Price Tag Set: $2.75 Million For Niemi
News just came out - Niemi is going to cost the Hawks 2.75 Million if he is to stick around next year. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this means the Arbitrator sided with the Finn.
Even with the recent salary dumps - this price is probably too steep for the Hawks, given their financial woes and all. Especially if you believe there are other options for around $1.5 Million.
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Both sides lose
Thats way below what he wanted and still too much for the Hawks. Fuck.
19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks
This is an aspect of the salary cap that I don’t like: It’s so hard for teams to build dynasties. Granted, this is also a reprocussion of some bad contracts like Huet and Campbell. It sucks to see a team fresh off winning the Cup (potentially) losing another key part of the playoff run.
by Mario's Mullet on Aug 1, 2010 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions
The Hard Cap sucks if you're a big revenue team
But consider that the Blackhawks ‘big marketness’ is allowing them to eat Huey’s disaster of a deal entirely off the cap, while Campbell’s deal is merely bad. Assuming Soup is an elite D-man, he’s overpaid $2m at most.. (Maybe $3m if you regard him as a level below Keith.)
Again, it’s the $4.16m bonus penalty that is the monkey in the wrench this offseason. Having that money available would have allowed you to pay Niemi the $3m instead of $2.25 (tops) Bowman could afford.. and would have allowed you to keep Ladd at $2.75m instead of one of the minimum salary forwards from Rockford.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 1, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Niemi’s agent asked for $3M, the Hawks offered $2M. $2.75M is hardly “way below what he wanted”.
tremendously tremendous
by Crease Monkey on Jul 31, 2010 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Word is
Turco has already agreed to 1yr/1.5m if Hawks walk away from Niemi.
See you on the flip side, Nemo
Thanks for the solid play last year. When you are playing in Edmonton next year be sure to thank your agent.
by DunstontoSandbergtoGrace on Jul 31, 2010 12:18 PM CDT reply actions
Well, it's after noon - time to start drinking
I will miss the kid – and he’s probably screwed wherever he goes. Nice job, Zito!
This whole thing is such a trainwreck. Assuming he’s gone, who can take him on that can afford that hit?
Where would he fit in?
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
Adios My Finnish Friend
At least i get to hear Foley Come up with a new line for Turco… Any one have any ideas?
What about TURCO THE TERMINATOR SAYS FUCK OFF!!!!
Turcos tuuuurrrrrns away another feeble attempt by Paul Kariya
Afroman likes tall cans.
by OMFS88 on Jul 31, 2010 1:11 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
*sigh*
And yet another goalie crush of mine departs the Hawks after just a lone season. Shall I change my screen name to “niemi31”?
Hey, I wonder if Turco’s gonna sport the C-3P0 pads again?
"Kane is skating as if his mullet is on fire." - 6/9/10, 10:06PM CST
UGH... Glitter pads
If the rumors are true, I guess he is the best option…
And I really wanted to get a Niemi jersey… and a cool screen name like Niemi31
I guess I’ll go with a fictional character.
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
nah...gld isn't one of our colors
like it was for the stars. if anything, they’ll be metallic red glitter pads. or pads that resemble Dorothy’s ruby slippers, but in hockey pad form.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Aug 1, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll have a drink to Nemo this afternoon
but it’s pretty much what I expected to happen.
Jesse Rogers is still pretending we’re going to pay Niemi that much.
by WhatWouldBurishDo on Jul 31, 2010 12:37 PM CDT reply actions
Sassone is saying the same thing. "Good news"
by Hi, I'm Bob LeDonne on Jul 31, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I just think it's dreaming.
Paying this much to a goalie, even one who won the cup, who has only paid half a season when the team has cap issues is a terrible idea.
You just have to look at the math that even Rogers is putting forward to make it happen. You lose flexibility in filling the remaining spots and the possibility for injury on an unknown quantity.
by WhatWouldBurishDo on Jul 31, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Like him or not, Sassone probably has pretty good front office sources.
It looks like the Hawks can make $2.75 million work. I say “do it.”
by Don'tToewsMe on Jul 31, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
This doesn't break the Hawks' bank.
According to capgeek, if you have Toivonen as the backup the Hawks can still put together a good 21 man roster (John Scott as your healthy scratch). And if you stick Stalberg in Rockford for the year, you can bring up two forwards in his place.
I agree with you
I don’t think $2.75 is a definite walk-away number. $1.5 for Turco gives us a lot more flexibility, but if Stan really wants Nemo he can afford him now.
Especially when the guy you can play half as much ...
Has twenty-five times the experience as the other guy. It’s a no-brainer if the Turco offer is legit.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 31, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Turco also has 25X the experience choking in the playoffs ...
$2.75 million for Niemi was a little more than I would have wanted, but it is not a deal-breaker. Jesse Rogers may be a tool, but Sassone usually knows what he is talking about. I trust his sources, and he has already said the Hawks can make it work at $2.75 million.
Turn the 3rd and 4th lines over to the Skilles and Bropheys of the world, and pay your Stanley Cup -winning goaltender $2.75. The math works.
by Don'tToewsMe on Jul 31, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
What?
In Turco’s last two playoff appearances he had better stats than Nemo. The two appearances prior to that support the terribleness, but don’t we go for recent results?
I don’t understand the fixation some people have with Turco’s playoff performances – unless you watched every single game he played, how can you affirm that he’s a perennial playoff choker? Take a look at this teams back then, were they even close to what the Hawks have now?
In my opinion his playoff stats and performances from 3-5 years ago mean little. Different times, different teams and hell, perhaps even a different player? Who knows.
How would Turco look behind Keith, Seabs, Campbell, Hammer?
Turco is betting (1.5 million) on it?
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
I think we're going to find out.
Despite Rogers and others that seem to think the Hawks are pumped about this, I can’t see them turning down an extra million or so to fill out depth.
Agreed
Just throwing the options out there. In my fantasy world of beer and strippers, Stalberg gets top 6 minutes and you hope that John Scott gives you the flexibility you need should someone go down with the flu, injury, etc.
Please, no.
Toivenen is not qualified to be an NHL backup yet, and may never be. Stalberg needs to stay in Chicago to provide size and speed. And while Antti is obviously the the golden boy in Chicago right now, Turco or Theodore simply make more sense. Time to give up the ghost, dude.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Jul 31, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Please god,
No. No gutting of the team to keep niemi around at too-high a price. If the turco offer is real, get turco for that number, and come into the season with a full, albeit inexperienced, roster. If the turco offer is real and we pay niemi 2.75, we’re making our own bed when injury problems roll around.
Niemi isnt Hasek.
Lets just hope and pray he isn’t the next Dominic Hasek.
BTW I watched Game 4 of the 1992 Cup Finals the other day on NHL Network. Hasek looked hilarious in his extremely thin pads and black helmet. Another hilarious item in that game was Chris Chelios hitting Larry Murphy at every opportunity he got and then beating the hell out of him before the game ended out of frustration.
19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks
How about we trade Niemi
to Atlanta and get Ladd back. We’d still save $400K and have enough for Turco @ $1.5million.
I know, just dreaming.
This is actually a good point ...
If the Hawks refuse to pay Niemi $2.75 million and opt for Turco at $1.5 million, it will mean that they needlessly traded away Andrew Ladd. Salary cap crunch or not, now that we know all the numbers, there is no excuse for losing BOTH Ladd and Niemi. As it turns out, the Hawks could have kept one of them.
by Don'tToewsMe on Jul 31, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually I was just doing some CapGeek
and this scenario would only allow a 20 man roster.
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m)
Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Andrew Ladd ($2.350m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)
Jack Skille ($0.600m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / Bryan Bickell ($0.541m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brian Campbell ($7.142m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
Jordan Hendry ($0.625m) / Shawn Lalonde ($0.773m)
GOALTENDERS
Marty Turco ($1.500m) /Hannu Toivonen ($0.550m)
CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $4,157,753
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,529,090; BONUSES: $285,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $155,910
a 20 man roster and still only 200 k cap space?
I can’t see the hawks doing that, they need at least 21, or a chuck of cap space that could allow for 21.
Ditto for CNS
The gopher connection.
How much does Leddy’s pal in pads at Minnesota want? The Hawks could probably win a few 8-6 affairs.
by Jedediah Lawler on Jul 31, 2010 1:01 PM CDT reply actions
gotta keep him
Someone said they offered him a 3 year 8 million dollar deal so that’s like 2.6 and change per year so now Chicago can’t afford the difference on a one year deal?
Take him for the year and let him prove he can carry the load over a full season and prove he wasn’t a flash in the pan then attempt to sign him long term.
by golfbard on Jul 31, 2010 1:08 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
In what way
do we “gotta” keep him?
want to, sure, I mean, I love the guy’s personality and demeanor. But “need/got/must” keep him? hardly.
at that price
And for one year, you gotta keep him. Yes he had a nice playoff run playing behind a great team. Let’s see him as a full seasopn #1 goalie. In other words if he stinks he walks. Its a risk because if he’s good he can ask for more money but I think you worry about next year, next year and take the one year deal at that price especially if that offer of 3 for 8 mil that he rejected is true.
by golfbard on Jul 31, 2010 1:14 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
And we hope a 21 man roster works for us?
I’m not seeing it. You really want our 3rd pairing to involve Scott?
truthfully
I haven’t seen enough of Scott to know what he can do on D but I know he’s big, tough and versatile so if your front four play over 20 minutes each then Hendry steps up to play maybe 10-13 minutes then why not? Hawks were spoiled last year with how deep they were. Those days are over.
by golfbard on Jul 31, 2010 1:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
sorry
But that sounds a lot more like “really want to keep him”.
I saw nothing last season which said niemi is going to be un-replaceable in net. I think he’s good and will get better, but he isn’t a superstar. I want to keep him, everyone here wants to keep him, but I think to say we “need” to keep him is so laughably erroneous it’s insane.
You just don’t play goaltenders who haven’t even had a full season of experience 2.75m$ – especially not when marty turco is rumored to be waiting in the wings for 1.5
I’d say thats a fair look at the situation – Niemi at 2.75 is A LOT of money for someone who didn’t start and finish a season as a number one goalie.
I guess I'm missing something
when did Marty Turco become Patrick Roy?
You’re right that you don’t pay goalies who haven’t had a full season of experience 2.75 million but he’s a rare case – a Stanley Cup winner who had 27 wins in limited action of which 7 were shutouts? For one year and that money, it’s worth it.
I saw Turco last year and at times didn’t look that good. Granted he had an awful team in front of him but I also saw him let up a lot of bad goals.
I understand the cap implications but there’s also no guarantee vets will come here at a low price even if it’s a chance to win.
by golfbard on Jul 31, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Niemi
Didn’t look good at times last year either. If it wasn’t for our D clearing rebounds, those juicy rebounds end up in the top half of the net, which niemi leaves wide open.
Yes, niemi won the cup, but he didn’t win us the cup. He didn’t win a single game for us in the final with his stellar play – in fact the last game I think he really won was against san jose.
He isn’t that special, we just like him.
did u see the end of game 2 in the finals?
Or how he made big saves when it counted? Not saying he’s unreplaceable but at that price for one year ill take my chances over turco who everyone is clammoring for because of how cheap he’d come.
by golfbard on Jul 31, 2010 1:55 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Rebound control
can be taught and worked on in the offseason with a goaltending coach. Niemi’s athleticism and quick reflexes cannot.
That being said…I dont know if I’d be willing to accept this much money in a contract, knowing it would hamper the rest of the team’s depth. Playing with only the minimum is like playing with a loaded gun.
by northernsails on Aug 1, 2010 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Turco because Roy ...
when he agreed to play for one fourth the money of Huet and one half the money of Neimi on a team with their backs pressed again the cap wall. I don’t think anybody is too crazy about the Turco experiment, but there are not that many options here.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 31, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
With Turco
you actually have an idea of what you are getting. What if Niemi comes out next year with his 2.75 deal and just totally stinks the place up with no real back-up ready to step in, what happens then? Give me Turco at 1.5 and the team has a year to straighten out the goalie situation long term.
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
right
and what reason do you have to believe Niemi will stink up the joint? None, that what. And what if Niemi does the expected, like get better with experience, get coached on how to control rebounds and becomes a top 3 goalie in the next 10 years for lets say San Jose. Then it’d be REALLY smart to have 35 year old Turdco for 1 year and then try and find a decent goalie for less than 2.75M. And yeah your right, you have a great idea of what you’re getting in Turco….an aging goalie who has to drop his price because the whole league knows he’s losing his skills.
I think $2.25m was about as high as Bowman could go without making a move
So if we’re going to have the debate, let’s debate between (a) taking on Turco – or (b) keeping Niemi, and trading off (likely) Kopecky and fill in with another minimum salary forward.
It’s a perfectly legitimate argument, mind you. But if you work with the CapGeek calculator.. it’s just not possible to fit the current roster and a 2.75m goaltender. (And anyone ‘solving’ the problem by using a 20-man roster is kidding themselves. 22 is do-able. You need to leave a million for an extra forward and an extra D-man.)
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Jul 31, 2010 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Playing around with CapGeek.
With the assumptions that you don’t want to trade anyone else, and need to carry 22 on the roster. Even taking Toivonen over Crawford, and using cheaper $550,000 rookies over some of the $700-800,000 options. $2.25 was about all I could plug in for Niemi and make a 22-man roster work without trading anyone.
(Your assumptions about necessary roster size may vary.)
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 1, 2010 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
There was an article somewhere
where they made $3mil of Cap room to sign Niemi, but it was filling up basically every roster spot outside of the core with $0.5mil scrubs/rookies, with no Stalberg and no 7th D-man or 13th forward.
Sounds about right
and if you’re working under my assumption that you can’t actually go through a season with no one available to scratch from the lineup, the extra forward and D-man cost you about a million – and Niemi’s $3m drops to $2m.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 1, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I hate to mention this
but there is precedent that such an event could unfold. Last year was actually a surprise for anyone who’s seen Niemi, including the farm system. He used to look very uncomfortable even then. There’s always the chance he regresses to that point.
by northernsails on Aug 1, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Think about Steve Mason
He played in 61 games in his rookie season (more than Niemi has so far), played great & won the Calder. This season, he kind of sucked. I think in his case, it was just a slump & he can/will recover, but there’s always the chance he won’t. Remember, Andrew Raycroft has also won the Calder, ffs.
When it comes to ‘keeping, consistency is much appreciated. We don’t know if Niemi has that yet.
Enough with
the man crush. Niemi may get better, then again he may not. Honestly, you speak of him like he is Roy or Hasek which he is not and probably never will be given his age. 25 – 30 years of age are usually when a goalie is in his prime, and given the fact that Niemi is 27 and nowhere near as good as Roy or Hasek I seriously doubt he is going to be as good as you think he is, especially for the next 10 years like you said.
I would love to keep Niemi because I do think that he will become a solid, not great netminder, but I am not willing to keep him to the detriment of the entire organization which is exactlt what happens if he gets his 2.75
So the options seem to be, sign Niemi for 2.75 which will not allow us to start the season with a full roster, unless someone else gets traded, and even then there will still be no money for injuries when they occur (not if they occur), or we sign Turco or Theodore for a smalle cap hit, nobody else gets shipped off, and we still have a little cap space for injuries when they happen. It’s a no brainer! Again, I would love to keep Niemi, but not at what it will cost this club.
As far as Turco “dropping his asking price because the whole league knows he is losing his skills” there comes a point when an athlete has whatever money he will need for the rest of their lives, after that point it becomes about championships. As you may recall Turco turned down bigger offers during the first week of free agency, and the man always seems to have a starting job. Those things do not happen to players who can’t perform. Besides, we’re not signing Turco to a multi year deal, it’s a one shot thing and maybe next season we get a goalie to sign a long term deal.
I am still confused how you have such a stellar understanding of Niemi’s skill set from the small amount of games he has played in. If you are gonna flaunt his record, the same can be done for Theodore who if I;m not mistaken was 30 7 7 behind a Caps team that has literally no defence to speak of. I highly doubt Niemi comes out of Washington smelling that rosy playing behind that defence, but you’re right Turco & Theodore are losing their skills.
Niemi played well throughout the season, and other than the SJS series played mediocre for the playoffs, but I do think he will improve, and as I stated earlier I would love to keep him but he will have to improve on another team because as of right now there are just too many unknowns and not enough experience to know what your paying for to warrant that kind of salary.
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
by Tuke on Aug 1, 2010 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Heres a look
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)
Marian Hossa ($5.275m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m)
Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Bryan Bickell ($0.541m)
Jack Skille ($0.600m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / Robert Klinkhammer ($0.500m)
/ Jeff Taffe ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brian Campbell ($7.142m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
Jordan Hendry ($0.625m) / Ivan Vishnevskiy ($0.821m)
/ John Scott ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
Marty Turco ($1.500m) /Corey Crawford ($0.800m)
CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $4,157,753
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,039,924; BONUSES: $65,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $425,076
This is, obviously, assuming that the 1.5m$/1yr deal with turco is genuine. We have a little bit of room, and have a 22 man roster with a basically entirely new bottom 6, save dave bolland. Crawford backs up Turco in net. We actually have enough cap space to bring up beach, because his contract has 300~odd thousand in bonuses, which means we can fit him in the lineup if we want.
Thanks for this
If the Turco thing is legit, then I actually feel ok about this.
by WhatWouldBurishDo on Jul 31, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Not to mention
it doesn’t have Lalonde on the 3rd D pairing. I hit my head off the wall every time I see that…
that, and Makarov
and Beach up as forwards. I am having a very difficult time seeing them here this coming season. I have a nice bruise on my forehead from seeing all those names.
I want Lalonde to have top pairing minutes (and more than 8 games!) in the AHL this season.
If the Hawks can get Turco at 1.5 million
then they should do it. I’d rather not see the Hawks try to fit Niemi’s salary in at the expense by filling in the rest of the roster with sub par players.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
I think
we’ll have to do that anyway, as long as you grant that “sup-par” is someone equal with “inexperienced” (would that mean niemi is sub-par?). The difference is we can field a 22 or 23 man roster (with squeezing) if we don’t take niemi at 2.75. Taking niemi at 2.75 is basically saying either A) we’re going to trade someone else, or B) we’re doing this with 20 people on the roster. I don’t like either option, and if we trade kopecky/brouwer/sharp/bolland for niemi, I’ll pitch a fit every time i see him in net next season.
I totally agree
And I love Niemi, and hate (don’t particularly care for) Turco. (well, actually hate is too strong of a word) Math is math, numbers don’t lie. And life sucks sometimes.
Could we put a “no glitter” clause in his contract?
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
Is that with or without glitter pads?
Kidding of course. – I’m trying to adjust to this, but it’s so painful…
Visions of Hasek and Belfour succeeding elsewhere… aieeee!
If you look at what’s available, glitter boy is our best bet – and a hell of a stick handler. I’ll give him that.
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
Still think they should have traded
Kopecky and kept Ladd. Signed Turco (if $1.5 Million is legit) and let Niemi go bye-bye.
Would love to still have Ladd
Most of the Hawks trades seemed to be well orchestrated/thought-out, but the Ladd deal looked like a rush job.
It seems like they had hoped to get something done until the agents mouth opened…
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
by Byfuglie33 on Jul 31, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The irony of all of this ...
… is that if the Hawks let Niemi go and pay Turco $1.5 million, then they COULD have kept Ladd. (That is among the many reasons I expect the Hawks to bite the bullet and pay Niemi $2.75 million for one year.)
by Don'tToewsMe on Jul 31, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
The 3 year, $8 million deal (rejected by Niemi) is apparently accurate ...
… or, at the very least, I’ve read it in about 5 different places over the last few days. This means that the Hawks offered to pay Niemi roughly $2.6 million per year for 3 years, and Zito / Niemi turned it down.
I take 5 things freom this:
1. Zito screwed his client. Instead of taking $2.6 million for 3 years, Niemi will now get $2.75 for one year. That’s the risk you take when you roll the dice and lose, as Zito / Niemi clearly dids today.
2. Regardless of what any of us think the Hawks can afford, most inportantly, Stan Bowman thinks the Hawks can affords to pay Niemi $2.6 million and still fit under the salary cap. I have a hard time believing that the additional $150,000 Niemi was awarded will kill the deal.
3. Thus, it would seem to follow that the Hawks certainly CAN afford to pay Niemi $2.75 million and still fit under the cap. Indeed, they essentially offered as much in the 3-year, $8 million deal Niemi foolishly rejected.
4. Today’s ruling was a huge win for the Hawks … and probably a bit unexpected.
5. Given all of this, I find it hard to believe that the Hawks will do anything other than accept the award and pay Niemi $2.75 million for one year.
At least until he becomes an UFA after 2010-11, it appears safe to buy that #31 Niemi Hawks jersey.
do we know
when this offer was made? If it was prior to Hammertime’s offer sheet, that changes a whole lot about Stan’s thinking.
If you are ok with having your Niemi jersey for a year
If they keep him it’s a risk because if he flops then they’ll let him walk. Gonna be another tough offseason next year with Seabrook and Brouwer as free agents and another tight cap situation. Here’s hoping it goes up again. Hard to say if the bonuses will be there or not… if a Hawk wins the Conn Smythe, I assume that will be factored in.. ditto for top 10 in scoring (Kane) or is that a one shot deal?
Bonuses like that come up on entry level deals, which Kane and Toews will no longer have.
So unless one of the rookies turns out to be a closet superstar, the big-name stars for the team are now on contracts that shouldn’t be bonus-heavy.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Jul 31, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
They can't be bonus heavy
you can only give bonuses in contracts in one of three situations.
“Performance bonuses will only be permissible for the following types of players: (1) players on entry-level contracts; (2) players signing one-year contracts after returning from long-term injuries (players with 400 or more games who spent 100 or more days on injured reserve in the last year of their most recent contract); and senior veteran players who sign a one-year contract after the age of 35.”
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by Section 312 on Aug 1, 2010 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions
That is the problem.
What if he flops and folds under the pressure of a full season between the pipes? If the Hawks sign the long term deal we would be stuck with another Huet situation albeit one without as big of a cap number, but let’s face it when your between the cap and a hardplace, any number belonging to a player that doesn’t pan out is a killer (especially a goalie).
However, with “Glitter T”, you more or less already know what you’re going to get in net night in and night out. It may not be great, it may not be what everyone wants at this time, but it will be dependable. Has he had rough games and playoffs? Certainly, but goalies don’t find starting jobs year after year unless they can deliver on a consistent basis.
Would I prefer to have Niemi? Absolutely! But not by paying an amount of money that is going to hamstring this hockey club for the entire year if someone, or multiple someones go down with injuries. If “Glitter T” is willing to play for 1.5 a year, thank Niemi for his assistance in winning a Stanley Cup, and wish him well wherever he ends up. Turco’s deal will not only give the Hawks a solid netminder, but a small surplus of cap space should it be needed somewhere down the road. Add to that the best defensive pair skating today, and there could be a repeat!
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
by Tuke on Jul 31, 2010 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
word
I like the notion that there’s stability with signing Turco, we know what we’re getting without any ugly surprises (for the most part).
Every netminder
is gonna’ have bad games and let in cheap goals (Niemi included), but there where some nights when it looked like the Niemi that played 2 days earlier was on vacation. Then again, 2 nights after that he sometimes looked like the second coming of “Roasek” (Roy & Hasek) nd stoped everything. Regardless, I would rather have an idea of what kind of performance I can expect from my goalie every game.
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
Trade Niemi
and sign “Glitter T”. Not only does this give you stability in net, but it allows your rookiesa little more margin for error without the roof caving in. It alsogives the team extra cap room in case of injury, or if things are going good and you need someone else at the trade deadline, you can make a move. I just don’t see signing Nemo at that price a good move given his experience. Sure he has a lot of potential, but all that is is a nice way of saying “he could be really good someday”. On the other hand, last year might have been the best he is ever going to play. Is it worth placing that much hopefulness on 30 something games?
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
Is there any way to put a 2.75 mil goalie under our cap?
I’m not as good at capgeek or nhlnumbers as some of you are, but I just don’t see it.
Not without throwing a few more sailors off the boat.
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
possibly with a 21 man roster
and being right under the cap leaving no room in case of injury. But Really, not without getting rid of someone else.
by WhatWouldBurishDo on Jul 31, 2010 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
21-man roster ...
… and inserting cheap young guys like Brophey and Klinkhammer for more expensive young guys like Beach and Stalberg.
Even without another move, it can work with Niemi at $2.75 million. With another move (Kopecky?), it’s a guarantee.
The math absolutely works. Everything I’m hearing over the last hour is that the Hawks are thrilled (and surprised) by the ruling.
by Don'tToewsMe on Jul 31, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Enough of the man crush on this guy
Yes, he has the POTENTIAL to be a good goaltender…some day. And that’s all it is at this point – potential, and nothing else (remember how old he is). And for those remembering Hasek, most of the fans and the organization knew he was going to be great, and soon. But they already had a great goaltender in the Eagle, so they had to make a choice in the end between the two. No comparison between that situation and this one.
Potential???
Apparently you didn’t watch the season or the Stanley Cup playoffs. That wasn’t POTENTIAL in the net and it wasn’t 35 year old Turco either. It was a bona fide, 27 year old NHL goalie winning the Stanley Cup and showing speed, agility and reflexes you don’t see from many others.Unless you’re a long time Cub fan, there is not one supportable reason to believe he’s going to get worse instead of better with experience and coaching just because he gets a raise. Given higher salaries that some other goaltenders are/were getting around the league this is a bargain and the ONLY reason anyone is thinking of not paying that much is the cap, nothing to do with effort, teamwork, potential, skill etc. If we had 4 MIL extra under the cap, we’d all be jumping for joy at 2.75 MIL. Not only do we quickly sign him for the 2.75, I believe we will take the option to make that number stick for 2 years. Worst case scenario we lose a 3rd line center and add depth to get a top 10 goalie (yeah yeah….let’s discuss THAT after the season) . Easy, easy choice. Order those Niemi jerseys while they are still cheap!
Let me get this straight
You’re advocating getting rid of Dave Bolland to sign Niemi? Let’s discuss THAT right now.
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Jul 31, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I vote NO
On getting rid of Bolland, not on discussing it. Bolland is my pick for a breakout year this next season.
The Chicago Blackhawks -- 2010 Stanley Cup Champions!!!!!!
"I can't stop crying and laughing." Preacher
agree
I was really worried during the Nashville series… (as in, is his career over?) but then, he became “the rat”.
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
If it comes to that, yup.
First off I’ll say looks like we can keep them both and that would be my preference. Then this year our risk is injuries and call ups not performing well. But in general I think people are way too “Niemi has potential, but who knows if he’ll turn out to be another Huet”. There is zero reason to think Niemi will be worse. Lot’s of reasons to me to be thinking a rookie goalie will only get better. I think Niemi will move closer to the Roy or Brodeur direction than he will to the Huet one. And a better Niemi is a top 10 for sure, maybe even top 5 overall goalie. For 1.25 Million more a good to outstanding young goalie vs. an aging losing his skills Turco is a no brainer. Turco degrades the goalie situation, not improves it . Now I know almost everyone here thinks a 3rd line center is more important than a star goalie, but I disagree with that . You think Bolland has the skills to make up for the degradation in the 3rd and fourth lines, the 3rd D pairing and an aging Turco? I think not degrading the goalie position gives the Hawks a much better chance to overcome the loss of all those players than keeping Bolland does. Plus by losing Bolland, you free up some cap space to take care a little more of the depth on the team. Like I said, hope we keep em both and sweat out the leftovers this year. But if it comes to it, yeah…bye bye Bolland.
My problem with this argument is
I feel like you’re overvaluing Niemi’s projected output, which is based solely on your own opinion of his potential. Yes, he shows the ability to be who you think he is, but it’s still just your opinion. And until you show me your time machine/crystal ball that accurately predicts the future, your opinion isn’t more valid than someone else who’s afraid of Niemi struggling under the workload of a #1.
On the other hand, Turco is a known entity. He may not be the greatest goalie in the league, but we know what he can do and the biggest risk we take with him is how well is he going to play behind our 3rd pairing & 4th line. I don’t know if you can fairly call him a degradation of the goalie situation, since Niemi isn’t really a known entity comparable.
by ahnfire on Aug 1, 2010 2:32 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I agree with everything you said
but I still think Turco is a downgrade at goalie and getting worse, not better. Niemi could have been a long term solution. Turco is not. And while it’s certainly possible Niemi will now flounder and Turco will discover the fountain of youth, I personally don’t see any reason I’d bet on either of those scenarios. But yeah, I know it’s only my opinion, but someone asked me to clarify and I did….kinda sorta like blogging.
Niemi over Bolland?
As much of a Nemo fan as I am, that is pure insanity. Sacrificing one of your top PK forwards? I agree with Preach – having a healthy Bolland for a full season should be interesting.
Don’t get me wrong – I love Nemo as much as anybody, but not at the expense of Bolland. Not a chance.
Beer. Now there's a temporary solution.
potential (n.): the inherent capacity for coming into being
So yes, until Niemi actually plays a full season as #1 and shows that he can take that workload & continue improving, what he has is a great resume & past experience showing he has the potential to be the #1 netminder we want him to be.
If we had 4 MIL extra under the cap, we’d all be jumping for joy at 2.75 MIL.
But we don’t. And Turco is (allegedly) willing to come here at a super cap-friendly hit, allowing us to 1) not make any more moves and 2) actually have a small cushion for the inevitable injuries.
by ahnfire on Aug 1, 2010 2:21 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
As much as I like Niemi
This is exactly what I was thinking. Damn the NHL and the bonus carryover penalty. The hard cap environment sucks.
I see it's "no criminal record" night at the ballpark -- billyok before a game against the A's
I have witnessed the 2005 World Series championship, Mark Buehrle's perfect game, and the 2010 Chicago Blackhawks Stanley Cup championship in my lifetime.
by chisoxfan1473 on Aug 1, 2010 2:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Can they offer him a
3 yr / $6 million deal? ~~win for both. Less cap hit. Security against a bombaroo.
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
Opps.......
should read thread first, then post.
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
Really the question still stands.
Can they now negotiate / sign a multi-year deal without the arbiter’s award as a guideline, ie. 3 years / $7 million?
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
im pretty sure
its cut and dry with what the arbitrator awarded them. It HAS to be a 1 year 2.75 mil contract and then next year Niemi becomes a UFA. The hawks only have three options that they can use here, accept the deal, let him walk, or trade the deal…. two of those options work out good for Niemi (hawks keep him or trade him) He gets paid either way… i just dont think there is a market for him in free agency especially based on what they were asking, and he would end up signing somewhere else for less money than what he was awarded in arbitration.
Drink it up!
In Stanley we trust! 34,38,61, and finally 2010!!!
How could you say that he could be traded, and say there is no market for him as a free agent?
Every club knows that its cheeper to get Nemi for free than to trade pics or a player.
No club will trade for Nemi if you also sign Turco
CHI cant afford Turco and Nemi (cant even really afford Nemi)
everyone knows this, and you will have to let him go for free.
I think you will have to keep Nemi.
If you get Turco (who isnt that good) the old guy cant play every game. Who is going to start the other 1/3rd of the season?
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 31, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Your going to need to keep Nemi
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 31, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I do believe
Hawks have a 2 year option at their choice now.
So let’s suppose Niemi thought he was woth 3.5, 3.6 MIL and now realizes that isn’t going to happen. And let’s say he and the HAwks agree under the table to a 5 year deal…let’s say 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 3.5, 4.0. Can they let him become a free agent and sign him to something like that?
The Hawks had to chose between a one year or a two year ruling Before the arbitration started.
Now its accept the one year deal or let him go
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 31, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions
"HAwks agree under the table"............... and Niemi blows out his ACL or just blows.
What then?
Not sure those under the table things really happen?
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
If they sign Niemi then you're looking at something like this
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)
Marian Hossa ($5.275m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m)
Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Bryan Bickell ($0.541m)
Jack Skille ($0.600m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / Igor Makarov ($0.552m)
/ Jeff Taffe ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brian Campbell ($7.142m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
Jordan Hendry ($0.625m) / Shawn Lalonde ($0.773m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($2.750m) /Hannu Toivonen ($0.550m)
CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $4,157,753
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,531,590; BONUSES: $285,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $153,410
I would rather have Turco @ $1.5million
Switch Jeff Taffe for John Scott (same salary) ...
… and you’ve got it.
There could be some small changes around the margins (Brophey or Klinkhammer instead of Makarov … Vish instead of LaLonde) but the idea is the same.
If nothing else, this exercise proves the Hawks can make Niemi’s $2.75 million salary work.
I’d be more than happy with this lineup.
by Don'tToewsMe on Jul 31, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
This is why you need a good farm system
Next season will hopefully prove the worth of our prospects – ready or not, here they come. I’m actually psyched about seeing some of these guys and how they’ll pan out – makes for a interesting off – season, obviously.
Still need a vet on the 3rd pair D
Brendan Witt, NYI, was put on unconditional waivers when they traded for Wiz.
There’s your new Brent Sopel and someone to satisfy the Jay KcKee glee-club. Unless he hangs up the skates, he’ll be paid by 2 teams next year. I wouldn’t be surprised if he signs cheap just to be in a great city and play for a contender…like McKee did in Pitt.
So figure $700k-ish for a penalty-killing vet in Witt and $600k-ish for a #7 (Hendry? Boyton?)
I fully expect Bowman to fleece another team w/Niemi. His stock is high and the cap hit is very reasonable for many teams in the Eastern Conf or some idiot GM in the West that’ll give the moon & kitchen sink for a young cup-winning goalie who is ‘cheap’.
You mean DW?
He’s anything but an idiot, but they seem to be quite high on Nemo these days.
I was thinking LA
Rumor has it that they’re not fond of Quick or J.Johnson & w/the Kovalchuk affair, I’m not convinced they’re the best at negotiating.
They’re looking for another star – what about Niemo?
They can give up 1/2 their roster and it still wouldn’t be as bad as Gagne for Walker and a 4th rounder.
they may not see quick as the goalie of the future, but that’s because they have jonathan bernier. with ersberg as the backup they will look for qick to start strong and then look to move him and hand the reigns to bernier.
by modnar on Jul 31, 2010 3:28 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Holy shit, I did it.
_CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)
Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Jack Skille ($0.600m)
Bryan Bickell ($0.541m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / Hugh Jessiman ($0.500m)
/ Jeff Taffe ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brian Campbell ($7.142m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
Jordan Hendry ($0.600m) / Shawn Lalonde ($0.773m)
John Scott ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($2.750m) /Corey Crawford ($0.800m)
CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $4,157,753
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,596,590; BONUSES: $285,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $88,410_
I added Jessiman in on the 4th line for some extra muscle. It’s risky but it makes some sense, and Taffe is the older guy and 13th forward. Hendry would have to take a paycut and Lalonde would be brought up to head up the 3rd d-line, with Scott being the bruiser when needed.
Essentially, this shows that it can be done.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Jul 31, 2010 2:52 PM CDT reply actions
Wait...
something screwed up here.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Jul 31, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Dear, Stan Bowman
If it is financially sound for The Chicago Blackhawks to sign Antti Niemi to a modest yet deserving 2.75MM WITHOUT parting with anymore STANLEY CUP CHAMPION roster members than pretty please, with sugar on top, SIGN THE GUY!
Not to belabor the point, but Niemi has done so much good for us that it would just seem rather insulting not to reward the man who very well was the 1B choice for the Conn Smythe Trophy after Toews. Niemi was a solid 1st pick for me, even with his play in the Finals not being as stellar as say during the Nashville series or against San Jose.
And speaking of 1Bs, let Crawford gather some 1B time with the big boys, [’lord knows hes been stewing in Rockford long enough, as with Skille] and settle in for what I see to be a very interesting Training Camp in a few months. The jockeying for position within the bottom six of our lineup will be a sight to see.
Color me Hopeful, I guess.
Sincerely,
LETS GO HAWKS!!!!!
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
I'd easily put Buff, Sharp and Kane
in front of Niemi as well.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
Yup, 1B for Conne Smythe.
In my opinion, at least. Toews’ performance can’t be denied, he was amazing. His play in the Playoffs was a microcosm of what his value is in the long view: Clutch.
Niemi was a close close second after Toews, for me, and i agree with you about Keith. He was a rock and has some Huevos Grande to garner an assist after getting 7 teeth chipped out.
Additionally, Buff Sharp and Kane were also money in the playoffs, but going in Neimi had the most to prove out of everybody and he went out did exactly that, in spades.
He upped the anti (see what i did there? get it? … this thing on?) for his Conn Smythe nomination after notching 2 shutouts against a very, league-wide, underestimated Nashville squad and stonewalling San Jose when the Hawks’ superb D-men allowed 40+ Shots Against TWICE in that series (closest sweep I’ve ever seen).
This is strictly my opinion, im sure you all have your own reasons for picking Keith or Sopel or whomever for your Conn Smythe favorite.
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
Agreed Niemi 1B
Not sure with all those heroics by all the other worthy candidates, we win the cup without Niemi playing as well as he did. I bet Toews is somewhat wishing they gave it to Niemi or someone else so we could use the extra 1M+ for cap space this year too.
Cry, cry if it makes you feel better
Set it all down in a tear-stained letter
Beer. Now there's a temporary solution.
Buh-bye
Maybe with the extra money they can convince Madden to play at a discount.
The sun never sets on a badass
I've had this thought for a while now
Seeing that he has kids and has only played for one other franchise in his career, I could see Mad Dog taking a pay cut to stay here. His wife might insist on a clause in his contract that keeps him at least 100 feet away from Kaner when they’re not playing.
Might Madden accept something like 3 year, $3-4mil contract to end his career in Chicago?
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Jul 31, 2010 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I just keep thinking that's possible
I mean, at his age, with his kids in school here, with how much he seemed to enjoy playing here….
The sun never sets on a badass
And what a nice guy
He’ll give you the shirt off his back…
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
A Canucks fan's perspective
For those of you concerned that Turco’s a choke artist, as a Canuck fan let me tell you I am strongly hoping you take on Niemi’s 2.75 rather then grab Marty for 1.5. the one time we faced the stars post-lockout (06-07), Turco put up the following numbers in the series:
3 shutouts, 0.950 save %, 1.30 GAA. We actually won the series onLy because the Stars couldn’t score.
You are without a doubt the best team we’ve played in the playoffs in the last 5 years, but Turco’s was the beat goaltending performance in that span hands down.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 3:20 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Yeah, if I was a Canuck fan
I’d try to convince the Hawks to get a stop gap at best 35 year old goalie than sign Niemi too.
If Pulford would have done that
he might be doing more than playing Canasta with Johnnssan.
anything to take away the sting that our Rookie beat their vaunted Celebri-goalie, right?
sorry, couldn’t resist.
but seriously “NO NO TURCO”! Keeping Niemi needs to happen. Niemi’s youth on top of his rookie performance is upside enough over Turco in my opinion.
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
Ha, in that case you must think Niemi’s better than Miller, since Luongo beat him in a that gold medal game.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 6:21 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No, not at all. [WARNING: long rambling ahead]
What you said is just, well. Thats just really silly.
If Ryan Miller doesn’t play at his personal best, even at all, then Buffalo is not a contender for The Playoffs, IMO. He deservedly won the Vezina Trophy and could very well had earned the League MVP until the final few weeks of the Regular Season. For a few weeks in February Ryan also took some time out to help backstop an upstart USA club in your backyard, if I remember correctly (love playing hockey in Vancouver!) a team not much thought were “legit” contenders much like behemoths Canada or Russia whom all thought of as finalists for the Gold Medal.
What really happened was the upstart USA club backed by a consistent presence in net by Ryan Miller wound up playing the Voltron-esqu Canada squad, fighting tooth & nail to the wire and more but lost out in OT but Canada’s win was in no way the result of the play by the vaunted Bob Loungo. Come to think about it, a certain Chicago Blackhawk Captain wound up winning the nod as Olympic MVP for the Tournament along with his Gold Medal. Hmmm …
At least you can say Bob is a gracious competitor who apparently is a hobbyist in Tarot and Fortune Telling when it became known during the handshakes after Canada’s nail bitting win, Mr. Lou kindly grabbed Patrick Kane by the hand and said, “I’ll see you in The Playoffs.”. I’m not sure what happened after that, but i can guess Bobby went out and bought the whole team steak dinners (totally because hes a nice guy and definitely not as as a ‘thank you for not forcing me to have to carry this team in order to win’ sort of thing.
Seeing it yet? No? Ok, Buffalo doesn’t have the 09-10 Scoring Leader on their team. Buffalo doesn’t have a skater whose play makes one wonder if the secondary assist should just be re-named “The Henrik Sedin” but only during the regular season, of course, based on Dave Bolland turning the much feared Sedin Bros into ghosts for most if not all of the Second Round.
My point is that my team’s no-name goalie in his rookie year beat out the pillar of goalie excellence that is “Sobby” Louongo and that that any Beantown Canuck should be able to see why a Cunuck’s fan giving advice on Goal tending regarding The Chicago Blackhawks is either delusional or simply a glutton for punishment. Are you sure you’re not a Cubs fan? (BTW,anyone see Gonzalez for Col hit for the cycle with a lead-off home run in the bottom of the 9? ugh. At least the Sox are in the driver’s seat, but i’d rather talk hockey)
Seriously though, after thinking about it for a minute, keeping Niemi has its own problems. Seeing as one last roster cut might have to be made, and even if it only may be Mr. Kopecky who leaves, as most people are number crucnh-guestimating does it then mean the Hawks really want to have to shop with Niemi again after next season when he’ll be a UFA? What does that do for players like Seabs and Brouwer who will no doubt be deserving of raises next year? If anything, isn’t right now the highest Niemi’s trade value may be with a not so harsh cap hit for a team slightly in better cap shwpe then the Hawks?
It’ll be an interesting 48 hrs of deliberation. Time for a beer.
LETS GO HAWKS!!!!!
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
Ha. I was just poking fun of your point suggesting that it somehow means something about Luongo that your rookie beat our “Celebri-goalie”. If you make a silly comment like that, that’s the type of response you’re going to get! Unless you really think you won that series because your goalie was better than ours? In which case you either have a much lower opinion of your team outside of the goal crease than I do, or a much higher opinion of my team. I didn’t mean it seriously at all. Of course I don’t think the gold medal game is any indication that Lu is better than Miller. Just like I don’t think Niemi is better than Lu. Sorry to get you all riled up.
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 1, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
You are correct, Sir
Luongo got way too much crap regarding his performance vs. the Hawks, while too many of his teammates got left off the hook. And that nickname of “Reboundo” – cute, but is anyone seriously claiming that Nemo wasn’t coughing up pucks left and right during most of the playoffs?
I'm pretty sure that
it was the Vancouver series that I heard someone call him Antii Claus because he was giving rebounds out like it was Christmas.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
lu wasn't good
and I’m grateful for his lack of leadership throughout the Hawks/Canucks series.
As for Niemi, he’s a rebound machine who definitely relies on the D to bail him out. It’s painfully obvious just by rewatching the San Jose series vs. the Leino/Hartnell/Briere line in the SCF (deeper team).
If it wasn’t by a terrible misses by Carter and Richards in game 6, we’d have definitely seen a game 7.
That wasn't a "terrible miss" by Carter
That was everyone’s 2nd-favourite Cap whipping-boy, Campbell, getting his stick in the right place just as Carter shot. He doesn’t do that, Carter’s shot goes high, Niemi goes low, Game 7.
well, everyone's pretty much written Huet off
to the minors/Europe so he doesn’t come up in the cap-whippping boy comments as much. That’s the only reason I thought Soupy over Huey.
Pretty sure Huet is the favorite Cap whipping-boy.
Or that’s what I assumed Germ was referring to.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 1, 2010 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought that there were
a lot of misses throughout the entire playoffs. Some of it was bad marksmanship but a majority of the missed shots were due to the pressure of the defense.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
not in game 6.
two wide-open shots. Junked on.
sorry, i was in a very weird pace writing that
i know you were poking fun, its alright. sorry for the deep cuts, im just now back to where i was what with having to potentially loose another member of my Stanley Cup Winning squad so i became a but hot headed. sorry fot flying of the handle there.
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
One year?
What happens to the cap for 2011-12? We get some added room from the bonuses, but we’d be right back where we were right now.
WAIT FOR THE WHISTLE!
by Sec 326 Bureau Chief on Jul 31, 2010 3:37 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I think Niemi is staying. Although Stalberg is here to play in the NHL and frankly is Toivinen ready to play 20 or so games? No.
----2010 MOTHERFUCKIN' STANLEY CUP CHAMPS, CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS!----
Rose-Boozer-Noah
Tommy T is a defensive wiz!
We have a HORSE named Horsa.
Just lock up Seabs now!
From reading other teams’ sites, Miemi would be good trade bait at the arbitrated price. Washington and SJ the most likely candidates.
As a Canuck fan, I am OK with Turco as a Hawk. It would add even more to an already deep rivalry.
He is still a good goalie, but his last two years have convinced me its not all the team in front of him. Someone above said he let in more bad goals than usual last year…I noticed that too. ;-)
That high water mark for Marty ( those stats versus us in the 1st round versus Dallas ) was with a very good defensive team too…Tippet wasn’t it? The style the Hawks play might not be as locked down as a Tippett team.
Personally, I would think 2.75 is perfect for you guys to keep him, but the Visa might be a little too close to the limit for that.
And all wishful thinking aside, Turco at 1.5 is an awesome deal…especially if you can get something good by dealing Niemi.
If Turco is so good, why isn’t anyone lining up to grab him? Sure there isn’t high demand for goaltending and there’s tight cap spending all around but still. If he’s a true upgrade then why no lineup at his asking price? And if Turkey was so good then why has his value dropped to $1.5 million? There’s a reason for that.
That being said, hell yes, sign him up Chicago!
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions
"why isn’t anyone lining up to grab him?"
Do we know that no one is? According to “reports” offers have been made or at least discussed—offers with more money involved—but he nixed them for a shot at being on a Cup contender.
Just sayin’.
The Chicago Blackhawks -- 2010 Stanley Cup Champions!!!!!!
"I can't stop crying and laughing." Preacher
Huh. OK. Well I don’t think he should be playing from a position of power. I don’t think he’s that good anymore. Just my personal opinion
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
How about this...
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)
Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Jack Skille ($0.600m)
Bryan Bickell ($0.541m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / Igor Makarov ($0.552m)
/ Hugh Jessiman ($0.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brian Campbell ($7.142m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
Jordan Hendry ($0.625m) / Ivan Vishnevskiy ($0.821m)
John Scott ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
Marty Turco ($1.500m) /Corey Crawford ($0.800m)
CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $4,157,753
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,042,424; BONUSES: $65,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $422,576
Again, assuming Turco will sign for $1.5 Mil. Jessiman would be the enforcing 13th forward with the potential to move up. Makarov and Vishnevskiy would shore it up, but obviously Taffe and Klinkhammer could be used as well (I just like the thought of having two Russian ruffians more). There’s flexibility here to sign a more seasoned 3rd/4th liner or throw more money at Turco (or Theodore).
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Jul 31, 2010 4:04 PM CDT reply actions
Is there any other team whose every move this summer has been to subtract from the team?
Man, I’m getting tired of this! Every dealing with other teams has been to subtract from our team. We haven’t added anyone or gained anything in all the trades except cap space. I know it’s necessary but it’s getting sad to watch. I’d love it if they can figure out a way to keep Nemo. But even that takes away from our team doesn’t it? Because then we can’t call up better players if we need them. Is there no end to this?
The Chicago Blackhawks -- 2010 Stanley Cup Champions!!!!!!
"I can't stop crying and laughing." Preacher
And why is everything in italics? Or is it just me?
The Chicago Blackhawks -- 2010 Stanley Cup Champions!!!!!!
"I can't stop crying and laughing." Preacher
It looks like everything is in Bold
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 31, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, false accusation
If you refresh, it only happens after Friedrich’s look at next year’s (potential) lines.
Ahhh…I see.
Back to goalies…how good is Crawford?
And…more importantly, you guys should know this, reading the Chi-town media and all…
How willing is an owner that just came out and said he lost money to stick 11.2 mil of money in the AHL for the next two seasons?
IIRC
The only reason Niemi got the backup job at the start of last season is that he was cheaper. They were both much of a muchness, neither was really that good. Of course, this season it will basically be sink or swim for Crawford: he could still surprise us, either with terribleness or awesomeness (hey, stranger things have happened). He’ll probably be so-so, but as someone else said, Marty Turco could potentially be a great mentor for him. We’ll find out, I suppose.
As for the second one, well… you’d have to ask someone else. I think he knows what he has to do & knows he can’t really get round it.
If Rocky hadn't signed off on eating the Huet deal..
The whole capocalypse would have been spiced with figuring out do you also trade Kane, or trade Hossa, or trade Sharp plus letting Hjalmarsson take his talents to San Jose.
It’s been settled fact that the organization was moving forward without Huet’s deal on our cap, whatever that took. And that had to be a consideration going back to when Bowman signed Toews, Kane and Keith to long-term deals, not just something where he woke up the night after winning the cup and said “Oh, shit! Our cap is fucked!”
And looking at the alternatives above, it’s something you have to give an owner lots of respect for. Even if it would have been a PR disaster around here to break up the core any more than was done. (So far, the Rocky Wirtz era has been free of PR disasters.)
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Jul 31, 2010 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't believe everything you read in the newspaper
They might have lost some money on paper, but don’t forget the tremendous increase in team value since the $ Bill days. I’ll lose 1 or 2 million a year if my net worth goes up 150 mil. Plus don’t think the Hawks winning didn’t have a positive PR affect on the Wirtz corps other assets. That is worth a lot of $$$s that don’t show up on the Hawks bottom line. Plus they had to upgrade so many things (facilities, TV/radio deals, bars, restaurants, etc) that are one time expenses. And with the higher ticket prices this year, I doubt Rocky is in the fetal position sucking his thumb wondering how to pay Huet 11.2Mil not to play.
From my observations
It seems to be something to do with using bold; perhaps using it too much in a comment or possibly ending a comment while still using bold. I’m not sure, though, ‘cause it’s only happened about 3 times that I know of.
a glitch in the Matrix
It happens on other SN blogs from time to time
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 31, 2010 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
This is BULL
How am I supposed to empthasize the important words of my incoherent, off topic ramblings?
Afroman likes tall cans.
by OMFS88 on Jul 31, 2010 5:24 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Keep reposting them over and over
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 31, 2010 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Time for a drink.
Just an NHL goalie is what we need.
Brodeur aside, what superstar highly paid goalie is leading his team to the cup?
Fleury? (yes)
Khabby?
Luongo?,
Nabby?
Price?,
Halak?,
Quick?
Huet?
Whoever it is for The Hawks, It’ll be fine. Turco for 1.5 is a great deal.
Holy Crap!
If you like 35 year old goalies losing thier skills, sure.
Not to mention giving away a good young goalie to your competition. And what happens year 2, 3 and 4 with Turco?
Why do you assume the Hawks are going to ink him to a mulit - year contract?
Seriously, what the hell are you smoking here? One year contract – only. Or perhaps you think Stan has suddenly contracted a case of the stupids? Start separating your emotions from the Hawk’s businesslike perspective, which they must have regarding this situation.
Niemi played for one year part time.
Turco is a fine replacement for that and Crawford is a fine back up/may be NHL goalie.
Holy Crap!
PLEASE NOTE
It could be worse. Like, for example, the Cubbies. Lilly, Theriot & Cash to the Dodgers for a 2B and prospects. I mean — WOW.
WAIT FOR THE WHISTLE!
by Sec 326 Bureau Chief on Jul 31, 2010 5:33 PM CDT reply actions
Unless you're a Dodger fan..
Basically the Cubs got a Theriot replacement who will be younger and $2-3 million cheaper next year, plus two middling, yet legitimate pitching prospects.
The Dodgers have an outside shot at the playoffs, so they get about 10 Lilly starts – but their ownership/payroll situation means it’s almost certain Lilly will be a free agent in November.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Jul 31, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
And it's possible he
will come back to Chicago depending on what happens with Lee and the Cubs payroll next year.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Aug 1, 2010 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions
so, what's the verdict..
Time to put up a new (if short-lived)FanPoll.. Niemi Yes Or No.. I think probably no.. just because losing another Cup-Winning D-Man (or anyone) would be worse than changing a goalie who played behind a great line..or rather a great bunch of lines.. it was the ‘Strength in Depth’ that helped win the Cup..
Either buyout, trade or send Campbell to Rockford along with Huet
and everybody gets their wish.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
I suck at figuring all this out
If Niemi can be brought back without moving anybody else and we can bring up cheapos from Rockford to fill out 21/22, that’s what I’d like to see. If anybody else needs to be sacrificed, though, I vote Nemo. Even 2.5 or 2.6 sounds so much better to try to work around.
Regardless of where he ends up, I do hope nothing but the best for him.
I don't want to see Niemi go, but
Niemi’s trade value must be pretty high right now especially with that fairly inexpensive price tag. 2.75MM is pretty decent for a cup winning goalie even if he only played 39 games before the playoffs.
I hate thinking this way since i don’t want to see another STANLEY CUP WINNER leave the roster, yet someone mentioned maybe signing Madden back at a discount with the money we’ll be saving with Turco, and it makes me wonder what teams out there are in a market for a Cup winning starting goaltender for less than 3MM and what we might be able to gain/fleece from a trade. Hmm …
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
Why would anyone trade something for Nemi if they know they can get him for free?
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 31, 2010 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Nothing is for free
If you trade for Niemi – you own him. If he enters the UFA market and 2 teams start a bidding war or he makes clear he doesn’t want to play in your city (Edmonton) you lose. Someone will trade something for him.
Sign/trade agreement also helps the Hawks as Bowman has control over where he is sent. It could be the highest bidder, the shittiest team, or just doing something to keep him out of the Western Conf. for at least 1yr.
Niemi should be very tradeable at that price. Teams like Edm, NYI, Ottawa, and Washington need goalies…
If he goes UFA, I’m guessing there are a few teams that would offer more than $2.75 mill. And he controls where he goes 100%, so even if you offer him lots, if your city stinks, he doesn’t have to go.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Fish or cut bait
I think the Hawks cut bait – again, I do not understand some of the Nemo love, except from the bandwagoners, which was expected. Yes, he stole one game in SJ and overall played well (most times). But their cap situation negates this signing – too many other holes to fill at this point. I honestly think the organization wasn’t planning to repeat next year, but would try to make the playoffs and see what happens. Fair enough, let’s see what some of the younger guys can do, and onward!
He rocked San Jose
The whole series they essentially outchanced us and Nemo saved the day. Bandwagoners aren’t Niemi lovers. They’re Byfuglien lovers.
He’s a young goalie with a TON of potential. IMO, if you were going to pay him 2.6 mil per year, you can afford an extra 150k to keep your clutch, Stanley Cup winning goalie.
I think he was good...
but the defense was even better at clearing pucks and not allowing rebounds from getting netted home.
According to Jesse Rogers (I know ... I know ...)
The Hawks offered $1.5 million while Niemi countered with $4 million. The arbitrator just split the difference, essentially making both sides unhappy.
FWIW, Rogers has changed his tune and now thinks Niemi is gone:
It's hard to believe
that Niemi and his agent were asking for $4 million dollars especially knowing the Cap situation.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
The cap isn't used as a factor in arbitration
and there is no way a player is going to ask for less than what he thinks he is worth. He already has a cup now it’s time ti get paid and secure his long term financial security.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Aug 1, 2010 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions
from what ive read
Rogers always thought Niemi was likely a goner but said today there’s a slight chance of him staying… Not much of a difference – like party sunny vs mostly cloudy
by golfbard on Jul 31, 2010 8:28 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
his initial tweets
after the award was released made it sound like he thought they would keep NIemi. Rogers is a huge Niemi homer.
Looks like the tissue-paper Turco error ... er ... era is about to begin
This makes it seem like Niemi is gone:
http://twitter.com/NHLSourcesSay
I’m not trying to flame, but I honestly wonder when was the last time a defending Cup champion failed to make the playoffs the following season. I think it’s the Carolina Hurricane in 2006-07, but I’m too lazy to look it up. At any rate, the Hawks may end up as a similar footnote in the dustbin of hockey history.
The worst part of all this is that, as is now mathematically clear, the Hawks did not have to trade Andrew Ladd. They could have kept Ladd, signed Turco, and been $400,000 ahead in the deal. Clearly, they were going to have to lose one of them, but under NO CIRCUMSTANCE should they have lost both. Totally inexcusable.
And while we all knew this offseason would be bad, did anyone honestly think the Hawks would lose Versteeg, Byfuglien, Ladd, and Niemi? The answer is No.
Bowman botched this off-season big time.
What a load of crap
How do we know that Turco didn’t reduce his price in the last few weeks? How are we sure that Turco actually WILL sign for 1.5 million (all we know is that “sources” say so)?
Bowman botched the off-season by trading players to teams in a different conference who aren’t likely to be a Stanley Cup competitors to the Hawks? Are people going crazy or is just me?
No, people are going crazy
No perspective at all regarding the comments that claim that the Hawks suddenly screwed the pooch, the Book of Revelations is occuring, etc.
THE END IS NIGH!
Chicago Blackhawks - 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Things have changed forever, we're the Ramblin' Boys of Pleasure
by McClure on Jul 31, 2010 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
I was having similar thoughts...
Enjoying a nice vacation in Madison and the end of the world seems so far away. What’s that? Yes, another beer would be great, thanks!
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
Oh, for fuck's sake.
Step away from the cliff, the view’s better from this side of the guard rail. We still have three of the best forwards in the NHL. No other team has scoring punch like the current Hawks lineup: Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Bolland. Whatever else happens in the coming season, this is a lineup that will put points on the jumbotron.
We have a Norris-winning lead defenseman, his steady-as-a-rock partner, a top-notch puck moving powerplay quarterback, and a 23-year-old defensive phenom who will only get better as he ages. Few other teams in the league can boast that kind of defensive wall in front of their netminder.
Bowman didn’t botch the offseason; he inherited a bad situation and did what he had to do. The Ladd trade needed to happen, since no one knew what the arbitrator would do about Niemi and no one could have foreseen how goalie prices were going to plummet. Even now, after all the salary-shedding, we’re still hard against the cap. We knew we were losing people, anyone who thought otherwise was an idiot. I honestly thought it would be worse than it’s actually been.
It won’t be the same team, but it will certainly be a playoff contender. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Jul 31, 2010 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
We have a new Stacie
but not quite as sweet nor as polite.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
Haha, yeah, sweet isn’t really my best thing. I just get impatient with this sort of ‘sky is falling’ stuff. I guess I saw it once too often and exploded.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Jul 31, 2010 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I totally agree with spoke
I was going to post something like this but I wanted to read the whole thread first in case there was something I wanted to add. My whole theory is you never know how the season is going to go until it is actually being played. We still have a very good chance of being a cup contender. Let them get everyone signed / traded / demoted so we can see who we have on the roster. Q will whip them into shape. We’re going to be just fine.
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
I agree ...
… the Hawks will be a “playoff contender” (your words, not mine), which means that they will contend for a playoff spot.
Wow. Awesome.
I prefer being a Stanley Cup contender, but that’s just me.
by Don'tToewsMe on Jul 31, 2010 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Heh heh.
‘Playoff contender’ as in: contender in the playoffs.
Don’t forget, the Habs and the Sabres made the big dance this year. I don’t doubt that the Hawks will next season. On paper, which teams have more talent than this? The Caps maybe, in the East, but they don’t have a defense. The Sharks maybe, but hey, choke artists. Back to back Cups are tough, but I don’t count these guys out. Not this early, and not with this much talent. You were the one who can’t even see the team in the top 16 of the league. I like being an optimist.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Jul 31, 2010 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions
There's math this offseason.
Not our fault if someone told you there wasn’t gonna be math.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Jul 31, 2010 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Ah I see, you're one of those guys with a brand new Mikita throwback shirt.
Carry on. Nothing new here.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Aug 1, 2010 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Just sort of an FYI thing (not a big deal), but I’m a she. One of the many SCH ladies who represent our gender in a sport that often doesn’t pay attention to us.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 1, 2010 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
(looks like they were responding to the poster above you, as I was)
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 1, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
*facepalm*
Because yes, I am truly skilled at reply-fail. This one should have been a few comments up the tree. Sorry, everyone.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 1, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Are there any guys (left) on this site?
It’s starting to look like the “View”…
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
sure there are
just look at the “OMG THE SKY IS FALLING OUR TEAM WILL FALL INTO THE PITS OF DESPAIR SANS NIEMI” posts – those are the males.
by ahnfire on Aug 1, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What were StanBow's options?
He kept the young core together, fought off the attempted Jelly heist by DW, and survived (to this point) an arbitration hearing. Step off the ledge. Unless you like it up there.
Beer. Now there's a temporary solution.
hindsight's 20/20.
How on earth could anyone have predicted the offer sheet for Hjammer and Niemi being firm on his asking price? Stan had to make the moves he could make when he could make them.
Now, if it turns out he had a perfectly good crystal ball at his disposal that he chose not to use, then I’ll be pissed. Until that big reveal, this complaint is completely illogical.
Why was everyone so surprised that Hammer was made an offer?
I’m far from an expert on the cap and free agency, but I was not at all surprised that another team wanted the Hammer. The kid is going to make a great D man for a lot of years.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
I was a little surprised
Not too many offer sheets get made to players while being restricted at least that I can remember. Most wait out the process, now it seems to me his sole purpose was to fuck over the hawks in some way for feeling the shame of a sweep.
I think mostly because it's rarely used
although it may be becoming more commonplace in future off-seasons, and DW is just ahead of that curve.
i suspect this
i at least expect it to become a more common tool to poach players from cash-strapped teams, or a way for opponents to weaken such teams. Not saying it’ll become really common, but if the hard cap doesn’t budge in the next few years, more good teams will end up in the same position, making more teams vulnerable to offer sheets.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Aug 1, 2010 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions
If We Got Rid of Kopecky
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m)
Marian Hossa ($5.275m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)
Jack Skille ($0.600m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Bryan Bickell ($0.541m)
Igor Makarov ($0.552m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / Jeff Taffe ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brian Campbell ($7.142m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
Jordan Hendry ($0.625m) / Shawn Lalonde ($0.773m)
John Scott ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($2.750m) /Corey Crawford ($0.800m)
CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $4,157,753
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,094,090; BONUSES: $285,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $590,910
You think that Horsa guy will allow that??
Mrs. Horsa guy doesn’t have that kind of pull with the Rocky.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
Niemi says "Dough!"
… is it too late for that one? Too soon?
anyone know when final decision is made?
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
The Hawks are given 48 hours
to sign him or let him go to Free Agency.
I expect they’ll sign him and then end up trading him.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
boy could that one backfire
Teams would probably love to screw us on that one.
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
what do you mean by backfiring?
You mean, by not trading with us for Niemi? I doubt that would happen – if all it took was consideration of how much it’d hurt us, then Atlanta would’ve never traded with us to start with.
Someone will want Niemi. And if we sign/trade, at least we’re sure to get something for it, instead of sending Nemo out in the open market.
What if we keep him hoping to get a trade, and then no one wants him? We’re stuck with the salary we can’t afford and have to get rid of someone else that another team does want.
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
I suppose that's possible
but I don’t think Niemi isn’t an enticing trade prospect – he’s no Sharpie, but I think there’s definitely some teams out there that would be happy to have him.
I think it’s more likely we get stuck trading him to someone we don’t really want to trade him to then him than not being able to trade him at all.
big sigh
It’s all so depressing no matter how you look at it. I’m not on the ledge about the team, but damn isn’t this about over yet?
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
I've got preseason marked on my calendar
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
One question is, how many teams have not already locked in 2 goalies?
And/or can fit a 2.75 million goalie under their cap?
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
Preds looking for backup
Not that Nemo would be a backup with that kind of salary, but damn could you imagine a Rinne / Nemo tandem?
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
Interesting article about a possible trade with the Caps
In this proposed trade, the Hawks hand over Niemi for Varlamov (800k contract with 1 year remaining) and take on Turco at 1.5 mil to tutor him at a lower cap hit than Niemi’s alone. As much as I’d love to see Niemi stay, this deal would be more than fine with me if it happened.
Unfortunately, the way I imagine it going down, we’re going to ship Niemi and sign Turco and bring up Crawford.
This has possibilities...
and gets us through this year. But then we’ll go through the same thing with the goalie next year, won’t we? Varlamov is an RFA after this season, yes? (Of course, wouldn’t it be fun to have to deal with another goalie who was trying to get a raise because of his post season success with the Hawks?! (Anti-jinx mode is on.))
The Chicago Blackhawks -- 2010 Stanley Cup Champions!!!!!!
"I can't stop crying and laughing." Preacher
by Preacher000 on Jul 31, 2010 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Varlamov is RFA after 2010-11, HOWEVER!!
Varlamov’s talent/age ratio compared to Niemi is an interesting case tho.
He’s 5 years younger as of this coming August when Antti will be turning 27, is only billed at $750,000 for 2010-11, and shows the ability to play well behind an elite offensive team that happens to force him to play well (same might be said of Theodore, in this case) as The Capitals gave up a lot of Shots Against last year while winning The President’s Trophy.
The Blackhawks don’t force their goaltenders into too many Shots Against situations, in fact they lead in the statistic for large portions of the Regular Season. Having someone like Varlamov, cheep & talented with composure in high-pressure situations, bodes well for the Hawks long term.
Its begining to look like The Brass’ hands will also be tied to other obligations along the way, what with Seabs & Brouwer after this season. As well, its starting to look and feel like another Heart-Clencher on SCH.
Someone mentioned it here somewhere but i agree with the statement that Zito really screwed the pooch on this one, unless he pulled a total Ben Kenobi and really talked Niemi into wanting @MAX a one-year deal by going to aribitration (unless the Hawks were only offering a one year deal, im not too sure, forgive me). Im sure Anti wants to stay, at least thats what we all were told/romantically wish to be true. But this is just Business.
Hockey, the NHL in particular, is Entertainment and all Entertainment is Business.
I was hoping by now this would be over but instead im out of beer and weighing what would make me less morose: seeing my Cup Winning Rookie Goaltender gone next year or my Two-Time Cup Champion Hossa Handler gone next year (Kopecky is a good player IMO).
Drunk & listening to albums on wax. Party time USA.
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
Ya know, I have to fix my turntable - haven't listened in years...
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
I just gave one of my turntables to my 20 yr old son last week
Now he wants to go through my vinyl collection. I should just give him what he wants but for whatever reason, there are some records I want to keep.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
I have 2 tables and over a thousand LP's
I listen to a lot of them and still buy more when I find them in very decent shape. Nothing like analog, most digital sucks!
I only have around 600 albums
and like I said above, I’m down to one turntable. I don’t listen to them that much anymore but I just can’t seem to give them up.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
The thing about that is
We can probably keep Varlamov for what Niemi is making now with a longer-term deal, as opposed to having Niemi for a year at a 2.75m cap hit and having to give him a raise on top of that.
In fact, the more I think about this...
Our capocalypse may just be in “part 1” this year. We’re going to have to do some serious moving to get Seabs signed for a long-term deal after this season, aren’t we? And no matter who we get as goalie this year, it will only be for 1 year. So we’re going to deal with this all again I expect.
Perhaps Crawford is the backup this year, improves and shows that he can be number 1 next year. When does his contract end?
The Chicago Blackhawks -- 2010 Stanley Cup Champions!!!!!!
"I can't stop crying and laughing." Preacher
by Preacher000 on Jul 31, 2010 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Crawford is RFA after next season
per CapGeek, so take it as you will.
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
We have the $4+million
in bonuses coming off the books next year, and Seabs is already at $3.5 million. I will be upset if he gets more than a $5-5.5 million cap hit on a long term deal.
Varlamov isn't gonna happen.
It’s either Turco or Theodore with Crawford backing up. And at the present moment, we should expect Crawford to remain at least he backup netminder for the next few seasons. If he does well he’ll more than likely be the starter next season.
The only thing that is certain is that Stan is gonna have a keen eye on goalies next June.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Aug 1, 2010 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Saw this just before I was caling it a night and thought of you guys and gals.
An interesting solution to, what do you call it …“Capopalypse Now”?
Interesting
Hadn’t seen that. Souray at $4.5m for the next two years vs. Soup at $7.1m for the next millenium.
Beer. Now there's a temporary solution.
Wow
That deal would be great if it happened. I mean sure, we’d lose a bit of talent on the defensive end but not having ourselves shackled with Campbell’s contract would be great. Somehow I doubt the Oilers are one of the teams Campbell’s willing to go to though, but maybe I’m wrong. Stan already “has the list” as Soups said so maybe the Oilers ARE on there.
I just don’t see it; if they are overspending, shouldn’t the player that they overspending on be able to play?
i don't see it either...
not to mention this should have been the very first move of the offseason. It could have meant keeping Niemi and Steeger. Or…losing Niemi but keeping Ladd and Steeger.
Souray's actual cap hit is $5.4m (see below), so trading Soup for him saves you $1.7m on the cap
Niemi at $2.75m instead of Turco at $1.5m? You’ve got it.
Ladd at $2.35m instead of a $600,000 rookie forward? You can do that too, but not both.
Versteeg at $3.1m instead of a $600,000 rookie? Sorry, maybe if you trade Kopecky too.
In short, you could do this and save enough cap space to have kept Niemi or Ladd. It’s not the magic wand that makes the capocalypse go away.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 1, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
One advantage would be
that Souray has two years left on his contract. If things don’t work out, he can be bought out for a $2.4 million cap hit for the first half and 1.5 million for the 2nd half.
One thing I’m not clear on though, does anybody know if a Cap hit changes when a player is traded?
Souray is a Cap hit for 5.4 million for Edmonton but there is only 9 million to be paid over the next two years which would average out to4.5 million.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
We're listening seriously to an anonymous tweeter
That is following Shawn Michaels and Kevin Nash?
Broadly, it’s a potential solution to fitting in Niemi’s arb award – but the dude really should provide a link if there’s actually something brewing.
Meanwhile, let’s get an opinion from the Edmonton Journal (4/15):
Defenceman Sheldon Souray asked Steve Tambellini to be traded as far back as last spring, so his demand now for a change of address — while a loud, public one — didn’t come as a surprise to the general manager.
The question is whether Tambellini can move Souray.
While Souray has some very good tools — a booming shot, the ability to play the point on the power play and a penchant for playing the game in ill-humour — he has also missed 101 of 246 games as an Oiler with back and hand surgery, along with a nasty concussion. He is still hooked up to an IV drip, running antibiotics into the infection in his hand.
He’s also a $5.4-million salary cap hit to another team, although his salary for the next two years is $4.5 million.
Concussion? Man, we just buried Kim Johnsson a few months ago.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 1, 2010 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd vote no on this one.
Campbell, for all his huge contract, is an asset to the team. We didn’t turn this thing around in the playoffs until he came back, and why? Because he’s a powerplay specialist who’s made it his stock-in-trade to play the transition game faster and more reliably than pretty much anyone else. Campbell powers our break-out offensive game. He and Kane especially have a synergy that can’t be replicated by many. I severely lack confidence that Souray would do the same thing (though I do think that current ‘Nucks fans undervalue Souray; the man is a quality defenseman). Ergo, I think that if I were GM I’d be keeping Soupy, even with his massive contract, over the option of trading for Souray. We know that Soupy comes through for us when we need it. There isn’t a PP-QB in the league of which you can say the same.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 1, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
As a Canuck fan, I have never undervalued Souray.
He would be pretty effective to your PP as well…you have NEVER had a guy that can bring it like him…one of the hardest shots in the league.
Trust me, we know he is good.
Campbell might be better, but only slightly…the 2 mil in savings might just be too much to ignore.
It is one bad contract for the other, but it might be good for Soupy too.
He would be the #1 guy in Oiler colours…
You could be right, actually.
I might have been generalizing when I said ‘current Nucks fans undervalue Souray’. What I meant was ‘Nucks Misconduct undervalues Souray’. Given that NM is what I read for a lot of my Nucks news, and given that NM doesn’t seem to like Souray much (they’ve had a couple threads previously in the year about trading him), that’s the viewpoint I tend to ascribe to Nucks fans. That could well be a mistake, and if so, my apologies.
That said, “the #1 guy in Oilers colours” is not exactly a strong recommendation. I mean, it’s the Oilers. Really.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 1, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Its all good. I should qualify it too. Ihink he is good at what he does, but is overpaid too. I would put me in the NM camp on Sheldon, but qualify it with I don’t think he is as bad as some of my brethren.
aeroplane nailed it. He can score, and that shot is a bitch on the PP ( hint…get the f#%k out of the way and let the guy with pads for that kind of dangerous duty handle it. )
But my mom had a better plus minus last year, and he can be a bit of an arrogant plick…though that is more with the media…supposedly very popular with teammates.
What I meant though, in a deal of two overpaid guys…you get the advantage of the shorter contract…and still get a player that, when playing his best, approaches his contract value.
Apparently Rocky is a Soup fan
From today’s Sun Times -
‘’You saw the first three games against Nashville [when Campbell was injured] and the next three [when Campbell returned],’’ said Hawks owner Rocky Wirtz, who is footing the bill for Campbell’s eight-year, $56.8 million contract. ‘’I said to myself, ’Any naysayer, just look at those games.’ He was a very big part of winning it. If that’s what it takes, that’s what it takes. We’re prepared to do those things.’’
It would seem Soup isn’t going anywhere.
Beer. Now there's a temporary solution.
I understand being a fan
and I like Campbell but as long as he’s on the payroll, the struggling with the Cap will continue to be an issue.
Wait until next year when the Hawks will need to sign 7 forwards, 3 defensemen and 2 goalies for around 17 million dollars. Don’t forget that one of those players is Seabrook and he’s due a nice raise over his current $3.5 million.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
Agreed
I also like Soupy but that contract will continue to be a cap nightmare. Going into next year, if the Hawks re-sign Seabs with a hefty raise (seems highly likely), their top 4 d-men will account for over a third of the total team cap. Ouch.
Beer. Now there's a temporary solution.
Awrighty then
but when you add 19,88,81,10, and 36, that leaves the Hawks with about $13m to sign 7/8 forwards, 2/3 d-men, and 2 goalies.
Repeating, now. Ouch.
Beer. Now there's a temporary solution.
A list of next year's Free Agent goalies
just so the situation is crystallised. It’s no real use talking about getting Turco as this year’s goalie unless we know what the options are to replace him (or get a backup/1B goalie to Crawford, depending on his play). I’ve deliberately neglected to include their Cap hits because, for example, Turco’s Cap hit was $5.7mil, but now he’s apparently willing to sign for $1.5mil.
Ersberg
Bryzgalov
Labarbera
Mike Smith
McElhinney
Conklin
Craig Anderson
Budaj
Roloson
Harding
Osgood
Jimmy Howard
Alex Auld
Varlamov (RFA)
Neuvirth (RFA)
Greiss (RFA)
Garon
Steve Mason (RFA)
Lalime (NOOOOOO)
Vokoun
Hedberg
Boucher
Giguere
Leclaire
Elliott (RFA)
Personally, I wouldn’t mind picking up someone like Harding, who can play pretty damn well behind a good defense but admittedly hasn’t seen much NHL time (only 83 games so far). It would be nice to see Bryzgalov or Vokoun in our sweater either, but I doubt that would happen unless we managed to move some people and Tallon/Maloney hit their head really hard on a massive pile of stupid.
Let the debate commence, I guess.
by Germware on Aug 1, 2010 4:40 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m surprised Howard is a UFA, not an RFA. If he has another good season, dude is gonna cash in.
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 1, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
interesting...
if the Hawks can survive this coming season, they probably wont need Niemi at all.
I love Niemi, so I’m qualifying that statement, but If we get a guy like Bryz…behind this D…
by northernsails on Aug 1, 2010 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
NHL 2011
Anyone know what Niemi is rated in the game? Turco? I think the decision the hawks make ultimately has to factor this in as I want the best possible chance to win when I play 10 year old punks online
Afroman likes tall cans.
by OMFS88 on Aug 1, 2010 7:29 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
That's good
But then you also have to join the official board where NHL2011 is real life and the people can’t understand why Bowman hasn’t traded Campbell and Huet yet.
What if
we do not keep Niemi or sign Turco…?
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Bryan Bickell ($0.541m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m)
Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)
Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / Marcus Kruger ($0.735m) / Jack Skille ($0.600m)
/ Jeff Taffe ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brian Campbell ($7.142m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
Ivan Vishnevskiy ($0.821m) / Jordan Hendry ($0.625m)
John Scott ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
Corey Crawford ($0.800m) /Hannu Toivonen ($0.550m)
CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $4,157,753
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000;
CAP PAYROLL: $58,324,924;
BONUSES: $65,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,140,076
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose : it's how drunk you get.
Too much for your goalies.
With our D, we should be able to get by on 2 X 500K.
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
by ballyb on Aug 1, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd.
And the award for best use of the sarcasm button goes to…
by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 1, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Must be a relative of
Joe Fuck The Ragman.
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
Should he stay or should he go?
I’d take Turco at $1.5 here, but this is just a rumor. $2 million? Hmmm.
Watching the Stars against the Hawks last year, “no defense” seemed to be a lifestyle choice for Big D.
OTOH, I can live with signing Nemo, going with a tight/scrub roster, risking injuries, and “going for it” next year. If Niemi continues to progress, this is probably the Hawks best chance to repeat. The jury’s still out on Niemi, but his mental toughness alone makes it plausible that he will become very good.
With Nemo, the Hawks would be constrained from seing Beach or getting NHL exposure to other prospects generally. This would be extremely painful to the hundreds of GMs on this site, and could mildly retard the team’s progress.
If they have some key injuries, that’s probaly a death knell, but with the loss of team depth, that risk is pretty big regardless of goalie.
If Nemo tanks, oh well, 2010-11 was always a longer shot anyway, and the Hawks aren’t any worse off a year from now.
Cap issues aside, Niemi’s earned the right for a team to take this (fairly modest) chance on him (consider what the Hawks splashed for Khabi and Huey), but the supply/demand equation in Chicago maybe don’t work. Maybe it doesn’t work league-wide, but if the Hawks can’t do a sign-and-trade somewhere or Niemi can’t get 1-year $2.75 m as an UFA, well, Niemi and Zito must be shaking their fists at the gods’ fickleness.
June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.
"his mental toughness alone makes it plausible that he will become very good."
Well put.
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
You can't
set aside the cap issues. And, correct me if i’m wrong, but weren’t toews, hossa, bolland, campbell, etc all down at some point last season with injuries?
Keeping niemi here for next season at 2.75 would be a mistake.
the point of my last paragraph
is that sometimes timing is a bitch, as Niemi and Zito are learning.
Tell me how Turco + $1 million is gonna produce a bettter outcome next year than Niemi for any given number of injuries you want to imagine. The team is a lot thinner either way.
I just don’t see it as black and white as you do. I indicated my preference (Turco at $1.5 million), but I don’t think signing Niemi would be that bad. In what way would this move put the Hawks in a worse position a year from now?
I dunno. Captain, what do you think?
“We hope that he’s still going to be on our team. We all know how good he was and what he did to help us win the Stanley Cup this year. If we want to do it again, he’s one of those guys you want here.”
June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.
I agree ...
Turco at 1.5 mil may be worth the flexibility but anything higher than that and you may as well just go with Niemi and hope it works out with the injury situation. Obviously we’ll know in the next day, but I find it hard to believe Truco is ready to sign for that low. Maybe I don’t understand the goalie market out there.
by Billy Charlesbois on Aug 1, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a fair argument.
Not one I personally would be in favor of, but it’s well-reasoned, and does the math.
Way too many people aren’t doing the math here.
(And if the $1.5m Turco deal is in fact a rumor, I guess we’ll know when the Hawks make another trade to fit Niemi’s award onto the roster. I really don’t think Bowman is in favor of going with Crawford and Toivonen, and hope you can trade for a veteran during the season.)
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 1, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Does anyone know when the Hawks' 48 hour window is up?
(to sign Niemi)
Is it tomorrow morning?
Ditto for CNS
Yes.
Not me, but someone most definitely knows. (it’s the alcohol…)
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
If I'm remembering correctly
the Hawks have 48 hrs after the arbitrator delivers a decision to accept or reject. If they reject, then Nemo is instantly a free agent. If they accept, the team can either keep him or choose to trade him at some later point, but the risk is that we won’t find a trading partner and will be stuck with the contract.
All of this is of course unofficial and just per my memory. But right now, that’s how I at least understand things. If I’m right, then we should find out about what the team chooses to do either tomorrow or the next day. I’m not really clear on when the arbitrator officially handed down a decision, but it seems like the Hawks should fish or cut bait soon.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 1, 2010 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Right, the question is what time did the arbitrator officially deliver her decision?
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
BTW
both Chris Kuc and J. Rogers seem to think that we’ll get a decision tomorrow. So take that for what it’s worth.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 1, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
It's 48 hours according to many articles, but here is a link to one
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
I think the 7 days
is for matching an RFA offer sheet.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
BRING IT ON!
WE’RE STILL DEFENDING STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS, DAMNIT!!!!
LETS GO HAWKS!!!
…
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
Exactly
My point, if we can get something, whether its draft picks or prospects, for Niemi, I’m all up for it.
thank you for keeping things in perspective
and why the fuck is half this board in italics. Who broke it, this is why we cant have nice things
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Friedrich broke it, but no one seems to know how (something to do with bolding? maybe an open italic tag that never got closed? no one knows). So now everyone is in italics. Ah well.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 1, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
We've tried. It hasn't worked yet.
Good luck if you want to try, but sometimes the SBN boards just break, and there’s nothing that can be done. So everyone sort of grins about it and shrugs it off, because there’s nothing to be done.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 1, 2010 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed, repair is needed
I kinda feel like the RCA dog with my head tilted in order to read the thread
Beer. Now there's a temporary solution.
seriously tho
it now begs me to think whom Stan can get in return. Another goalie? Another prospect? Draft picks? Perhaps a little of all three? Hmm, well here’s to wishful thinking.
can all this get “official” already?
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
There was talk further up the thread
about a Niemi-for-Varlamov/Neuvirth swap. I wouldn’t be totally opposed to this, in theory.
re: that Price article
The author states that he wouldn’t be under as much pressure here as in Montreal, and that Nemo would be under less scrutiny in Montreal. I understand the various dynamics involved with Price and his draft position, but that seems like a big stretch to me.
The Price option doesn't make sense financially
I’m assuming that if we can sign Niemi at 2.75, then we will. There are Price holdout talks in Montreal, and I’m sure he wants at least Niemi money, and maybe even Halak money, which we obviously can’t pay.
Ditto for CNS
Price might be delaying his signing
to force Montreal to trade him. His relationship with the media and the fans have been rough at times and with Halak gone, he’ll be under a lot of pressure. If the Hawks could get him at 2.5 million, I’d be happy with the trade.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
If the Hawks pick up Varlamov
and thats a big IF, you might as well say bye bye to Cory “The Rockford” Crawford.
I wouldn’t mind seeing some of Washington’s prospects coming over here, Hersey is incredible and the recent crop of Edmonton youth is nothing to sneeze at either (Magnus Pääjärvi-Svensson, anybody?)
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
His name is awesome if only for the number of 's's and umlaut 'a's.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 1, 2010 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
i remember reading
He changed his name on his jeresey to just read Paajarvi, for simplicity’s sake
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
He's also a very tauted young player in Edmonton's system
A very tempting pick-up, if rumors of Edmonton & Washington going “hard” after Niemi are true, that is as posted on the link for NHLSourcesSay on Twitter somewhere up there.
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
The main problem is
Varly & Neuvirth are both RFAs after next season. If we have to go through this next year…
woldn't we be in the same positionn with Turco after next year?
Seriously asking here because I would like to know.
If we signed Turco’s supposed 1.5MM One-Year deal would we be looking to resign him or sign another one year deal for somebody else at the end of the season? I remember reading somewhere on here that its possible to extend Niemi’s contract within this coming season/year if we actually do sign him.
Anybody got any ideas? Thanks.
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
Well
Turco would be a UFA, whereas Varly/Neuvirth would be RFAs. That’s about the only difference.
Further up the thread, I posted a list of next year’s free agent goalies. I suggested Harding as a solution.
So, if i got this right
what you’re saying is that getting someone who would be UFA next year instead of someone who would be RFA is better for the Hawks lest they want to be back in this same situation next year since there is a GLUT of goalies becoming UFA after next season?
Is that pretty much the long’n’short of it?
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
Well..
I’ll admit that I made that somment without thinking it through. I’d forgotten Turco was gonna be a UFA as well. All I was saying is it’d be pretty much the same situation as right now. Typed before I thought, my bad.
Don't say you didn't ask for it
There once was a goalie named Antti
Whose goal work was smooth as chianti
Zito’s price was too high
So the Hawks said goodbye
They soon found that the market was scanty
Beer. Now there's a temporary solution.
Like I said before
It’d be easier if we got Varlamov than staying with Niemi because Varly’s only making 800k right now. Next year he’d need a raise, but I doubt it’d be much higher, if at all, than Niemi’s current 2.75mil arbitration award. However, going with Niemi this year means he’d be asking a raise on top of what the 2.75m he’s already making.
by Ban on Aug 1, 2010 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you quoting something in the Paajarvi Link i put up?
Defensive game i can understand, but this was quoted in the Copper & Blue article from a Jimmy Hamrin who runs Sweden’s Timrå IK blog at http://blog.st.nu/tikare/.
Among his strengths in addition to the already mentioned, is his attitude to training. He’s the one who trains the most on the team and is the number one runner. This comes across on the ice where he can play at high speed in long shifts and throughout the matches. He works hard in improving both his shot and skillset and is the kind of guy that you have to put out the lights in the arena to get off the ice.
It’s really is just a matter of time before he can step up and play in the NHL. It could be as early as next season or season after that. According to my opinion he should wait until he’s more or less sure that he takes a spot on the NHL team , as the Swedish Elite league is more stimulating for him than the AHL. But there is no doubt in my mind that he is a future top 6 player"
Its an interesting situation, and i hope Price doesn’t come over here because i doubt he’d be willing to play from the $$ of an AHL call-up and there are other prospects worth fleecing*COUGH*COUGH* acquiring from rumored Edmonton as well as Washington, IMO
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
hmm, thats wierd
interesting how he (Paajarvi) apparently needs to imporve his work ethic and yet he apparently trains the most out of everyone on his team where he’s in a league “playing with men”.
weird. either way, i like how this may be the highest Niemi’s trade value may be and Stan looks like he’s in the driver’s seat
All the best, Nemo. You were awesome. Bring us back something nice, pretty please?
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
Seems fairly likely
that the time is near to bid Nemo “näkemiin”. It will be tough to see him leave. Like him or not, you must give credit where it is due – he rose to the challenge of the highest level of pressure a goalie could face. A fond farewell to the Fearless Finn.
Or maybe he’ll stay here. Who the fuck knows.
Beer. Now there's a temporary solution.
That would be palatable
To almost any fan except the newbies – so far Stan’s winning the game from a losing hand. Got to give the front office credit so far – particularly if they pull any of those rumored deals off.
Regarding StanBow's comments today
1) Crawford "He’s spent a number of years developing in our system, and I think the time is now for him to get an opportunity to show us what he can do. "He’s a very technically sound player.
2) “There are always options in every decision. You have to weigh what it would take, what it would do to your team in terms of flexibility-wise if you decide to keep him, if maybe you have to move somebody else along, or if you have to make a decision to go in another direction.”
Coach Q: “We’ll see what happens and go forward,” Quenneville said. “We’d like to keep him, but we still have some tough decisions to make.”
I don’t see any way that Crawford and Niemi fit under the cap, so….
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
Thank God for You Tube
After the past month of all this BS, I really needed some of THIS.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
by Badgerdano on Aug 1, 2010 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, it looks like the girls are gone...
Break out the Scotch and Cigars…
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
I'm a step ahead of you.
H.Upmann already fired up on the deck as we speak.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
those are the bomb
I believe Upmann’s were Kennedy’s favorite
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I recommend
Romeo y Julieta if you can find em
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
+10
"....we have to find a way to win. And good teams do that."
Tomas Kopecky May 29, 2010
Why is that so difficult?
I may have to change my tag since it apparently causes so much confusion. Maybe I’ll change it to “2010, yay.”
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
aHEM...
are you saying girls don’t like scotch?
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Aug 1, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I dated a girl who loved scotch like I do
we had a volatile ending to that relationship
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions
you just described my love life
3 years ago.
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
yes, but with you dating history
i’m hesitant to say it was the scotch that spelled trouble.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Aug 1, 2010 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Thats not very nice
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
no it's not
i have my moments of mean-dom. sorry.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Aug 1, 2010 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Im not offended
I know full well I have terrible taste in women
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions
i was feeling charitable
knowing full well that i wouldn’t be the only one to comment on BigC’s history with women here. I so rarely get to be the “nice one” after all….
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Aug 1, 2010 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
you are the Ninja
you don’t apologize
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
I'll buy next time I see you.
And we’ll have a stogie and talk about WWII Germany.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
done
i prefer Talisker or Lagavulin, but am open to other suggestions on scotch.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Aug 1, 2010 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Too smoky
Glenfiddich (esp. their 18-year-old) or Glenmorangie.
The Glengoyne distillery is about 10 minutes from here, but I haven’t tried any yet.
Glencaddam is also pretty good for me
smooth and simple.
by northernsails on Aug 2, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
i tend to like smokier scotch
but i do like Glenmorangie quite a bit too, and i consider Glenfiddich a baseline to start from (a much better starting point for whiskey than crappy bourbon like Jim Beam).
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Aug 2, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Some of us on here drink our scotch straight and really, really dislike fruity stuff in our alcohol. Straight gin or straight whiskey for me. If I’m going to get sloshed, I’m going to do it right.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 1, 2010 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey I'll fruit a drink
but only if it potentially has a direct impact on me getting laid.
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I just watch my videos on a loop
and rock in the corner saying “its all gonna be ok, its all gonna be ok…”
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
can't sleep ...
clown will eat me …
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
trying to get a business started and building a website, hence why I have been scarce around here
its been so damn hot that the trout rivers arent fishing for shit right now, and no one here can drink worth a shit or cares about hockey, but other than that, good
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Ohio, not nearly as cool
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL OK
Last I knew you were in Columbus. Best of luck on the business!
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
thanks
I linked my site to my SB Nation profile, in a shameless effort to drive up traffic. It’s not nearly done yet, but if you are in to fly fishing it should be pretty good. The amount of material I have to write is a pain. I had it all written in a 150 page book that I’ve filled over the last 8 years, but transferring it to an electronic medium is a pain in the ass.
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
A good friend of mine a fly fisherman.
I’ll turn him onto your site.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
rad
if he’s got any suggestions I’d be all for hearing them
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
hey BigC, did ya hear?
at the convention, they played some new montage videos – and one of the ones re: the finals used the same music you did in your “History Has Been Made” video.
I think someone in the front office/media department is reading SCH…
which music?
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions
IIRC, I think it was the second song?
puppet or katherine can correct me, or anyone else that was at the convention’s opening ceremonies.
Unstoppable
the Hawks have used it before
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I also wish I had access to half the stuff they do
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions
After the puck was sprited in...
It came back out and then when Kane got the puck back in, Campbell got it, gave it to Kane, Kane with a head fake, and then KAOS…
So is anything official
I can’t believe we’re going to trade/cut/ Nemo…
Monday we should know
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah that's the 48 hr deadline
seems everyone thinks he’s good as gone eh?
I wouldnt pay him 2.75
its a steep price, I coulndt see doing it
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions
It is
I’m surprised the arbitrator favored Niemi so much, I guess his playoff appearance bought him a better contract than he deserves.
From what I read
Hawks offered 1.5, Zito (and I guess Niemi) wanted 4. 2.75 is right in the middle.
Of course, I think it was Jesse Rogers so who knows if it’s accurate.
Keep in mind...
They have to decide whether to ACCEPT the offer tomorrow… if they accept, then several days of trade drama ahead…
If they cut him loose, he’ll be lucky to get 1.5 mil
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
Isn't there some 80% rule
Something like if he someone offers him less than 80% of the ruling than the Hawks get first chance to sign him at that amount?
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
That's the way I heard it
And 80% of $2.75m would be just in the range where I calculated Niemi might fit in under our cap without any further trades.
But I’m thinking Bowman would have been talking to other GM’s, and had an idea before the convention started if and where he might strike a deal for Niemi. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to hear a sign & trade announced tomorrow.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 1, 2010 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Turco will look better behind our "D"
Than Halak will look behind Jackman and Colaiacovo
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
sparkly red goalie pads
here we come
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Aug 1, 2010 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
those need to go away immediately
FOR SALE: pair of shoes, red, size 32 1/2 wide. Please direct all bids to Joel Quenneville, Chicago Blackhawks. Clown horn sold seperately. Also for sale: 328 dogs+1 pistol (bargain price for Leafs fans!)
by BigCSouthside on Aug 1, 2010 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions
WGN TV sports -Dan Roan
proof? none – I cannot find this anywhere else.
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."
TheFourthPeriod Reports out of Chicago saying hawks have signed goalie marty turco to a 1yr, 1.75M dea
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Aug 1, 2010 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t have any confirmation yet on reported signing. WGN Radio in CHI reporting Turco signed, announcement tmrw.
TheFourthPeriod
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Aug 1, 2010 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
or the one.
happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!
by puppetmasterp on Aug 1, 2010 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Fuck,
The flyers want Nemo, according to Broad Street Hockey, every other post is about them wanting their GM to go “Find Nemo.” The flyers have also signed little Ralph Wiggum Anybody see where this nightmare is going? Makes me want to Scream like Homer
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
Fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Blackhawks!
Fan of the not 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Isles!
by burpchelischili on Aug 1, 2010 10:13 PM CDT reply actions
Me fail English?
That’s Un-possible!
by northernsails on Aug 1, 2010 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought about it,
but the fact that the flyers are paying Wiggum 1+ mil a year is even funnier to me.
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
Fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Blackhawks!
Fan of the not 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Isles!
by burpchelischili on Aug 1, 2010 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I cant remember. who are we calling wiggum?
by northernsails on Aug 2, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions
You're gonna make me type it? lol
that link above was for Matt Walker.
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
Fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Blackhawks!
Fan of the not 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Isles!
by burpchelischili on Aug 2, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
If Niemi goes,
Then this is not a decision about winning. Turco is NOT the guy we want if we are serious about winning. He plays a much more active game outside of the crease than our goalies do. It will mess with the defensive end mojo. And remember, outside of 2 and 7, the rest of the blue liners still get huge cases of clown shoes – so much so that you need an athletic goalie to bail you out when it counts – like Niemi.
I predict Niemi will be an elite goalie – one we could have signed for a reasonable price. Maybe not as dominating as Hasek became, but mark my words he will do nothing but get better, and we will regret it if we let him go. Chicago will not only have lost some depth, but we will have lost the one thing that could most make a difference in the absence of that depth.
And for those who think Turco is a good enough goalie, ask yourself why the Stars signed Lethonen – an injury prone and streaky goalie – to replace Turco. Not just the money my friends….
by Return of the Roar on Aug 1, 2010 10:37 PM CDT reply actions
I think signing Lethonen
is more about getting younger at the position and trying to take a guy with ability and see if he can benefit from a change of scenery.
Turco was never in their future plans. This team essentially got old fast which is why they’ve struggled the last few years.
When are people going to understand
that we can’t keep everyone? Players we lose ARE going to get better elsewhere. That is the nature of the game. Whether it’s Niemi, Ladd, Versteeg, they are all young enough that they will get better and in a league with a hard cap, it will happen elsewhere. We have an excellent core and you build around it. Niemi was not part of that, unfortunately.
by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Exactly!
Other teams are going through this also. Case in point, I know several Leaf fans that were very upset that Stalberg was sent to an elite team like Chicago because they know that the veteran presence here is going to make that kid blossom into a star. It is the nature of the business, and it’s gonna’ happen every year so get used to it. Welcome “Glitter T”
II Can Finally Die Happy Now!
Hmmm...
$3MM a year for him.
2005-06 – groin injury – missed 35 games
2007-08 – groin injury – missed 16 games
2009-10 – back injury – two surgeries – missed eight weeks
He may be 27, but I am thinking his body says he’s more like….35. Turco’s age.
And Niemi is not worth $2.75??
Like I said – if he leaves, the decision is not about winning.
by Return of the Roar on Aug 1, 2010 11:02 PM CDT reply actions
If the Stars wanted to dump Turco that gives me major concern. Does it not give you guys any concern?
----2010 MOTHERFUCKIN' STANLEY CUP CHAMPS, CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS!----
Rose-Boozer-Noah
Tommy T is a defensive wiz!
We have a HORSE named Horsa.
Just lock up Seabs now!
Part of that is that the Stars suck and need to rebuild
Keeping Turco doesn’t do any good. He wants to go somewhere to win and they want to let Lehtonen play.
Yup, Dallas is in a rebuilding mode – they have a great prospect coming up and they drafted another high-ranked goalie. I think they’re trying to bring some youth to the position, while at the same time reducing the salary.
Let’s not get hysterical and ask why Dallas dumped Turco. There are good reasons.
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