GO-AWAY-PUCK is awesome
2 and 51 should be used sparingly, like when I have fudge and eat it a piece at a time since it’s so rich and not very good for you. Oh, wait, that’s fantasy me. Reality me inhales anything chocolate in about 5 seconds flat. But you get the idea.
by Katherine215 on Jun 5, 2010 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
One thing I definitely agree with
Allowing a goal right after a goal of your own is disastrous against these guys. Leino’s goal after Kane’s breakaway in Game 3 and Giroux’s goal after Sharp’s last night were killers. This Philly team rides momentum like they’re on a surfboard, and the momentum keeps getting handed back to them on a platter each time we start to take it away. The first few minutes after a goal need to be the tightest defensive hockey played from this point on.
"Eighty-five percent of the fuckin' world's working. The other fifteen come out here." - Lee Elia
by TenMinuteMisconduct on Jun 5, 2010 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Or...
Bench Tkop, Pull Frazz out of cold storage, move Bolland up with Kane and Buff and resurrect Hammer of the Gods.
Hossa/Towes/Sharp
Kane/Bolland/Buff
Ladd/Madden/Bolland
Eager/Fraz/Steeg
by Bellwether Meltdown on Jun 5, 2010 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Err
The second time I list Bolland… make that Brouwer
by Bellwether Meltdown on Jun 5, 2010 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm done with this siteuntil the season is over
I can’t take the stupidity.
“Keith should skate home”
“Toews and Kane are choking”
“Biggest choke in the history of Chicago sports”
Comments from assholes all three (well 2)
If they are here I’m gone it means the party has devolved. Have a nice last 2 or three games. I’ll see you when it’s over.
"Grumpy Fuck"
I read your sig,
and busted out laughing! Your sig comming at the end of your comment is just fucking priceless. Great stuff.
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
by burpchelischili on Jun 5, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Who was that other guy?
He was ready to jump off the ledge and he hasn’t been back. I had just found this site when that happened.
I don't know if you got my message last night
Found the Hossa-Pronger hit at 12:30 of the 3rd period in Game 3. It’s pretty cool.
or a gif.
gif would be better. I don’t know how to make them, but I’m sure someone on this site knows how.
haha I'll leave it to one of more graphically-inclined to explain that
but thank you for the screencap!
everyone needs to be set to Hossa mode
for game 5, and as usual Edzo was right, good things happened when we directed the puck to the net. give me 40 minutes, just 40 like the last period (especially the last 8) and we win by two. And please dont give advancing attackers open ice the size of montana when they gain the line. Id also like to deploy Hammer of the Gods
Hossa did a good job taking on Pronger on his forecheck, better than anyone else on the team IMO, towards the end it seemed like Pronger had a “Oh shit” moment when he realized that Hossa was coming and he didnt give a flying fuck who was in his way
Something not addressed, the penalty on Kop. I didnt think that really was a penalty, I was surprised it was called. Of course it led to a goal. I think if the goal came off of Laddy’s penalty I would have been less upset since we earned that one
Hossa's Attorney says:
TAKE OFF THOSE CLOWN SHOES OR I WILL SHOOT THIS DOG!
I think GAME 5
is LADDY and ANTI’s game to shine
LADDY needed a game to get back and now KNOWS what he can get away with
And this was the BAD ANTI game that he has had each series (except for SAN JOSE) that he follows up with a “stone them gem of a game” !!
And going back to my D man pairings I am wrong I like your pairings better… just tell me you are NOT the son of Q !
I dont think he was bad
goal four went off steegers back, the D completely forgot Giroux played hockey at one point and must have thought he was a beer vendor and Nemo got hosed for it, he wasnt bad
Hossa's Attorney says:
TAKE OFF THOSE CLOWN SHOES OR I WILL SHOOT THIS DOG!
by BigCSouthside on Jun 5, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Looked that way from this side as well
Even the first two goals were off of Hjalmarsson’s TO’s (you could make an argument that Niemi should have had the first one…the Carle goal was practically into an open net). He wasn’t amazing but he did fairly well.
If you want to say he’s past his bad game after game 1, however, I’ll allow for that.
This
everyone needs to be set to Hossa mode
Lots and lots of this.
"Eighty-five percent of the fuckin' world's working. The other fifteen come out here." - Lee Elia
by TenMinuteMisconduct on Jun 5, 2010 4:11 PM CDT reply actions
Ugh....first reply fail in ages
"Eighty-five percent of the fuckin' world's working. The other fifteen come out here." - Lee Elia
by TenMinuteMisconduct on Jun 5, 2010 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
it happens to the best of us
Self-Proclaimed President of the Castro Boobird Face Kicking Club
The Chicago Blackhawks: The only Chicago team worth caring about.
by jesus christos on Jun 5, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Nobody get it here.......
we jus have to score more goals then they do….keep it simple
now back to the live oil spill cam…………………stilll leaking
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
The way I see things…
Yes, the refs have sucked, but the stick infractions have to stop…keep your damn sticks on the ice unless you are playing a deflection. Conspiracy theories aside, the refereeing has been abysmal.
But, you can’t fight city hall… and bitching for calls will get you even fewer. With the Hawks getting called for 95% of their infractions and the Flyers getting called for about 50% of theirs, special teams play becomes the difference. Philly is 5 for 16 on the PP while the Hawks are 1 for 9, and that 1 came 5 on 3.
Philly fans and NBC announcers will have you believe that Philly has out-worked Chicago in 3 of the 4 games but were "unlucky" in games 1 and 2. I laugh. Philly has had a horseshoe up their ass the entire series, and if not for a shitty Hawks PK and PP along with some truly garbage goals the Hawks would be up 3 – 1 if not planning their parade route.
I take comfort in he Hawks final two penalty kills in game 4 and the fact that after Q sent the lines through the Cuisinart the Flyers looked completely overmatched. They will say that was because the Hawks were "pressing", but truth be told we came close to scoring 3 or 4 goals in the third period alone and if not for a bounce here or a well placed stick there we would have staged one of the greatest finals comebacks ever. If our boys persevere, some of those close bounces will start going in, and we’ll get a few garbage goals of our own.
I can’t believe I am saying this, but I am actually excited to see what line combos Q comes with for tomorrow night. I want to see Laviolette banging his head off the glass behind him out of frustration.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
by Overserved on Jun 5, 2010 6:08 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Absolute horseshit. We dominated the last 30 minutes of the game 2, and were the better team that game. Do you. You’ve scored off of just as many if not more ridiculous bounces as we have, and we have hit just as many pipes as you have. Kimmo Timonen has deflected in 2 goals from harmless positions in the last 2 games. Spare me that you came back because you’ve totally now found your stride, the Flyers lay back and get lazy like every team in the NHL when they have a 3 goal lead and your last 2 kills came when we were up 4-1. The Hawks still have the advantage because they haven’t lost at home and don’t have to win on the road, but enough with this luck crap. You’ve had more than your fair share. First 2 goals in game 3 ring a bell?
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
No…horseshit is what you are peddling…
…or is that a cheese steak sandwich I smell?
Maybe your nonsense works with the girls in the break room at Wal-Mart but that shit does not fly around here. I understand why you are so upset…because you know in your heart that I am right. Deflections happen all the time, but Sopel’s goal (goal #2 for the Hawks in game 3 for those keeping score at home) WENT RIGHT IN THE NET; just like the majority of the Hawks goals that simply leave Leighton with that "did I leave the stove on" look on his face while the puck tickles twine behind him. Pronger could disembowel a Blackhawks player in front of Leighton and Hartnell can punch guys in the back of the head and the refs say "play on". If you don’t believe me now just wait until the NHL stops refereeing the scoreboard and / or your PP takes a shit…then you’ll be the Philadelphia Cryers once again.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
It's one thing to defend your team
But it’s another to just be completely blind to what’s going on. Puck being on edge as it crosses the line is luck. Leino getting a free goal off a deflection off Hendry’s skates is luck. Leino shooting a puck, having it hit Versteeg in the back, redirect, and go in is luck.
And let’s not mention how “lucky” your team has been with the ridiculously sub-par refereeing so far. 25th lowest penalized team is now putting out more penalties than the 2nd most penalized team? That’s a joke.
by Ban on Jun 6, 2010 3:04 AM CDT up reply actions
In case you need some more stats to make you feel good
Courtesy of the fine folks at whowins.com:
HISTORICAL VICTORY PROBABILITIES: Tied WWLL @ HHVV:
Considering win order; considering site order: The team winning Games 1-2 at home and losing Games 3-4 on the road (Chicago) has the following best-of-7 playoff series and games record through the 2010 NHL and NBA Semifinals:
series record, all best-of-7 sports, all rounds: 100-37 (.730)
series record, all best-of-7 sports, Finals round: 19-11 (.633)
series record, NHL only, all rounds: 42-20 (.677)
series record, NHL only, Finals round: 7-2 (.778)
Game 5 record, all best-of-7 sports, all rounds: 94-43 (.686)
Game 5 record, all best-of-7 sports, Finals round: 18-12 (.600)
Game 5 record, NHL only, all rounds: 44-18 (.710)
Game 5 record, NHL only, Finals round: 9-0 (1.000)
These records are drawn from the applicable 1116 best-of-7 NHL, NBA, and MLB series played through the 2010 NHL and NBA Semifinals. Note in general that the greater the number of games or series fitting a particular situation, the greater the significance of the corresponding winning fraction: For example, 0.800 is far more likely to come closer to the true winning fraction in a given situation when the corresponding win-loss record is 400-100 rather than 4-1.
by Brandon Bibb on Jun 5, 2010 6:08 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
If the Hawks win tomorrow night I will feel much better
Even after the Game 4 loss in CHI vs NSH, and Game 5 vs VAN, I am still looking at pitching my tent in the same park of my cliff, but not yet.
A win tomorrow night will let me sleep from Sunday-Tuesday night well. I know history is on our side, but I would like much more room for error!
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
James Madison is my Hero!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 5, 2010 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks.
I needed that.
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
Because I'm worried.
I’m very worried.
Mostly because I’ve been a Chicago sports fan for way, way too long.
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
Listen to Ted tomorrow
Stranglehold baby…….
BEAT. THEIR. ASS.
I think Philly's getting a bit of a complex
Haven’t they heard this from all of their opponents? Surely Chicago can’t be the first series they’ve played where the fans have called Philly a shithole ad nauseum. You’d think they’d have thicker skin.
http://fingerfood.typepad.com/finger-food/2010/06/um-your-town-is-cool-too.html
I'm not sure what you're getting at
But getting called “a shithole ad nauseum” is actually no longer the case. People pass that golden oldie by and go with the Hall of Fame ones, as the article quoted, “Boo Santa. Cheer injuries. Snowballs at the Cowboys. Batteries for J.D. Drew.”
And most of us have even started embracing it. But the problem comes when supposed professionals trot out the 50 year old Santa incident because they’re too original to come up with anything. Also, when national media act like Philly is the only/the worst behaved fans. I mean, L.A. sees stabbings in their parking lot, Montreal riots after a second-round victory, Chicago (sorry) has people jump a first-base coach, and Pittsburgh sees a guy kill his wife for yelling at him during a Penguins game.
As always, Philly fans (generally) get pissed at journalists who are lazy, unoriginal, and hypocritical. Other than that, most take the indiscretions of the fanbase (getting tazed, for one) in stride.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 5, 2010 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Understood
It just seems thin-skinned to react to the idiots in the media. I think we all can agree that there aren’t many, if any, national writers that put any effort into what they do anymore. I can’t think of any in our town.
by Andrew Cieslak on Jun 5, 2010 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem is
It isn’t just the media. I used that as the main transgressor, but everyone knows about the Santa incident and acts like all Philadelphia fans have no souls. It’s not so much the image, but that people know the image without knowing how that image came about.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 5, 2010 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions
that's fair
i think most people couldn’t tell you when or the santa thing happened or what generaly took place…only the soundbites that they’ve heard.
by puppetmasterp on Jun 6, 2010 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Also
What upsets me more than when a columnist paints the city I live in with a broad brush is people overreacting to their thoughtless, hackneyed cliches. It’s right up there with calling into a sports radio show thinking you’re going to prove the host wrong. What a waste of time.
by Andrew Cieslak on Jun 5, 2010 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
I agree with that entirely.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 5, 2010 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Puck Daddy article
Justine Bourne’s latest on Puck Daddy features a great quote about Q’s line juggling:
For a team making in-game adjustments, the problems begin when your coach switches to picking lines by covering his eyes, spinning, and pointing at three random name-bars. At one point last night, I wasn’t ruling out a Kane/Eager/Huet power-play unit.
I’m convinced he’s seen Verstig’s “Coach Q’s Deterministic Chaos Creator”.
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Jun 5, 2010 9:10 PM CDT reply actions
The annoying thing is that Q's line juggling is a double-edged sword.
If it wasn’t for that, we wouldn’t have the Hammer Of The Gods line nor Ladd-Bolland-Havlat from last year. You could even argue it’s responsible for two of the more important ‘Hawk goals of this series; Ben Eager’s presence on the top line gave us the game-winner in Game 2 & also the go-ahead goal in Game 3 (which, obviously, didn’t work out in the end, but still).
On the other hand, Sopel-Hjammer makes me convinced there’s some sort of perverse betting pool being played by Q & his staff based on timing how long it takes them to clear the zone.
Either way, we need to hope he strikes gold for Game 5, because Buff-Toews-Kane doesn’t deserve another chance.
These are lines I proposed before Game 4 vs NSH, hell why not try them?
I propose the lines (As far as I know, they have not been teamed with the others before, if possible)
Line 1: Sopel-Skille-Ladd (The Oh Fuck Line)
Line 2: Hammer-Huet-Bickel (The -24 line)
Line 3: Seabs-Eager-Sharp (You got the be fucking kidding me line)
Line 4: Johnsson-Madden-Fraser (The Sure let another in line)
D1 : Kane-Niemi
D2: Versteeg-Crawford
D3: Buff-Eager
G1: Kopecky (Guaranteed no low shots will get through!)
G2: Brouwer
Scratch: The Lazy one, poor work ethic Guy, the foreign jinx, Soupy, Bolland and whoever else
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
James Madison is my Hero!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 5, 2010 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Another good thing about Kop in goal
his helmet would keep falling off, meaning a great many stoppages in play while the puck is in our zone.
repost this before the game
remember, it used to bode really well for us when you did this on gamedays
by puppetmasterp on Jun 6, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I would love to see Hammer of the Gods again
But I just don’t know about Bolland playing 2nd line center. I suppose you could move Madden back into the 3rd line checking role, but then who centers the fourth line? Fraser?
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Jun 5, 2010 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it should only be used in extreme circumstances for that reason
An ideal time would’ve been last night when we were down 4-3 in the dying minutes. No need to really worry about anything, because it would be our last-ditch effort.
Oh, and, coincidentally, I just found an article on NHL.com praising Q’s line jumbling.
Im already nervous for this game....goddammit
Hossa's Attorney says:
TAKE OFF THOSE CLOWN SHOES OR I WILL SHOOT THIS DOG!
I'll be honest--I'm an absolute wreck about this series.
I’ve read Sam’s recap several times in an effort to calm down, but it’s not helping. I can’t get past the fact that we’re not playing well, and Philly seems to be the cause. That means that we don’t control it. And that has me seriously worried.
I WANT to trust the Hawks to come out flying. I WANT to believe we’ll see the team that we saw for a good chunk of the season. I WANT to believe that Q will make some smart decisions. I WANT to believe that Pronger will be called for his cross-checking/slashing/hooking/tripping/roughing ways.
But I believed all those things would happen the last game too. And, well, we know what happened.
Sinking into despair……(Is that a cliff I see? A ledge in front of me?)
I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
Being a devoted fan
in today’s godless world is a way of testing our capacity to believe, to have faith in something we cannot control. To take part in and improve a community. To remind us that we care about outcomes. To show us the rewards of devotion and attention.
I see on your profile that you are also a Cubs fan so let’s not get too focused on the rewards part of it.
You chose your screen name for a reason. Perhaps your mission here is to learn to embrace the fear, convert it into the powerful energy of faith and share it with your SCH flock so that collectively you can create a vibration of triumph to transmit through the city and to the players.
Tomorrow is Sunday after all. Church starts at around 7:15.
by flyersfaninchicago on Jun 5, 2010 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
you know, red is pretty close to orange
You should change teams. You’re like the Philly version of Chris Burton.
by Katherine215 on Jun 5, 2010 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather have a sex-change operation
But thank you for the overture. Should I know who Chris Burton is?
by flyersfaninchicago on Jun 5, 2010 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Burton is one of the mods/writers at On The Forecheck
and a part-time Hawks fan. He’s also a rec-whore and amusing drunk. He has greatly endeared himself to the SCH family through the latter two qualities.
My name isn't Preacher just because I think it's cute.
It’s because the chicks dig it! (Um, yeah right!)
I have lots of faith in God—in other people (including my teams), not so much.
And this: “you are also a Cubs fan so let’s not get too focused on the rewards part of it”
Ouch! That’s an easy shot to take, but I’ll let you have it.
I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
cheap jokes are a temptation not easily denied
“The only one who could ever teach me
Was the son of a preacher man”
by flyersfaninchicago on Jun 5, 2010 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions
This recap
is like Ben and Jerry’s: it’s comforting and makes me feel like everything will be ok. thanks, Sam.
i still kind of want to shoot myself
they need to win tomorrow
Hossa's Attorney says:
TAKE OFF THOSE CLOWN SHOES OR I WILL SHOOT THIS DOG!
by BigCSouthside on Jun 5, 2010 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes! You've expressed my feelings in a much more concise way!
I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
I still kind of want to shoot *them*
for disappointing me the last two games. I agree they need to win tomorrow, but when Sam, McClure or Killion tell us it will be ok, I believe them, though usually Sam does it. Even if he is lying, it makes me feel better.
by Katherine215 on Jun 5, 2010 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I get an "honest-opinion" feeling from Sam on this
I believe him and it did make me feel better
R.I.P. Kim Johnsson (03/16/1976 - 03/14/2010)
can't we just shoot the Flyers? :P
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too."
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jun 6, 2010 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions
me too
but, being the only person in my family that knows anything about hockey (as they are just huge fans of championship teams), they expect me to explain why all is not lost, so I’ve been practicing my stacie impression and trying to keep them off the ledge.
but secretly, I want to show up in the Hawks locker room with a bag of golf clubs and ask them if that’s what they are preparing for.
" I want to show up in the Hawks locker room with a bag of golf clubs and ask them if that’s what they are preparing for."
Ouch! That’s some tough love.
And much needed, apparently.
I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
this is assuming the Captain hasn't already done something like this
I have faith in Tazer’s ability to give the team the tough love they need. I’d like to see more of Cap’s aggressive, “I hate losing” competitiveness in game 5.
Very comforting recap. I think...yeah, I think it did actually calm me down.
What had Troy Brouwer done to be demoted to the 4th line and what had Tomo Kop done the past two games to be elevated to Sharp’s wing?
Absolutely. Now is not the time for this nonsense.
R.I.P. Kim Johnsson (03/16/1976 - 03/14/2010)
"Now is not the time for this nonsense"
Exactly. This is why, though Sam’s post soothes my high blood pressure, Q drives me to despair.
I realize he’s the hockey genius (an NHL coach for a lot of years!) but how can he not see what seems apparent to the rest of us? Switch Buff and Brow to start off with, and then switch in Hossa on the top line in spots. MAKE Philly figure out where to put Pronger and then overwhelm the other Flyer defensemen with our best shooters.
I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
Chicago just beat Philadelphia...
..at Toyota Park in Bridgeview. For those of you watching for signs, omens, and portends from the sports gods, this is probably as good as it will get until 7pm cst Sunday. Oh, and they were playing Chelsea Dagger after the Fire scored. The gospel is spreading, all is well.
"..and what's on your Christmas list, partner?" P. Foley
"I expect to get leather goods for Christmas.. a belt in the mouth, and a boot in the ass." D. Tallon, 1985
and didn't the Philly team just take off their shirts
to reveal Flyers shit underneath?
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too."
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jun 6, 2010 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh shit...not again
I’m about to go into full on panic mode. Round 2. And nothing can make it stop unless we walk away with a win tomorrow.
Oh how I remember being up 2-0 and everybody saying, “hey, no worries, Philly has to win 4 of 5.” After game 3 it was “hey, no worries, all we have to do is play .500 hockey.” I hate stats. And I hate being a pessimist.
me as usual
Hossa's Attorney says:
TAKE OFF THOSE CLOWN SHOES OR I WILL SHOOT THIS DOG!
by BigCSouthside on Jun 6, 2010 1:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep.
Still going strong. Wish the Hawks were on now. Sick of this back and forth and I’m guessing I’m not the only one.
by Andrew Cieslak on Jun 6, 2010 2:40 AM CDT up reply actions
ME
Fuck anhydride dehydrogenase. Even enzyme deficient people deserve to drink!!
Also, Japanese curry udon tastes fantastic at 3 in the morning
Im classy
I had McDonalds
Hossa's Attorney says:
TAKE OFF THOSE CLOWN SHOES OR I WILL SHOOT THIS DOG!
by BigCSouthside on Jun 6, 2010 3:12 AM CDT up reply actions
my new apartment
is within walking distance of St Mark’s place, the hidden gem of late night fooding in NY
will prolly be rocking my old place one last time since new place has no TV… plus I can scare the neighbors all I want now
(skims post)
Something about dijonnaise.
by Andrew Cieslak on Jun 6, 2010 3:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Niemi is the man
tomorrow is his chance to once again prove this. Big game folks.. Jersey up… When the goin gets tough from the get go, go man go oh brother not another motherfucker gonna go now… (anyone?)
Halak me now..
I think Buff just killed that guy
One day break from SCH over
Was incredibly hard, such is the depth of my addiction.
I was going to go through and catch up on all the discussions, but I just want them to drop the puck now! The points I can’t let rest though:
- Scoring chances don’t tell the whole story. I’ve come to the conclusion that getting shots blocked is a very very bad thing. It’s a good metric, but might be better used in conjunction with other stuff. Also I’m too lazy to track it myself, so I’ll never use it.
- As hawks61 mentioned somewhere, line shuffling isn’t as important as letting the lines roll… our top 3 lines all have some great two-way players, don’t take unnecessary risks on the changes.
- D: Marlboro 72, Meatball Soup, Sopel-Hendry. Need a puck mover on every pairing. Hjammer-Sopel on PK only, please.
- I don’t give a crap about all this fanbase/city stuff. Let it rest.
- I believe in this team, the Chicago fan in me may try to tell me otherwise but you can see the fire in our leaders now. Even if we lose tomorrow I think you will see how massive this team’s heart is, they will still make it a series. Fuck anybody who says Flyers in 6, they’re wrong.
then you get free
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
I feel like that first bullet is for me
I’m not saying scoring chances tell the whole story. But I think looking at Goals, Scoring Chances, and Shots combined show a good picture.
And blocked shots are tricky. I’m someone who doesn’t exactly like seeing the Flyers block 20 shots a game. I’m glad Leighton didn’t have to stop them, but get the damn puck out of the zone!
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 6, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I was saying that based on the results in my FanPost
Believe me, I was surprised to see that result, and it’s made me question both Corsi and Fenwick. But since then I’ve looked out for it, and while blocked shots aren’t created equal (oh dear, do we need to do a “blocking chances” stat now?), I lost count of how many Flyers blocks last game let to odd man rushes the other way (and I can remember at least two goals in the past two games that came off plays broken by blocks).
I remember Lavvy making a big deal out of Chicago blocking shots earlier in the series — and I’ve got to hand it to him, as it has been a difference maker.
People love
just looking at the surface. Blocked shots > SOG. While that’s almost always true (Lappy was out for almost an entire series, not the optimal result), it isn’t always. And then they ignore the fact that the puck was in the zone the entire time and blocked shots tend to result in keeping possession and more shots.
So, I like Fenwick.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 6, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought Fenwick excluded blocked shots?
That’s probably what you meant, but I got confused. What I’m saying is half the time, blocked shots result in turning over possession, and if it’s happening on a point shot when you have three forwards deep, it has the potential to turn into a odd man situation.
So I’m actually saying blocked shots < SOG, and so much so, that it’s actually negative.
OH
you’re talking about when your team’s shots are blocked, I was talking about when your team blocks a shot.
Blocking shots has the potential to turn into an odd man situation, but it also has the potential to bounce right back to the original shot taker and result in an even better shot.
I’m pretty sure we’re both saying the same thing, just from different perspectives.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 9, 2010 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions
It goes back and forth...
Went to bed at 10:00, hadn’t checked this site due to wanting to get away from the back and forth of who’s better who’s not. These teams are tied for a reason and it’s because the Flyers have a lot more grit on the ice than most thought at the beginning. The Hawks have gotten away from what’s made them great all year and part of that is beating the other team to the loose pucks and quick sharp passes, and staying on their man around the crease.
The Hawks are usually the team with more jump and get the other team to run around but not so much in this series. The last 2 games the Hawks have been running around out of position and their only chance at winning is to get back to playing a simpler style, quit trying to hit the other guy just because you can, keep the puck along the board in your own zone, etc.
It’s 2-2, let’s try a couple different line combinations, swap Hossa for Kane and get Buff off that top line, and quit trying so hard to get the perfect line matchups on the opposition, let the guys play.
A Good Sign
On this fine Sunday morning, as I’m looking for anything Hawks until the game tonight, I found a David Haugh and somebody video on the Trib website which was filmed right after game 4. The “good” part about it? Haugh saying that “the best play for the Hawks on Friday may have been in the locker room afterward. That was an angry locker room.”
Ah, the sweet smell of passion from our Men of Four Feathers! This makes me feel a bit better about our chances tonight. As long as they direct that anger in the right way, I think we’ll be good. Oh, and don’t let up on the passion for the full 60 minutes (or into overtime if it takes that).
I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
I'm just going to rackup the previous 2 Hawks loses to a freak gas Station accident
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
James Madison is my Hero!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 6, 2010 8:51 AM CDT reply actions
All I'm asking for tonight is
200′ × 85′
60:00
Is that too much?
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
James Madison is my Hero!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 6, 2010 9:43 AM CDT reply actions
I just read the preview to Game 4
and the stat that 24 of the last 27 champions have won Game 4 and all my composure flew out of the window
stats were meant to be broken
there’s still 3 other teams that won – keep your chin up
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
You can find any stat you wish to make you feel better or worse
I think there was another stat here that said when a team with home-ice advantage won the first two then lost the next two, they were 9-0 in SCF.
Or just make one up. That’s what numbers are for.
Tonight will have very little to do with Game 4 which had very little to do with Game 3 and so on and so on. And this will be true for Games 6 and (if needed) Game 7.
by flyersfaninchicago on Jun 6, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
all that matters is
who wins two of the next three – we said it would be an exciting series and it certainly is. Neither side is going to roll over and play dead. The team left standing with all of the lucky bounces in their corner will be drinking from the hockey holy grail.
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
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