I See Your 12 Years For Hossa And Raise You...
by SamFels on Jul 19, 2010 12:50 PM CDT
356 comments
...17 years for Kovalchuk. This has some impact on the Hawks, as it means the Kings won't be adding this mutant to become a force that frightens my bowels into non-existence. Anyway, Kovy is heading back to Newark in a reported 17-year deal that could top 150 mildo. Some have suggested that this will start the dominoes falling amongst free agents, but I don't see how that works at all. No one is anywhere near Kovy's galaxy. But we shall see.
Look for a lot of Quick-for-Simon Gagne rumors to heat up. And I think that's all.
EDIT: Simon Gagne has been traded to Tampa Bay for former Hawk pilon Matt Walker and a fourth round pick, as the Kings are seemingly left with nothing but a handful of themselves. --McClure
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What do you think the chances are that this gets approved by the league?
This sets a ridiculous precedent.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 1:00 PM CDT reply actions
I was wondering the same thing.
I think the recent Hawk deals have caused a massive change in the contract landscape. How long the league allows it to go on is yet to be seen. It would really depend on how the deal is structured.
by Coz_Bulls_Fan on Jul 19, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh I bet
it gets approved. I don’t believe there is any type of player cap so they really can’t say anything.
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
I bet it gets approved too
but it’s a loophole that should somehow be closed. For example, a rule that limits the number of years that a player can sign for depending on their current age.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
the next CBA negotiation will be real interesting
Especially with Fehr advising the players.
They won’t risk another work stoppage right? They (players and owners) can’t be that stoopid right? Not with the chance to get a new network deal.
nothin but smiles
my Captain is better than your Captain
Worried about Fehr as well
We all saw what he did w/ baseball and I dont think we can handle another “insert word here”
2009-2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Chicago Blackhawks
Never underestimate
the greed / stupidity / short-sightedness of pro athletes / agents / league officials, regardless of the sport. We’ve seen time and again that the unthinkable can and does happen in these worlds.
Our Cup.
I’d like to see teams be able to to eat salaries in deals like baseball does, along with players being allowed to restructure (to a certain degree) to be able to lower their cap hits to stay with their current team. Or have it work like basketball does, where it’s less of a cap hit if a team retains its own free agents.
Chicago Blackhawks - 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Things have changed forever, we're the Ramblin' Boys of Pleasure
I completely agree with the second part
It would bring more stability which would help bring in more fans (and keep us all from going through summers like this), but the first part opens too many cans of worms. I know you stated “to a certain degree,” but that’s the hard part to resolve, agreeing on limits.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
The second part, giving a team a break to sign the guys they drafted, has some merit.
But allowing buyouts in the NHL would just bring back the disparity between the rich and the poor.
Now, you guys are Hawk fans, I am a ’Nucks fan. We are the haves. But it would make the cheap teams ( the have nots ) places where kids would come out of the draft, play 3-4 years and become a star, and head for the bright lights and big city.
The Cap works for me right now.
The sending salary part sounds good at 1st
Thinking about it now, how do they determine what the cap-hit is for both teams then? I would think that the team sending player and $$ would have the $$ part count against their cap and the recieving team would not have the full hit on their books.
Something like this: Player 1 has cap hit of $5mil but base-salary of $6.5mil and $7.5mil remaining. Team A trades Player 1 and $6mil cash to Team B. That would leave Team A having a $3mil cap hit for 2 years and Team B having Player 1 at $2mil cap hit.
Otherwise you could have a scenario like say, Hawks send Huet and $6mil to cover this season and a bit on next to some team that needs to meet the floor. Some teams would become true dumping grounds to take bad contracts and get paid for doing so.
I don’t how sending cash considerations can work in a Cap League
nothin but smiles
my Captain is better than your Captain
don’t how sending cash considerations can work in a Cap League
I thought you just explained how ;)
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't see the benefit now
Team A would have to replace Player 1 at less than $2mil for that trade to have any value.
nothin but smiles
my Captain is better than your Captain
After the Hossa Deal, Bettman huffed, and he puffed,
And did absolutely nothing – expect more of the same.
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
The PuckDaddy Chicago memorabilia contest is closed
Here are the results. The guy on here who took a pic of Scotty Bowman’s breakfast gets a mention (but not a prize). Some entries are really awesome/weird, it’s a good read.
That one is courtesy of our very own Sec 326 Bureau Chief
Chicago Blackhawks - 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Things have changed forever, we're the Ramblin' Boys of Pleasure
I was just gonna post that too
Sec 326 Bureau Chief won an honarable mention in the Puck Daddy Chicago Blackhawks Memorabilia Contest
So, at least he’s getting a free DVD – which of course he will be copying and sending out to all of us at SCH right? ;)
Contest Gallery: Greatest, oddest in Chicago Blackhawks memorabilia
I knew I never had a chance. In the last thread with my Huet photoshop people mentioned that they forwarded it to Greg Wyshynski at Puck Daddy. I just laughed because I’m pretty sure he hates me. And here’s the (humorous?) reason why…
I used to email Wiz once in a while and I would typically hear back from him. Then at the end of April, I sent him this email in regards to one of his articles which paralleled Trixie’s “Days of Our Defense”. And for any of you not familiar with the term “slash fiction”, it refers to “a genre of fan fiction that focuses on the depiction of romantic or sexual relationships between fictional characters, typically male.”
My email:
Hey Greg,
Do you read many of the FanPosts on the different SBN sites or do people just send you links to stuff? Based on your article Duncan Keith’s liquid response to Predators fan taunting, most of us at Second City Hockey believe the former to be true. Just curious.
A gal on our site has an ongoing storyline called “The Days of Our Defense” that she writes regarding a fictitious relationship between Keith and Seabrook (and Seabrook’s jealousy of Keith’s interest in Doughty since the Olympics). I know it sounds weird, but it’s actually rather hilarious and it passes the time between games. Your comment regarding Seabrook rescuing Keith from the penalty box a la “Officer and A Gentleman” was right on target and cracked us up.
Not looking for a shout-out, but I thought you might also enjoy the fun that your article spawned:
I’m On A Horse, Backwards, or: Why You Shouldn’t Expect Me to Use Statistics to Talk About Hockey
Thanks,
John
Wiz’s response:
I don’t read the FanPosts on SBN unless they’re featured on the main blogs or sent over to me. The “Officer and a Gentleman” thing is a go-to I’ve been using for too long, mostly inspired by The Simpsons using it during an early season (I think it was Homer and Marge at the power plant for some reason). 80 percent of my comedy is homage to The Simpsons and MST3K; the other 20 is because I drink whiskey and I grew up in NJ.
I’ll check out the Keith/Seabrook thing, provide it doesn’t become slash fiction. I really, really hate slash fiction.
Thanks for reading!
Greg Wyshynski
My reply:
Oh boy.
One week later:
Hey Greg,
I enjoyed your article regarding blah, blah, blah…
Yahoo response:
Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients. You do not have permission to send to this recipient. Connection refused due to abuse. Please contact your E-mail provider.
Okay, I’m joking about the last half, but the first part is true. I’ve never received a reply from Wiz since.
Does he know who I am??
Apparently so…
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
That was great!
but I’m a little disappointed in the grand prize winner. I thought the get well card was the best of the bunch (sorry Sec 326!). Who else would have one of those?!
by Katherine215 on Jul 19, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed
the eau di playoff beard was funny
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 19, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think I enjoyed
the guy’s Facebook responses more than the actual beard though.
by Katherine215 on Jul 19, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I was disappointed in the winning pick
I thought that card was awesome and a few others like the food and hair were pretty funny. But honestly, I was mostly disappointed because the winner wasn’t mine!
That DVD would be incredible to watch at the IMAX. Is it going to be playing there for a while? If so, we should definitely get drunk beforehand and have an SCH meetup.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, that's a good idea!
i figured it was just a 1-time showing, but I hope I am wrong. that would be cool to see a ginormous Toews raising the Cup.
side note – it amuses me that the spell checker recognizes “ginormous” as a word but not Toews, especially on this site.
by Katherine215 on Jul 19, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Who did the Verstig thing?
I can’t read the words and want to see them so bad. We need to get that for VerStig.
It’d be awesome to watch that vid together, and we should get a Cup shaped cake in celebration. The Kid and I were actually discussing that this afternoon.
Which leads me to OT — Michael’s has some awesome Hawks stuff. Went to get a pic reframed today and while checking out, saw an official pic of Toews hoisting the Cup, and OMG the feelings just came back again. So of course we had to get it and have it framed for the Kid’s Toew’s wall.
The sun never sets on a badass
I know, the Versteeg one
was awesome! I couldn’t read much of it either, sadly.
I would also love a Cup shaped cake, but really, any cake will do for me! I definitely think a meet-up of some sort for this is a good idea.
by Katherine215 on Jul 19, 2010 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Strangely, I can read most of it
- Some say his breakfast cereal contains only pucks and milk, and that his parents conceived him in the back of a Zamboni
- Some say he uses his skates to shave, and that his heart beats to the same rhythm as the intro to “Hot For Teacher”
- Some say he can chop wood without an axe, and that he sleeps in his gear the day before each game to gain spiritual strength
- Some say his hands are as soft as Keira Knightley’s hindquarters, and that the town of Lethbridge, Alberta has a light-up version of him in the town’s nativity display
- Some say that as a child, he fashioned his first hockey stick from the wood of a tree struck by lightning, and that all his feeder fish are named Koharski
- Some say that yellow snow becomes white in his presence, and that the city of Boston no longer documents its years as A.D., but as A.V. after his departure
- Some say that he’s never had a New Year’s resolution [bright spot – unintelligible] always wanted to lead the Grand March
- Some say when he suffers a scoring drought, [unintelligible], and that natives in foreign lands dare not speak his name
- Some say that as a proper gentleman, he tucks in his jersey, and that in his bedroom, gravity has no effect
- Some say he hates styrofoam, and that he was once worshiped by the Mongols
- Some say he can bake a cake with only his stare, and that hhe was once nominated for the papacy
by VerStig on Jul 20, 2010 2:18 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
nice bullet points
comedy…sparse.
not as funny as the spontaneous TMIMITW riff seen round here a month ago.
June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.
Agreed
Comedic fail. SCH should go into the plaque business.
Meaning, we should all become dentists of course.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 20, 2010 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm kind of disappointed, too.
I think I’ve seen much funnier “Some say…” lines about Versteeg elsewhere.
by Katherine215 on Jul 20, 2010 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I've always used the word Ginormous...
Much to the chagrin of one of my co-workers… it really pisses him off.
Strangely, this same person regularly uses the word irregardless, and insists it is actually a real word.
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
I have too,
I guess I just didn’t realize it was an actual dictionary-recognized word. Irregardless makes me want to stab pencils in my ears. Speaking of made up words, how about “refudiate”? That one was amusing me today.
by Katherine215 on Jul 19, 2010 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Even though she didn't make up a word
My favorite was when Condoleezza Rice said Saddam Hussein was “cavorting with terroritsts”… such a funny mental picture
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Jul 19, 2010 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
it's definitely daley-esque.
Now there’s a guy who can butcher the English language with the best of them.
by Katherine215 on Jul 19, 2010 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
a chip off the old block
We shall reach greater and greater platitudes of achievment.
June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.
So: I didn't win
I would like to NOT thank the judges panel. The cast and crew on this production did NOT do a fantastic, super-human job. But, I would NOT be remiss if I failed to give all glory and praise to…
(Loud orchestral swell, security guards begin to move)
Hey, wait… I’m not — OOOF - MUMPH PMUPH -
(Guards, muffing cries of horror and pain, carrying OUR HERO out like sack of potatoes — orchestra crescendos to triumphant finish)
But seriously, folks: I kinda figured I would come up short against sentimental stuff. Doesn’t bother me in the least. But I think the definitive answer over at Puck Daddy is derision over sorority paddle taking down the title.
Finally: PETRI DISH? That was funny.
WAIT FOR THE WHISTLE!
by Sec 326 Bureau Chief on Jul 19, 2010 6:56 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Isn’t it “Wysh”?
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Jul 19, 2010 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I was wondering this too!
CNS used it too and I kept thinking of James Wisniewski.
by Katherine215 on Jul 19, 2010 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Argh!
I Wysh I would’ve caught that sooner!
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
maybe Wysh blocked you because you accidentally sent
him Wiz hate mail after the Seabrook hit
by blackhawkeyes on Jul 20, 2010 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions
for the last time
can’t you put a decent shirt on and sit up straight?
June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.
I don’t care if you care
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Jul 20, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
???????????????
How does this get approved by the league? They had a hard enough time approving the Hossa and Pronger deals. He will be under contract until he is 44
Its Always ??? in Philadelphia
According to Hockey Independent, Philly has just sent Simon Gagne To Tampa Bay in exchange for former Hawk Matt Walker (yeesh) & a 4th Round Pick in 2011. If Stevie Y thinks he can protect Simon’s glass bones, all the better for him, but how in the hell did he convince Philly to take Matt freaking Walker as compensation?? Do they have any forwards left? It seems to me like all of Philly’s FA Pickups have been for D-Man.
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
Good move for TB. Frankly a steal if he can actually play the whole season or near it.
----2010 MOTHERFUCKIN' STANLEY CUP CHAMPS, CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS!----
Derrick Rose will lead us back to the promise land.
Tommy T is a defensive wiz!
#5 Brent Sopel Fan Club member.
Laddddddddyyyyyyyyyyyy
He’s a good player, but that might be a little short-sighted of Stevie Y, given that Stamkos is going to be due some serious paper, and Hedman might be also, once he develops more. The Ryan Malone and Matthias Ohlund deals may bite him in the sack, but those weren’t his fault. Not to mention Vinny’s albatross deal, but if he performs like he’s capable of, it becomes a lot more palatable.
Tampa looks to be competitive again, at least from a forward standpoint, which is a good thing.
Chicago Blackhawks - 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Things have changed forever, we're the Ramblin' Boys of Pleasure
The Butterfly Effect
This can affect the Blackhawks in a couple of additional ways.
1) The Devils need to dump salary to accomodate the Kovy signing. A trading partner with the Devils which has been talked about is the St. Louis Blues. One of the players in question is Jamie Langenbrunner. Langenbrunner’s salary isn’t ridiculous($2.8 million), plus he is a free agent next season. He would give the Blues additional experience plus he is decent set up man.
2) What will the Devils do about Zach Parise? I am sure they will do whatever they can to pay this young stud when his contract is up after this up coming season. However, if they go to arbitration, Parise could conceivably go west in two years. I am under the impression some team will sign him to a sizable offer sheet. My unfortunate guy feeling is that could be our foes from Michigan.
3) After Kovy has been signed there are obvious losers in this deal. The Kings will be looking for a concillation prize. It might not be Patrick Sharp to shore up their second line, but it will be someone. There were other teams looking at Kovy. They may turn their eyes at what Chicago does with Niemi. We all know the Maple Leafs would love to have someone like Sharp on their first line(of course they have their own cap problems).
That's a huge-ass motherfucking contract
As CNS says, what are the chances of this getting approved? This contract runs until 2027, for crying out loud Christ’s sake.
world ends in 2012
who cares
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 19, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
SCH road trip around the world?
anybody? anybody? Bueller?
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 19, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
That means
the Devils don’t have to pay the last 15 years of the deal I guess.
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
This deal is insane - he'd be 44 when it's over - and at that massive Cap hit til then?
absolutely nuts
this is going to eventually make the Yashin & DiPietro deals look prudent
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
*shakes head in disbelief*
I would have to figure he would make over 90% of the money in the first 10 years so they can buy him out some time after that.
If he retires, the cap hit gets taken off the books, correct? But if they buy him out, then it’s still 50% of the cap hit over twice the time left on the contract, so let’s say they buy him out when he’s 40. That’s like $4.5 million for eight years and they don’t get anything in return. Better hope they can talk him into retiring.
Maybe they are counting on inflation, higher caps and new rules in later years?
With all the predictions of eventual inflation once governments have to pay the stimulus bills, maybe 10 MIL contracts will be the norm then?
I suspect
the contract is front-loaded. If that is the case Kovy will get very few actual dollars for the last few years of the contract. That is where the pressure/reason to retire will come from. (Same as the Hawks contract with Panda).
by stanfordron on Jul 20, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
One thing you can count on . . .
there’s always a dumber dumbfuck right around the corner to make the first dumbfuck look smart.
Our Cup.
by 334Rules on Jul 19, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Jim Hendry also GM's a hockey team ?!?!?!
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Jul 20, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
He'll retire before that
still get his money but IIRC, the cap hit comes off the books.
Just win the next game...!
So we could keep Niemi for say
20 years for 60 MIL, back loaded? ;-)
then you have to "convince" him to retire or buy him out - not likely to see that sort of deal
mondo long deals will always be front loaded
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Mondo Long Deal
That sounds like a good screen name… I need a new screen name…
Hmmm… Mondo Long Deal
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
Hilarious
I thought of that after I posted… and then I thought, “who’s gonna call that out”?
Naughty Trixie!
With my luck, maybe I should try Baby Huey 39 ???
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
as much as i'm worried about saying this to you husler
that kind of sounds like genius in this case.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 19, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Careful Puppetmaster
you don’t want to lose all your friends on here by giving me compliments!
(Thanks tho)
Fuck it
$100 million for 100 years for Niemi’s services. If Ilya’s deal goes through…anything is possible.
and buy him out in year 2
just for the fuck of it. A $500k cap-hit for 200 years is hysterical.
No way Count Chocula (aka Gary Bettman) and the NHL approve this deal
I wouldn’t lose sleep over this contract because it ain’t going to get approved. No way, no how.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
I wish you'd be more confidence in your statements BLou
This whole wishy-washy style of commenting makes me doubt your opnions.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
er, confident
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish he'd stop making predictions
How’s your prediction about the Sharks grabbing Niemi look, eh buddy?
by northernsails on Jul 19, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Sort of disagree.
They look at the likelihood the player will be able to play out the deal. 44 is at the outside edge, sure, but not impossible.
Our Cup.
other than Chelios - name the last 44 year old non-goalie to play in the NHL
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Gordie Howe?
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree it may be a stretch. But the fact that Cheli played as long as he did lets the team argue it’s not impossible and that they signed the deal in good faith. I think that’s the test.
Our Cup.
IMO, Cheli is therefore an exception and that actually works against their argument. Only one player has done it in recent years, so playing until 44 is not likely.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
hossa is a machine
so he doesnt count
by jesus christos on Jul 19, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
This is why the NHL and KHL
need to work out a transfer agreement. These deals would be easier to swallow then as players in their 40’s actually do play in that league
nothin but smiles
my Captain is better than your Captain
Hey like golf!
A seniors league starting at 40 of ex-hockey stars. Can you imagine in 2030 getting the Cup team back together in the seniors league?
I kinda like this
nothin but smiles
my Captain is better than your Captain
by Johnny Lava on Jul 20, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
You got something against 42 yr olds?
Are you suggesting they “can’t perform”??
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
if you experience a contract lasting more than 17 years ...
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
by krome on Jul 20, 2010 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Haha!
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 20, 2010 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
The future solution to this might be to require that the Cap hit of the years after age 36 remain on the books
even if the deal is a pre-36 deal.
Perhaps with some sort of sliding scale for contracts signed by 33 or 34 year olds.
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
I don't see how this would work
What if a player really did need to retire early? Would there be exceptions? It get’s too complicated.
I still prefer my suggestion that they put a limit on the number of years a contract can be signed for, depending on the current age of the player. Then there are no issues down the line.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
sometimes a player and team legitimately want to do a deal that will guarantee the player finishes his career in the same place. I think we need to make some allowance for that, yet still protect the “integrity” of the cap.
Perhaps also tie in whether it’s front-loaded or back-loaded.
Our Cup.
Perhaps
a formula where the cap hit after the player retires is based, in some way, on the number of years remaining on the contract at the time the player retires. So, for example, the cap hit is bigger if Kovy retires when he is 36 vs. if he plays until he is 40.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark
How about
you can’t sign a contract past 40 until a player is 35 yrs or older?
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Like I said before
like the NBA. If you sign your own player, you’re allowed to go over the cap AND give them 1 extra year on their contracts BUT it’s limited to 6 years I think. Maybe do a luxury tax kinda of thing too so the lessor markets can pay more to free agents to attract them .
I think the incentive to sign the contract needs to be removed
But it can only work by targetting the team’s side. If the team has no incentive to sign a player that long, it wont. That also works against the player because they wont get those big albatrossian deals.
Also, a clause that means a player retiring early who’s under contract with a long-term deal only gets paid up until the year he retired would be great.
by northernsails on Jul 19, 2010 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Dirk Hoag from OtF has some pretty solid ideas
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Jul 19, 2010 4:27 PM CDT reply actions
I like it!
Ovechkin loses 23K/year because of the Kovalchuk contract!
A deal with the Devil(s)?
You’ve got to imagine Kovy sold his soul for this one. That is just one dandy of a contract from his perspective…
Seriously?
Are we worried over something like this?
Honestly, it doesn’t matter to me. No matter how great and talented you are, skills will always diminish over time and a contract of this immense size will hamstring an organization for a long time. Finally, I gotta believe that signing someone for this long gives them the Jordan complex, where they think that they are The Guy.
So, in summary: I dont care much about this because I think it will wind up biting whatever team/player/agent tries it in the ass.
huh?
So the Hawks will be hurt by Hossa’s deal in your mind?
nothin but smiles
my Captain is better than your Captain
no, that's not really what I said
I was talking about the concerns here that this might set a precedent. If teams want to sign players they think are spectacular for long, long-term deals, it will likely come back to haunt them.
by northernsails on Jul 19, 2010 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Long term deals like this kinda unsettle me ...
I personally don’t like the career/decade plus contract because, unless it’s a dyed in the wool character guy like Stan Mikita or Steve Yzerman, you never know how the player will fit in with the team in 4, 5, 6 years and beyond. And if things go bad, the team is hurt more than the player. The risk of possible salary cap issues (Campbell), locker room/character issues (Yashin), and injury issues (Dipeitro) are too high. The player usually can’t be moved because who would want to take on a contract like that and the team has few options.
That being said, there are obviously better risks than others. Yashin And Dipeitro you could see from a mile away. Hossa is clearly a better bet than Kovy because once his scoring touch diminishes I could easily see him sliding into other roles very comfortably and ever playing out most of his contract. I look at the Hossa contract as signing a guy to 12 years so he plays for you 10. The New Jersey deal is paying a guy 17 years so he can play 10 or 11. To me, this is a totally unacceptable risk and I can’t believe New Jersey took it.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 19, 2010 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions
You have to give it to NJ
this has got to be the worst signing in history. I don’t even think it makes them a contender, and I’d much rather have two $4.5mil per year guys on my team than one monster $9mil salary.
okay...
not as bad as the original post made it sound. 17 years at $102 million. Still a terrible deal, but with a cap hit of $6mil a year, NJ should be okay. Still going to hurt them long-term IMO.
In the long term?
Like maybe 10-12 years from now?
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions
come 2022, they’ll still have 5 years left on his salary
Which will effectively eat up 6-10% of the total team cap on a player that won’t be playing. I suppose there could be worse things to worry about…perhaps I’m a bit oversensitive to the cap after going through this off season.
Do we know how it is structured yet?
Because if it’s like Hossa’s, it won’t hurt them. I believe Hossa’s last 3 years are only for $1M, $1M and $750K. That’s why this contract and others like it are such a joke.
Aside from leveling the playing field, one of the major reasons for the cap was to keep player salaries in line. This is what the owners fought for. Then they go and exploit loopholes to get around IMO the most significant rule that they themselves put in place. It’s gonna be difficult for me to blame the NHLPA for the fucked up situation when the next CBA is negotiated.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
even if
he’s making $750k in 2025, it’s still a $6mil cap hit, right? I’m assuming there’s no way to circumvent this.
I agree with the 2nd paragraph of your post.
The loophole
I believe the loophole being used here is that the cap of a buyout is 2/3 the remaining money owed. So if a long term cap number was 6M/per but the current salary was 750K, the new cap number would be 500K.
Seems to me the fix is as simple as this; The cap of the buyout should be the higher of 2/3 the remaining cap or 2/3 the remaining salary.
But if he retires in 13 years
isn’t the remaining cap hit dismissed? That assumption was the basis behind my point. It therefore wouldn’t hurt their cap or their checkbook. Amirite or wrong here?
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
i see what you're saying...
it would make the current CBA a bigger joke than I had thought it already was if true
The thing about having Kovy's $6 million on the books in 2022
is that the cap will probably have gone up significantly by then. Not that I’m a businees major by any means, but I have to beleive that in 10-15 years, the NHL will have a whole lot more money. Considering the Winter Classic revenue, emergence of some of the smaller market teams, tv deals (I wouldn’t be surprised if we see more hockey in the coming years with the Olympic success and big market finals), and obviously inflation, I think the NHL’s economic landscape will look quite different than it does now.
I admit that this is a pretty risky deal (same as I think of anything over 10 years, even for Keith or Hossa), but it does make the cap hit managable right now. And as a Hawks fan, I’d rather have cap issues in the future if it meant winning the Cup now
by blackhawkeyes on Jul 19, 2010 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions
that's why
I listed the 6% figure. That assumes a $100m. payroll.
yep, I did the math but I just think it's interesting that for such a key player,
kovy could make only about 1/20th of the team’s salary. It’s crazy to think he would be the average salary if the cap increases that much
by blackhawkeyes on Jul 20, 2010 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions
true, but even at 40 he probably will still have a good amount of skill
plus the intangibles of experience and leadership
by blackhawkeyes on Jul 20, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
i dont feel like looking through all of this to see if the following has already been discussed.
my apologies if it has.
anyway…
although i thoroughly enjoy how it turned out, the hossa deal, along with this kovy one, the deals are ludicris. this frontloading shit is really a pathetic loophole in the cap and even though im not a huge fan of the cap these last few weeks, i dont think it should be able to be this danced around.
my idea to stop it is simple: if the cap hit annually is the average yearly salary of the contract, no individual year’s pay can be more than 10% (or 15, or 20, or whatever) greater than that average. done. if you want to sign kovulchuck for 17 years and pay him 12 million during his prime, you have to pay him 12(ish) million when hes 146 years old, too. that would stop this kind of shit.
maybe im the only one, i dont know. but i mean, my team is guilty of this and im still really not okay with it, so it must be kind of bad.
CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS-2010 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
I agree with you in some ways,
but I don’t feel like I can really complain about the cap since I don’t have many constructive ways to make it better.
I do think there should be a cap on the number of years a player can sign for. Or your idea of having all yearly salaries be within a certain percentage. But as we all know, then Hossa, Keith, etc. contracts would be worth more, and we’d have to have even more cap casualties.
To make up for the larger contracts, I do like the idea of a “hometown discount” a la the NBA. That way, teams get rewarded for drafting well and having good minor league coaching and systems in place.
There are definitely a lot of ideas to discuss for the next CBA, and it will be interesting to see how the issue of really long term contracts is addressed.
by blackhawkeyes on Jul 19, 2010 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Mikko Koivu actually has a bigger cap hit than him ...
Whenever something is going on in the NHL that seems ridiculous I have an easy to administer “Blame it on Bettman” policy. I’m not sure how this one fits into it, but it still makes me feel better.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 19, 2010 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions
My thoughts on ... everything
First off, how has everyone been? And fuck has it been awesome flaunting around my 2010 Stanley Cup Champions beer coolers. It’s great! Anytime any Leafs, Wings, or Nucks fan has something negative to say about the ’Hawks all I have to do is point to the cooler and they magically shut-up.
- Kovalchuk isn’t worth a 17-day contract let alone a 17 yr./ $102 million contract that will leave him collecting $6 million each of the next two seasons, $11.5 million for the following five seasons, $10.5 million in the 2017-18 season, $8.5 million for the 2018-19 season, $6.5 million in 2019-20, $3.5 million in 2020-21, $750,000 the following season, and $550,000 for the final five years of the unprecedented deal. Which means they {Devils} will pay Kovi $3.5 million to retire or move elsewhere at year 11 of the deal. Asinine.
- We’re complaining about how much Niemi might make during this arbitration process that could see him net close to $3 million. Yet the ‘Hawks in previous years signed Khabibulin to an annual salary of $6.75 that netted disasterous results that forced the hand of management to sign Huet to a lovely $5.625 million annually with even worse results. Now Niemi leads the ’Hawks to the Stanley Cup and we’re pissed that he might make $3 million per season (which he won’t – more like $2.26)? Doesn’t seem right if you ask me.
- The CBA needs restructuring and so does OT in the regular season. Neither will be rectified before the season starts. Next.
- Man does it feel good to be the CHAMPS.
- The Flyers gameplan for next season is to build a fortress around Leighton because why else would they trade Gagne for another useless defenceman in Ralph Wiggum. If Stan Bowman made a trade like this he’d be pitchforked out of town … well, out of this blog anyways. Say what you want about him or how he got the job, but he’s gotten more for Ladd, Byfuglien, and Versteeg than Montreal got for Halak and Philadelphia for Gagne.
- Eventhough it’s the off-season I’ll leave with a tune anyways Coldplay’s Viva La Vida.
2010 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS
It's been a long journey but in the end it was all worth it, and I wouldn't have ever changed a thing. The feeling is so surreal, yet so real.
by hawks61 on Jul 19, 2010 8:26 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Yes indeed.
Is that shit green yet?
It's the Chicago Blackhawks man...
by Campbell32 on Jul 20, 2010 1:22 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
That worthless piece of shit Neimi is trying to ruin this team ...
I think 99 out of 100 Hawk fans love what Neimi did in the playoffs last year and would love to see him back next year. The Neimi hate is purely because of the tight cap fit and doesn’t reflect anything about his potential value at all, especially vis-vis Slobby Khbabby and Huet. If there was no cap I think people would be screaming from the rooftops to sign him for 3 million. Personally, he could stink up the place like Heut for two or three seasons before the good cup vibes started to wear off. With that in consideration, if he wins arbitration andwe can’t fit him in, I’d send him off before Sharp every day and all night if I had too.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 19, 2010 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Dude...
I understand the money side of this, and the impact Niemi’s contract will have on fitting beloved teammates under the cap, but “worthless piece of shit Niemi”?
For all he has done for the Blackhawks, how does he deserve that? I am puzzled.
Would I ship him off before Sharpie? Absolutely. But I am going to drink heavily that day if it should come. What a great kid.
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
by Byfuglie33 on Jul 20, 2010 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd be willing to bet my SCH membership card
that Billy meant that sarcastically.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 20, 2010 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I posted something similar on BSH today
I’m literally stumped by Homer’s awful Gag-me for Wiggum trade. I’m sure someone over there will think I was rubbing salt in their wounds, but I also mentioned that even though the Hawks are in cap hell, Bowman hasn’t caught the short end of the stick on any trades so far IMO. Of course, time will tell.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m literally illiterate.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 20, 2010 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Not only is the Gagne for Walker (and pick) trade
ridiculous because they should’ve gotten more value from trading gagne, it’s ridiculous because Philly has a ton of defensemen right now.
Timonen @ 6.33
Pronger @ 4.92
Meszaros @ 4
Carle @ 3.44
Coburn @ 3.2
Walker @ 1.7
O’Donnell @ 1.3
Bartulis @ 600k
Obviously, a couple of these guys aren’t going to be on the team next year (through whatever means), so let’s say Bartulis and O’Donnell are out………then, your third pairing of Walker and Coburn have a combined cap hit of nearly 5 mil?! Wow, not good.
Ditto for CNS
Kovalchuk isn’t worth a contract? Only Ovechkin has more goals since the lockout. He had 41 this year, his smallest number since the lockout … and he’s had a bona fide number 1 centre just once (Savard was with him the first year after the lockout).
Also, right from the beginning no one liked Huet or Khabby’s contracts. I don’t get what you’re saying here. If Niemi gets 3 million there’s a real chance we’d have to walk away from the contract, or trade Bolland or Sharp. That’s the stress, not a lack of appreciation for what he does. My own feeling is that he’s worth 1.8 to 2 million. That’s not a complaint, that’s based on him having played 42 regular season games and never having been a number one goalie. The fate of those last 2 goalies we overpaid? That warrants worrying about a third in a row.
www.mjt.org
As I consume a "Cold One" in my SC Champs cooler -
I have to agree – Stan is getting value in return, Kovalchuk isn’t worth that, the CBA needs an enema, Shootouts suck, Long term contracts to free agent goalies go tick, tick, tick BOOM (Schadenfreud toward St. Louis), and damn, this beer tastes good!
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
by Byfuglie33 on Jul 19, 2010 8:56 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Question
how do sports like Basketball & American football do overtime? I know baseball has endless extra innings until someone wins, just wondering if any major American sports currently have draws.
basketball
unlimited 5 minute ot periods until theres a winner, football, one 15 minute ot period, and its sudden death. if no one scores, its a tie, but that is incredibly rare. once every 5-10 years or so.
CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS-2010 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
The NFL does ties
Which was news to a Philly QB a couple years back. They’re very rare.
Go jump in Toews Lake.
by shinkicker on Jul 20, 2010 8:29 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
they obviously changed things for the playoffs
you cant have a tie when there’s one game separating either team from the next round
by northernsails on Jul 21, 2010 2:23 AM CDT up reply actions
In the playoffs,
OT goes until someone scores. there’s no ties there.
by Katherine215 on Jul 21, 2010 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions
right
that was the gist of what I was getting at.
by northernsails on Jul 21, 2010 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions
oh, sorry
I read it as you thought something had changed recently in the playoffs but didn’t know what it was. my bad.
by Katherine215 on Jul 21, 2010 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions
They did make a slight modification to OT in the playoffs
See my comment from Wednesday . (Just below this)
Here’s the link again;
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
Yes, I've known about that.
I meant specific to how long the game goes (1 OT period vs an indefinite number if there’s no score).
by Katherine215 on Jul 22, 2010 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions
The NFL changed the OT rules for the Playoffs only
last March. Basically if the team that wins the coin toss kicks a field goal on their first possession, the other team is given a chance to score. Here’s a link to anarticle that makes more sense than I do.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
NFL’s OT rules are even worse than NHL, so we should be grateful (I guess?).
Frankly, I’m not a huge fan of the shoot-outs EXCEPT for the fact that I don’t run out of beer way before I run out of game. Without shootout, you would have this choice at 11:00 remaining in the third in a close game: stock up on beers you then have to chug if it ends in regulation; or go without libation for god knows how long into OT. I once sat thru 3x OT at a Wolves game. It was for the Calder Cup, so worth it, but damn.
Our Cup.
Isn't it true that the "cap as we know it today"
will be gone in 5, 6, 7 years and the impact of these long term deals will be very different? I think all these GMs / capologists have an idea where the cap rules are headed and are betting on that happening.
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
What an awesome start to the day. Thanks for sharing the link – now Bowman can do whatever the crap he wants.
Raining on the Parade
In the same article, Bowman also admits he doesn’t have a solution to our current Cap situation. Closing doors is a dumb move Its amazing to me that Bowman would make that guarantee. If we end up trading Hossa out of loyalty to Patrick Sharp my faith in this organization will be greatly shaken.
19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks
by HjammerTime on Jul 20, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
It's a message to Niemi
Stan is not closing any doors; I feel this is a ploy to tell Niemi and Zito that there is a max amount they have available to pay him and he can sign for that or try his luck elsewhere.
Exactly.
Although if I were Bolly or Brouwer’s agent, I might start checking my PDA for offers from other teams. They’ve got to move somebody, and if it’s not Sharp and it’s not any of the long-term contracts, well, we’re running out of options.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Jul 20, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
if they move Troy Brouwer and his 1 mil cap hit
I’ll officially start doubting the Bowmans
Ditto for CNS
Oh I agree that TBrouws should stay.
I think Bolly would go before he did. Either one leaving will make me sad, but I’m starting to accept that whatever they do will probably make me sad, so.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Jul 20, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Id send bolly
just because of the back injury
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 20, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
the only reason I'm hesitant about trading Bolland instead of Sharp
is because Sharp has so much more value in a trade. Sharp is the better player, but I’m a little worried that Bolland won’t bring us enough back based on what he could become. I think Bowman could really fleece a team of some young talent for Shapie.
I don’t want either of them traded, but I’m begining to wonder if keeping both of them is even possible.
Ditto for CNS
the other thing
is that sharp is an absolute steal at what we’re paying him. A Sharp trade isn’t about getting equal talent back, of course, its about clearing cap space, but still. Losing his talent hurts a lot when we consider how much value we get for how little we pay.
by oregon_hawk on Jul 20, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Value in a trade is usually proportional to value to the current team pre-trade
Guys like Sharp and Brouwer are currently more valuable to the hawks than are Bolland and Kopecky, and of course, Sharp and TBrouw will bring us more in return.
Bowman has been able to sell high on every player that he’s traded so far; I doubt that’d be the case with Bolland, due to injuries stunting his development last year. Who knows what he’s going to do.
Ditto for CNS
Basically though
We’re just looking to get draft picks/prospects anyway. So unless we can get Edmonton or Toronto’s 1st round pick next year, probably not much of a difference who goes from a return in trade perspective.
i'm not sure i agree with that concept though
Sharp and Brower have a value to the Blackhawks. It’s pretty high, since they both can score and have a smallish cap hit. But do they have the same value to another team, I dont know. That also depends on the market for a certain type of player (see Niemi and the non-existant goalie market). You know…supply and demand.
by northernsails on Jul 22, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I can see
Moving brouwer or kopecky.
Its going to be close – trading one or both of those guys, exchanging a 1.2m contract for 2 500/600k contracts is a good way to fill the roster. If niemi wants 2 or 2.25 and we can’t get turco for 1.5, we might have to trade them.
Sharp is staying (assuming thats not BS, like “we don’t need to make any more moves” from draft day), and we need a starting goaltender. we also need to have extra players. If we don’t trade reasoner, kopecky, or brouwer, niemi has to sign for peanuts (from Zito’s PoV) – around 1.5 million – for us to fill a roster and sign him. If not Niemi, Turco, who I’m pretty sure turned down 2m to play for philly
The way I see this going is that the management doesn’t want to compromise our depth at center. Toews/sharp/bolland/reasoner. I know I’d personally like to see bolland centering the third line than kopecky on the wing on the third line.
Here’s shits and giggles:
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Troy Brouwer ($1.025m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m)
Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Bryan Bickell ($0.500m)
Jack Skille ($0.600m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.150m) / Robert Klinkhammer ($0.500m)
/ kopecky returnplayer ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brian Campbell ($7.142m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
Jordan Hendry ($0.625m) / Shawn Lalonde ($0.773m)
/ John Scott ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($2.200m) /Corey Crawford ($0.800m)
CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $4,157,753
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,599,923; BONUSES: $285,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $85,077
Trade Kopecky and get a prospect back, and we can do 22 players with niemi or turco at a not-entirely-unreasonable 2.2m/yr. Trade brouwer and kopecky and we can have a 23 player roster with a little bit of space.
I’ve heard numerous people here on SCH say that we could put anyone on a line with toews/kane or sharp/hossa and they would produce. Maybe its time to see if thats true?
by oregon_hawk on Jul 20, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Trading brouwer would certainly be easier
than trading Kopecky or Reasoner (from a teams interested perspective). But TBrouw at 1 mil is a much better value than Kopecky at 1.2, and I think most people know this. With TBrouw being only 24, and having a 20 goal season under his belt, he’s right up there with Sharp in terms of value relative to his cap hit.
Ditto for CNS
True,
But he’s much easier to replace than Sharp.
Sharp is a veteran 2-way player who can wing or center. Brouwer is a good sized winger who can put up 20 goal seasons when winging for Toews and Kane (because finding space on the Ice is so hard when the other team has to worry about Toews, Kane, Campbell/Keith/Seabs/Hammer).
Another angle is this:
Kopecky is a UFA next season. Brouwer is an RFA (along with Seabs,Stalberg,Skille,Dowell, and Crawford). Brouwer is probably easier to retain next season (when we’re looking to retain seabs and maybe Crawford and Stalberg).
You’re right though, I think brouwer is easier to trade than kopecky. Sharp is easiest, because other GMs realize they can get him for a bag of pucks.
by oregon_hawk on Jul 20, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
this isn't a sharp vs. brouwer trade debate
I’m just saying that replacing TBrouw with someone making 600k, doesn’t gain you enough cap space to warrant the loss of the young 20 goal scorer. It was different with Steeg and Buff due to their high cap hits, but losing Brouwer will do the Hawks no good.
Ditto for CNS
Bolland trade talk is crazy. Does anyone really want to take this team down to one true center?
19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks
by HjammerTime on Jul 20, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree
Losing brouwer and kopecky for a players making half as much opens just enough space to have a full roster under the cap without losing sharp or bolland.
If we’re at all realistic about what we pay a starting goalie (by which i mean, I think we’ll have to pay 2-2.3m), we need to move some salary. It’s either Sharp, Bolland, Brouwer, Kopecky, Reasoner, or someone previously considered a “core” player.
I don’t see Brouwer, Kop, or Reasoner as un-replaceable. Deals there for players even 4-500k cheaper get it done.
by oregon_hawk on Jul 20, 2010 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Giving up Brouwer
with only a $1mil cap hit is absolutely ridiculous. Stan will not move him.
Reasoner and Kop are replaceable, I agree, and could be moved for Late Rd draft picks if we really wanted to dump them.
I thought Reasoner was also a center
That being said, he’s not expected to have much more of an impact than Madden did (sans the huge Veteran experience) is he?
by northernsails on Jul 21, 2010 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions
who is John Galt?
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 21, 2010 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great store, you should stop by.
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
Fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Blackhawks!
Fan of the not 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Isles!
by burpchelischili on Jul 21, 2010 6:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I have been there.
That question was a big promo ad billboard throughout the Dakotas.
by northernsails on Jul 21, 2010 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm happy that one of my favorite players
is “guaranteed” to be here for another year, but I agree, HT, I think it was still a foolish move to say that publicly. Sure, maybe he was saying that part for Niemi and Zito’s sake, but to also say he doesn’t know how to resolve the Cap situation pisses me off.
Is Stan thinking about what comes out of his mouth when he talks to reporters?! Maybe he doesn’t have a plan, but saying that to the public makes him look like a clueless ass. Not the kind of guy I want leading my Stanley Cup Champion team…
by Katherine215 on Jul 20, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
the statement about sharp not going anywhere is an odd one
Bowman has already flip flopped on 2 public statements, with his statements about not needing to trade anyone else after the atlanta deal and the one on offer sheets. The statement about Sharp’s future with the team is one that you cannot go back on without taking a big PR hit. Bowman may have wanted to downplay the hawks cap situation in order to get more value for his trades with his earlier statements, but this is different, he doesn’t need to up sharp’s trade value by saying something like this.
I would think Bowman is pretty serious about Sharp staying with the hawks, which is good news, if he can successfully fill out the rest of the roster.
Ditto for CNS
not needing to trade anyone else after the atlanta deal
Personally, I thought that statement was misunderstood. I thought Bowman was referring to what needed to be done before July 1st. Not what needed to be done to create a team for next year.
As for offer sheets, I think DW seriously surprised him with that offer sheet.
I'm definitely glad Sharp
appears to be staying, but I just think he needs to be a little more tight lipped with the press. One would think he’d have gotten McDonough’s “Talking to the Press 101” course out of the way already!
by Katherine215 on Jul 20, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Somehow, I doubt the Bowmans are taking the McDonough lunch and learn courses
but I wouldn’t mind not hearing too much from Stan until he finishes constructing this year’s team.
Ditto for CNS
Not sure what he said that wasn't obvious.
As far as I see there is no reason to move Sharp given a lose Bolland/Brouwer/Niemi alternative. And there was media reports Sharp might be on the block which he wanted to stifle early, and he successfully did that. That he doesn’t have a solution to the cap issues is a surprise to someone given no one knows what Niemi’s cap hit might be right now?
I don't think a GM
telling his competition he doesn’t have a plan to solve the cap issues makes him look like he knows much about what he’s doing. Maybe he doesn’t have a plan, but no need to make himself look like a weak, green GM to the rest of the league.
As for Sharp, I’m glad he’s staying, I just think making firm statements like that in the press has come back to bite him in the ass before (no more moves need to be made, etc). Why potentially do it again? He has no idea what could happen that could make it necessary to trade Sharp, and he could have to eat his words which, again, wouldn’t make him look like he’s in control of things.
by Katherine215 on Jul 22, 2010 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
A very curious quote. I hope Stan isn’t cracking under public pressure and saying dumb things to temporarily put off some bad press.
I want to make clear…Patrick Sharp is a dam fine hockey player who has a special place in my heart but this meme about the world ending if he gets traded has to end.
This organization traded Dennis Savard. Bobby Hull. Chris Chelios. Jeremy Roenick. The Eagle. Steve Larmer…..you can go on and on with this list…It happens and we shouldn’t get so sentimental.
19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks
I think being more sentimental comes w/ the territory
of winning a stanley cup. I know I expected trades and have seen enough of the players I love traded throughout the years, but when you win something that special it’s tough hearing and seeing the team that got you there go even if there is no choice in the matter. I will always remember every player on that team no matter where they go. I may hate them at some point for something but no matter what I’ll still remember he had a role in winning the cup.
2009-2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Chicago Blackhawks
The world won't end
and fuck sentimentality.
Sharp was as responsible as anyone for the Hawks’ championship.
He will be crucial to potential future championships. Did you like the Cup? Would you like some more?
At $3.9 million, he ain’t the problem. Moving Sharp (or Bolland) to keep Niemi is about the stupidest idea I ever heard.
June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.
Seems a good goalie is becoming the most useless need on the team.
1st a 4th D-man is more important than a goalie. Now moving the 4th to 7th best forward to keep a young good and potentially REALLY good goalie is the stupidest idea ever. Soon Hendry or Bickell will be more needed than Niemi. If we go to this “any reasonable 1.5M goalie will do” for this team thinking, we’re going to be lining up on the ledge really quick next year. How soon we forget that last year’s team in front of the goalie was MUCH better than what we will get this year.Man for man we kept equal or downgraded every position compared to last year. And until Niemi stepped up almost no one gave us a decent chance to win the cup with THAT great team because of the suspect goaltending. And now losing Bolland so we don’t have to downgrade the goalie too is the stupidest idea ever? I’m hoping it doesn’t come to it and Stan works something reasonable out with Zito, but if we DON’T keep Niemi at the expense of a 5th or 6th best forward, I’d say THAT would be more stupid than the other way around.
5th or 6th best forward
Ok, so if Sharp and Bolland are the 5th and 6th best forwards on the team then who is the 4th best forward on the Hawks? I get the top three but was wondering who you had as fourth.
And until Niemi stepped up almost no one gave us a decent chance to win the cup with THAT great team because of the suspect goaltending.
I’m sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about. The NHL players were asked who would win the cup and the Hawks were picked second (~27%) most likely to win it all. The Hawks were the favorites coming out of the west.
Dang. They just traded Reasoner
the 4th best forward…ah well. JK Actually I miscounted and you caught it. I should say 4th or 5th best forwards.
As to the NHL players thing, was that before the season? Remember before the season we didn’t have a known goalie problem, so those estimates were reasonable assuming we had better than average starting goalies. By March, if that vote was taken, I’m not sure the results would have been the same. If you put a Turco, Crawford combination on the Hawks before last season, would we have still been favorites with that team? Personally I tend to doubt that, but who can really know?
Awesome call
Oct 15…gotta hand it to you….right on the money!
Now I have to go through all your posts to see if you waffled in March/April. ;-)
in this defense, many goalies look a heck of a lot better than they normally would
not using that as proof or reason to let Niemi go…just saying.
by northernsails on Jul 22, 2010 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions
really, much, that, don't, and that
all words that I would’ve missed and or de-emphasized had you not capitalized them.
Listen, I don’t want to lose Niemi, but you are making things black and white when they aren’t.
The reason that most people would prefer that we keep sharp, bolland, and/or hammer as opposed to Niemi is because we favor the known over the unknown. We don’t know what Niemi will do over a full season as the starting goalie. I suppose we can’t know unless we give it a shot, but we’ve given up so many (relatively) known quantities this offseason that it becomes a little scary to lose even more. You could argue that hammer and Bolland’s sample sizes aren’t much bigger than Niemi’s, but at least they have full seasons under their belts.
Ditto for CNS
by hackerar on Jul 22, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks.
I think you kind of crystallized in my mind why I feel so different than many who wouldn’t mind losing Niemi. I think perhaps were are looking at different criteria. I think you’re right…many are saying Niemi is unknown and thus not worth say 3.5-4.0M because he played in front of a good team and is not proven. And if he craps out next year, then not only are we stuck with a bad goalie but a bad contract AND no Sharp/Bolland/Hammer to boot. Not worth a 3.5M, trade a known good guy away risk. Makes sense.
I’m looking at it from more a raw talent I saw at the games last year. The speed of his legs. The improvement in the glove hand. The ability to pretty much do a full split and cover the bottom of the net. The reflexes and anticipation during shootouts, when the best in the league couldn’t beat him. In my mind, you can’t teach that, experience doesn’t help that and often you can’t draft that or trade for that. Niemi’s minuses? He can improve positioning, puck handling and rebound control. To me, those are teachable and experience improves them. So in my mind I think we’d be losing a rare talent that will only get better and who has the tools to be special. In other’s minds, we’re taking a chance on an unknown, risking a good proven talent.
I think both are reasonable opinions now and I see why everyone here wants to keep him IF we don’t have to lose a good player…..then we have the best of both worlds. Thanks for helping me clarify this in my mind!
I really dont think anyone here "minds" losing Niemi
as much as we would be willing to part with him if he listens to his agent too much and his agent winds up being jackass of the year.
by northernsails on Jul 22, 2010 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Awesome, I'm glad I could help
the problem is that when we have to lose guys, and we need to make choices of player A over player B, we turn it into a debate and make it seem like we don’t even like one guy because we are trying to make our point firmly. In fact, many of us like Nemo and want him to be our starter next year, but that sentiment may not come out as we make our points about why sharp/bolland/hammer are more important in this instance.
This is why teams don’t like to go to arbitration. They have to downplay the significance of a player’s contributions when they still value the very same player that they are (somewhat) tearing down.
Ditto for CNS
Yes, those things happened
and the team went on to suck ass, more or less.
So let’s review: trading really good players who are beloved by fans = bad.
Our Cup.
I just saw a headlne on MLB.com
“Posey, Panda put Giants on the board” and I was like “Why are they writing about Hossa on this site”
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
I saw that too
They’re stealing SCH material. Sue ’em.
"i need to watch this harry potter movie on tv on acid."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jul 15, 2010 3:30 PM CDT
I have witnessed the 2005 World Series championship, Mark Buehrle's perfect game, and the 2010 Chicago Blackhawks Stanley Cup championship in my lifetime.
RIP Bob Probert
by chisoxfan1473 on Jul 20, 2010 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions
They're making a shitload off the merch
but I’m pretty sure dreamworks is the only one with a case.
And I love both my Pandas, the Venezuelan one is finally coming back to the high bar set by the Slovak
Go jump in Toews Lake.
by shinkicker on Jul 20, 2010 7:56 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
O/T To help you through the summer...
…The Odd Couple Ep. 7: The ESPY’s. Featuring Tazer, Kaner, Crosby, Ovie and plenty of red carpet T & A http://bit.ly/biGQwv
Sharpie stays, and all is right with the world
At least for today – but as I thought previously, if Sharp was traded then it would be much more difficult to convince the newbie fan base that they’re not just chucking next season because of the cap issues. Stan can only go so far in trading away his current players – and speaking of which, now that LA has admitted that they desperately need a top – flight defenseman and have $16 MM to play with, what about Soupy? I don’t want to see the guy go, but this would appear feasible now (of course, that’s if he waives his NTC to go to LA).
LA?
There’s no way that LA wants Campbell. They are interested in Kaberle because he only has 1 year left on his deal (4.25 cap hit), and they think he can help them for 1 year. I would assume that Doughty’s new cap hit will be at least 6 mil/year, so I can’t think of any conceivable way that the Kings could or would pay Campbell 7.1 AND Doughty 5.5-7 mil. Oh, and Jack Johnson’s 1.425 mil cap hit will be going up after this year, in addition to Doughty’s.
Ditto for CNS
Yeah they wouldn’t pay Kovie. They sure as hell aren’t to going to pay Campbell.
19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks
by HjammerTime on Jul 20, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Sharpie staying
isn’t much of a surprise IMO. His $3.9m salary is fairly reasonable, plus the Hawks have traded scoring already in Steeg Buff and Laddy. Moving another scorer would be hard to replace.
After crunching the numbers into my trusty Tandy computer, I am inclined to agree with Waylon. Time to move Soupy.
Before I start my opening tirade, let me say that I like Soupy, I don’t wanna see him go, and I understand his ability and contributions to the team. That being said, I can’t help but think moving Soup is the best solution both short-term and long-term.
Look at it this way – next year Seabs is an RFA. Seems likely the Hawks will bring him back and he will be in line for a hefty salary jump. Say Seabs re-ups for $4.5m (probably a conservative estimate) – that would have the top 4 D-men (2,7,4,51) pulling in over a third of the team salary. Add 19,88,81,10, and 36 to that and that leaves the Hawks with about $13m to sign 7/8 forwards, 2/3 D-men, and 2 goalies. Not a pretty picture.
Earlier someone posted a Soup-to-Panthers rumor for McCabe. I’m not gonna attempt to compare McCabe to Soup, but there could be merit to this idea. McCabe would give veteran presence on defense and give youngsters like Lalonde and Vishnevskiy time to ease into the lineup. Also would give cap relief of $1.35m this season. Next year, it would give the Hawks flexibility. If the Hawks feel he is worth it, they could bring him back at a reduced salary, or they could let him and his $5.75m salary walk and use those dollars elsewhere.
Been trying to figure out a solution to the cap conundrum and this is the one I keep coming back to. Unless there is more talent on the Thrashawks roster achin to move north.
WWTD?
it all sounds so easy
Soup gets to choose 8 teams that the Hawks can trade him to, why would florida or atlanta be on that list? I believe that Soup is pretty intent on staying somewhat close to home (ontario) and I’m sure he wants to go to a team that has a serious shot of contending for a cup, which neither of those teams really do.
The Hawks probably aren’t going to be able to trade campbell. The way I see it, they only have a couple options to get around this year’s cap constraints:
1) Trade Bolland or Sharp with very little salary coming back
2) Squeeze a million out of the roster by moving guys like kopecky and reasoner, and go with really cheap options at goal, ie, Crawford and Toivonen
Ditto for CNS
well, three options
1) trade bolland or sharp
2) squeeze out a mil and hope they get nemo at a sub 3mil cap hit
3) go real cheap at both goalie spots
Ditto for CNS
I think everyone
on the Hawks will be staying until Niemi is either signed or goes through arbitration. Opening up any kind of Cap space right now would only help Niemi and his agent get more money.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
In negotiations, maybe
But I’m 99% sure that the arbitrator cannot take things like current team salary cap situation into account when deciding on the player’s contract $ amt.
Hack’s right – moving soupy would be a small miracle, with his 7million + contract and NTC.
You're right about
the arbitrator not being able to take the Cap into consideration. The point I was trying to make regarding the wait for arbitration was the Hawks will know what the outcome of the ruling is. If the Hawks win, the amount they offered might be low enough where they might not have to adjust to meet Cap requirements. If they lose, they will have to decide to trade Sharp or Bolland to open up space to sign Niemi or let him go to free agency.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
Who cares about the newbie fan base if they think that?
really, if you plan on rooting for a team, root for the duration. Thick as thieves, come hell or low tide.
by northernsails on Jul 21, 2010 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions
It was only a speculation
Never a shortage of dumb GM’s these days.
The Kovy deal is crazy, but the Gagne deal is insane.
Matt freaking Walker and a 4th rounder for Simon Gagne? One of their best forwards for a bad-to-mediocre defensemen and a mediocre pick? Exactly how drunk/drugged/batshit out of their minds/hallucinatory were the Flyers execs who signed off on that one? And Walker, currently their eighth defenseman on the roster, only has three more years on his contract at about $2M a year! Yeah, that sounds like a real coup. It boggles my mind that teams will occasionally go and do something like this. I can only chalk it down to the mystique of Stevie Y. The man must have Jedi mind powers or something: waves hand “This is the contract you’re looking for.”
Whoever said that Stanbow at least got value back from our players despite the fact that the entire league knew we needed to trade was right. The Flyers got spare parts when they tried to trade out from under a cap crunch. At least we picked up guys and high-ish picks who will potentially bolster us this year and will definitely help out in the future.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Jul 20, 2010 11:52 AM CDT reply actions
I laughed pretty hard on that deal
just goes to show that drugs are a problem in all parts of society, no matter what your financial status
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 20, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I will admit... watching BroadStreetHockey go crazy was entertaining.
There was an absolutely lovely progression from:
“Gagne is getting traded?”
to…
[paraphrasing] Gagne is getting traded to Tampa? What do we get back? Smith, Tokarski, Tyrell, and Wishart? Even though we’re overloaded on goalie prospects, I wouldn’t object to us picking up Tokarski, and Smith wouldn’t be a bad return with some prospects! [/paraphrasing]
And then they found out it was Walker and went from hope to abject despair (yeah, these are actual quotes; the BSH thread is priceless):
“NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
“What the fuck?”
“Please be fucking joking.”
“you’re kidding right? haha… i’m still nervously laughing…haha we didnt just trade gagne for a bag of pucks did we?” [to which everyone answers ‘yes’]
“with the 1.7 million coming in from Walker, he cant sign Turco at league minamum and be under the cap.”
Ah, schadenfreude. It’s a beautiful thing.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Jul 20, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Considering
they were all taunting us for the “dismantling” of our team, I’d have to agree that this was pretty funny.
yeah
they were laughing at us for doing exactly what every team has done since the lock out. Successful players want to get raises. Pay your core, move your role players, Wings, Pens, Us, all did the same thing, difference is our core is better than either of those teams (and Philly, who apparently really dont care about having forwards)
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 20, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm really surprised they got rid of him
instead of, say, Hartnell – who’s earning a ludicrous $4.2mil, btw – and if they wanted to still have a big body, they could’ve traded for a cheaper one, including certain ex-‘Hawk in Atlanta… (though I’m certainly not complaining, and doubt ATL would give him up easily considering they just got him).
I can understand if they were worried about Gagne getting injured, but getting yet another D-man in return is just mind-boggling.
I think they consider Chewbacca part of their core
I would have said the same about Gagne, except for the injuries, probably easier to offload Gagne, however I would think they would want some value in return
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Jul 20, 2010 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
What. No really, what.
I did not know that Harnell was earning a cool $4.2M. In which case, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING. Seriously, I mean, what? If it’s a Gagne v. Harnell question, that’s not even a question because the answer is always Gagne.
Maybe they really are trying to rebuild the BS Bullies? As in, they’ll keep guys who have little to no offensive upside, in favor of dudes who will scrap and then they’ll hope that it intimidates opposing teams? Somehow, I don’t think that will work in today’s NHL. Though it will feel good to laugh at them when they’re once again the low seed (or the team that doesn’t make the playoffs) in the weakest conference, compared to our hopefully still-decent showing against the League’s toughest competition. Have fun playing the Habs competitively next year, Philly. We’ll be here polishing our Cup.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Jul 20, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Me too
I didn’t know about it until just there when I wanted to look at Gagne’s Cap hit & Philly’s Cap situation. I had the exact same reaction as you. I get it if they still want size, but I honestly did a double-take at that salary.
Maybe it's a Huet situation?
They know they overpaid for him, and then it starts to become really obvious that no team in their right mind will take that ridiculous contract in trade so they’re stuck with it? That would be my best guess for why they could clear Gagne off the roster but not Hartnell. At that hit, what team in its right mind would take Harts? Not my team, that I know for certain, and I feel pretty sure that I could apply similar logic to another 29 teams across the League. So maybe Hartnell is untradeable.
Still, pull a Huet and waive him, trade him, send him to Europe, do something. Anything but send your best forward to another team in the same conference for basically a bag of pucks. Christ, what a shitty trade. Stevie has to be happy, but I can’t imagine that the Philly brass are.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Jul 20, 2010 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think so
I mean, Hartnell isn’t totally useless; Byfuglien’s making $3mil/year and Hartnell has better hands, so I can see a lot of teams wanting a player like him even if his Cap hit is on the high side. Your comparison isn’t totally fair because with Huet GMs don’t really know what they’re getting, but Hartnell is fairly reliable (not to mention the fact that the goalie is the most important position in the game, where stability is one of the most desirable assets).
re: "(not to mention the fact that the goalie is the most important position in the game, where stability is one of the most desirable assets)."
Read the last 6 to 8 to 10 threads re our cap problems and how best to solve them.
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
the fact that the goalie is the most important position in the game
While I tend to more agree than disagree with that statement, seems most of the masses here think it’s less important than a 4th D man (Hammer) or 5th or 6th forward. (Sharp/Bolland). That’d put the goalie somewhere in the bottom 50% of this teams priorities. I’ll be interested in the responses to your statement.
Hammer is 4th D man by circumstance, not talent.
He’s only a 4th D man (I prefer to say 2nd pair) on the Hawks because of the talent level of our top pair. He would be a top pair D man on many (I dare say most) other NHL teams starting next season.
Whether a top pair (in terms of talent) D man is more important than the top goaltender on a team is debatable (as is painfully evident by the never ending discussion of it on SCH).
Bowman is obviously trying to work it so the Hawks can have the luxury of having both a 2nd pair of D men with 1st pair talent AND their top goalie for next season. If he pulls it off I suspect we’re going to have a “these guys are the best in the league” top half of the roster and a “I hope these clowns don’t screw the pooch” bottom half. Should make for an interesting season.
"Life is a long lesson in humility."
- James M. Barrie
by nextgame on Jul 22, 2010 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very fiar summary
I can’t really disagree…but I’d still like a Niemi in the top half vs a Turco in the bottom. Hopefully we are nickel and diming our way to a Niemi compromise.
In my dream world
Campbell has Philadelphia as one of the teams that he has approved. Bowman could trade him for 2 or 3 cheaper players.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
Heck if they give up Gagne for Walker
just think what we could get for Campbell!
In my dream
we get Walker back straight up for Campbell. haha
Although I would consider trading Campbell and a pick for Walker and Meszaros The Hawks would pick up a minimum 2.4 million in Cap room.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
this may go down as the worst contract in the history of sports.
Unless the devils decide to dump their defense first mentality.
"from the Chi, the city of hella haters, where we keep rising to the top like elevators. Hi haters I'm back off hiatus." - grammy family
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jul 20, 2010 7:15 PM CDT reply actions
Oh shi-
Toronto – The NHL has rejected Ilya Kovalchuk’s 17-year, $102 million contract with the New Jersey Devils on grounds that it circumvents the league’s salary cap.
The report is according to TSN Canada.
Report: NHL voids Kovalchuk deal
Second City Hockey Most Postingest Poster of 2009
NOW STOP IT RIGHT HERE
Yo, comment on this shit.
This is exciting.
Where the fuck is everyone? I thought this was, like, a popular blog now?
Second City Hockey Most Postingest Poster of 2009
NOW STOP IT RIGHT HERE
some people's computers died
and some people have hell to deal with in the next week. but other than that, it’s just everyone being lazy.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 20, 2010 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
don't bandwagon fans hibernate until October?
that or the “THIS TEAM IS BEING DISMANTLED BY THE SALARY CAP” scared them all away.
That and...
some of us born again lurkers are either refraining from comment and chewing fingernails until Niemi’s arb goes through, or just don’t know a lot of the inner workings of trades / or the relative talent of prospects they’ve never heard word of.
I’m a little from column A, a little from column B. Also, I wish people would stop jinxing The Rat. If he gets traded I’ll BAWWW and drink Whiskey until the season starts, or my liver fails.
by ForAllYouYoungHockeyMoms on Jul 21, 2010 6:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't get time at night unless the Hawks are on
I sit around playing NHL 10. Makes work go by faster though, so I’m commenting now…
Surprised the NHL rejected it. I think if it was a few less years it would of went through, look that drop off was bad but still w/ a 17 yr contract, I didn’t expect it to pass.
2009-2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Chicago Blackhawks
Whatever, man. Use your goddamn phone to comment it while you're driving down the tollway.
Be a true fan.
Second City Hockey Most Postingest Poster of 2009
NOW STOP IT RIGHT HERE
i'll be sure to do that
once i get my smart phone back from the highway cop who confiscated it.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Jul 21, 2010 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
This is too funny
/grabs popcorn to watch upcoming shitstorm
"Kane is skating as if his mullet is on fire." - 6/9/10, 10:06PM CST
This blows. Who cares about the CBA? Its gone is a few years. Now we will get stuck with him in LA or Vancouver.
19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks
I think he stays in NJ
Although now Parise might not. Then again who knows – this whole thing is a soap opera.
"Kane is skating as if his mullet is on fire." - 6/9/10, 10:06PM CST
Hey it's about the only exciting thing in the off-season
Thankfully were not reading about the Hawks and there “off-season” troubles
2009-2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Chicago Blackhawks
In other news
The NHL has rejected the Gagne/Walker deal on grounds that Homer can’t possibly be that stupid
WWTD?
I can't believe it.
I would have bet (a great deal of) money on Bettman not having the stones to put the kibosh on this.
In just a matter of hours? Where’s all the huffing and puffing?
Perhaps after the Hossa deal, they had a plan in place for the next “Mondo Long Deal”?
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
I can't believe it.
I would have bet (a great deal of) money on Bettman not having the stones to put the kibosh on this.
In just a matter of hours? Where’s all the huffing and puffing?
Perhaps after the Hossa deal, they had a plan in place for the next “Mondo Long Deal”?
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
Did you double down?
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 20, 2010 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
My computer locked up when I hit the post button...
And this happened… beats the hell out of me!
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
I wonder what made
Hossa’s and Keith’s deals ok, but not Kovy’s. Age? Though 42 is pretty darn close to 44.
All this drama, and it’s still not settled. Is the consensus that NJ will tweak the deal a bit or will Kovy start the circus all over again?
by Katherine215 on Jul 20, 2010 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably age and the amount of money involved
This one clearly looks like it was just made that many years to spread out the average cap hit per year
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
Maybe more like the straw that broke the camel's back
I think that it was more the fact that we signed Hossa, then Philly signed Pronger, and the NHL was finally all, “well crap, this is a slippery slope, we’re going to have to cut off these front-loaded contracts somewhere…” and when a 17 yr deal was made and everyone outside of NJ went “WTF?”, the NHL decided that this might be a good place to try taking a stand. I’m sure they’re thinking they should’ve taken a stand with Hossa, but they didn’t and now they have to.
As for Keith’s deal, I thought they submitted it to the league for approval before officially announcing it. At least I remember that being said when it came out. And it’s actually more reasonable than Kovy’s, since Keith’s contract breaks down in the way that it decreases in a consistent (~$1m/yr) manner, as opposed to Kovy’s which was all MONEYMONEYMONEYoh now you’re old, here, drop down to league minimum now. Plus, don’t D-men tend to retire later than fowards do?
Exactly
This wasn’t a shot across the bow, this was an audacious kick in the nuts to the league. They were left with no choice, although I admit I was doubtful they’d do much based on past performance.
The guys who put this contract together must have walked out of the conference room wearing specially fitted pants and wheel barrels to carry their incredibly big balls.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 21, 2010 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Behold the PC that was broken
Cast off the ranger and become poster king.
by northernsails on Jul 21, 2010 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions
this
blackhawks just did a better job of not making it so obvious
by Coz_Bulls_Fan on Jul 21, 2010 12:35 AM CDT up reply actions
IMO Hossa's and Kovalchuk's contracts don't compare
- Contracts ending when a player is over 40 seems to be when things get shady. Looking at it that way, 44 is a 100% increase from 42 and therefore is a big leap past that imaginary boundary.
- 17 yrs is a 42% increase from 12 yrs
- Hossa’s contract pays him $1M over the last 4 yrs. Kovy’s pays him $7M over the last 7 yrs (almost twice as long) and only $550k for the last 5 yrs ( nearly half as much). Most players don’t even get full contracts for that length!
I’m not defending Hossa’s contract – all these contracts are a sham – but Kovy’s contract is not even close to Hossa’s. It pretty much is twice as bad and it was apparently the straw that broke the camels back. Allowing this to go through as is would’ve cost the league any creditability it had, which isn’t saying much.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 21, 2010 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions
They're going crazy about it
over at InLouWeTrust, with Hossa’s name being mentioned a lot. I think the deals compare somewhat , even if only because there is no other contract with which you can compare Kovy’s deal. I think the NHL regrets not voiding Hossa’s deal, and realise that if they didn’t void this deal, it was practically anything goes.
Still, it’ll be the first thing on the agenda when the next CBA is getting negotiated.
Heh, I don’t know, CNS … the percentages make them look very different, but I think the basic structure of them is identical—neither team expects to have to honour the contract, and both players know they won’t be playing them out. You nailed the essence of them, I think, calling them sham contracts. Both flaunt the loophole of the CBA and are ludicrous. I’m glad we have Hossa, but I would hardly have been surprised or outraged if the NHL had negated it when it was signed.
www.mjt.org
Good analogy
That’s what I meant further up by the difference between a “shot across the bow” and “an audacious kick in the nuts.” I like yours much better.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 21, 2010 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Excellent way to put it
Plus if they let this one go, the next one would have been in the grabbing of the crotch “I got your cap right here” area. They had to make a stand somewhere.
after i read the year by year pay
that contract was a joke and bettman had to reject it.
by Coz_Bulls_Fan on Jul 21, 2010 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions
it's chiblackhawks that has Uncle Gary's number
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
I just read that again with a Scottish accent.
I agree – not too “gangsta”. :)
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
You guys are missing the worst part of all this
BLou was right……..that’ll put a full tank of gas in the prognostication machine
Ditto for CNS
A silent Bob
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 21, 2010 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, I thought we were singing Anatevka from Fiddler on the Roof
by northernsails on Jul 21, 2010 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
In that case...
Someone should have set a match to this place years ago.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 21, 2010 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
this response about the article cracked me up
I sure hope some enemy does not send a drone with a mirror on it…
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
Side by side comparison of Kovy vs Hossa contract
Year———-Kovy——————Hossa
Yr 1——$6 million————$7.9 million
Yr 2——$6 million————$7.9 million
Yr 3——$11.5 million——-$7.9 million
Yr 4——$11.5 million——-$7.9 million
Yr 5——$11.5 million——-$7.9 million
Yr 6——-$11.5 million——-$7.9 million
Yr 7——-$11.5 million——-$7.9 million
Yr 8——-$10.5 million——-$4 million
Yr 9——-$8.5 million———-$1 million
Yr 10——$6.5 million———-$1 million
Yr 11——$3.5 million———-$750,000
Yr 12——$750,000————-$750,000
Yr 13——$550,000
Yr 14——$550,000
Yr 15——$550,000
Yr 16——$550,000
Yr 17——$550,000
I think if the last 5-6 yrs of the Kovy contract weren’t there, it goes through. We also need to keep in mind the age of the player when the contract was signed. Hossa was 30, Kovy is 27. The other thing I get from looking at it is it looks like NJ took a 12 year contract and made it 17 to get the better cap hit, whereas we (Chicago) took a 7 yr contract and made it 12 for the same reason. They are very similiar, and given Bettman’s history of looking at past decisions, I’m almost surprised he didn’t just let this go through.
Upon further review
there’s a good chance that years 13-17 actually fall below the league minimum by that time. I suspect that may have played a pretty big role in the decision to burn this.
Our Cup.
Kovy vs Keith
Year———-Kovy——————Keith
Yr 1——$6 million————$8 million
Yr 2——$6 million————$8 million
Yr 3——$11.5 million——-$8 million
Yr 4——$11.5 million——-$7.65 million
Yr 5——$11.5 million——-$7.6 million
Yr 6——-$11.5 million——-$7.5 million
Yr 7——-$11.5 million——-$6 million
Yr 8——-$10.5 million——-$5 million
Yr 9——-$8.5 million———-$4.5 million
Yr 10——$6.5 million———-$3.5 million
Yr 11——$3.5 million———-$2.65 million
Yr 12——$750,000————-$2.1 million
Yr 13——$550,000——————-$1.5 million
Yr 14——$550,000
Yr 15——$550,000
Yr 16——$550,000
Yr 17——$550,000
After comparing the Kovy vs Hossa, I decided to compare apples to oranges as well. Hawks probably could have tried this to get the cap hit on Keith down, considering Keith turns 40 about 2 weeks after the contract expires.
A little satire about quotes from the GM's.
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
I'm a nightowl
I like to work from around 10pm to 9am.
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
Don't get that one
Do they think Atlanta raped us on that one? Seems more like Bowman had pictures of Dudley instead!
It sounds more like
he’s relying on the Blackhawks for his entire team.
by northernsails on Jul 22, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Well in a glass half full kinda world
I can see why Atlanta would be optimistic about the players they got.
I really really really
hope Buff finds his way, learns to put the effort in every game, and become a big star. I really do. It would be a shame to let all that talent waste away except against Reboundo Long-deal.
by northernsails on Jul 22, 2010 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions
discount on cap hit
What is the difference in the discount on the cap hit between a 13 yr deal and the 17 yr deal? No one is expecting Kovy to even play the last 4 or 5 years on this deal. The league will probably approve this if it were a a 13 yr deal with the last two years at 2 and 1.5, which would be the same total paid to Kovy. Plus do they actually think 17 years from now the minimum wage is going to stay at 500k? If it had been raise above 550k, then what happens?
For the Kovy deal
If you average the entire thing, the cap hit is 6m for the duration.
If you take out year 12+ (all the years that seem pretty dubious), the cap hit goes up to 8.95m.
Pretty big difference
OT - pics of Ladd with the Cup
These are awesome:
http://tweetphoto.com/34015146
http://tweetphoto.com/34015425
http://tweetphoto.com/34015337
by Katherine215 on Jul 21, 2010 9:47 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Very cool
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 21, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
me, too. :(
I love that he had it on for this though. He could’ve just worn a regular shirt but he didn’t. Aww. /wipes away a tear. or 10.
by Katherine215 on Jul 21, 2010 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
2nd photo
Cue Rocky music……
Oh wait, we just killed Rocky. :)
Clarification Please
What are the after arbitration rules? So say Niemi gets 4.5M and the Hawks say buh bye. What are his options? Does he HAVE to sign for 4.5M? What if no team offers him that? Can he re-sign with the Hawks at a lower level? What if he signs with another team for less and the Hawks say, “We would have paid THAT?”.
if I recall correctly...
if the Hawks let him walk, he becomes a UFA. He is then open to whatever the market wants to pay for him- BUT if he ends up willing to resign with another team at a salary lower than the arbitrator’s decision, the Hawks have the right to sign him at that lowered price instead.
I'm sure that other team would sign him for a $1 more than the Hawks could afford!
On another note, there is no cap for the expanded playoff roster, right?
So the Hawks should use their 10% bonus cap space, sign Niemi for whatever, bury NIEMI AND HUET BOTH in the minors, just make the playoffs, and then bring them both up.
Sound like a plan?? Call me genius.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 22, 2010 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks! That helps.
So as an UFA, he can also come back to the Hawks for any price they agree upon? Here’s the scenario. Is this legal?
Niemi wants to see what the arbitrator says. Let’s say it comes in at 3.2M. Hawks say adios. Niemi looks for an offer and SJ says…OK, we can’t afford 3.2 but we’ll give you 2.5 because the Hawks can only afford 2.1. Niemi doesn’t sign the offer sheet, but goes back to the Hawks and agrees to a 2.1 deal if he can have the cup 3 days instead of 1. Bowman gives a finger from each hand to the treacherous twat.
Usually after the bitter fight of arbitration,
a player won’t go back to his old team, no matter what the money. The big downside of arbitration is that everyone’s dirty laundry gets hung out in the worst way, and often it leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the participants.
I really hope we keep Nemo, but if he goes UFA afterwards, I won’t count too heavily on getting him back. Ever.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Jul 22, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
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