Status Update
by SamFels on Jul 12, 2010 4:24 PM CDT
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PrintWell now that the Hammer will be staying on Madison, it's time to crunch the numbers and see where the Hawks are and where they can go. As of right now, the Hawks have these spots to fill:
three wing spots, assuming Reasoner is your 4th line center, as well as one to two extra forwards.
A third pairing on the blue line.
A second goalie, either Niemi or someone else starting ahead of Corey Crawford, who clearly is going to be the backup either way.
At the moment, the Hawks will basically have Huet's cap hit to play with, and I'll throw in John Scott's 500k because I really don't think he's going to be more than a #8 d-man on this team, so that's 6.1 million for 7-8 spots. Oh won't this be fun?
Nothing is going to happen until they figure out what Niemi's hearing is, but I just can't imagine that the arbitrator is going to rule a number that's going to be in any way palatable to the Hawks. You might want to start thinking about combining the words "your Niemi jersey" and "ebay" pretty soon. Bickell, Hendry, Skille all are still listed as free agents as far as I can tell, but someone correct me if I'm wrong. Let's say that Stan fills out the 3rd pairing with some combo of Vishnevsky, Hendry, LaLonde, or Connelly, or something to that effect. None of these combos will come in at more than 1.6 together. So let's go with that number and say you know have about 4.4 for forwards.
Bickell and Dowell are going to be manning the 4th line, we know this. They both made the minimum last year, maybe Bicks gets a slight raise, but it won't be any more than 1.2 for both. So now we're down to 3.2. Corey Crawford comes in at 800k, so 2.4 for another goalie and another forward.
Doesn't work, does it? Well, maybe it can before camp. Remember, you can exceed the cap until opening night. But when it comes down to pare this roster down, well, it's icky.
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2.4 for another goalie and a forward
When that other goalie is our starter, yeah trouble.
Ditto for CNS
2.4 and I think Sam might be a forward short
we need 3 forwards + a 13th forward. So, I think the 2.4 would have to go for a starting goalie and 2 forwards!
my god
Ditto for CNS
at least we didn't overpay
Hamuis?
When in Rome we shall do as the Romans, when in Hell we do shots at the bar.
by HolyBlackhawksBatman on Jul 12, 2010 4:35 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
We learned our lesson after Adrian Aucoin.
2010 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS
It's been a long journey but in the end it was all worth it, and I wouldn't have ever changed a thing. The feeling is so surreal, yet so real.
I threw up a little bit.
Great captain.
When in Rome we shall do as the Romans, when in Hell we do shots at the bar.
by HolyBlackhawksBatman on Jul 12, 2010 4:41 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You’re making fun of the Canucks for paying under the market rate, even if it has become a high rate, for an extra legit top 4 defenceman and staying healthily within the cap? Really? We don’t have the luxury to go back into the past to draft players like Seabs and Keith, so this was the best we could do… overpaying is a meaningless statement. If we can afford it (which we can) and it doesn’t fuck our cap situation (which it doesn’t)… we just made our team better. That’s called a good decision. I would much rather have no cap problems and pay big UFA $$$ for Hamhuis than have your cap issues. Although I would happily have your cap issues if it came with the Stanley Cup :)
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 1:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Once we trade away Bieksa and pick one other d-man to demote to the AHL, we will have 7 legit d-men, 13 legit forwards, and 2 legit goalies, all with $1 million to spare. Having lost no real important players on our team and gained two top-4 d-man. Yet you pity us for what we’ve we did this summer?
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure it's pity,
I just know I’m so sick of dissecting the Hawks troubles that it’s nice to be able to “laugh at” other contracts. It almost makes me forget how many players we lost and overpaid for just a split second. I think maybe other fans are right there with me in just wishing the rosters were set and it was opening day already, or at least camp.
I think the Canucks will have another good year next season, but even with all of the skill in the world they need to get the mental game under control if they meet up with the Hawks again in the postseason.
by blackhawkeyes on Jul 13, 2010 1:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Buff was a big source of our mental block. Him being gone to the east was very much appreciated in Vancouver. But you’re very right that we need to get around having a shit mental game against you guys. You’ve been owning us. I remain hopeful that this will change :)
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Not trying to be a smart aleck
but I think Lu is the biggest mental block y’all have got. Buff contributed to that a lot, but I think Luongo has some “big game” performance issues. I wonder if removing the C would help him some.
The Chicago Blackhawks -- 2010 Stanley Cup Champions!!!!!!
"I can't stop crying and laughing." Preacher
by Preacher000 on Jul 13, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
"Yet you pity us for what we’ve we did this summer?"
I dont pity. but I do get a chuckle at the fact that you are paying the guy who wears the “C” on your team $10,000,000 this year. no matter how fucked up our offseason has been, our year ended with a parade and the guy getting grossly overpaid (Phantom 51) on the Hawks helps us win Championships, not lose by allowing Buff throw pucks in the net (Did you see his goal in the 3rd period of gm.6?? Hilarious).
Hopefully we get another crack at eachother again this postseason though. Its always fun.
"...can i have a glass of whiskey and a slice of bread?"
Lu’s cap hit is $5.3 mill, which is 10th most for goalies in the league (well I think 9th now that Nabakov is gone). Huet’s cap hit is the same— so you want to talk overpayment for goalies??? Actual salary paid is irrelevant unless your owner has tight purse strings. So we got good value for Lu I think. I think most neutral viewers of the game would easily agree he’s among the top 9 goalies in the league, and some could fairly argue top 5. So he’s not overpayed by any means. The problem on our team wasn’t him, it was our defence, and the fact that you guys were better than us! Hopefully this offseason solved both problems, and I look forward to the 2010/11 quest for the cup :)
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions
I hate him, but I agree, he’s definitely one of the league’s best goalies and I think his cap hit is reasonable. At the same time, if he was on my team I’d be really worried about his growing habit of letting in goals in big games. Lots of goals.
www.mjt.org
I didnt mention the Cap hit.
I just was stating that it makes me laugh that he is going to be paid 10 Million dollars this year by the Vancouver Canucks. And, believe me, i have laughed over Huet’s contract to the point of tears many times already. but 10 Mildo? fuck. that. is. insane.
"...can i have a glass of whiskey and a slice of bread?"
I don’t really see the point. Who cares how much he makes in a season? They all make exorbitant amounts of money. What matters is how does it impact the team. So all that matters is cap hit.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
does there always need to be some resounding message or well thought out point for you in every comment? If so, you should just skip most of what I choose to post if you do not like.
All I am saying, as a spectator and someone who has seen your captain play the past two stanley cup playoffs, is that it is a fucking hilarious joke that he is getting paid 10 million dollars this year. that is all. not something I would bring to a Crossfire segment, just something I laugh about :)
"...can i have a glass of whiskey and a slice of bread?"
Oh, so basically you’re just a silly person. Noted.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Chiko…I get that, I really do.
Its a wrong assertion though.
I am sure you guys enjoy watching the PVR of those games.
Look at how many of those goals are rebounds, tips and screened shots.
Thats on the goalie, but its more on the team.
I know when I played as a D’man, I apologized to my goalie when someone that I didn’t move scored after he made a save.
You might find some of our more…reactionary fans blaming Lui.
Most of the knowledgeable ones do not.
reactionary fans blaming Lui.
The only thing to blame on Lui is the cap hit. That keeps the team from affording better dmen…
No, the lack of availability of availability of better d-men is what keeps us from doing so. I think we spend about the same as you on D. Sorry to burst your bubble. Lu’s cap hit, once again, is the same as Huet’s. And it’s below average for a goalie that plays more than 60 games a season.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Lu’s cap hit, once again, is the same as Huet’s.
Huet’s cap hit is why he won’t be on the team this year. Even if he was last years starter he still wouldn’t be on the team this year.
Yes. But then how can you argue Lu’s cap hit is the reason we can’t get better d-men? The salary you paid to d-men last year in total is more than we will pay this year in total. If you can do it with Huet on the books, then logically we can do with Lu on the books. Plus, the cap is even higher now.
The reality is that we can’t get better d-men because there are very few really really good d-men out there. You have 3 of the best 10 in the league. You’re very lucky slash have good management. There’s little we can do about it at this point. We can’t wish all-star d-men out of thin air. We either must draft them (which can’t get us anyone good for a while) or try and lure them here. No one trades those types of players unless they can’t afford the cap situation (See: Chris Pronger). Otherwise you’ve got to wait for then to become a UFA. See: Soup, Chara. There’s nothing we can do about that.
To sum up, Luongo’s cap hit in no way is hurting our ability to get better d-men.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Entry Level contracts.
The Hawks spent the way they did because they had the advantage of lower Entery Level contracts. Once those went away they could no longer afford a High priced goalie and a high priced d-core.
You want to think otherwise, well feel free…
Let’s look at facts.
If you include the average between Johnsson (RIP) and Barker, the cap hit last year for you guys for top 7 D was about $19 mill and change. That’s with Huet having a cap hit of $5.6 mill.
Us this year, assuming Bieksa is gone (which is the obvious plan), we will spend about $18 mill and change on our top 7 D, with most of the money concentrated on 5 players. With Lu having a cap hit of $5.3 D.
So again, please explain to me how Lu is preventing us form being able to afford good d-men.
I stand by my point— any lack of good d-men on our team has almost nothing to do with Lu’s cap hit and is mostly due to the fact that there are few great d-men in the league and they are rarely if ever available. Not one was available as a UFA this offseason.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
You bring up a good point
Of course, my homer self would agree with have 3 of the best 10, but no matter how you cut it it’s the scarcity that’s led to D men being paid so much this offseason.
The way to get them these days, I think, is to be good/lucky in the draft (or otherwise stocking up on prospects) and develop them. You get some years of quality play out of them if they develop fast, and before they get too expensive. It’s tough but this is how we did well (or were lucky to get) with Hjalmarsson.
I agree in part, you’re definitely right, although I do think there is a kernal of truth to it that speaks beyond the weak defense. Turco was the same for a while; he played phenomenal regular seasons but choked at some point in the playoffs. I think getting Schneider 20 starts this year will go a long way for your captain.
On another note, Roberto shouldn’t be captain; when bad games happen a goalie-captain is put in a position where he basically has to throw teammates under the bus. A skating captain can include himself in remarks about having to play better; when RL says it it inevitably sounds like he’s singling out the play of others from his own performance. Impossible position.
www.mjt.org
I completely agree. The question is how do we transition the captaincy to Kesler without any creating any new problems.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
once we get rid of Huet
we’ll send you the number for our hitman.
(j/k!)
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Ha. We WANT to keep Luongo though. We really do think he’s good. Just needs to pick up his mental game and get better help from the d-men. So that wouldn’t be a good solution for us :)
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Keep Luongo
We don’t mind :)
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
you WANT to keep him?
//confused//
(okay, just messing with you really.)
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, if he had someone like seabrook to clear the net and keith to stay on his man, then you’d really hate Luongo. Trust me. You guys demolish our D, which is why you think Luongo is bad. Or at least you used to :)
You know how everyone else is shocked that you guys would consider dumping Niemi? It’s because they don’t appreciate what you know, which is that he looks good and you win because you have the best damn set of D-men in the league.
Now that you have less depth, and therefore hopefully our average set of D-men will have a better ability to focus on your key players and hopefully be more effective, then you will see what Lu can do.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
hey, for future reference
“just messing with you” is code for “don’t take this comment seriously” which is also code for “you don’t need to explain your position, I actually get what you’re talking about but just won’t concede it because you’re the enemy”.
Which is also code for “dammit, Beantown, do we have to explain all our jokes to you?”
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, you've been around here enough
you should know how this works by now.
//needle, needle
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
lets give the outsiders a break
even some of us don’t always get the jokes
//looking for that damn sarcasm button again
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
Learned a trick at Amazin' Avenue (Mets SBN site)
to indicate sarcasm, simply enclose the desired text between @ signs
I love Philadelphia
It's a game of redeeming features. ~ Bob Murphy
ABSOLUTELY NOT.
First of all, the entire site would be like that.
Then, the overuse of the @ trick would cause the site would break. Again. Did we not learn from the first time??
DON'T DO IT!
People played with that toy before and managed to break the Z key in one of the threads. Better to take our chances guessing at sarcasm than to break the beloved Z key.
by Katherine215 on Jul 14, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Joking about Luongo sucking is to Beantown Canuck what joking about having a gun in you suitcase is to airport security.
Also, as a fan of the team that has sucked against you two postseasons in a row, I hope you can imagine that it can become kind of a sore spot :)
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
did you really just compare yourself to TSA?
you poor thing.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Just laugh at your sore spots like we do
Like our goalie situation wasn’t a joke on every blog.
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
Easier to do when you have a big heavy shiny silver thing to fondle whilst you laugh!
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
A friend came into the gym the other day
wearing a shirt that said noting but “INFIDEL” in block letters on the front.
I want one, for no other reason than to wear through airport security when i enter/exit the country. I mean hell, if they’re going to stop me anyway, like they always do…..
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
you know...
the chaperone of my old high school’s basketball team once whispered to one of the kids he was looking after not to mention the bomb the kid did not have in his suitcase. They almost missed their flight because of that guy.
by northernsails on Jul 14, 2010 2:06 AM CDT up reply actions
well...
Which is also code for "dammit, Beantown, do we have to explain all our jokes to you?"
In a prior thread, Beantown said he took the bar, which means he’s a lawyer, so…yes.
Yup. Sitting in my office right now. Slooow day.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
The firm I work for is based in Chicago, by the way. So Chicago owns me both in hockey and in real life. FML.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
McDermott?
there are very few sizable firms with practices in both Boston and Chicago….
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m actually in New York now. Was in law school in Boston when I started up on SBN, hence the name. I think I’ll avoid mentioning which firm it is, but it’s one of the big three.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
no if i was wrong i didn't expect you to admit which it was
i only guessed b/c i also went to law school in boston (along with half the country) so i actually looked into the overlap at some point
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Haha… I’m actually from Vancouver, so I’m not even from ‘half the country’. But yeah, there are like a billion law schools in Boston eh?
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Entertaining as hell Beantown and co.
I do get the feeling I owe Beantown a fee though.
Is the sarcasm button ALL CAPS like the FTF guys?
;-)
Does ALL CAPS = sarcasm at FtF
then no. Here, we actually have a “no sarcasm” button on occasion, b/c we pressed the sarcasm button so much it broke and became the default setting.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Much like us at NM. Sometimes the nuances of conversation are lost and madness ensues.
I should assume when giving or getting a gentle jibe that here that people have a sense of humor about it?
Cool.
there are some misunderstandings
but yes as a general rule of thumb as a group we have a good sense of humor and can take gentle jibes (we usually give it back ten fold though)
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
thank you, impending sense of doom
I feel better worse horrified about life now.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Look, it's not that I really think he's bad...
There’s no doubt he has the ability to stand on his head several nights each season. I would have to concede he is among the top ten.
But I used to play goalie, and he is the definition of the type of goalie I hated to see at the other end of the ice.
Not because he is good, but because he is a bit of a peacock, showboat, prima-donna, however you wish to describe it.
I feel the same way about Turco, with his glitter pads… Liberace on ice. (hope I don’t have to eat those words)
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
Scott
The only thing with him is he brings some size to a smaller line up now that you take out Buff and Ladd. Plus he is making the bare min for a contract so thats a plus. As people have pointed out, while his numbers weren’t great in Minny, they weren’t awful. If the third pairing is only being asked for 5-10 min he cant be a poor choice.
He can't keep up
with a team that plays a trap and was AHL bound for 50% of the season on one of the worst teams in the conference. He’s not an NHL caliber player on a shit team – you think that’s going to change when he walks into the UC?
Scott is on this team for one reason....
to deter teams from running our players. And to that end he will serve nicely. I like the signing.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
Please note:
Last year, SCUM got spanked pretty good the first 2 games vs St Louis.
They promptly went out and got Brad May…
Time will tell how Scott fits in.
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
Scott is not for the playoffs per say...
…but rather the regular season. Once the playoffs start, admittedly guys like Scott become avid spectators. But in the regular season a badass like John Scott is a wonderful deterrent to other team’s mouth breathers running our star players into the third row. It’s something that is hard to quantify but for little more than the minimum he is well worth it. Besides, our team toughness took a bit of a hit when Eager, Burish, Buff, Ladd, and Fraser found new homes.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
One thing with Scott…well, both of the ex Wild thugs.
They are slow. Playing in the NW, it is a division where some teams get into the “arms race” with enforcers. The Canucks have/had less of them than the Wild and Flames.
In todays’ NHL, we made those teams pay for it on the PP. And with enough guys in the actual lineup willing to push back. That was enough.
You guys will have more penalties with Scott. But the Hawks are a better team than Minny too.
But the biggest reason I could see for him being a potential problem is more trying to keep up. He makes Buf ( a pretty good skater for his size ) seem like Bure. He was only slightly more fleet of foot than Boogyman.
For a fast team like the Hawks, I didn’t really get it…but then most enforcers can’t skate. Those two from the Wild were/are known for it though.
Sorry. I dont see it.
The Hawks didn’t use a Goon like him in the regular season either. Even amid speculation that they weren’t “tough enough.”
by northernsails on Jul 13, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah i have to believe stan has another reason
or he and Q saw something in him besides his goonness.
I can't wait to dive into a pool and end up in a jacuzzi
by desertindian on Jul 13, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Lalonde/Hendry at third pairing is perfect.
I feel good about the D-corps with those 6. As for the fourth line, gonna be tough for sure.
Umm...that actually sounds frightening
Hendry was WAYYY over his head in the playoffs and from what I’ve been reading; LaLonde isn’t exactly a stabilizing force on the back end.
Come August, after most of the dust has settled, there should be a few vet d-men in the sub $1mil range that are competent or there may be more trades in the works.
I'd really love
it if LaLonde was NHL ready, but who knows? One thing I do know is that LaLonde with Hendry would be a train wreck. We have a young guy who will take some years to figure out the offensive game in the NHL, only after he learns to play better defensively.
If LaLonde does make the club, Q will need to find a way to cycle his 3rd liners within the top two lines on many a nights.
re; cycling second pair,
if Lalonde/other defensive prospect makes the squad as a third pairing guy with hendry, Hjammer becomes exponentially more valuable. Campbell isn’t really a viable option, and I have some doubts about Biscuit’s ability to compensate for a rookie’s shortcomings in regards to his speed.
Keith would obviously be the first choice, but the steady, stay-at-home influence and previous experience covering for Campbell’s nonsensical exploits make Hjammer the ideal guy for pairing with unexperienced rearguards like Lalonde, or more likely Vishnevskiy.
by josh s on Jul 12, 2010 9:45 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Brian Campbell is a great hockey player
He is overpaid.
Nonsensical exploits are not words I would use to describe him.
He is a Good skater and is great on the breakout, in the open ice, and leading the rush. He is an OK defender, but he was not brought here for his defensive prowess. He has done this while playing pretty damn good defense. Hammer is lucky to have played with him.
Holy Crap!
by laaarmer on Jul 12, 2010 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Well, first of all
I never said Campbell was a bad defenseman. He’s a great puck mover and skater, but implying that he doesn’t make terrible decisions from time to time (i.e. trying to dangle through 5 guys), like all hockey players do, is idiotic. Campbell’s talents are boosted by a player like Hjammer, because when you have that dynamic between a steady coverage guy and a free-wheeling distributor you have a very capable pair.
Our system is currently flooded with guys who fit Soupy’s mold, and the chances of one of these young puck movers making the roster is apparently pretty high in relation to those with purely defensive skill sets (Olsen, Birch, etc)
If you’re under the impression that Campbell can handle the defensive load of what is essentially two positions (his own and whatever rookie he’s supposed to be compensating for), when you yourself admit he isn’t the greatest shut-down guy in the group, then I really don’t know what to tell you, aside from that you’re wrong. Soup needs a Hjammer or a Seabrook to balance out his defensive shortcomings.
by josh s on Jul 12, 2010 11:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Just a question guys, and I don’t mean this in a trollish sense.
Why does everyone assume Huet will be easily disposed of? He is an NHL goalie.
We all know that he is overpaid, I am not denying that. He did have to earn that contract at some point though right?
It only takes one GM to think he is a good risk at just under 3 mil…to spell a young goalie perhaps…
So, what is Plan B if he gets picked off of waivers?
Thx…
plan B is rejoicing in the streets of chicago.
When in Rome we shall do as the Romans, when in Hell we do shots at the bar.
by HolyBlackhawksBatman on Jul 12, 2010 4:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
plan B is rejoicing in the streets of chicago.
When in Rome we shall do as the Romans, when in Hell we do shots at the bar.
by HolyBlackhawksBatman on Jul 12, 2010 4:44 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I hear that!
I meant more in the Cap conundrum. Someone picks him up, and half of his salary is paid by the Hawks for the life of his deal…on the Cap.
Or if he gets bought out…still has to count against the Cap. Though less though, I think there is some arcane equation that makes it over twice the length of the deal or something…
I believe Huet would have to clear waivers twice....
If he is sent to the AHL and claimed on waivers then the team that picks him up is on the hook for his whole contract.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
that's only if he goes through re-entry
if someone picks him up off waivers while he’s being sent to the minors then the full cap hit goes to the team that picks him up. But if the Hawks put him through re-entry and a team picks him up, the cap hit is split.
Don’t you just love the CBA?
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 12, 2010 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah…it is helping to fulfill my dream of being a sleazy lawyer…HA!
I was reading a story in our local paper here about a player just signed ( Bolduc, the one that tried to fight Scott and got injured last year..have to admire the courage at that point..he is that other guy in the youtube video )…and the reporter layed out all sorts of goodies.
Like being a Group 5(6?) FA…of how the guy didn’t qualify for the RFA process because of signing minor league deals early on.
I can see how it seems likely that Huet goes down to Rockford at the 5.85 mil. No kidding!
One last proviso, and not being dickish again, but if I was a fan of the Hawks, and saw the young guys, and the struggling to put the requisite number of players on the roster without going over.
I would be spending as much as I can on things like acupuncturists, chiropractors, massage therapists and maybe a Reikian healer or a yoga swami for good measure.
Cuz injuries and being close to the Cap sucks….ask the Flames!
;-)
i was trying to find FA definitions for Katherine215 earlier
but yeah, the CBA has a shit ton of craziness.
I imagine it’s gonna be another round of the Rockford Shuffle for this year, if we end up with injuries. Though tagging is still a bit over my head and I’m not sure how it’ll affect who we can and can’t bring up.
And actually, the Hawks are the only NHL team that brings their team doctor with them to road trips, so I think McDonough’s got that part taken care of.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 12, 2010 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions
The trick on guys in the minors that you think you can play on the NHL roster is to pay them at least 105,000 to play in the NHL…they are immune to recallable waivers then.
Yeah…a shit ton ( well, we say tonne in Canada…being metric and all ) of craziness is an understatement.
did you mean 105,000 to play in the AHL?
NHL minimum is $500K
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 12, 2010 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions
got it, but can you clarify what you mean?
I’m not sure I get what you’re saying.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 12, 2010 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions
When a player makes a certain amount ( less than 105,000 on their AHL salary,) they are subject to recall waivers when you bring them up.
If they are paid over that amount, they are exempt from recall waivers. Paying the extra money on the AHL portion of your contract prevents other teams poaching your young guys…
I guess if you think a guy is good, you pay him accordingly.
I don’t know anything about how the AHL does their thing. Do they have a Cap? I can’t see it with the way players move up and down.
I think I get it
So if a player gets paid over $105K in the AHL, he can’t get poached when the team brings him up to the NHL? Assuming other factors (like # of games played in the NHL) don’t factor in?
The AHL has a cap too. I think that’s why there are two-way contracts. I’ve always wondered how the NHL teams work with their AHL affiliates.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 12, 2010 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
There must be some variance in a cap that allows the Hawks to pay Huet 5.85 mil to play goal for the Rockford Ice Hogs.
Mind you, I would assume he is the starter….lol
I imagine there is some kind of Cap that allows for that stuff.
I imagine they have a budget for their operation, and the big club is allowed to pay the extra.
For the Canucks for instance, the Manitoba Moose have their own owner ( the same one that is part of getting the NHL back to the ’Peg )
If the AHL has a cap..
How the hell do you fit Huet under it?
(I know this is settled conventional wisdom that Huey’s going to Rockford)
But he can’t even fit under the NHL salary cap.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Jul 12, 2010 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
AHL doesn't have a cap...
…and there aren’t any roster limits. Also the Hawks would pay for Huet’s contract not the AHL team.
Still don’t think Huet would ever be asked to go to Rockford.
They have agreements with other leagues and I think he would end up going overseas…
my bad, thought I remembered something about them having one
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 12, 2010 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions
They don’t have one with the biggest or the “other leagues”.
I know they don’t have one with the KHL…where all mistake NHLers go to make millions. They can work deals with individual teams there though. So, that could be what you mean. There is nothing to stop the Hawks from coming to some kind of understanding with a KHL team to take him off their hands…
That St Petersburg team has everyone from not just Nabby, but Yashin, Kasparitis(… yeah…I know…Darius is still getting paid to play? ) and others.
I guess he could go play in Switzerland or something.
I always wonder about that too. Imagine how Huet must feel about the entire fan base thinking the best thing he can do for the team is to just shut up and take the money.
Most athletes I know have some pride…and I don’t know any at that level.
You have to think he wants to prove everyone wrong and play somewhere.
I would see him going down to the AHL, but having Bowman Jr work a deal with another team, whereas he gets claimed to help them out for a “future considerations” type thing.
I believe he has stated that he wants to play & prove himself
but it was in a french article & I was depending on someone else’s translation, so I could be wrong.
regardless of translation, I'm sure its true
what professional athlete would be ok with sitting on the bench, even with the bank he’s making?
I feel for the guy, because obviously he lost the support of the majority of fans over circumstances that weren’t completely in his control. Huet seemed exceedingly gracious watching Antti win the cup, and I’m sure it was tearing him up inside. Not that I played sports at this level, but it sucks to be on the bench because you just feel so helpless. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d rather go to a long shot team to be their #1 than stay as a #2 on a cup contender
by blackhawkeyes on Jul 13, 2010 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I actually really like Huet, and I hope to hell he gets a shot somewhere to play regularly and redeem himself. That said, the circumstances were entirely under his control. He needed to play better down the stretch and flat out didn’t.
If you’re willing to sign for 5.6 million, well, you get the fine things that come with that; also, you should know that if you fuck up your limit on second chances is going to be awfully small. Based on the amazing guy he seems to be, I think if you asked Huet he’d tell you he’s right where he deserves to be.
www.mjt.org
Of course Huet could have played better,
but I get the feeling he coould start 40 games next year with a 2.0 GAA and the Chicago fans would still boo him. That’s what I meant when I said it wasn’t completely under his control. I think lots of fans think he should be putting up Brodeur numbers, which was never going to happen.
by blackhawkeyes on Jul 13, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Transfer agreements.
The NHL, at least, had transfer agreements with like a dozen European leagues. Not sure about the current status.
The NHL does have an agreement with the KHL but it is more like an agreement to have an agreement. It respects current contracts but I’m not sure it deal with player transfers.
Problem with most of the agreements are that they don’t really explain the Huet situation. Most deals discuss players coming to the NHL not the other way around.
THAT would be a problem
And it’s been one of my biggest concerns. I’m sure management is working on figuring that out because like you said, they have to be ready for everything. They basically need to leave enough cap room to be able to afford their part of his salary if he does end up getting picked up.
I doubt it’s going to happen, but that doesn’t mean the team can’t be ready just in case.
crap somebody find tallon..quick!
I can't wait to dive into a pool and end up in a jacuzzi
by desertindian on Jul 12, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
They would only need to pay half if he got picked up on re-entry waivers.
Seriously, does anyone hear have any idea how this could all work?
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
I thought the idea of sending him down was because the team needs every cent.
I am pretty sure its half for the Hawks, half for the other team over the life of the deal. If you buy someone out, you can double the time you spread the Cap hit ( which still applies ).
Like, if he has a two year deal, you can spread it over four.
I just wonder…if just one GM thinks he can play…woof!
I’m pretty sure, when he first goes through waivers any team can pick him up BUT they will pay the full price for him. If he gets called back to the Blackhawks and has to go through re-entry waivers any team can pick him up and the Blackhawks will have to pay half his salary for the remainder of his contract.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Hmm
I thought you were responsible for half the salary regardless of if he got picked up on waivers OR re-entry waivers. Hope you’re right though. That’d make things MUCH easier.
We’ve talked about it on BSH. I might be wrong because I usually avoid CBA discussions, but we had that happen with Randy Jones.
The only thing is, if no one picks him up on waivers the first time (seriously, who would at that cap hit?) and you have an injury to one of the big clubs starters, you either call him up and risk losing him but still pay half his wage or calling up some other AHL goalie you have. At half price, Huet would be much more enticing to other clubs.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Actually, I can't see how you could be wrong
It makes sense. A team putting a player through waivers not having to pay half the salary if he’s claimed is logical because you might be sending him down because you can’t afford him. If you are bringing him up to play with the big club though, it means you can afford the whole contract and therefore can afford to pay half if he gets picked up.
http://www.nhlscap.com/waivers.htm
great explanations. It does not say about the sending down part, but some great info on recallable waivers…
I'm a GM claims Huet off waivers
we’d probably have to move bolland or sharp, and then begin to weep
Ditto for CNS
As the kind of nerd who has a pdf of the cba saved on my laptop
If he is picked up on waivers going down the Rockford the Hawks do not have to pay a penny of his deal, that would be the new team’s problem. If he is picked up on re-entry waivers the teams split the remainder of the deal.
Everyone has their sanctuary. The Catholics have churches, fat people have Wisconsin, and I have the United Center.
Plain and Simple
Hawks can’t afford a 5.625 cap hit on Huet next year. I can’t see him getting picked off waivers, who wants that contract for him when he has been such a disappointment. If he was our backup costing us a couple million then I wouldn’t say too many bad things about the guy.
So basically...
It seems like this means we haven’t seen the last departure from this team, even after niemi is let go.
The only three guys we have left that don’t seem to be 100% core are sharpie, campbell, and bolland.
I think I would shit a brick if sharp is traded, but I don’t like campbell or bolland leaving either.
sharp – 3.9
bolland – 3.375
campbell – 7.142
Even after all the departures, it seems like theres no way out of this without losing one more player.
Not Sharp
There is a way if they get lucky with a Goalie for 2 million and maintain only a 20 man roster. But they are against the cap all year. If I had to lose Bolland or Sharp, I’m keeping Sharp. Getting rid of Campbells contract is a pipedream as well. I have said it before he is good but not 7.142 over the next 6 years good.
You're right - not Campbell either
If we trade bolland, we have to fill the bottom 6 offense, 2 goaltenders and 2 Ds with about 11.5 million.
Soupy
can be moved, but only under a perfect storm of circumstances with the Islanders coming to mind. But like I said things would have to be perfect for it to happen.
Let Niemi walk, send Huet down, and fill out the rest of the roster with Rockford guys and let them get the experience & maturity that they need in order to get ready for future cup runs.
Quit tinkering here and there. We have the core set and they can provide the guidance the young guys need this year while still remaining competitive. Get them & get them going now!
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
Who the hell would want to play for the Islanders?
And who in their right mind would waive their NTC to go there? No one.
No team is going to do Chicago any favors. If Campbell is traded, someone else is going…and that’s the rub. The carrot needed to move Campbell will probably hurt more than the cap hit. Factor in that shit contracts WILL come the other way, and you have a recipe for a much weaker 10/11 Blackhawks on both the roster and salary cap.
Campbell is here to stay folks.
I agree
like I said it would have to be a complete perfect set of consequences for Soupy to be moved. Nobody wants to go to the Islanders and that is the problem they have, they are still a large amount under the cap floor. I was just throwing that out as an example of a team that it could happen if this were fantasy island.
But then again come playoff time when people are desperate, add in the premium placed on D-men during FA and anything can happen. I’m not saying that it’s gonna happen, just saying that it’s possible.
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
As I’ve said before, I think you’re playing with some serious fire going with a to-the-cap 20 man roster. That literally means you can NEVER have a player replaced with a call-up unless they are out at least 10 games on LTIR. So anytime someone has a flu, or a tweaked back, or any other minor injury, or a family emergency, etc, you either have to have that player sit for at least 10 games, or have to have them play under those conditions, or you start games without a full lineup. And that would be your situation THE ENTIRE SEASON. You would run into this problem all the time. The average NHL team loses like 150+ man games a season due to injury. That means on any given day, expect 2 players to be unable to play. You’re playing with fire if you don’t leave space for a 22 man roster at all times!
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions
There’s no way they go into the season with a 20-man roster, I don’t know why anyone would even imagine it. That would be pure foolishness. Who knows what they do to get to 22 players, but no GM would go into the season without coverage for injury.
www.mjt.org
20 vs 22 man roster...
I totally disagree here. I believe the Hawks do plan on going with a 20 man roster or at most 21 (which might be what Scott is for). I do think they plan on having some additional cap space for call-ups. With Rockford so close they can get a guy to the game pretty easily.
There’s really no difference between having a 21 man roster with the cap space available for a callup than having a 22 man roster with no capspace available for a callup. That 22nd man is just the guy you send up and down.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
but if the cap is calculated daily,
having the 22nd man on the roster vs. doing the Rockford shuffle makes a difference. That 22nd guy doesn’t count on off days.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions
no kidding.
I just learned that, and it suddenly made Skille’s back and forth last season make a TON more sense.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually I hadn’t considered that. That’s a good point. So maybe go with 21 man roster while at home, since Rockford is nearby and as you say someone can be there with a couple hours notice. But for the road, you may want to keep 22.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
fuck you Performance Bonuses
Fuck. You.
Ditto for CNS
by Hack on Jul 12, 2010 4:56 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Stop it.
We won a cup. I’m not going to complain about performance bonuses. Would you rather us lose in 7 so Toews loses his Conn Smythe, Kane doesn’t get his bonus, and we, what, get to keep Andrew Ladd?
There will be a new banner in the rafters. A season of cap heart burn is something I can live with for that.
by Stan Mikita's Donuts on Jul 12, 2010 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions
"A season of cap heart burn is something I can live with for that."
I didn’t say I couldn’t live with it. But a simple fuck you to an unexpected 4 mil cap hit is well within my rights.
And don’t tell me what I can and can’t be pissed about. Just because you’re happy with our cup and you don’t give a shit about next year or any year after that doesn’t mean I don’t care about future teams……wait, you didn’t say that last part, well I didn’t say any of what you implied that I did.
Ditto for CNS
i'm sure
Toews isn’t happy with the C.S. bonus at this point. I’m sure the money is nice, but knowing him, the extra pressure put on assembling the best team is a guilt inducer.
I'm thinking
Toews will either be more monstrous when the season starts again, or he’ll have a period of freeze due to the pressure he’ll put on himself – I can imagine him thinking “The Conn Smythe bonus made it so we lost a lot of players, I NEED TO MAKE UP FOR THAT.”
Commencing talking out my ass.
2010-11 CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Troy Brouwer ($1.025m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m)
? / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / ?
? / ? / ?
DEFENSEMEN
Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
GOALTENDERS
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 11; CAP:$59.4m; CARRY-OVER PENALTY: $4.158m;
PAYROLL: $51.214m; CAP ROOM: $8.186m; BONUSES: $0.000m
This is cutting everyone who isn’t super necessary – 8 million to play with. for 4 wingers, a center, 2 goaltenders, and backups.
by oregon_hawk on Jul 12, 2010 5:21 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
that's not all
as you mention, 2 d-men, but we probably need a cheap 3rd, and we probably need a 13th forward as well.
Ditto for CNS
I left them off
Just to show what we have to work with – I also left Crawford off, even though I’ll be surprised if he isn’t the backup.
Scott, I guess, could serve as our 7th D, since we can’t get a better priced 7th at .512m, even if he has trouble avoiding stationary objects.
I have
a very strong feeling that Stalberg will be on the roster. He actually has some talent and a shit load of speed. Leafs fans were very impressed with him until he suffered a “big” hit (that didn’t seem so big) last year and his performance fell off. Anyway I think if he shows up and puts in the effort during camp, he makes the roster, IMO
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
He'll be a rock-star
on a line with Sharp & Hossa.
What about
Kruger? He’s only 20, but the prospect thread apparently has him as also amazing.
Not gonna'
lie to ya’ I really haven’t seen a lot on him that is consistent for me to make a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess). Some things say good stuff, while some others bad, so as of now I’m holding my opinion until I have one
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
Stan
Was rubbing himself while talking about Leddy and Kruger; figure Kruger will replace Sharp and Leddy will Campbell v2.0 when the time comes.
I’d imagine the braintrust will let Kruger play at least 1 season on N.American ice in the AHL before he’s brought up. Toews, Sharp, & Bolland are not going anywhere anytime soon.
wouldn't surprise me
to have stahlberg on the roster, in stan/Qs mind, as of just about now, and see how kruger does for a bit. If he really is a “poor-man’s toews”, I’d expect him on the roster too – after all, we’re poor.
Coming from a Euro league as a rookie
And being thrown in with the big dogs of the NHL is enough to break just about any man.
At 20, he’s still moldable/coachable and we can get much more than what we see right now. Best to teach him Q-stache hockey, English, and not rush things.
Ditto
I played around with it for a while, not envious of Bowman’s job…probably have to trade another player – the Isles have something like $28 million in cap space, maybe if we gave them Bowman’s first born, Campbell and a # 2 for some 18 year old kid who will be in juniors for a while?
2010-11 CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m)
Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Bryan Bickell ($0.550m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.150m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)
Kyle Beach ($1.171m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / * Jack Skille ($0.935m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
Ivan Vishnevskiy ($0.822m) / Jordan Hendry ($0.550m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($2.000m) / Hannu Toivonen ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 20; CAP:$59.4m;
CARRY-OVER PENALTY: $4.158m;
PAYROLL: $59.467m;
CAP ROOM: $0.258m;
BONUSES: $0.325m
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose : it's how drunk you get.
trade reasoner?
FORWARDS
Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m)
Kyle Beach ($1.171m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m)
Marcus Kruger ($0.735m) / * Bryan Bickell ($0.550m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
Ivan Vishnevskiy ($0.822m) / * Jordan Hendry ($0.625m)
John Scott ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
- Antti Niemi ($2.200m) / Hannu Toivonen ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 21; CAP: $59.4m; CARRY-OVER PENALTY: $4.158m
PAYROLL: $59.754m; BONUSES: $0.390m; CAP ROOM: $0.036m
Next Year
seabrook,Kopecky,Brouwer,stalberg,toivonen,vishnevskiy,hendry are all FA of one kind or another.
Not even mentioning that we need more cap room than that for injuries, we need to be in a position next year to be able to do something about protecting at least the top 4 of the list above. Especially if brouwer and kopecky have years like they probably will, and if stalberg does as well as he might.
Need more space.
by oregon_hawk on Jul 13, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
The only one I really care about is Seabs
The others are going to be replaced by players in Rockford. If we have talent there, we have to have room to move it up. (Although I’d also rather we keep Hendry, that is just for Mrs. Hendry’s sake).
by stanfordron on Jul 13, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Seabs>brouwer>kop
For me. Brouwer was 22-18-40 last season, and 4-4-8 in the playoffs. He’s big, young, and can score – I think we really want to keep him. He can probably ask for 2-3 next year, seabs can ask for 4-5, and suddenly the 4.158 we have extra from no-more-penalty is reduced by 3.5.
Seabs is a given – that we need to resign him. Brouwer i think should also stay. Kop I want but not as badly. If stalberg has a great year (not totally out of the question) we’ll be back in cap hell next year at the same time.
I do not think
Brouwer stays at $2-3M. His numbers were only big when he was on the top line. I do not know that I would attribute that to his skill as opposed to his location (on that line). I think he is going to be on a checking line this year (Q will put rookies with the top four forwards and have three vets on the checking line – Bolland, Brouwer and ??).
I'm Waiting
to pass judgment until after this season because I have a feeling we got lucky getting Stalberg, then again I may be full of shit. Only time will tell!
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
Next year
I think they will have $12 million to sign 12 players and leave a cushion for injuries, call-ups, etc.
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose : it's how drunk you get.
Me Likey!
I like the moves a lot, including Bolland on #2 and Sharpie on #1. Two of the best lines in hockey IMO. (it is a little funny playing with pairings though given Q changes more than anyone I have ever seen watching hockey religiously for over 40 years.)
Maybe I am nuts, but I see it both sides best interest to sign Niemi to this kind of number long-term. Like Hossa’s elongated deal structure. Like $2 growing to $3 over 6 years? That’s a lot of coin for him to pass up IMO. And a good bet for the Hawks. IMO, there is no one left on the goalie list that I want. Turco! i wanna cry.
Hossa's deal
gets smaller as the years go by. He gets more $$ up front but we get a smaller cap hit. A contract that goes up every year (like you are proposing for Neimi) does the reverse. It has a bigger cap hit than the amount being paid for the first years. That will not help us and what you are proposing will not work.
I'm pretty sure
All contracts, front-loaded or back-loaded have the same cap hit year to year, as the salary each year of the contract is averaged to get the year-to-year cap hit.
You can’t backload a contract to avoid a cap hit next year, only to avoid having to pay money next year.
Right
that is why a contract that gets smaller year after year gives a player more money than the cap hit the team takes in the early years and and contract that gets bigger lets a team spend less cash in the early years while taking a bigger cap hit.
Again, that only matters, from a fan’s perspective, if the owner cares about how much $$$ he is spending. It seems your ownership currently doesn’t care, which is also true in Vancouver, so all that matters is what the actual cap hit is, not what the cap hit is relative to actual salary that particular season.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I have the solution
Trade Campbell and a draft pick to Atlanta for Boris Valabik and cap relief….
2010-11 CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m)
Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Bryan Bickell ($0.550m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.150m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)
Kyle Beach ($1.171m) / Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Jack Skille ($0.930m)
DEFENSEMEN
Duncan Keith ($5.538m) / Brent Seabrook ($3.500m)
Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m) / Shawn Lalonde ($0.773m)
Nick Boynton ($1.500m) / Boris Valabik ($0.763m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.000m) / Corey Crawford ($0.800m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 20;
CAP:$59.4m;
CARRY-OVER PENALTY: $4.158m;
PAYROLL: $55.558m;
CAP ROOM: $4.452m;
BONUSES: $0.610m
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose : it's how drunk you get.
Cap problem solved
Go back in time and sign Brian Campbell to 5 million / year. Sure it sounds difficult, but we would be stupid not to try.
1961 is a long time ago.
by HawkJaw on Jul 12, 2010 5:34 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
At this point
It seems like creating a working time machine is easier than fitting everyone under the cap.
When will the nightmare end
I really don’t understand why they felt the need to include performance bonuses against the cap – just more punishment for success. Ridiculous, when you think about it.
Re: "punishment for success"
remember that we’re only where we are because we got Kane with the no. 1 pick & Toews with the No. 3 pick; we got those picks because we were terrible. It works both ways.
And we got Havlat
because Ottawa had cap issue. And Hossa because Detroit had cap issues . . . .
And we got John Madden
because he was old :)
by northernsails on Jul 13, 2010 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions
And Kane because he was lazy....
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose : it's how drunk you get.
The next CBA negotiations...
should be interesting. I sure hope they can modify the cap rules for the future. Punishment for success is a great way to define the current situation.
I’d like to see the hard cap softened somewhat. For instance, a progressive luxury tax for higher payroll clubs would be a good start.
And did you hear the Blackhawks won the Stanley Cup?
by TrickyDickAllen on Jul 12, 2010 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions
"current situation"?
That’s been the situation all the time; look at the Draft. Higher-ranked clubs pick later, getting lesser prospects & therefore being “punished” for being successful; that’s how it’s always been.
Regarding the draft, I agree completely.
That’s obvious for all sports.
I’m referring to retention of quality players when confronting a salary cap, and confronting the cap is the Blackhawks “current situation”. My comment was restricted to the cap situation only.
And did you hear the Blackhawks won the Stanley Cup?
by TrickyDickAllen on Jul 12, 2010 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I think what Bettman and Stern and every other head of sport would say
is that caps and taxes are intended to prevent exactly what the Wade, James, and Bosh did in the NBA. They’re supposed to prevent goliaths that makes things unfair and impossible for most of the other teams in the league. It’s not punishment for success, it’s “Jeez, guys! Give the fat kid a chance.”
by northernsails on Jul 13, 2010 1:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I know the Heat have a killer team right now,
but I don’t envy the role players who will have a shitstorm of ego to put up with!
It’s unreal to me how that worked out for the heat, because you’re right, that’s what caps are supposed to prevent. But, after this year, maybe the’ll see what the Hawks are dealing with, players getting poached after putting up good numbers thanks to some superstars. Maybe that’s just wishful thinking.
It is kind of interesting to look at the MLB though, because sometimes the teams with the highest payroll are just crappy. I know baseball is more of an individual sport than hockey or basketball, but money doesn’t always buy championships
by blackhawkeyes on Jul 13, 2010 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions
The Heat are a three man team.
Good luck to them. They’ll need it. Stupid-ass Lebron being cocky as shit when asked how many championships they’d win. “Not one. Not two. Not three. Not four.” Shut the hell up already.
They will NOT produce up to their averages. Guaranteed.
i'm not yet willing to say they have a great "team"
not till i see them play. But my guess is that this is either 1) going to be an unstoppable force, or 2) the most entertaining train-wreck-in-progress since KFed married Brittney Spears.
I’m kind of leaning towards the latter b/c 3 great players alone does not a great team make, and since it’s essentially a pick-up game anyway, i’m thinking the locker room should become a tense place once the school-boy egos take over.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Or you go the MLB route
and have to deal with the fucking Yankees.
Go jump in Toews Lake.
by shinkicker on Jul 13, 2010 8:24 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Dont mistake me
I’m one of the 95% of fans of any sport that absolutely despises James now. I dont think the Heat are as good as some “smart analysts” think they are. 3 people cannot win in any sport, no matter how talented they are.
by northernsails on Jul 13, 2010 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Personally, I don’t get the hate.
All three of these guys wanted to play together. How is that wrong….if wasn’t like collusion…more like…“how great would it be…”
So, they get together in Miami. Its not the first time FAs have picked a glamor team.
The Heat cleared Cap to do it. It’s withing the rules and the players rights.
To tell you the truth, I thought the biggest douche was that owner Gilbert making the statements he did.
Chicago seems to smart, and didn’t seem to have sour grapes…but some of the things I heard from other places….especially from the Cleve…thats just sad.
there are plenty of reasons to hate
like hating wade because he played the bulls just to spice up his little reality show that he was doing for this whole process.
LeBron going there is just a cop out. I wouldn’t have hated him for going anywhere else, including staying in cleveland. There’s just no competitive spirit in what LeBron is doing, and I don’t care if the heat rip off 7 straight championships, (as long as wade and bosh are healthy) Lebron’s legacy will be tarnished.
Ditto for CNS
like hating wade because he played the bulls
Don’t think he played the Bulls there. Anyone in that situation needs a plan B if plan A falls apart.
I do think the biggest fear Wade had was having LeBron and Bosh go to Chicago instead of to him. I’m thinking if one of them signed with Chicago, Wade would have tried to be the other one that signed here too.
I think
the whole thing was choreographed by the three of them in advance.
in advance.
Not actually arguing with you there. But that doesn’t mean there was a 100% trust of each other going on either.
If one of them “blinked” you still needed a plan B.
i agree
you hire a camera crew to follow you around, then you visit chicago, i think the interest may have been there at one point…but these three knew way ahead of time where they were going. i think gilber was right in what he said….when a player you paid for for God knows how many years…doesn’t say anything to you after the playoffs, and you have to hear on a nationally televised event that he was going somewhere else? that’s just Bullshit…even in a normal job we have a two weeks notice as a courtesy…he wanted a spectacle, and played the Cleveland fans to get it
I can't wait to dive into a pool and end up in a jacuzzi
by desertindian on Jul 13, 2010 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
How about an hour-long show to announce "The Decision"?
I don’t see how fans of other teams can really cast that in a positive light.
i get the cleveland hate
i lived there at the time lebron was drafted. the team sucked, the indians were the only mildly tolerable team in town, and even then not amazing (though dependable), and they followed lebron even through his senior year in HS. so when Cleveland was the team that ended p with him, they were beyond happy (b/c hey, it’s Cleveland, what else is there to be happy about?).
so they see this as him taking the easy way out, b/c he was supposed to make others better, not use other great players to make himself better. Ewing never left NY, Reggie Miller never left Indy, an Malone only left Utah to try to get a ring right before he retired (late in his career, not in his mid-20s).
Jordan took a lot of flak before the 1st Bulls championship — but he stuck around and the management gave him the supporting cast he needed to win. Maybe lebron can say Cavs management didn’t bring him enough support, but i think Cavs fans could argue he hasn’t been patient enough, nor played well enough with what he had.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with the last statement, lebron really didn't play well enough with what he had.
He’s a guy who could take over the game, but wasn’t clutch enough to do it when it mattered
by blackhawkeyes on Jul 13, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
The hate is simple for me
1) he’s a jackass who played the fans of ‘not one, not two, not three’ but five teams. Whether those fans actually thought they had a chance is another story. It’s the principle of the thing and this guy showed his true colors quite vividly.
2) He basically gave up his alpha status. Any championships he might win (I still dont think he will win any) will be cheapened considerably because he demonstrated that he only wants to be a part of the group that wins them instead of working his ass off to bring it himself. In other words, he wussed out.
finally 3) I generally dont care much for the NBA. This whole bizarre nonsense has actually succeeded in making me care. And I dont like it.
by northernsails on Jul 14, 2010 2:34 AM CDT up reply actions
And part of this is really a one time only thing
How many players on entry level contracts are going to win the Conn Smythe?
a more direct answer
if entry level and 35+ bonuses didn’t count against the cap, those bonuses would be just another way to circumvent the cap. I think they should count against the cap (or performance bonuses should be eliminated altogether), they were agreed upon by the player and the team as part of the contract, no reason they shouldn’t count.
Ditto for CNS
Im no expert
but I believe in the NBA there are “unlikely” bonuses which dont count against the cap, or dont count the same way. Which seems like a good system, because its the unknown/unplannable that kills you. A conn smythe award for an entry level contract is really unlikely, but putting the same bonus on the Toews next deal wouldnt be, so you cant use those bonus to manipulate the cap it all that much.
Probably
To prevent teams from giving bonus-laden contracts to attract players without affecting their cap situation heavily. Took me 3 seconds to think to sign a new hotshot to a “1 million/year contract” with 6 million in performance bonuses – GMs would do it
not really
there is a 7.5% bonus cushion its only what you exceed that by that carries over. If there was no punishment for bonuses there would be nothing stopping a team from signing a player to a low base and then giving him crazy high bonuses for easy tasks. For example the Hawks could have given Pat Kane $500,000 a year but a performance bonus of $6,000,000 if he scores more than 5 goals. He would do that and then only count at the league minimum, it would in effect be like there was no cap. Teams would just make contracts all based on stupid bonuses.
Everyone has their sanctuary. The Catholics have churches, fat people have Wisconsin, and I have the United Center.
forgive me for bluntness
but lets say next season sucks due to all this, and then between the “core” and the 486 billion picks/prospects we have acquired, we instantly are at the top of the nhl again in 2011-12. whos to say this doesnt all happen nearly identically in three years?
CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS-2010 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
That might be the plan...
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose : it's how drunk you get.
I know, I know...
Just venting – getting to be a bit too much gnashing of teeth over all of this.
Does anyone else
get the feeling like they’ve had the exact same fifteen conversations for about two weeks in a row now, over and over and over again?
www.mjt.org
I went over to FTF
and even they were posting our CapGeek auto-generated lines and going over our salary implications. At least the World Cup offered some respite…
Ask them if they're still fuming
from losing the regular season championship to Washington last year. That’s REALLY got to hurt.
We should use that time machine we're going to build
to fast forward to October 7th so we can get back to watching Blackhawks hockey again.
[Then we can have the same conversations about inadequate goaltending, overpaid D-men, over-hyped prospects and shitty trades over and over and over for 7 months. What fun!]
"Life is a long lesson in humility."
- James M. Barrie
Honestly
I’d rather have those conversations than all this capocalypse stuff.
Tremendously tremendous!
Luongo's tears feed my soul.
by allyouyounghockeyplayersoutthere on Jul 13, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Sharp is not going anywhere.
Neither is Bolly…or Soupy.
It has been written (and yes I am too lazy to find the link for you) that BOTH Sharp and Bolland are “untouchables” as well. Soupy aint going anywhere because Stan can’t get rid of him.
I gladly accept the spectator role on capopyclypsomeggedon. Stan is smarter than us. I accept that. I will, now that Hammer is officaly in the fold, gleefully head home and watch the CSN re-plays of the 16 wins en route to the Stanley Cup. Fucking capgeek.com.
"...can i have a glass of whiskey and a slice of bread?"
Your young goalies
suck. No thank you…
Then again, the coach is a moron…and defense is an afterthought. Varlamov is pretty damn weak though.
the thing is
anyone could come over and say “I’m a [any team not the Hawks] fan, we want Sharp.” And many already have.
I can only imagine the offers other teams have made to Hawks management for him.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 12, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Heres a take on the problem. (can anyone tell I'm bored at work?)
2010-11 CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)
Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Marcus Kruger ($0.735m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Kyle Beach ($1.171m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m)
Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.150m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
Shawn Lalonde ($0.773m) / * Jordan Hendry ($0.512m)
John Scott ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
Corey Crawford ($0.800m) / Hannu Toivonen ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 21; CAP:$59.4m; CARRY-OVER PENALTY: $4.158m;
PAYROLL: $58.793m; CAP ROOM: $1.217m; BONUSES: $0.610m
Hey look – I fit everyone under the cap – oh wait, crawford is our starting goaltender, with Toivonen backing him up. Well, our defense will be impenetrable, with hendry/lalonde/scott tag teaming the final pairing. I suppose we should just accept that it is going to be ugly.
You list 21 players.
Is the cap for the 20 man active roster or 23 man roster?
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
Don't know, TBPH
But, you can take Scott off and have 1.729 left over. Still have the goaltending problem.
I think it's for the 23 man roster.
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
Do we have to keep 22/23 on the roster
or can we keep 20 and use Rockford when needed?
20 is minimum...
…you need written consent by the league for less than 20.
With Rockford so close, I do think there will be shuttle players to fill in as needed.
The # of players that the cap is based on is
flexible?
Not disagreeing, just seems very odd.
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
The cap is the cap...
how you spend it is up to you. You can have as many as 23 but the minimum is at least 20. Of course you can go less but need special dispensation from the league to do it.
Viva Hannu Toivonen!
hey! I know as much about this guy as I did about Niemi this time last year.
He must suck.
"...can i have a glass of whiskey and a slice of bread?"
Just realized
If you take scott off and T-man, theres 2.27 left over, so as long as we need no backups, and we sign niemi for a big-time lowball offer, we can have our cake and eat it too! (as long as hammer is the cake. my fiance ensures me he looks tasty)
Ugh
This is looking more and more like a team that will be out by the second round next season. Hopefully everyone has a great summer celebrating Stanley as best you can, because come October, there is gonna be some hell to pay for whomever screwed up the cap for us last year. I have to assume it was Tallon, but according to Chris Block, written in The Committed Indian, it was Stan Bowman’s job to check all of that stuff. So why would Tallon have been ushered out? Does Scotty have that much influence in our organization that he convinced Rocky it was Tallon who should go.? I just don’t get it and I hate this. Our championship team will be a shell of its former self to the amount that I have never, ever seen before in professional sports. Why us? This sucks more than words can say. I fear our third and fourth lines are gonna be next to useless and the third D-pairing…OMG. Not looking forward to the summer ending any time soon. What a bummer all of this is.
I think
Sayins our championship team will be a shell of itself may be a little far. Our top 6 will be more or less the same, and our top 4 will be identical. Yeah, we lost a lot of lovable forwards, and are almost certain to lose niemi, but those forwards weren’t unique, as much as we loved (or loved to hate) them. Niemi had sterling and shining moments, but it isn’t as though he was a 10-year legend. He played a half season and had some great moments in the finals, but also had a tendency to kick out monster rebounds. (personally, I love Niemi, and I wish he could stay, and I feel like we’re going to watch him be awesome somewhere else next season, but thats life)
It is a long, long, long way to next year’s playoffs. Everyone had caps to win it all and they certainly didn’t even come close. I think we’ll make the playoffs, and after that, its anyone’s game.
by oregon_hawk on Jul 12, 2010 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just can't really get into the "bummer" mood.
We just won the Cup a month ago. It is one of the hardest championships to win in professional sports and we had the longest drought. Honestly, if it means we have to be a worse team next year, I can take it. This team will be good in the future to an extent that we will not fully understand right now.
i think this team will have a harder time in the regular season than they’ll have in the playoffs.
besides, have you seen Vancouver’s team? For one of the consensus best teams out there, they still have some gaping holes on offense, and their D (while deep), leaves much to be desired. I guess they do have a decent goalie thought…
Gaping holes on offense? We were the TOP SCORING TEAM IN THE WESTERN CONFERENCE last season (beat you by 1 goal) and have not lost any of our top 9 scorers!!! What holes are you talking about? Our scorers didn’t let us down in the playoffs, either. It was our D. And our mental game.
Meanwhile, the Hawks have lost 2 of their top 9 scorers, and if Sharp is also shipped off, I would be worrying about your offensive gaps, not ours!
On D, I agree. Our D is deep in terms of 1-through-7, but I it leaves a lot to be desired when you compare our 1-through-4 with yours. But not terrible. We’re probably about average for 1-through-4, and easily above average for overall d-man depth, whereas you’re best in the league for 1-through-4, but could be in trouble if one of those 4 gets injured.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:41 AM CDT up reply actions
We WERE in trouble when one of them was injured
Depth is incredibly good to have — it was an issue you and San Jose both had, and you did much better in addressing. It’s not a great comparison but Hamhuis is overpaid just like Campbell, but both are important pieces regardless.
Hamhuis is overpaid like Campbell? I’ll say it’s not a good comparison.
Campbell is 7.2 or something, and Hammer is 4.5. You cannot say Campbell is a comparable on the overpaid scale.
Hammer had multiple teams trying to throw more money at him.
Campbell? The Hawks would love to trade him to relieve the cap woes, but can’t find anyone to take the big contract.
But at least Campbell is not Wade Redden!
;-)
I think people have thrown out that Soupy is worth about 5 mildo
I think that’s about right, for a very good puck-moving defenseman who has played well enough in his own end and very solidly in the playoffs.
That would put him at 7.2/5 = 144% overpaid.
If I were to assume Hamhuis was overpaid by that much, that would put an estimated value on him at 4.5/1.44 = $3.125mm, which I think would be about right (or not that far off) given his level of contributions and age, if it weren’t for the bloated market for D men this year (which could contribute to a higher valuation for Campbell if he were a free agent this year).
How many other teams were willing to spend what you spent on Soup? The answer is none, since he went to the highest bidder. So you guys overpaid compare to the market. For Hamhuis… we offered less than other teams, but he chose us to be close to his family (he’s from BC). So we underpaid the market, just that as you said, the market is very bloated right now. But that’s the nature of a market! You can’t say something is an overpayment unless you look down the road, because right now he’s making under market value!!! He is expensive, but that’s a different thing to say than he is being overpaid. The facts are that he is getting paid a lot of money, and that the Canucks can comfortably pay him and stay healthily within the cap without the risk of moving players they didn’t want to move. So I say so far this is very good business sense on the part of the Canucks.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Atlanta was the highest bidder for Campbell
he took less money to play with us
So, the answer, is not “none”
Ditto for CNS
I thought Atlanta offered more money but less cap hit?
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
what
More money, but less cap hit? So you mean atlanta offered him more years than we did? I’m not sure if I know the duration of the deal atlanta offered him, but allegedly, he was supposed to get more money there.
Ditto for CNS
Yeah that’s what I meant. As in more total $, but less $ per year on average. Although if it’s a front-ended deal like Hossa’s and Luongo’s, I guess from Soup’s perspective if he planned on retiring before he’s 40, not much of a difference. But many d-men play until they’re 40 now.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
your offense is effectively 2.5 lines, much like ours has become. Also keep in mind that if Bolland played a full year healthy, he most certainly would have been one of our top 9 scorers (Ladd drops off as our 9th)
It’s true that we no longer have the depth advantage, so instead of beating you in 6, we can only hope to beat you in 7 during a playoff series. Then again, I’m more or less looking forward to 2013.
in any regard, I’m not sure that Vancouver has gotten all that much better this off season, which surprises me.
But we don't really know
if we don’t have a depth advantage. There’s no way of knowing what our Rockford guys will do given consistent playing time in the NHL. Versteeg, Ladd, Buff, etc. were all unknown depth guys at one time and they turned out ok. We just ahve to wait and see.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll give you Buff and Steegs (to a lesser degree)...
but Ladd wasn’t necessarily an unknown. The guy was a #4 pick one year and had some promising seasons before joining the Hawks.
I agree with you regarding seeing how Reasoner, Beach, Stalberg and co. pan out. But I think we can all agree that the departure of Ladd really put a huge dent in our line depth.
Buff and Steeg
were nice toys. Ladd was a key.
This is exctly why I'm so excited about the upcoming season.
For serious hockey fans it will be tremendously exciting to see the “new look” Hawks and watch the development of the “new” team.
I kind of see it as similar to the position the team was in for ‘08-’09. Knew we had something good building and could see the possibility of winning a championship in the near future. (Lucky for us it happened much sooner than anybody expected!)
The difference now is that they’re legit contenders immediately with the relaistic expectation of winning it all again within 2-3 seasons.
To me that’s pretty impressive in todays NHL/Salary Cap world.
"Life is a long lesson in humility."
- James M. Barrie
Assuming you keep Sharp. Someone’s got to go still. Without Sharp, you’re either 2 lines, or 1 real line and 2 weak lines.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
we'll see...
but I’m not at all that worried about the Canucks in a playoff series (assuming Sharp stays), which has been my point all along.
I truly believed your team was going to solidify itself like few other teams would. But as of now, I haven’t seen that happen. While I think the Canucks will go into the new season better on paper than the Hawks, I’m still pleased with our team, as gutted as it’s become.
You’re still the team to beat in my books. Only you guys and Detroit concern me at this point. If LA gets Kovy, then maaaaaaybe.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I really, really
like the Kings. If nothing other than Doughty having one more year under his belt.
don't underestimate the kings
they’re actually the ones i worry the most about, b/c i feel like i know what to expect from Van, SJ, and Detroit. LA on the other hand has some great players, but i’m not really sure what to expect. And i think what we’ll see is a team much better than what we saw last year.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah they were decent opposition to us in the first round. But we’ll see. I’m not a huge Johnson fan. They do have Doughty, but the 33 minutes he’s not on the ice, they’re poor defensively.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
if i recall, last year we didn't have any prospects really come up
minus hendry and bickell for their periods, and maybe skille in the beginning….everyone’s had a year to get better, i’m okay seeing what these guys can do…
I can't wait to dive into a pool and end up in a jacuzzi
Just imagine the pain if the Cap had dropped $9M
Like it was thought it might at the beginning of last season.
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII Not a suggestion, but an obligation.
Listen to the wisdom of James Madison!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jul 12, 2010 6:31 PM CDT reply actions
I Don't Know
I wish I was as positive as some others on here, but I am not. I love how people keep saying the guys we lost didn’t mean that much, but I’m here to tell you that yes they did. Teams win with depth. We were no exception. We no longer have that depth. I don’t care who we bring up, the young guys are not gonna have much playoff experience, if any at all. We are gonna ask a bunch of kids to fill these spots where we had pretty much all veteran players last year who basically all went on the ride to the Conference Finals the year before. This just isn’t a recipe for winning. It’s a recipe to mediocrity and disaster. How many times did we see our team take advantage of a weak third D-pairing last year? Well, that will be happening to us next year. Even if you replace Sopel with Boynton, which I’m not sure is a good idea, can you get that guy to commit to blocking shots the way Soapie did last year? I think that is a huge question. Plus, he is not much faster than Sopel so he is gonna leave whomever is his partner high and dry at times. Is that gonna be some kid? I’m not convinced Hendry will be back either.
What about the third line? It’s pretty much been ripped apart. It has Kopecky as of right now. I would love to see the Hawks somehow find a way to make Sharp the #2 center and Bolland #3, as this would as least give us amazing depth down the middle. But how that happens with the wingers we have lost, the same wingers no one seems to care about, namely Ladd, Buff and Versteeg, being replaced by kids is basically impossible. That’s why this team is a shell of it’s former self. Goaltending is almost destined to be worse if Niemi leaves. Huet? Can’t afford to even give him a shot to come back strong. He makes too much $$$. Turco? What has he ever won? Nothing. He’s probably a back-up at best these days. Crawford? How many years have we been hearing about him? This is all giving me nightmares and it should be doing the same to all of you. The top six are strong and the top four on D are good, but other than that, oh boy.
I really think
most of the posters here are wrong about next year’s core line set-up.
I think Toews and Hossa will be the top line. This line can take any other winger and be successful. In fact, T and H will make that third person a star. It will probably be Kop but it could be Bickell.
The second line will be Sharp and Kane. They work extremely well together. Sharp understands the timing of Kane and when he needs to get into position. Plus, in the offensive zone Kane really plays center and Sharp plays like a winger (when he is with Kane). In the defensive zone we are better of with Kane on the wing and Sharp playing center. These two seem like they could handle this fairly well. Again, they could be paired with any LW. All they need is a large body to go into the corners and get the puck. Could be Brower or Bickell. I would prefer it be Bickell.
That would leave Brower to play on the third line (checking line) with Bolland. I like him there because he has some experience (and Bolland needs comeone more experinced than Toews or Sharp need).
Sharp and Kane
I really don’t think Q likes those two together unless they get a better two way left wing. I thought Ladd might move up to play with those two. Then he got traded so now I don’t know, what other options they have in mind.
I agree with you on Toews and Hossa. I was hoping Beach would mature enough to be the other guy with those two…
I think that would be awesome
and I think Toews would keep Beach in line.
Until Beach bites him
…and Seabrook starts ripping limbs off of Beach.
The only problem is ...
there’s nothing anybody can do about it. I think most of us know that we’re fucked in terms of back-to-back cup runs, now the question is how to field the best team while we restructure the salary system and possibly get into content within two to three years. I think if that’s the goal things are looking pretty good. Next years team should be exciting to see who can step up and possibly fill the holes the cap problems created.
The good news is the Hawks managed to squeek out that cup in the very, very short window they had available with that team. I don’t think anybody expected things to be this bad with the cap.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 12, 2010 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I think saying we're fucked is putting it pretty strongly
It will obviously be a bigger challenge than last year, but once you get to the playoffs, anything can happen. Even with everyone we lost there’s still loads of playoff (and SCF)experience and you never know what can happen. I know what happened in the eastern conference wasn’t typical, but things like that happen. Or just look at the Nashville series. The Preds were basically a stupid pass from taking it to 7 or possibly the next round. And if the Rat can still get under the Things skin, that could stil be a doable series.
I agree next season will be tougher, but I don’t think the Hawks are out of it. Plus, like you said, in another year or 2, especially with some cap increases/no more entry level bonuses, we should have a good team waiting in the pipes
by blackhawkeyes on Jul 12, 2010 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Love the optimism, dude
Team can definitely compete- win the division or take the last home ice spot for the first round. And you’re right, once the playoffs come around this team should be able to give anybody a go. And it’s not like the other teams don’t have their own problems. Maybe we’ll get lucky and catch San Jose laying another turd in an important round and squirt our way to the cup. I can dig it.
We still got room in our cap for Pat Foley, right? If so, then I’m ok.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 13, 2010 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Come on, step away from the ledge.
You’re forgetting that Toews and Kane have another year of experience under their belts and will still be getting better and better. Same for guys like Hammer, Seabrook and even Keith to a certain extent. Yes, we have lost some well-loved guys, but I’m excited to see what some of the young guys will do.
Assuming SKille is signed, I"m excited to see if he can finally get it going in the NHL. Bickell and Dowell should be good additions too. Our third D will be a third D – it got taken advantage of last year, and probably will this year. But I think there’s more positives to next year than negatives. You’re just fearing the unknown right now.
by Katherine215 on Jul 12, 2010 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions
how is this phrase being used already
before the season has even started? I mean i realize “cap problems, blah, blah, blah”…..but i’m guessing even Islanders fans have SOME degree of hope heading into next season. Or is that just the wrong example to try and prove my point?
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 12, 2010 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Id like some thoughts from you guys
We all know what Sharpie can do, both on the ice and as a leader
We also saw how much of an impact Campbell has after he was blasted by Ovi, and we had to move Nuggets to D
Ive been thinking about this, which one would be a more detrimental loss?
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Hard to say
Obviously, the decision is made from a gain/loss ratio – both players are fairly integral to the team, but campbell has that massive contract. In a world where both contracts can be moved, campbell gets moved. However, that world isn’t the real world.
Brouwer/kopecky are both bargains at their prices, and moving them isn’t enough by themselves to solve the problem, so its bolland/sharp/campbell.
Campbell/sharp are very similar. In a non-cap situation, we’d be looking for great return from a trade involving either player – another player of equal or greater value in return – a big contributor to the team. Problem being, we can’t currently afford such a player, so the value of trading sharpie or soupy lays in how much cap space they clear. Sharp is worth a more than his 3.9, and campbell is worth less than his 7.125ish. Sharp won’t be moved because we don’t get enough value to justify it, and campbell won’t be moved because no one would take him.
I think its bolland next.
Sharp
Campbells hit is too high. we could buy younger up and coming guys. it’s really hard to say. i like them both so much
Harpoon a fat chick. Save a whale.
If we lose Sharp ..
who is gonna leave all the black mark on the boards behind the opp.’s net??
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
the problem I'm having with this question
is that I don’t know who’s replacing them— and I think that needs to factor into the answer. In a vacuum, though, I feel like Sharp’s replacements are above his cap hit whereas Soupy’s are maybe a tad below? I don’t know.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 12, 2010 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Campbell's cap hit replacements would almost definitely be lower...
But I just can’t shake the way they played after Campbell’s collarbone went snap. I think the Soupy/Jelly (mmm…) combination is just too important to the team’s success. I’m really convinced they give the Brouwers/Bollands/Ladds of the world much better success than you’d see from a second pairing on most teams. But hey, that’s just me.
I can has both?
yeah they are a great yin and yang combo
I think Soup actually enhances Jelly’s skills, and now that we have him basically locked, it may be better for the team to keep those two together, also I dont know who would take Soupy’s cap hit, unless there is a team looking to avoid falling through the cap floor
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 12, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
It's gotta be the Islanders
And unfortunately, I don’t think they have been drinking the same brand of water the Rangers have.
Im mailing them some Absinth
maybe that will help
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 12, 2010 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree on that point
I think we have to keep sharp just because he can transition from wing and center, and he does both pretty well. I hope we dont have to worry about this
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 12, 2010 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions
slip some roofies in there so they don't remember making a crazy deal!!!!!!!
Harpoon a fat chick. Save a whale.
Taking emotion (and salary) out of it
If one HAS to go, I think that Sharp is more easily replaceable with our current roster than Campbell. If what everyone says regarding the D-men taking longer to season and mature is true, that makes Campbell immediately more valuable because we don’t have another d-man ready to step in and take Soupy’s place. There are a couple in the system with his skill set, but they are a few years away. Also, after watching how Campbell transforms our team’s transition game, I think we need him more.
Also, the combination of Hossa and Bolland (barring injury) for a full year, plus Brouwer having another year under his belt can make up for the loss of Sharp’s production more easily than any other d-man could make up for the loss of Campbell. Plus, from what I understand from the conversations here at SCH, it seems we have more offensive prospects closer to NHL-ready than defensive prospects.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark
Been thinking about this more
I think that if the hawk’s management get a chance to move soupy – without also losing bolland/sharp/someone else in the package – he’s gone.
Have a look:
2010-11 CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)
Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / * Bryan Bickell ($0.500m)
Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.150m) / * Jack Skille ($1.275m)
Robert Klinkhammer ($0.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Duncan Keith ($5.538m) / Brent Seabrook ($3.500m)
Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m) / Ivan Vishnevskiy ($0.822m)
Shawn Lalonde ($0.773m) / * Jordan Hendry ($0.625m)
John Scott ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
- Antti Niemi ($2.500m) / Corey Crawford ($0.800m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 22; CAP:$59.4m; CARRY-OVER PENALTY: $4.158m;
PAYROLL: $54.904m; CAP ROOM: $4.781m; BONUSES: $0.285m
4.781m to find someone who can sort of fill the hole (and it is a big hole) left by soupy (coincidentally, about what we should be paying soupy). Not only does it solve a lot of headaches this season, but think about next season, when seabs has good reason to ask for 4.5-5, and our third/forth line role players will want raises (or we have to fill their spots with trades).
Soupy is a great defenseman, and adds a lot to the team, but I find it hard to believe that, if given the opportunity, Bowman won’t clear 7 million off the roster and opt to pick up the pieces later.
by oregon_hawk on Jul 13, 2010 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
One thing, though, if we were to get rid of Soupy, some hefty contract would be coming back. It’s not like we’d be 7 million in the clear.
www.mjt.org
True
But the point is – moving soupy solves the problems. Moving soupy will be insanely hard, but suppose some team wants doesn’t mind overpaying and ships out a okay/decent puck moving d-man who draws like 2-4$m for our overpriced but very good puck moving d-man.
I can’t provide examples of teams/players who fit that bill, no.
by oregon_hawk on Jul 13, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
It solves money problems, but it opens up wide the problem of then having adequate, not superior defense ….
www.mjt.org
can't deny that
F***ing cap. Why can’t it just let us be great?
by oregon_hawk on Jul 13, 2010 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I guess
Another part of my point is this – Soupy’s contract is a poison pill which we will have hanging over our roster until 2016 if we don’t move him. If there’s an option to do it now, rather than later, after we’ve had to compromise our depth even more in forwards (by moving sharp/bolland) just to stay under the cap, I’d rather do it now.
by oregon_hawk on Jul 13, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
IMO,
another trade is a comin’.
No way we’re going into the season with 2 rookie goalies.
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
Whatever happens, it isn’t happening until the very end of July or early August. Niemi’s hearing is the 29th, and I can’t see Stan making any moves whatsoever until then … or until that contract is taken care of anyway, cause they might still work something out pre-hearing, and that wouldn’t surprise in the least.
www.mjt.org
I think
I agree with you. If a deal is struck or the arbitrator comes down with the blackhawks in the 2-2.5ish range, it seems to me thats “doable” if we somehow free some space elsewhere. Good points for the blackhawks in arbitration are niemi only playing half a season and not having a lot of experience, bad points are halak’s contract and that 35 pound trophy niemi will probably try to truck along to the hearing (when is his day with the cup?)
Among the
2 RFA that may be considered “comparable” is Halak & Backlund and between the two contracts they signed it averages 2.275, so ass far as salary goes I think that would be the absolute lowest an arbitrator would agree with. However I do not see that happening in any way. I think it’s time we all got comfortable with the idea of Niemi playing somewhere else next year unless he has some sudden flash of conscious and is brought back to the real world.
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
I think the arbitrator chooses a side
rather than picks a number out of thin air. So if the Hawks say $2m and Niemi says $4m, it’s one or the other, not whatever the arbitrator (arbiter?) thinks is fair.
by Katherine215 on Jul 12, 2010 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I would accept a 10% raise right now, as would most of America
I offer Niemi 10% and a new Tahoe. Take it or leave it
Holy Crap!
I know, it's a little ridiculous
when you think about the percentage of raises that Hammer got and Niemi wants. I would HAPPILY take a 10% raise!
by Katherine215 on Jul 12, 2010 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions
in this economy most people would...
…but Niemi isn’t most people.
Kind of like when Babe Ruth was paid $90,000 in 1929. When asked why he should get that, as that was more money than the President got that year, Ruth replied, “I had a better year than him”
He does pick
a side, but that number would be the absolute lowest he could probably be signed for is what I’m trying to say.
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
Unlikely as it seems...
one trade could potentially occur, although most of us seem to find it improbable, and that would involve Campbell. Strange as it may sound some club may be willing to take him, perhaps the Hawks would take back another bad contract. Although, the hawks would only do this if the final savings is significantly in their favor.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Soupy is valuable and would love to keep him. But the cap forces all teams to consider many options, some that don’t make much hockey sense.
And did you hear the Blackhawks won the Stanley Cup?
by TrickyDickAllen on Jul 12, 2010 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Soupy
Has to want to go, as well – he has a NTC.
Very true.
I wonder what clubs are on his list of acceptable destinations?
And did you hear the Blackhawks won the Stanley Cup?
by TrickyDickAllen on Jul 12, 2010 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions
on ESPn they were talking about putting him waivers. would that work?
Harpoon a fat chick. Save a whale.
Impossible. Legal, yes, but asinine. Sorry, not jumping down your throat or anything (honest!), but this shows how much ESPN knows about hockey. I mean Christ, they should hire me to do some Jai alai commentary. My qualification? My mouth opens and closes, and I can make sound come out of it.
www.mjt.org
No offense
It didn’t come off that way. I did my research on waivers and I agree with you. sounded to good to be true.
Harpoon a fat chick. Save a whale.
NTC vs NMC's
The risk of an NTC contract is having the team say that they can’t afford your cap hit anymore and they are going to waive you. That is how they get a favorable “list” of teams to trade you too.
Don’t kid yourself, the Hawks, in my opinion, are close to that situation. Since July 1st, pretty much the worst scenarios have played out…
There’s no way they sink both Huet and Campbell. I don’t mean to sound like a blowhard, but there’s just no way. If it had to come to that, then the options directly before it would be more palatable for the team long-term … say, package Campbell with Sharp or Bollie for a smaller contractual return. And of course, for the record, I don’t think that will happen.
www.mjt.org
Can’t see the team making Campbell walk the plank. He is, at the end of the day, a valuable player. His cap hit is too high, but he’s still a good guy to have on the team.
Huet is just getting too much for a backup goalie, so he probably gets stashed somewhere to get his cap hit off the books.
Hell, I’m mainly just trying to convince myself the Caps have a shot at landing Bolland or Sharp. Which I greatly hope is what happens. It probably won’t, but rosterbation is fun.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Caps
Sorry but there is NO WAY that the Hawks trade with the Caps. Where Bowman sends a player is obviously high on his list of requirements to make a trade.
Yeah…Bowman’s done a good job getting value at the same time he sends his assets to the also-rans in the other conference.
I’m hoping that doesn’t continue, obviously, but I’m sure Bowman would rather deal with the weaker teams (that have the higher draft picks as well, to be sure).
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Forgive the stupid question...
but what happens if the Hawks ARE over the cap on opening night? Or any team? I mean, does the NHL make them forfeit their games? Penalize the team financially? Make them sit players?
I mean, I know this will never happen, but I’m just curious what the punishment is for a team that doesn’t pare it down before a game.
Cheers!
NHL removes players from the roster
bye-bye John Scott?
more like bye-bye Huet
…I know I know. He’s a “good, solid goalie player.” The problem is that he’s also an overrated, heavily-overpriced “good, solid goalie player”.
by northernsails on Jul 13, 2010 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I really want to see this although not to us. Would be hilarious. "Excuse me sir, you can't play tonight".
----2010 MOTHERFUCKIN' STANLEY CUP CHAMPS, CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS!----
Derrick Rose will lead us back to the promise land.
Tommy T is a defensive wiz!
#5 Brent Sopel Fan Club member.
Laddddddddyyyyyyyyyyyy
your sig makes me kinda sad
Ill miss Sgt Sopel and the Mad Ladder
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 12, 2010 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I know. I just can't get myself to remove it just yet.
----2010 MOTHERFUCKIN' STANLEY CUP CHAMPS, CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS!----
Derrick Rose will lead us back to the promise land.
Tommy T is a defensive wiz!
#5 Brent Sopel Fan Club member.
Laddddddddyyyyyyyyyyyy
Over the cap (Upper limit)
Just the filing of the paperwork is a $25,000 fine.
26.9 Violative Filings. Any Club which files an SPC, which if approved and
registered, would cause the Club’s Averaged Club Salary to impermissibly exceed the
Upper Limit of the Range, shall be fined a minimum of $25,000, regardless of whether
the SPC was registered and regardless of whether the terms of the SPC constitute or are
the result of a Circumvention.
Then they decide if you were trying to circumvent the rules. If so it is a 1 – 5 Million dollar fine.
Then you have to become compliant by buyouts, assignments or waivers of players until you are compliant.
(i) Impose a fine of up to $5 million in the case of a Circumvention by
a Club or Club Actor, but in no circumstances shall such fine be
less than $1 million against any Club or Club Actor if such party is
found to have violated Article 50 of this Agreement. If such a fine
is assessed against a Club (except in the case of a financial
reporting violation), that Club’s Payroll Room shall also be
reduced by such amount for the following League Year, and if
such reduction of the Club’s Payroll Room renders the Club out of
compliance with the Payroll Range (i.e., the Club does not have
sufficient Payroll Room to accommodate its Player commitments
comprising Club Salary) for such following League Year, then the
Club must take such steps as are necessary (e.g. Assignment, Buy-
Out, Waivers, etc.) and as are permitted by this Agreement to
ensure that the Club will be in compliance with Article 50 of this
Agreement upon commencement of the following League Year;
hah
And the fine counts against next year’s salary cap.
short answer: Don’t do it.
Nice little thumb nail pic ...
There’s a band that elmulates Genesis tours from the classic prog years. They used to exclusively do Gabriel era- Foxtrot, Selling, Lamb- but have done Trick in their most recent one. They are called The Musical Box (www.themusicalbox.net). Check them out, they usually play 2 shows in Milwaulkee and 2 in Chicago when they come through. I’ve seen them 20 times and have never been disappointed.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 13, 2010 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks
I never get to hear that music live any more. I remember seeing Genesis in concert in the 80s. They would play the intros to those songs but not the rest because nobody could match Gabriel’s voice.
by stanfordron on Jul 13, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
You sir have great taste!
I’ve actually seen them twice. French Canadian group. Put on a great show, but not cheap, but still worth it. Whenever the lights go off in the Vic, you can catch a whiff of the hashish…..just sayin’. There’s another band called The Grand Parade that covers Genesis and do a GREAT job in a more intimate setting, but they don’t actually dress up like Genesis as The Musical Box does.
Curious
Bowman has mentioned a couple times they are negotiating with Niemi (vs. we’ll see what the arbitrator says). Any chance they can negotiate a deal where Niemi’s contract is backloaded?
Comcast replay – Buff just scored on Loungo in Game 6…so good hearing Foley enjoy this one.
backloaded contracts have no effect
if the average is over the amount we want. The cap hit is the average salary.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 12, 2010 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions
One thing I hate about not having lived in Chicago for five years
You never get to see all the good moments all over again on TV. The internet just ain’t the same.
yeah I agree now that I am out of Chicago
at least I have my videos and highlights to watch over and over again. They have become my little security blanket during the Capocalypse
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 12, 2010 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh vey
All this cap number crunching is making want to ingest an entire bottle of Tums.
At least I’ve got the World Cup, Cubs, Bears to distract me from this heartache.
Shit.
"Kane is skating as if his mullet is on fire." - 6/9/10, 10:06PM CST
Sox are in first
w00t
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 12, 2010 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Shoosh
I have completely ignored the fact there is baseball this season. I can’t even watch the home run derby – Chris Berman and Joe Morgan make me want to stick pencils in my ears.
"Kane is skating as if his mullet is on fire." - 6/9/10, 10:06PM CST
Berman makes me want to shoot puppies
BACK BACK BACK BACK! hey berman, why dont you back your fat ass of the top of the Sears Tower
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 12, 2010 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I still would like
to cave his skull in with a cinder block
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 12, 2010 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
at the same time
I think Berman is worthy of a simultaneous puppy genocide and and skull caving
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 12, 2010 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Although I fully understand why you would detest Berman...
Joe Morgan makes me want to club baby seals…
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
agreed that guy is a fuck face
despite being a hall of famer
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 12, 2010 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I enjoyed watching him play ball when I was a kid, but...
I didn’t have to listen to him.
Do you suppose Johnny Bench duct taped his mouth shut?
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
Bench is a no bullshit kind of guy
I could see him doing that
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 13, 2010 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I have completely ignored the fact there is baseball this season. I can’t even watch the home run derby – Chris Berman and Joe Morgan make me want to stick pencils in my ears.
This. One million times this.
After the Cup win, baseball has been a colossal disappointment and I wish I could dissolve Berman’s vocal cords with acid.
Speaking of baseball, as I type this, ESPN is reporting George Steinbrenner just died of a heart attack.
Tremendously tremendous!
Luongo's tears feed my soul.
by allyouyounghockeyplayersoutthere on Jul 13, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Either Niemi or Bolland is gone
I don’t see Stan trading Patrick Sharp under any circumstance. And yes, next season is going to be a struggle. God save the Queen if this team has a rash of injuries. But who knows, maybe they get the 4th or 5th seed out of the West and then proceed to scare the living piss out of San Jose, Vancouver and Los Angeles.
2011-12 is the season that Bowman and company are pointing to. No doubt about it. Trouble is they are going to have one helluva headache finding the money to pay Seabrook.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
I don't see Seabs being much of a problem
He already makes 3.5 so I doubt he’ll need much of a raise, maybe 4.5 or 5 with a long term.
Everyone has their sanctuary. The Catholics have churches, fat people have Wisconsin, and I have the United Center.
It’s not a question of “need”. It’s a question of how much could he make if he wanted to cash in. Many teams would throw $6 mill+ his way. The question is what does he want. My guess is he’ll want to stay with Keith and take the discount to stay with the Hawks.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Hey Beantown...
are you here to cause trouble, or to see how freaked out Hawks fans are over our CAPOCALYPSE.
And did you hear the Blackhawks won the Stanley Cup?
by TrickyDickAllen on Jul 13, 2010 2:59 AM CDT up reply actions
No I’m here because I find this process interesting. In all honestly, as I’ve said many times, I would LOVE to have your problems. If you peruse through all my comments, I don’t think I’ve said anything that’s aimed at causing trouble, mostly just sober analysis (and sticking up for my Canucks when maligned!).
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions
i wouldn't take that seriously...
i think you add a lot to the discussion here. you’re also here often enough i think you’re entitled to a few false-accusations of evil-intent in the guise of friendly banter. you ARE after all a Canucks fan! ;)
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Well we would be very honoured if rise enough that you’d consider us a rival. Seems like you guys focus more on SJ though. I’d like to think we’re better than them!
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
We focus on Scum
the other teams are all rather insignificant
by stanfordron on Jul 13, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
i'm not sure
we focus on S.J. more than Vancouver, btw. S.J. is a hot topic because of Hjammer. I definitely feel there’s more a rivalry with you guys than S.J.
With that said, Detroit is the one that matters to us.
Don't forget the blues!
I fucking hate the Blues!
by blackhawkeyes on Jul 13, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
but that's not really a rivalry right now
that’s more your 8-year-old little brother getting tired of being in your shadow, and challenging you to a boxing match. and getting pissed off when you don’t let him win.
Now if they quit playing goon-style hockey and supported putting actual skill out on the ice, i’d be happy see a true rivalry result.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess you do need comparable skill levels to be a rivalry
but I just really really don’t like the blues.
by blackhawkeyes on Jul 13, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Personally, I find the Canucks
to be a bigger rival than the Sharks. I think the players have hinted there’s no love lost there either. Detroit is always at the top, but we’ve had more big games against Van in the last two playoffs than SJ.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
It is totally cyclical based on talent, isn’t it?
The Canucks used to have a huge rivalry with the Oilers….you know, like the 8 year old kid had grown up and finally got to the point where he was big enough to kick the ass that had kicked his for so long. ;-)
The Flamers rivalry started in the playoffs, and is probably the Habs to our Leafs…the long term hate and all. They are like the Scum to you.
But for all out, balls to the walls rivalry, the Hawks/ Canucks is pretty entertaining…
I enjoy it very much
I am newer to hockey so I don’t have as much of the intrinsic hate for Detroit that I should, so you guys are my main source of dislike.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions
And we are honored Katherine.
Take a bored look through some old Youtube for crazy ahte action. The NHL used to be a bit more of a gong show.
Or maybe the players were just able to express themselves in a physical way more. yeah…thats it.
This and this are from TSN. The Mtl/Philly one to start is a great example.
I think the Sullivan one when he was with you guys is my absolute fave moment of those.
Enjoy.
My hate for Detroit started with the Red Army line
…and continued on to their incredibly fatuous naming of themselves as “Hockey Town.” I mean, f-ck off already. Yeah, they have a great franchise, no question – but they basically bought their first few championships outright with that USSR immigration deal. Felt nothing but elation after the Av’s upset them in the SC finals, despite Claude’s goonish play. Still, I’ll always respect the hell out of Stevie Y, and I didn’t blame Cheli for going there, he wasn’t going to get the Cup if he had stayed with the Hawks.
just this week
and only because they tried to put our favorite Swede in teal.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Isn't our favorite Swede also...
Our only surviving Swede?
I’m not counting Victor just yet.
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
I certainly hope so
He seems like he would, but I never really know until it happens.
That said, I feel like resigning Hjammer, in part, is a hedge against the unthinkable result of losing Biscuit because he could very well be top-pairing quality and would likely be similarly good at complementing Keith’s skill set.
Basically the question is… is he a Hamhuis or Campbell. Campbell took the money and ran… see angry SJ Sharks fans. Hamhuis took a discount to play in Vancouver, where is near where he’s from (the interior of British Columbia). instead of holding out for the most coin. What will Seabrook do? From what I’ve seen of his character, I’m betting he sticks with you for a discount. Maybe a long term contract with a $5 and change mill per cap hit. But you can afford that with the space freed from not having the bonus overpayment cap hit after next season.
By the way, Seabrook and Keith are also both from BC (and so is Ladd), so you’re welcome!
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
You make it seem like Hamhuis is this ultra-altruistic player who’s taken way less than market value just to play in Couver. From what I’ve read, the dollar figure on the contract, though less than what he was offered elsewhere, is only marginally less; and it’s the term that he was holding out for … not the dollars, not the city. I’m sure he’s happy to be there, but no other team was willing to give him the term that Couver did.
www.mjt.org
Well it’s hard to know what the other offers really were because a lot of numbers get thrown around in rumourville (same is true for when Soup was a UFA I suppose). But I’ve heard he was offered over $5 mill per by some other teams. That’s more than a 10% difference… even if our term might be more favourable, that’s a big difference if true.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
There was a reason why both Pitts and Philly traded for his rights prior to July 1… he was a hot commodity
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
He was one of the only commodities, I think it’s important to add that. Philly had only 4 effective d-men last year and Pitt was losing Gonchar; they traded for negotiating rights because they didn’t have to give up anything of substance. This is Dan Hamhuis we’re talking about here.
www.mjt.org
I also think
Hamhuis has more value to a WC team because he plays especially well against us.
by stanfordron on Jul 13, 2010 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Campbell took the money and ran… see angry SJ Sharks fans
I never understood why SJ fans dislike him so much for that. He came to SJ at a trade deadline deal as essentially a rental. What did they expect?
Dany Heatley did far worse to Ottawa (and not to mention the Snyder family years before) and Sharks fans wouldn’t hesitate to get down on their knees and open wide for him.
Tremendously tremendous!
Luongo's tears feed my soul.
by allyouyounghockeyplayersoutthere on Jul 13, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I went on their boards last night
Apparently, part of the reason is that Campbell took a penalty in 4OT when they were playing the Stars in Game 6 of the series. The Stars scored on the resulting PP, knocking the Sharks out of the playoffs. So it was kind of “Campbell’s fault” they got knocked out. Unfair, but still makes it slightly more understandable.
Right, and all those forwards
who had a chance to score a goal in the first 3 OTs are not culpable in the least. Newsflash, SJ: you have to score a goal to win in OT.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, I'm not saying you should have.
Just that SJ fans really are dumb.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
well you made friends pretty easy
FtF seems to like you a lot!
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Meh, that's bullshit.
Soupy didn’t lose the other 3 games and they had plenty of time to score themselves in overtime.
Tremendously tremendous!
Luongo's tears feed my soul.
by allyouyounghockeyplayersoutthere on Jul 13, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
just as long as it's not ON themselves
amirite, Dan Boyle?
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Citing nutty, booing SJ fans
does not help your credibility. Campbell took less money than Atlanta was offering him to come to Chicago because it was closer to his home town (Strathroy, Ontario) than SJ or Atlanta and he liked what he saw in the team and the city.
As for Seabrook, I agree, if they lock him up long term, he can easily make $6 million dollars in 2011 while still having a decent cap hit in the $5 million range.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh I agree… the SJ fans need to get over it. Most players will leave for the money, especially when they have only 1/3 of a season as a rental as a tie to their former team. You need to hope that with his many years of ties with the Hawks, Seabrook has developed some loyalty to the franchise. And I’m willing to bet he has. Otherwise some team is sure to throw him an offer sheet you will have difficulty affording.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Seabs knows he makes his $ playing opposite a Norris Trophy winner. He will make it work here and marlboro 72 will continue to patrol the blue line for a long time in the Indianhead.
during the replays CSN has been showing, Game 1 of the WCF Seabs saves our ass by tossing Jumbo failure onto Niemi just as he was about to pot a rebound. It was classic Seabrook. The physicality he brings is a must and a huge asset that not really any of our other D bring.
"...can i have a glass of whiskey and a slice of bread?"
Seabs will be resigned
long before he hits the market
by stanfordron on Jul 13, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
That would be a good plan for the Hawks. Again, it comes down to his choice. If he wants to cash in for the highest bidder, that’s his prerogative. That’s my whole point.
I also agree that if he’s smart he’ll realize his game will suffer a lot without lineup beside the best D-man in the league. But other teams will throw money at him regardless, so it’s merely a question of what does he want. He’s the one who basically controls the decision.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
With every player one good concussion away from ending his career,
if your team comes to you mid-season with a decent long-term offer, you almost have to accept rather than waiting to see what you are worth on the market.
by stanfordron on Jul 13, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, maybe, that would be a logical thing to take into consideration. If they offer him a contract right now, he should seriously think about it. Who knows what will happen this year. But midway through the season, if he has another good season, then his stock will have stayed high and the dynamic changes.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I think
Seabs will get a long-term offer at something less than Keith$$ during this season.
by stanfordron on Jul 13, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, i've heard a lot of
wishful-thoughts that Seabs ends up back in Vancouver. Innocent question, but is that how it is with most successful BC players — the fanbase expects/desperately wants them to come home at some point?
i mean i know this happens with any hometown sports hero, but i feel like I hear it a lot more often from Canuck fans regarding BC-raised hockey players…
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
People say it (or said it)
a lot with Kane and Buffalo too. That always baffled me.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
I actually feel like Kane could retire a Sabre
I’m not saying he’s bolting for Buffalo when his current extension is up— it could be a long way from now, when he’s closer to retirement or whatever— but it’s just the impression I get from him. Not sure why.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Like the Modano to Minny rumors?
It makes a nice story but a lot of things have to go right for it to happen, methinks.
yeah
like I said, it’s just a feeling.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh yes we’re very desperate. Desperate desperate desperate. We have a very sad history… no cups ever my friend. Very sad and very desperate. And we’ve had about 4 eras in history when we’ve actually been good, so we get all weird and giggly and demanding when those periods arise!
And there’s no chance Seabrook comes to Vancouver, we don’t have the space for him. Although Salo would be gone after next year, so maybe. But I really wasn’t trying to imply that at all.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
oh, i didn’t think you were implying that at all. most of the time, the Seabs requests are in the vein of every-non Hawk fan tossing in “btw: can we have Patrick Sharp?” at the end of a comment.
and congrats for most uses of the word “desperate” in one post that i’ve ever seen on an SBN blog….that must count for something, right?
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
It counts as proof of how desperate we truly are :)
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
any decent starting goalie...
…is gonna cost between 2 and 3 Million per…so whether it’s Niemi or some other guy you can pretty much bet on allocating that much dough for that position. I do not see Bolland being moved for A TON of reasons. Something has got to give though and whatever it is, it is gonna hurt.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
Who said anything about decent ...
Just find some beanpole in the minors, stack some pads on him, and cut him loose. It’s time to find the next Neimi!
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 12, 2010 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I would do this for at least half the season
Then, if no one steps up, we have to do something at the trading deadline.
by stanfordron on Jul 13, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
It took 49 years to find the first Niemi...
I won’t be around to see it. Good luck though.
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
It just might be
…that repeating as Stanley Cup champion might be difficult for a reason. Scum were the last to do it in 97 and 98, and while I hate them to my last breath, I have to respect the accomplishment. Coincidentally, when was it that the cap rules and the CBA began to play a major role in things? Wouldn’t surprise me at all if it were around that time.
However, I choose to look at the positive. We’re going to retain a group of ridiculously talented players that I don’t need to list. We’re going to mix in a combination of young, hungry talent and veterans who get that winning is better than stats or money. Will we get to enter the season feeling like we’re the favorites to win the Cup? Doubtful. But does anyone here really think we’re that overmatched by anyone else out there? I sure as hell don’t, even if the fourth line looks like it should be playing in the Frozen Four instead of the WCF.
We got spoiled, my friends. The 2009-10 season will never be repeated, and we all need to engrave as much of it into our memories as we can. But there’s more than one way to win a Cup, and finding the next way to do it is the challenge that every champion faces. The Hawks don’t need to be the best team in the NHL from wire to wire in 2010-11. It’s who the best team is in April, May and June that counts. Do you want to bet against the Captain getting every drop of energy there is to be had from whichever 19 guys go to war with him? I don’t. This team is going to be a contender every year for a lot of years to come. If I’d told you three years ago that would be the case, and we’d already have celebrated a Cup, would you have taken it?
One Goal. Again.
"Eighty-five percent of the fuckin' world's working. The other fifteen come out here." - Lee Elia
by TenMinuteMisconduct on Jul 12, 2010 11:18 PM CDT reply actions 6 recs
the current salary cap is a post-lockout phenomenon
so when the Wings did it, they did it without having a hard cap to worry about. Which – while not taking away from what they accomplished – explains a lot
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 12, 2010 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
This explains the whole situation well. From Jesse Rogers per ESPNChicago.com
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicagoblackhawks/post/_/id/4663857/hjalmarsson-signing-comes-with-price
All I can say is shit. Oh shit.
----2010 MOTHERFUCKIN' STANLEY CUP CHAMPS, CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS!----
Derrick Rose will lead us back to the promise land.
Tommy T is a defensive wiz!
#5 Brent Sopel Fan Club member.
Laddddddddyyyyyyyyyyyy
He advocates for a 10 year deal
for Niemi in that article. I don’t have much faith in Jesse’s thought processes after that.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Jesse Rogers
Nice guy, but has never once had a thought in his head. All those years of kissing Mike North’s ass must really have killed any brain cells he may have had.
“Wisconsin’s right over the border, basically.”
“Christmas falls on the 25th this year” (In fairness, Jesse is Jewish, buy c’mon..)
“And that’s when the snowball begins to go down…the toilet.”
Chicago Blackhawks - 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Things have changed forever, we're the Ramblin' Boys of Pleasure
ugh, he worked with Mike North?
that really explains a lot.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
10 years, really?
1. Halak’s average cap hit is $3.75, but it’s for 4 years and his IMMEDIATE salary values him at $2.75 the first year after his “breakout” season. This factors into the argument for what Niemi’s value is.
2. Why weren’t Niemi and Hjalmarsson locked up before July 1? Uh, gee, I don’t know, maybe Niemi and Hjalmarsson wanted money that the Hawks don’t have. Why didn’t Bowman think offer sheets would come? Well, gosh, they’re not exactly commonplace either, are they?
Yes, Bowman could have considered the possibility, and he probably did, but there’s only so much you can do when your player won’t sign a contract you feel is fiscally responsible. The Hawks are between a rock and a hard place, but part of it is because of the bonus cushion come back to bite us in our arse. I’m not a Bowman fan quite yet, but I honestly don’t see how he’s fucking things up, which is what Rogers is kind of implying.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Scottie is doing great so far this offseason
The facts that he got some decent quality for players everybody knew we had to dump is a feather in his cap. So is the fact he dumped them to great locations (for us).
The question I like asking, again and again, is "What would you do?"
if you were in Bowman’s place, given everything that’s going on. How would people have handled the situation? A lot of people seem to think “just sign who we need” and “don’t trade any more people” are answers, but they’re really, really not.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
why hasn't here been more talk of Reasoner or Kopecky moving on?
At a pretty reasonable cap hit of $1,150,000 he should be easy to move. Really he is the 4th center here (unless Sharp moves back to a wing) and Dowell should be able to fill that role at $525,000 or $625,000 less. If Sharp moves back to wing then he becomes your third center and Kopecky becomes expendable at $1,200,000
Brouwer / Toews / Kane
Stalberg / Sharp / Hossa
Bickell / Bolland / Kopecky
? / Reasoner / Skille
or
Sharp / Toews / Kane
Brouwer / Bolland / Hossa
Stalberg / Reasoner / Bickell
?? / Dowell / Skille
The line combos aren’t important here, what is important is that there is almost no sensible way that Reasoner and Kopecky end up in the top 9. I guess Bickell could play on the 4th line buy the way he played when he was up last year and the way Bowman and Q talked about him this afternoon makes me doubt that they would put him that low. Neither situation is as good as last year but both provide a pretty strong top 9 overall and the extra money would be better used somewhere other than the 4th line.
Everyone has their sanctuary. The Catholics have churches, fat people have Wisconsin, and I have the United Center.
If you use my above scenario
and swap Kopecky for 2 players making 600k each, you’re up to 21. Christ.
Just don’t deal Sharp. Please?
by Bellwether Meltdown on Jul 13, 2010 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not even a little worried
Stan seems married to this core and unlike Pax with Luol/Kirk/Gordon that isn’t a bad thing. The core as they see it seems to be Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Bolland, Duncs, Seabs, Hammer.
Everyone has their sanctuary. The Catholics have churches, fat people have Wisconsin, and I have the United Center.
I guess it's my
below scenario.
by Bellwether Meltdown on Jul 13, 2010 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions
If Kop leaves
Panda will be sad. I would rather Panda be happy. Plus I think the plan is for Kop to be a top-six forward playing with Hossa and Toews.
by stanfordron on Jul 13, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I really liked
the Toews-Panda-Kop line in the SCF. They really dictated play while on the ice (granted it was mostly “We are Toews and Hossa and you are not, so fuck off” kind of play with Kops ran into people).
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark
except when Kop
doesn’t play well, like in game 6, and he brings Toews and Hossa down.
Ditto for CNS
If you're joking then ignore this.
(My sarcasm/humor meter seems to be broken)
But honestly, I don’t think Panda gives a shit if Kop is on the team or not.
Stanley Cup = Happy Panda
"Life is a long lesson in humility."
- James M. Barrie
I don't see a point to moving kop or brouwer
both are cheap, good forwards – seems to me they are underpaid, and we’re lucky they weren’t FAs of any kind this year.
Kop was basically 10-10-20 last year, and will probably be better this year, brouwer was a 20 goal scorer.
I dunno, I guess if we get two guys who can go 5-5-10 all year long for half the price of kop… its a wash? i hate this crap!
By the way, can we please please please please not trade sharp? 20-40-60ish on the season, and 11-11-22 in the playoffs. what a beast.
by oregon_hawk on Jul 13, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree
A combination of lower priced players that add up to enough cap relief will be moved before the core of the nest egg is disturbed.
(22…..22……come on back to me……22…come on back…..22…..22)
"Life is a long lesson in humility."
- James M. Barrie
A 20 man roster with Niemi on it
If you can sign Niemi for 3 million a year, Bickell for 500K and Skile for 700K you can put this together with about 40,000 to spare. I had to launch Reasoner and replace him with Morin to save the extra 200K. No 7th D’man, no 13th forward. How you play that way, I have no idea.
2010-11 CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)
Marian Hossa ($5.275m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m)
Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Bryan Bickell ($0.500m)
Jeremy Morin ($0.978m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / Jack Skille ($0.700m)
DEFENSEMEN
Duncan Keith ($5.538m) / Brent Seabrook ($3.500m)
Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
Shawn Lalonde ($0.773m) / John Scott ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.000m) / Corey Crawford ($0.800m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 20; CAP:$59.4m; CARRY-OVER PENALTY: $4.158m;
PAYROLL: $59.852m; CAP ROOM: $0.045m; BONUSES: $0.497m
by Bellwether Meltdown on Jul 12, 2010 11:59 PM CDT reply actions
if need be
Toivonen can be the backup at $525,000
Everyone has their sanctuary. The Catholics have churches, fat people have Wisconsin, and I have the United Center.
As bad as things were
I never thought we’d be looking at shuffling backup goaltenders to save $275,000
by Bellwether Meltdown on Jul 13, 2010 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions
hard caps are fun arent they
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 13, 2010 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions
If Toivonen scares them
He and Crawford can do the Rockford shuffle with Cory only being called up for spot starts and Toivonen only playing if Nemo (or whomever) get chased
Everyone has their sanctuary. The Catholics have churches, fat people have Wisconsin, and I have the United Center.
Can't shuttle the backup goalie
Minimum team allowed is 20. 18 skaters and 2 goalies. Can’t have less then that without permission from the league.
I think TK0 means
use Crawford from time to time, if Toivonen isn’t as good. That way we aren’t on the hook for Crawford’s cap hit for the full year, just for the days when he’s playing for the big club.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Can we do this?
I’m looking at it now and Crawford doesn’t have a two-way contract… and wasn’t there some contract-related reason why we went with Niemi as the backup instead of Crawford? Did it have something to do with this?
now that you bring it up
that might be a problem, yeah. not sure how, exactly.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Niemi was poachable
His salary was so low he would have needed to pass through waivers if he was sent down.
I thought they had the same salary?
I thought Crawford would have had to pass through waivers rather than Niemi. And I also thought the two way contract was for salary purposes rather than waiver purposes. I think I may be wrong on some of this though.
I think I am thinking way too much.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
you are on the team in the summer...
… you only (potentially) go through waivers if you are sent down.
A one way contract has to pass through waivers to be sent down.
On a two-way it depends… size of salary is one of the issues…
This is what I have
Ship out Reasoner & Scott – use Hendry as the 7th/D & 13th/F – sign a goalie to $1.5m – $679k cap space for call-ups…maybe more if Stalberg gets the company I-PASS for off days.
FORWARDS
Troy Brouwer ($1.025m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m)
Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Jack Skille ($0.600m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m)
Bryan Bickell ($0.550m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / Robert Klinkhammer ($0.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Duncan Keith ($5.538m) / Brent Seabrook ($3.500m)
Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m) / Brian Campbell ($7.143m)
Ivan Vishnevskiy ($0.822m) / Meathead UFA ($0.800m)
Jordan Hendry ($0.625m)
GOALTENDERS
Turco/3orMore ($1.500m) / Corey Crawford ($0.800m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 21; CAP:$59.4m; CARRY-OVER PENALTY: $4.158m;
PAYROLL: $58.786m; CAP ROOM: $0.679m; BONUSES: $0.065m
Bickell actually did pretty decent in the Pred series
I think I’d trust him more than Skille on the 3rd line right now.
by northernsails on Jul 13, 2010 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions
True
But Q runs the lines…so the above has a 10min lifespan.
He does run them
But I’m pretty sure he remembers #29 playing well for his experience level in the playoffs and doesn’t remember…hey what IS Skille’s sweater number, anyway?
by northernsails on Jul 13, 2010 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Skille and Bickell
are both RFAs and need raises. Skille needs to be at I think $892k or something and Bickell around $600k.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
so let me get this straight
we “ship-out” john scott, and in his place you have “Meathead UFA” @ 800k. So you traded the meathead UFA we had, and replaced him with one that makes 300k more?
Also, I’m not so sure we can get Turco for 1.5 mil.
Ditto for CNS
Is there an overall minimium salary for an NHL player?
It seems like everyone makes at least $400k? Could you conceivably pluck a few guys off the street and pay them $100K? As bad as that’d be I’d be content with it if it meant the hawks could keep Niemi and give it the college try in 2010 while gearing up for 2011 with the extra 4 million plus any potential additions to the cap.
by Bellwether Meltdown on Jul 13, 2010 12:17 AM CDT reply actions
NHL minimum is $500 K.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
there is a minimum, I believe for this season it is $500k. But the cap is actually a daily number with anything not used rolling over. This is how teams are often able to add an expensive piece at the trade deadline. This is also why many player wore out I90 going back and forth all year. So theoretically, in order to have a 7th d and 13th f the Hawks could send the highest paid player on a 2 way deal back and forth on game days to save the money on off days.
Everyone has their sanctuary. The Catholics have churches, fat people have Wisconsin, and I have the United Center.
We need Mel Gibson to handle the Neimi arbitration ...
“You’d be driving a god damn Zamboni without this team. You look like a Vegas whore.”
Sorry, I know it’s terrible that his poor ex-girlfriend had to go through that horrible experience, but those tapes are the gift that keeps on giving.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 13, 2010 12:28 AM CDT reply actions
I'm slightly ashamed to admit
that I’m loving this point in Mel’s life. I hate him so much.
So the only thing that shames me about being this happy is the girl’s experience.
by northernsails on Jul 13, 2010 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions
So long as...
This Beaver movie comes out, Crazygonuts Gibson is on his way to redeeming himself (supposing the physical violence allegations aren’t true, that is… ain’t no redeeming that sorta shit). But… Beaver movie!!
It's the Chicago Blackhawks man...
by Campbell32 on Jul 13, 2010 1:39 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The shit I heard him say…and if there is more.
Even if the Beav’ out grosses the Titanic, I think Mel has crossed a line that he can’t return from.
He’ll be Hollywood’s pariah now. With all his money…it’s not like he’ll starve. But he can’t say that kind of shit and still expect people to flock to his movies.
Good point.
I really don’t want to get into the camp of appologists here, since … God… since that racist bigoted tirade is indefensible. But for what it’s worth, black people who are friends with the guy (Whoopie) on a personal level have vouched for him as “not a racist.” Still doesn’t excuse the words, but makes me think that their selection was more based on personal upbringing, speech patterns, self importance, and general obliviousness than any actual predjudice. The dude’s clearly an idiot, but a lot of dudes are idiots.
Again, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt by calling him an asshole who doesn’t understand the hurtful nature of his words. Once physical abuse becomes part of the picture though, replace “asshole” with “criminal.”
It's the Chicago Blackhawks man...
by Campbell32 on Jul 13, 2010 2:45 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Tell that to the people who love Roman Polanski.
I love the Leathal Weapon movies, and will just pretend that he moved to another planet, shortly after Signs.
Go jump in Toews Lake.
by shinkicker on Jul 13, 2010 9:00 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I love the LW movies too
and Braveheart and a bunch of his other movies. I just pretend he was taken over by zombies. What a disappointment that guy turned out to be.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Maverick
is one of my all time favorite movies, Mel Gibson has done some great movies, it’s a shame he’s so nuts.
Does anyone have links for his rants, I haven’t heard them.
Ditto for CNS
Here's a link
to some of the things he has said about his girlfriend along with other groups. There are a couple links to the audio on here as well. He definitely has some issues.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
heh
hack, this just turned into my quote of the week. It’s good-natured fun, I know you’ll understand that, so ya … you just said this:
“Maverick is one of my all time favorite movies….”
I think that might be worthy of a temporary internet ban.
www.mjt.org
I wouldn’t have thought there were even such things in this world as being or not being a Maverick fan.
www.mjt.org
alright, now you're just confusing me
so, you don’t like it, and you find it odd that I do? If this is right, say “yes”, if this is not right say “no”
Ditto for CNS
Well, first, I’m just taking the piss. But no, I didn’t think it was much of a flick. I mean, it wasn’t absolutely horrendous. I just thought it was a movie that you watch, grow 2 hours older, then promptly forget. So to have a passionate response about it … just thought I’d make innocent fun.
www.mjt.org
I LOVE Maverick!
My ex used to give me such grief for that, but I think it’s a great movie. I even have it on DVD (and had it on VHS once upon a time…).
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
News Alert!
You and finally agree on a movie. haha
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
Okay, stop it right there. I feel very strange right now that Maverick lovers are out-numbering the non-lovers by a 3-1 margin.
www.mjt.org
I wouldn't say
I’m a lover of it. It was just a lot more than I expected and I liked it.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
“My nipples! They hurt! They hurt when I twist them!”
Compadres! It is imperative that we crush the freedom fighters before the start of the rainy season......And by that I mean it’s time for the worker of the week award!"
by HjammerTime on Jul 13, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it's turned out that South Park
Has come pretty close to him in real life.
South Park 1
South Park 2
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
when was the last time you saw it?
you may need to revisit it. It is an enjoyable comedy.
Ditto for CNS
I think the Hawks should be looking to the Islander for help
I really like Frans Nielsen’s game and at $525k he would be a solid third line C allowing Sharp to move back to wing. Kopecky and a second might get it done as NYI still have to get to the salary floor, and really I’m pretty sure they have no clue what they’re doing over there anyways.
Everyone has their sanctuary. The Catholics have churches, fat people have Wisconsin, and I have the United Center.
What i'm worried about most ...
isn’t Ladd, Buff, and Steeg’s 40 points each. Some eager kid will get 30 and we’ll survive. My concern is the team chemistry. I always kind of paired up everybody. Hjammer had Neimi to talk to about growing up in their respective socialist hellhole. Hossa and TKop a communist hellhole. And Kane and Buff got to talk about which direction is the coolest to wear their hats. We can’t keep getting rid of the yin to a player that is staying’s yang.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 13, 2010 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions
I love this:
Kane and Buff got to talk about which direction is the coolest to wear their hats.
I do think it’s kind of sad that all of Kane’s PIC’s are out, although maybe it’s good for him. I love me some Johnny Toews, but he has the nickname Captain Serious for a reason, and now Kane seems to be one of the few big personality guys left in the locker room.
by blackhawkeyes on Jul 13, 2010 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Sharpie brings it.
Not so much in the media, but me thinks he’s a lockerroom force.
It's the Chicago Blackhawks man...
by Campbell32 on Jul 13, 2010 1:42 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree, he seems cool, although maybe he keeps it down with the media
They all have their place in the locker room, but until I 1.) marry a blackhawk 2.) work for the organization or 3.) become a stalker I really can’t pretend I know any of the players.
by blackhawkeyes on Jul 13, 2010 2:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Kidding about what the players talk about ...
but not about the chemistry issue. In a non-cap world, chemistry given more weight when determining who stays and who goes. Clearly, the Hawk’s don’t have that luxury.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 13, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
By the way ...
The Ducks?
They have some serious cap room, but has anyone taken a look at their defense as it currently stands? We got some shit going on ourselves, but I’ll take our shit ahead of that shit any day.
www.mjt.org
Campbell prefers being further east
For family reasons, supposedly it’s one of the reasons he didn’t stay in SJ
Go jump in Toews Lake.
by shinkicker on Jul 13, 2010 9:03 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
All I meant is that the Ducks look ridiculously weak on D, which is a weird predicament for a Carlyle team. Didn’t mean it in the context of Campbell or a trade.
www.mjt.org
And yet they didn't move on Hjammer
Go jump in Toews Lake.
by shinkicker on Jul 13, 2010 10:10 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
agreed. its going to be a rough year for the duck. i am sure we will loose to them in Anaheim whenever we end up there no matter how awful they are anyway.
Hey, maybe DW will put an offer sheet on Wiz! Either way, friends or not. Seabs vs Wiz. This happens next year.
"...can i have a glass of whiskey and a slice of bread?"
by west_fulton on Jul 13, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
wiz is in arbitration
I think he wants more-than-Hammer money.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
O/T To help you through the Cap-pocalypse
The Odd Couple, Episode 6: Kaner’s Big Day. See how Kaner celebrates when he takes the Cup home to Buffalo. http://bit.ly/d98g9E
Holy hell...
Probably the best one yet.
It's the Chicago Blackhawks man...
by Campbell32 on Jul 13, 2010 4:12 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
A question.
Why is it being assumed (by most it seems) that the arbitrator is going to award big $$ to Antti based on one team (St. Louis) throwing a huge contract at one goalie (Halak) with somewhat similar experience and stats?
Isn’t it at least equally as likely that the arbitrator would award $$ more in line with other contracts that have been signed by other RFA goalies with experience and stats similar to Antti’s? (e.g. Tuuka Rask 2 yrs – $2.5m / Jonathan Quick 3 yrs – $5.8m)
If Antti gets $$ more in line with these latter numbers it seems more likely we can keep him and have a little more wiggle room in filling out the roster, although it still would be very tight.
"Life is a long lesson in humility."
- James M. Barrie
That’s a good point. However, Tuuka Rask signed his extension back in November, aka one month into the 2009/2010, when everyone assumed that Tim Thomas was the clear starter. At that point he had only played 9 NHL games in his career. So he was signing a contract to be a backup. Obviously a good signing by Boston looking back!
Quick is probably a much better comparison. Niemi’s regular season stats look about the same as Quick’s did when he signed his contract. So that would be the smart comparison as far as Hawk’s management is concerned. Niemi will argue “yeah but I have cup experience” and then earning the big $$$ on playoff experience. But Halak had a way better regular season than Niemi. So that should be the pushback from management.
Basically, all this being said, my guess is arbitrator will give around $3 mill.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I meant to say… he should argue that Halak earned the big $$$ on playoff experience and so he should argue that his experience is clearly even greater.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure
That the arbitrator doesn’t award a $$ number to the player. I think that the way it works is both sides sit down with an offer, give arguments, and the arbitrator picks a side.
by oregon_hawk on Jul 13, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually I believe it is that the arbitrator can decide either of the two proposed numbers or anything in between.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
this isn't directed just at you
but when people say yes or no to a point in an argument, can we cite the source? it’s difficult to read this and just say “Oh, yes, Beantown Canuck is right because he wrote longer paragraphs” or “Hm, I suppose Ban sounded more convincing and compelling in his statement.”
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Um, I’m pretty sure I’m correct. I’ve read through the CBA section on salary arbitration (Section 12), and unless I missed it, nowhere does it say that the arbitrator must pick the Team’s proposed contract or the Player’s proposed contract. In fact, neither the team nor the player actually has to propose a contract. I’m sure they always do, but they don’t have to. They are given 90 minutes each to present evidence (and the type of evidence they can give is limited) and can provide a written brief no more than 40 pages long.
In fact the only thing I read in there that restricts what the contract can be (in terms of $$$ amount), is that it must be at least 85% of what the player earned the previous season.
Where have you heard that ’there’s no compromise’?
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
As a common sense concept, though, it seems reasonable to say that the arbitrator will never award a contract for more money than the player is asking for, nor would the arbitrator ever offer a contract for less money than the team is willing to offer.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I looked it up for the sake of everyone else
Section 12.9 (n) — p81 here: http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf
Salary Arbitration Decision
(i) Each salary arbitration decision must be issued by fax and e-mail
to each of the parties within forty-eight (48) hours of the close of
the hearing.
(ii) The decision of the Salary Arbitrator shall establish:
(A) the term of the SPC, based upon the Player’s or Club’s
election of a one or two year SPC, as set forth in its brief
and as consistent with this Article;
(B) the Paragraph 1 NHL Salary to be paid to the Player by the
Club for the season(s) in respect to which the arbitration is
conducted;
© the inclusion or otherwise of a Minor League clause (or
clauses) and the amount of Paragraph 1 Minor League
Salary to be paid under each of the season(s) in respect to
which the arbitration is requested;
(D) a brief statement of the reasons for the decision, including
identification of any comparable(s) relied on.
Can’t find anything about a hard number. Ban, if you do know where it is, feel free to quote, cite, link, etc.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
So basically, barring any further evidence to the contrary, I’m right :)
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I think
you’re right based on my review of the CBA too. The only hard, fixed number is the term of the Contract selected by the Hawks (whether is be a 1 or 2 year deal). The salary to be paid by the Hawks is up to the arbitrator based on the submissions of the parties.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark
Jiri Hudler last season
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Nikolai Zherdev
is the only one I can find anything on. The Rangers walked away from the award.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark
yeah
and it looks like the team can decide whether to ask for a 1-year or 2-year deal. Nothing about the salaries in arbitration. I’m not sure how “the arbitrator picks a side” became universally accepted fact.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
It wasn’t universally accepted. I never accepted it :)
Excuse me while I do a rendition of the “I’m right!” dance.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
will this get posted on Youtube?
otherwise, we only have your word for it. As you can maybe tell, it’s hard evidence or nothing! :|
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
blame Bud Selig
in baseball arbitration the arbitrator picks a side, and can’t go in between. In hockey however the only rule seems to be that it can’t be less than the team offered or more than the player asked for.
Everyone has their sanctuary. The Catholics have churches, fat people have Wisconsin, and I have the United Center.
The player
has to receive no less than 85% of his previous salary is all I know for sure
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
is that right?
because Lincecum took the Giants to arbitration this off season and I swear they picked a number between the offered contract/desired contract.
Go jump in Toews Lake.
By the way, it has to be a one year or two year deal, and the team makes that decision prior to the hearing.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 13, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Is the qualifying offer what the Hawks bring to the table...
Or do they put another proposal on the table at the time of the arbitration hearing?
If the Hawk offer being considered by the arbitrator is the minimum QO it would seem to weaken their position.
Also, are the QO’s made public, or is it just assumed that it’s for the minimum required?
"Life is a long lesson in humility."
- James M. Barrie
StanBow on Beach:
I don’t look at it as a maturity level, I think that’s part of his game," Bowman said. "That’s actually what sets him apart from a lot of guys. He scored 52 goals last year, which was a great year. A guy that can do that as well as be tough to play against, you don’t want him to lose that edge.
That’s a part of his game that’s made him what he is so we don’t want to discourage it. You have to do it at the right time, which I guess is something you can talk to him about. He’s certainly proven himself to be a multi-faceted player and we’re going to need that down the road.
well.
If SB is sold on beach, I’m sold. I don’t know squat about him. Seems like our management has a knack for getting good numbers out of forwards for good prices (kopecky,brouwer, et. al. for 1.2ish million each) – beach is also 1.2ish million.
Cool
by oregon_hawk on Jul 13, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Armchair GMing
Sharp to Toronto for Kaberle AND Soupy to Anaheim for a guy named Kyle Chipchura ($600K cap hit) and a 1st or 2nd round pick.
Here we can’t fathom losing either Sharp or Campbell and this guy gets rid of both.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark
Right under that in the comments is good too
A guy has us trading campbell to antlanta for a D-man who seems pretty overpaid (campbell and a first for Zack Bogosian @ 3.375 and a third) – this seems to take care of most of our cap problem.
and then we trade sharp to montreal for reasons passing understanding.
by oregon_hawk on Jul 13, 2010 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Regarding Sharp, Bolland and Seabrook
We’ve been tossing around your cap situation over at Japers, and my conclusion is that you will have to part with one of them in addition to getting rid of Huet’s cap number.
Just wanted to see if you all agree or do not agree on that conclusion.
FWIW, we’d all trade places with you in a heartbeat, so please don’t take this as piling it on or rubbing it in.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Or it could be Niemi
Huet coming off the books (one way or another) is for sure just based upon the way the team has been acting (spending).
by stanfordron on Jul 13, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I assume that Huet has to go, there’s just no way around it. I am guessing it’s via loan to a European team – there’s no use stashing him in the AHL, as he couldn’t be called up anyway and he’d just clog up a roster spot that could be used for development purposes.
As for Niemi, you’re right, they could walk away from him, but the options then become either Turco, Theo or AHL filler. Can’t imagine the team would scuttle the season with the latter option, and while Turco or Theo would be cheaper than Niemi, they wouldn’t be that much cheaper, and Niemi is a whole lot better.
And even if you let Niemi walk, you’re looking at around $5.6M to cover 8 roster slots (4 x F, 2 x D and 2 x G) – that works out to $700K per slot, leaving no cap room at all. They’d have to move someone in addition at least, but it could be one of the lower tier guys – Reasoner, Kopecky or Brouwer, I guess.
But that leaves you with a roster with great high end talent, and a bunch of stiffs at the back end. I can’t see Bowman going that route, can you?
Which brings us back to trading Sharp, Bolland, or Seabrook, keeping Niemi, and getting some better talent at the back end of the roster.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Actually, I think many of us can see him going that route
Our back end guys aren’t a bunch of stiffs. we sucked for many years, remember? We have some decent draft picks coming out of Rockford. Our core guys are the most important, and we have most of them for quite awhile. I don’t mind a 4 or 5 fresh faces on the roster.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Cool, thanks for replying. I don’t get to see that much of the WC teams, and while of course I do recall that the Hawks struggled for a number of years, I don’t have a good grasp on their minor league situation.
If they can get by for a year with AHL call ups, then they’re not is such bad shape.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
I think they'll be competitive this year
and likely make the playoffs barring any injury disasters. After that, it’s anyone’s guess, anyway. I expect Toews and Kane’s games to improve a lot with the playoff experience, and a full season of Hossa and Bolland will help, too. It’s not rainbows and puppy dogs, but it sure as hell isn’t storm clouds either. We’re not in an awful place, even with our cap troubles.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Thats my take on it.
Huet goes – thats a given. Then one of sharp/bolland/seabrook. Then we get a goalie for around 2m and back him with crawford. If that 2mish goalie is niemi, cool, but it could just as easily not be him.
by oregon_hawk on Jul 13, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Could be Turco, could be Theo – have to think one of them could be had for that number at the end of the summer.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
I agree with this
and parting with Campbell and his 7 million would be the best way to do it. As long as that contract is part of the Hawks’ payroll, there will be a struggle at the end of every season to come up with a roster without letting go of some key players.
Also, expecting another $2 million increase in cap space next year would be a bit foolish. There was a big jump in interest of hockey. The NHL benefited from the Olympics a strong Canadian dollar and increased viewership during the regular season & playoffs. I don’t see this happening again this year.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
Finding a trading partner for Campbell would solve a ton of issues for you, but I just don’t see it happening. 7.1 for the next 6 years is just way too much for any team to consider taking on.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Well hey
Lets not forget that not only do we have to find a place to unload his contract – he has a NTC. He needs to want to go there.
by oregon_hawk on Jul 13, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, yeah, good point. IIRC he can designate 8 teams that he will accept a trade to, or something like that?
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
yeah
He gives a list of 8 teams, we have 45 days to trade him to one of those (per capgeek). Or, we ask him very nicely to waive it. Its the NTC + the 7.1m that just makes it nearly impossible to move him.
by oregon_hawk on Jul 13, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Stan's just protecting his property
I mean, what else is he going to say, that one of the Hawk’s high picks has sh-t for brains? Look at that vid again from his recent fisticuffs and tell me he’s not beclowning himself out there. I honestly hope to hell he becomes a good player for us, but come on – that was just ludicrous. I don’t remember the last Hawk’s camp where a player went apesh-t on the ice w/o any provocation, then almost tears the other guy’s arm off. If Stan really believes that he has to goon it up like that in order to be himself, then I never knew Stan’s thinking on prospects to begin with.
Please.
Would you use the Reply button? Just using the grey box that automatically appears at the bottom of the page doesn’t attach your comment to the comment you are replying to.
You have to click the red reply button next to the time stamp of the comment you want to reply to. Then they fall into line and don’t confuse us. Ok?
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
totally off topic
While doing research on Mike Keenan I found this article from februari 12, 1990 that made me smile.
From From Sports Illustrated’s vault:
“Six of the Blackhawks’ top eight scorers, however, are from the pre-Keenan era, which suggests that the coach, not Pulford’s acquisitions, is the main reason for Chicago’s turnaround. Troy Murray, whose career had gone backward after a 99-point performance in 1985-86, is playing with renewed vigor. Defenseman Keith Brown, who had not lived up to his potential as the seventh selection in the ‘79 draft, has at long last arrived. Defenseman Doug Wilson, a Norris Trophy winner in ’82 but an oft-injured and declining player in recent years, is a candidate to be the league’s best defenseman again. Right wing Steve Larmer, who has not missed a game in eight seasons, has broken his pack-a-day cigarette habit and discovered that he has one more forward gear.”
As I said, totally off topic. I’ll let you get back to whatever you were discussing now.
Ingmar Bergman Shoots And Scores @ http://bergmanscores.blogspot.com
by ingmarWbergman on Jul 13, 2010 12:04 PM CDT reply actions
OK - heard you on the reply button
Will not happen again.
by Waylon on Jul 13, 2010 12:29 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
too late
it just did
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
lol, I'm glad
because otherwise I was thinking you were really dumb!
You get a rec for this.
by Katherine215 on Jul 13, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Since I'm a newbie, I thank you for the honor
Now, if I can just figure out how to post some of the graphics I’ve seen here lately…
it's relatively simple
Step 1. Make the graphic.
Step 2. Upload the graphic to an image-hosting site (photobucket if you want to keep it for posterity, tinypic if you just want a quick place to upload)
Step 3. Find the direct link to the image (usually you can figure this out by right-clicking the image once uploaded and selecting “Copy Image Location”)
Step 4. Add it to the comment using this code minus the $ signs: <$img src=“http://www.link.jpg”$>
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks, that will help a lot
Not too proficient at that so far – the last thing I want to do is screw up the site with some funky stuff.
You can't do anything
we haven’t already seen before! Sometimes, everything goes italic or bold, and one time the Z key broke, which was awful. But otherwise, it’s hard to break stuff. Just use the preview button before posting, it will tell you if you’ve really fucked up or all is good.
by Katherine215 on Jul 14, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Yo Waylon
Are you the same man who once healed my Internet? If so thanks. If not, nevermind. Either way, kudos, SCH posting Internet man Waylon seems like a good shit.
It's the Chicago Blackhawks man...
by Campbell32 on Jul 14, 2010 2:04 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Nope, not the same guy
I’ve tried to learn html and basically threw in the towel after one too many screw – ups. So I’m the last person on earth that would be some kind of go – to guy on anything technical.
wow, well then well done!
once upon a time we had a newbie poster who reply failed a lot. and then replied to the comments pointing out his reply fails….except he reply-failed in the replies. more than once. It was spectacular. so i clearly didn’t give you enough credit in this case.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 13, 2010 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions
rec'd for unintended (or is it???) hilarity
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
well done, sir
unless it was unintended. In that case you can blow a balloon.
I've been learning way more about the cap this offseason than I ever wanted to know
Thanks again, Bill.
Not that I expect this to happen (nor would I ask them to, they’re worth every penny), but for my own reference – say Captain Serious or Teeth wanted to take a little less money to help the team stay strong and competitive. Since they just resigned a contract, is there a timeframe where they can’t rework/resign a different one?
Also, sorry if that’s been discussed – hard to keep track when I’m cycling in and out of Cup joy and player loss rage.
there is no contract renegotiation in the NHL CBA
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Gracias
I’ve followed the actual seasons for years, but apart from seeing the roster changes preseason I’ve never actually followed an offseason, so little nuances like that escape me.
everyone's getting NHL CBA 101 because of the Hawks' problems
but it’s always better to ask and know than to assume it can happen just because another league does it a certain way, so you’re very welcome. :)
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 13, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Ahhh
Fuck the cap and all the BS. Who knows how this team will look come fall.
I’ve been enjoying the replay of the whole SC run, fun fun fun all over again. Except for having to hear the dipstick douche Pierre, I hope he gets fired.
I'd be happy if they canned Milbury
Who looks and sounds like Fred Flintstone, with the same level of analysis. Of all the guys they could’ve hired for that gig, they chose a real numbnuts.
Can he take McDouchebag with him?
They are, after all, joined at the…um… …
by northernsails on Jul 14, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
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