The Word Then
by SamFels on Jul 6, 2010 5:39 PM CDT
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Back on Feb. 27th of last year, Chris Block wrote this piece in The Indian about Bob Probert. It sums the man up excellently, as he was neither a demon nor a saint. I present it here for your enjoyment.
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spot on
eery that it came true so quickly afterwords, but a good piece essentially explaining how it was going to end, and sure enough…
I can't wait to dive into a pool and end up in a jacuzzi
RIP Probie.
While not a perfect person by any means, he provided me with endless entertainment not only in a Hawks sweater, but a Scum sweater as well.
I'm not superstitious. I'm just a little stitious.
Poor Dani and kids
I got to know Bob and Dani when our kids went to the same school here in chicago. He really put them through the wringer and knew it. He was a very humble, almost kid-like character most of the time. He loved the school haunted house party and his family always pitched in heavily. They were very sad to leave Chicagoland (if memory serves he couldn’t stay without a work visa or he got deported for violating terms of release). Anyhow, at bottom he had a good but troubled soul. His family loved him dearly and will miss him sorely, and my heartfelt condolences to them.
Incidentally, zhamnov’s kids went to the same school and I will fill in on that when I’m in more lighthearted mood.
Didn't I have a helmet when I came in here?
by Tomas (not Kopecky) on Jul 6, 2010 9:16 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I remember the story of Probert
…“schooling” former NFL great Dexter Manley while they were both in rehab together. A great fighter, who was strangley quiet on and off the ice.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
The artcile was certainly eerily prescient ...
but what’s with that dude putting his picture right in the middle of the story? It was kind of distracting to have him giving me the ultra-serious American Psycho stare while I was reading it. Somebody explain to this guy how to use a tasteful thumbnail next to the byline.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 6, 2010 10:54 PM CDT reply actions
A fond farewell
RIP Robert Probert.
Thank you guys for posting this.
I was scouring the internet for things Hawks related
And came upon THIS from Chicago Tough.
I thought I’d share in light of circumstance.
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
by Hawkynite! on Jul 7, 2010 2:08 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Lot's of things to say.
First off, thanks for the invites to join you all for an evening of drink, to watch the Hawks. I work as a bartender, so getting those nights off is a little tough.
Second..the HAWKS FUCKING WON THE STANLEY CUP, in my lifetime! I was on shift that night with a sparse crowd of out of towners..including some dickhead at the end of the bar from Detroit who was rooting for the Flyers. When Philadelphia tied it to send it to overtime..he just kept saying ..choke..choke. Well, needlessly to say when they scored that winning goal, all my past disappointments with this team that I have loved since I was six disappeared, including the 1971. 1973 and 1992 teams failures. I went abosolutely ape-shit for 3 straight days. Oh..about that Detroit fan? I offered everyone in the bar a free drink except him and said two words to him..BITE ME!
All the player dumping, I expected. I wished they had been able to keep Ladd, but I have this feeling we will see him in a Blackhawk uniform again. As much as we have lost some of favorite heroes, I have faith in our management. That’s something none of us have NEVER been able to say about this team.
Lastly, all BLACKHAWK and RED WING fans can agree on this. Bob Probert was one of the toughest son -of -a -bitches that ever played hockey. I just finished watching a few of his fights including the punch out. drag out with Tie Domi. Totally awesome stuff.
I wish his family well..he was a great guy.
IDK about this one
A father, son, & husband suddenly dies at 45 and this is what you post? Must be a slow news day.
I’m about as blunt as they come and I have to say, posting this was clearly not necessary. Look we all know he had trouble with sobriety throughout his life, trampling on his grave like this is not necessary. The guy is dead, let his problems die with him. It’s easy to sit here and hide behind a screen and take shots at someone, be a man Sam and send that article to his family, I’m sure they’ll appreciate it or show up at the funeral and pass it out there.
We’re better than this. I’m incredibly disappointed.
by chicagohockeyguy on Jul 7, 2010 7:28 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I think it's fair
this piece isn’t looking to vilify or canonize Probert, and it’s what was said about him before his death. If you can say it about someone before they die, why not after?
And it’s obviously posted for members of SCH, not the Probert family, so it should be read with that context.
by shinkicker on Jul 7, 2010 7:40 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't know where SCH ranks among bastions of Blackhawks fandom..
So it’s entirely possible the family would never get wind of this. Certainly the article was appropriate in the context of Probert getting honored with a Heritage night. But in addition to documenting his personal demons that existed before, (implied.. probably?) during, and after his tenure with the Hawks, there’s also a touch of “he didn’t live up to his contract” complaining in there. (Also appropriate in the context of Feb ’09.)
But they haven’t even had the funeral yet. It’s a good article, but I don’t think the last couple of days have been marked by a total media whitewash of Probert’s past.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Jul 7, 2010 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Extremely relevant
in the context of the thread following the news item posted re his death. I think if you read those comments, this will make more sense. It’s a balanced look, penned without the spectre of actual death looming over the writer’s shoulder, which is how an obit should be approached.
Thanks for the post, Sam.
Our Cup.
It's certainly not flattering ...
but it is hard to argue the insight of it’s content. Had the article been written in response to his death I might give it less deference, but as it stands I don’t think it’s overreaching to aruge that Probert’s lifestyle has very selfish elements to it which affected his relationship with the team brass. I personally tend to believe he must have been a pretty great guy for the organization to bend over backwards trying to help him. I also can’t imagine that the Hawks lost so much $$$ on Probert’s salary considering the volume of #24 jerseys that were in the U.C. when I used to go as a kid. Therefore, the narrative for the Probert heritage night that things were hunky dory between him and the team was fine with me.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 7, 2010 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions
A man’s death doesn’t retroactively change what he did in life. I fully stand behind not only Block’s writing of that column nearly 18 months ago, and Sam’s decision to post it now. It’s quite eerily prophetic and for the vast majority of it presents empirical evidence rather than any kind of conjecture. This is not “trampling on his grave”, this was written well before he died.
Chicago Blackhawks - 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Things have changed forever, we're the Ramblin' Boys of Pleasure
But reposted the day after he died
Hey McClure and Sam. I have no problems with this being posted, but I personally would have preferred it be part of a series of articles regarding Probert’s life and career as a Blackhawk. This is your guys’ site and you have every right to present whatever opinion you prefer, but knowing that there is a huge number of commenters who liked, loved, enjoyed, and/or saw him as a tragic figure, I’m surprised this is the only piece that was posted.
It just seems like you guys felt the need to give us a beat down after yesterday’s beat down of grandpa. And maybe rightly so, but two wrongs don’t make a right.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
This post was going to be made before the beat down occurred
As soon as the news broke, Sam and I traded text messages and he said he was going to put this up.
This blog is meant to reflect our opinions on things surrounding the Blackhawks. We’re not held to any mandate to being populist. If you want the sentimental obits that paint Probert as a big, troubled, teddy bear, you know where to find those, or there’s room in the Fan Posts. For us do put something up like that when it’s not how we really feel (and I can only speak for myself personally when I say I found Probert to be a less than sympathetic or endearing figure during his playing days), would be a disservice to both you and ourselves if we put anything not reflective of our actual opinions. I’m sorry you don’t agree with it, and again, my condolences go out to his family and friends, but you’re not going to get that sort of thing from me.
Chicago Blackhawks - 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Things have changed forever, we're the Ramblin' Boys of Pleasure
by McClure on Jul 7, 2010 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Fair enough
You’re right. I don’t expect you guys to be populists. That’s the biggest reason I love this site.
Obviously we are not going to, nor are supposed to, agree on everything.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks
Thanks for clearing it up that it’s merely your opinion and burying way down here in the comments. The place for that is in the main body of your post. You do us a disservice by putting that way down here. Just because it’s your opinion that doesn’t give you free license to basically say “this guy was a fuck up” the way you did. Maybe I’m in the minority here, but clearly the timing of posting an slamming a man’s character the way this piece did was no appropriate, that was my point and I apologize for being ambiguous. I will never disagree that the piece was prophetic, but that should have been stated at the top. It clearly did not seem as though that was the intent here though.
by chicagohockeyguy on Jul 7, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
This was not my post. This was Sam’s. I don’t know what his actual opinion on Probert is, as I stated in the comments there. If you think he should have stated that clearer, take it up with him. Since putting up the fan post about his death, even in the content of that post, I think I’ve remained consistent.
Furthermore, Sam was presenting Chris Block’s opinion from last year, and I think he gave a proper introduction to it.
Chicago Blackhawks - 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Things have changed forever, we're the Ramblin' Boys of Pleasure
Everything on here is opinion
It’s a blog.
by shinkicker on Jul 7, 2010 10:32 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh, that's just your opinion!
;) but agreed.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh no no
When I say it, it’s fact. Didn’t you get the memo?
by shinkicker on Jul 7, 2010 10:48 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
This is true
Never go to a Giants game with shinkicker unless you want to experience the truth that the Giants are the best baseball team in the world, regardless of what 36000 other people sitting in close proximity believe. It’s enough to make a man sick with fever.
You're wrong, again...
The Giants are crappy FOOTBALL team. Sheesh!
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
By calmer he means sober
and loud noises might’ve scared the guy turning into a goat next to me.
by shinkicker on Jul 7, 2010 11:07 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Do you mean the Yomiuri Giants
or that team out in San Francisco?
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
Isn't it great
when a bunch of anti-authoritarian commenters on a site run by apparent anti-authoritarians, all want to exert our authority? ;)
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Actually, I believe it does give them free license to do whatever they want, since it’s their site. Perhaps at some point we posters have forgotten that this is actually a blog, run by four people who write opinionated posts on the Blackhawks.
by meeshak on Jul 7, 2010 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Me, too
I would be very disappointed if the editors wrote anything other than their opinions. If I want something written to please the masses, I’ll read the newspaper.
by Katherine215 on Jul 7, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Hm… Beat down of grandpa? Maybe it’s time to tenure my resignation from SCH, because I have no idea what that means.
it's in the fanshot
McClure posted about Probert’s death. You can’t miss it.
by Katherine215 on Jul 7, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
How did this get greened?
Block’s article was a heartfelt piece, bemoaning the fact that the Hawks and Probert whitewashed the real story, how his life was essentially saved by Dollar Bill taking a chance.
by meeshak on Jul 7, 2010 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bingo
My take away from the article was what Dollar Bill did for the guy- pretty remarkable.
Ironic, because Wirtz himself clearly clearly qualifies for the “Hitler exemption” in terms of speaking ill of the dead around here.
I’m amazed at the maudlin reaction (especially from people whose opinions I generally respect), and throttling of anyone who suggests that this doesn’t qualify as a tragedy.
June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.
I agree about Wirtz (and the other stuff.)
I remember at the time being impressed that Dollar Bill would do that for someone. That is perhaps the most positive memory I have of DB.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
The Wirtz family was(and still is) VERY generous with the folks who work for them
Many speak ill of past Wirtz folk – and there are certainly areas to criticize (I do so very enthusiastically on some points) – but the family did take very good, way beyond the call of duty, care of a lot of the people near them.
There are countless stories of things like medical bills paid for staff families and such – not well publicized either. They have their facets where they are exceptionally good people too.
Preparing my psyche for the coming Capocalypse
Confusion will be my epitaph.
Bob Pulford
was kept on the payroll. How much more generous in the face of uselessness can you get?
Our Cup.
I have a Pulford hockey card
from when he played for the Kings. It’s probably worth at least $0.25 which is probably what I paid for the entire deck WITH the gum. So he’s got that going for him, which is nice…
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
by Badgerdano on Jul 7, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Uh oh, it was un-greened ...
this place is turning into Kruschev era Soviet Union when they started scrubbing Stalin out of movies and replacing him with the shadow of soldier.
The reason it was greened because some people think it’s poor taste to post negative things about a person after they die. I don’t think that’s such a shocking concept that it couldn’t earn a recommended designation. Believe it or not people can disagree with the author, no matter how “heartfelt”.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 7, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
It was me who greened and then un-greened it
When I first read the comment I had skimmed over it and really only read the first part. After reading chicagohocketguy’s 2nd comment (which I disagreed with) I went back and reread his first comment and noticed the part that stated “It’s easy to sit here and hide behind a screen and take shots at someone, be a man Sam” and un-rec’d it because I didn’t initially notice the personal attack.
That’s what we all do here. It’s a blog. We sit in front of a screen and post our opinions. I guess by that rational we’re all cowards.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Or white trash, according to redtribe14
Chicago Blackhawks - 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Things have changed forever, we're the Ramblin' Boys of Pleasure
please don't
forget about the Latino trash. We too deserve recognition.
It wasn't intended to
be a personal attack at Sam. I meant it more in the sense that the man dead, he can’t defend himself (not that he ever had a problem doing that while he was alive). To clarify myself further, is there anyone here that didn’t know Bob Probert was and alcoholic and a drug user? What exactly was gained from this? Nothing. It didn’t tell us anything that we already didn’t know. Sorry, that I riled everyone up, lol. I’d really like to see a comment from Sam (since McClure initially defended the post, then backed off stating “that it was Sam’s post”) as to why he felt this was necessary.
To nativeson, yes we’re all entitled to our opinions and I have no issue with that, it’s when people take shots at dead people (unless it’s Bill Wirtz). Especially, as you pointed out the article was factually flawed. That’s what really rubbed me the wrong way. If what you posted about the facts of Block’s write up are correct, then this was not the place for this.
by chicagohockeyguy on Jul 7, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
So who decides on the exceptions
to the rule that it’s wrong to “take shots at dead people”? This is what I have a problem with – it’s ok to criticize Bill Wirtz endlessly (and also within hours of his death), but Probert is off limits because some people really liked him?
I think the "some people really liked him" rule sounds about right ...
Or you could apply the “That guy is about as close to a super-villian as you can get” standard. Either way, ridiculing Bill Wirtz, dead or alive, is appropriate on the decency chart. Also, in case anybody was wondering, it says here that you can dance on his grave but you cannot defile his grave. So make sure your foxtrot or tango doesn’t cross the line.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 7, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
GDMF
after i hit post i realized i should have used “abbrev.” damn it, so close to being funny but never quite there.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
the wirtz thing
was in jest. I guess I should limit my sarcasm to only speaking to someone in person. I was living in Toronto when I found out BW died and my only response was I hope his kid does a better job than he did. I told my father (30 year season ticket holder), at least now there’s a chance you won’t be throwing your money away every season.
Personally, I never thought Probie was that great of a player.
I guess I was just taught this type of thing isn’t appropriate right after a person dies. Had it been a week or two later, I probably wouldn’t be here fussing about it.
by chicagohockeyguy on Jul 7, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok, but I was serious
with the Wirtz example. Many here criticize him posthumously who have also had a problem with the comments talking about Probert’s lesser qualities. Timing is one thing, but I would hazard a guess that critical comments were made about Wirtz the day he died.
so we also layer in a too soon? test
it actually feels like this conversation is making progress.
Semi-related- I don’t buy the “he’s dead so he can’t defend himself” argument. It’s not like the people we talk about here are even aware of our existence, living or dead.
June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.
People talk a lot of shit about me
And I’m slightly aware of your existence, in a kind of existential way.
Us? I think of you all as the same fake internet persona, not even a very good AI, since I doubt that the collective of SCH could pass the Turing test.
Well I never!
(read that with extreme indignation, please.)
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
I think the Turing "Imitation Game" would be more appropriate for SCH
Since people never seem to know who is male and who is female.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you serious?
I’m sure every NHLer checks out SCH every day just to read out latest pithy comments.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
I like the way you posed this
based on a not-too-long ago thread, the living Dany Heatley seems pretty Hitleresque.
June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.
Met Probert at Nine
One night when he was skating on the Zhamnov-Amonte line. One of the nicest atheletes ive met. He turned his back on the party he was with, and stood and talked with me for a good 20 minutes about the game, league, Hawks, etc… That dude had the biggest friggin hands I can remember, he put one on my shoulder as we were talking, and i swear his thumb was in the middle of my chest and his fingers were 1/2 way down my back.
Will always remember that look of murderous intent in his eyes when he was throwing fists.
Yep, thats infected.
by Bonvie5ForFighting on Jul 7, 2010 7:43 AM CDT reply actions
He was human
Not someone to whitewash or to villify, just a person with lots of failings and lots of good points, too. He had his issues, but he’s also a big part of my heyday with hockey. He was playing when hockey went from being my dad’s sport that I watched to spend time with him to become my favorite sport, and I’ll always think of him fondly for that.
I guess my glasses are too rosey
as I prefer something like this:
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/reactions-to-the-death-of-a-hockey-icon-bob-probert-dead-at-45.php
Sometimes I don’t need to delve into the REAL/TRUE/UNEDITED Dateline NBC-like story about the “behind-the-scenes” problems…especially days after someone dies. I knew what they were. We all did. My background is Irish-Catholic, and the wakes I’ve attended were true celebrations of people’s lives; with great stories, laughter, and respect…and not every person who laid in that casket lead perfect lives.
I’m not pissing on pieces like this, saying no one should be allowed to share their opinion that Probert was an ungrateful drunk cokehead. I probably went too far with ‘Grampa’ the other day by calling him a prick for sharing that opinion. I got a bit defensive; probably too defensive for a player I grew up watching on my favorite team. Nevertheless, I guess I felt like a venue like SCH might’ve served as a virtual wake for some Hawks fans…to share memories, personal stories, etc. So, when someone came in calling him out about his personal problems, I got defensive.
Like I said, my glasses are too rosey, apparently, and I don’t care for stories like this. I’m backpedaling from using words/phrases like name calling, or saying this was a stupid decision to post this article…because it isn’t fair, and all opinions should be considered. But, I’m entitled to my opinion of showing Probie a little more respect as well.
"What the hell, let's review it." - Dale Tallon
"They are!" - Pat Foley
"What a farce." - Dale Tallon
by HawkVision on Jul 7, 2010 8:48 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Memories of Probert
also include his personal troubles, don’t they? Dying doesn’t erase those. Like everyone, he had his good points and his bad ones; pretending the bad ones don’t exist just because he died is naive.
by Katherine215 on Jul 7, 2010 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, not all memories are required to be wonderful, Kat, I'm well aware
that dying doesn’t erase the personal troubles. I’m not pretending his problems didn’t exist. The area I think I was a little naive was thinking this site was going to be a venue of nothing but great stories, and positive memories. But as I read a post McClure just shared above in response to CNS…I was wrong, and it is not how they feel. That’s fine.
As I mentioned, I’m one of those with the rosey glasses that knows what problems he had, but chooses to put on the aforementioned spectacles and remember the good stuff about Probie instead.
"What the hell, let's review it." - Dale Tallon
"They are!" - Pat Foley
"What a farce." - Dale Tallon
Well stated
Although it wasn’t an article I personally wanted to see posted, it did open up more friendly debate over Probert’s life as compared to our admittedly over-the-top comments in the prior post. It was probably best to let that post die.
Too soon?
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
O/T On a lighter note...
To help you through the summer…The Odd Couple, Episode 5: The Bonus Check. http://bit.ly/bbXtqL
I'm not sure what Chris Block expected the organization to do on Probie's heritage night?
Apparently he wanted the Probert introduced something like this:
Announcer: And now, introducing some selfish drunken cokehead who squandered millions of our dollars, your beloved Bob Probert!
Crowd: yay
Probie: I’d like to thank the organ-i-zation for my contract and for holding my head up while puking in de-toilet. Get it? De-toilet? It’s like a pun!
It must be nice to be some kid and be able to look up stories on the internet and throw together an article that distorts so many facts. I almost don’t know where to begin.
He makes it sound like no one wanted Probie, but the Hawks still quadrupled his salary for no reason. The fact of the matter is that many teams wanted him. He was the best enforcer in the league during a time when enforcers were a big part of the game. He also had talent. That was the price to land Probert.
Yes, Probert never repeated the offensive numbers that he had in Detroit after his first year here. I’ll give Block that, but he doesn’t mention the fact that Probert tore his rotator cuff (I think it was the 3rd season with the Hawks) and often played hurt. He also makes it sound as if his numbers dwindled every year, but I remember him being pretty consistent until his last season. Let’s also not forget that the Hawks completely sucked for quit a few of those years.
There’s also no proof Probie was doing coke on the night of his accident. They found trace amounts of cocaine in his system. Depending on the method used, coke can be detected for 3 to 30 days after usage. He also forgets to mention that Probert was subject to regular drug tests during his time with the Hawks. I believe that was part of contract, although I could be mistaken.
Also, the articles I read regarding the incident at his house state that the videotapes showed that Probert was actually the victim of police brutality, not that the tapes had disappeared. I’m not sure who’s right or who’s wrong here. Yes, Probert often got off easy, most athletes did at the time. I’m not sure why these episodes are even relevant to the article?
EVERY episode that Block mentions happened before or after Probert was with the Hawks. What I got out of this article is that Block is upset that Probert didn’t live up to his contract and therefore felt the need to throw him under the bus with irrelevant episodes from Probert’s life.
I have no problem with someone pointing out the facts that surrounded Probert’s life. Many of them were not pretty. But an opinion piece that drags him over the coals the day after his death? Not really the story I would expect run from a Chicago Blackhawks blog when many other sites, even those of opponents, have run much less biased pieces.
Reactionary histrionics to yesterday’s reactionary histrionics?
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 10:05 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
The story was written a while ago.
This is more of a re-issue.
I loved Probert on the Wings and with the Hawks. Good player, dumbshit off the ice.
I was thinking about when he was a kid and playing hockey. He was probably the biggest and most talented kid on his team. I’ll bet he was a prolific goal scorer. Then some self serving youth/junior coach convinced him that because of his size and toughness he should become a goon/fighter. It got him to the NHL, but he had the hockey talent to stick, where guys like Koci, etc (John Scott?) are just plain fighters. When he got the the Wings he was encouraged even more to be the Tough guy. Maybe one of his problems was that this is not who he wanted to be, but once he got there and it was who he was, he couldn’t get out of it. Substance abuse issues are generally more than just being a partier, IMO. I always felt like if he wanted to (and was allowed to), he could have been one of the best players in the league especially when with the Wings.
I guarantee you that Pronger would have had a harder time against Probert in his prime than he did against Buff.
Holy Crap!
In case anybody is wondering
I did not know Bob Probert. I never met him. I saw him once at Taste of Chicago, but left hm alone. I don’t much care about peoples off ice, diamond, court, office issues. They and their families have to deal with those and I was not one of those. If I was, I would not comment about it on a hockey blog. I comment on this blog with regards to hockey, and some of the cyber relationships/shit giving that goes one here.
Everybody has their issues. We joke about our drinking, and it is funny, but it is a fine line. I’m sure people joked about Proberts partying when he was younger too.
Our #88 is getting a lot of attention for his partying, and some of his press is not that good. He plays great hockey though. I love watching him and I don’t think he is in danger of becoming Bob Probert (I mean Kane is 1/2 the size). He needs his friends and family to watch out for him (less his cousin and Versteeg). It’s only funny and entertaining for a short period of time.
Holy Crap!
Man, where did this come from? Has there been some ridiculous amount of tension building over the last month here at SCH?
Just my opinion
in response to an opinion piece. There’s no anger in what I wrote. I just felt that if this was what was going to be posted, I wanted to point out what I felt were shortcomings of the article.
It mentions almost nothing about Probert’s time with the Hawks. It points out all kinds of episodes that occurred before or after Probert was with the Hawks in an attempt to vilify him to make an unrelated point regarding his heritage night. I felt it was a poorly written article then and still do now. I might be able to agree with Block if his points were more relevant to the article.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
I was more referring to the ad hominem attack on Chris Block typified by the comment
It must be nice to be some kid and be able to look up stories on the internet
I don't know how old Chris Block is
but from his photo it looks as it he might have been lucky to have hit puberty when Probert was signed. I doubt he personally knew or understood the details of his signing. I could be wrong, and you’re right. That might have been better to keep out.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
You had some anger working for you yesterday, my friend...
I understand the emotion of losing a Blackhawk like this, but for me, I just never felt that connection to Probie. To some degree he reminds me of another Detroit fan favorite who moved to Chicago; Rodman. I never liked either of those two when they were in Detroit and at best I tolerated them here. Their off-ice/court behavior was too much for me to ignore.
Again, I understand the point about not tearing a guy down the day after he dies. However, I think when we, not his family, are remembering a public figure it’s fair to remember everything. I know he had his good points, or at least I’ve read some in the past couple of days. Whatever. I find it interesting and somewhat surprising how you and some others have such a strong emotional tie to Probie. I was much more affected by Keith Magnuson’s death.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
Yes, I definitely did have some initial anger yesterday
And that was something I had gotten away from on here for the past few months. (not sure if anyone noticed??)
As I had stated, I read grandpa’s comment literally minutes after hearing the news and was pissed at the timing. Minutes later after I put things back in perspective I tried to counter my initial reaction by simply posting some articles that showed Probert in a more positive light. Probert’s death hit home for reasons outside of Probert himself.
I too was more affected by Maggie’s death, but I don’t remember anyone raking him over the coals on the day of his death (obviously because there was no reason to) and I’m sure in the long run Probert’s death will pale in comparison for me. It was just reactionary histrionics ;)
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Stop apologizing for being mad, buddy ...
You’re a big Blackhawks fan, you loved Probert, this is a Blackhawks blog: let that shit pour out. I don’t mind if you swear at a few people.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 7, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Fuck you Billy
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
That one's for Probert ...
and also for Tie Domi for having such a huge fucking head for Probert to punch.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 7, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
HNIC had a story one night about Domi’s head … in high school football none of the helmets fit him, so he had to tear the padding out in order to be able to wear it. No clue about the truth of that, but it was Ron McLean, I think, who related the story. All I remember is that it seemed a pretty credible story. And I loved it.
www.mjt.org
Please step away.
I can feel the love and it makes me uncomfortable.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
Come here, you big lug ...
and get one of these hugs.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 7, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey, let me know
next time you’re planning on going to a SCH meet-up. Really, give me advanced notice. LOL
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
Same reaction here
Very poor timing: when I read the news + reading that comment soon after = getting a bit too defensive
"What the hell, let's review it." - Dale Tallon
"They are!" - Pat Foley
"What a farce." - Dale Tallon
you know
if you’re backing away from your original diatribe, I tink ya gotta forfeit those 19 (at last count) recs.
June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.
Reactionary Histrionics
I’m going to start throwing that phrase around here in the office. I’m sure I’ll be hearing the CEO using it by the end of the week. LOL
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
A co-worker and I,
used to play “Word Lottery” We would work five words into our weekly meetings with the owner of the company. I would pick two, and my friend would pick two, and the fifth word was the powerball word. If he used my two words and the powerball word, then my friend had to buy my friends for a night.If he used his two but not the powerball word, then I had to buy a 180 ounce tube of bud light.
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
Fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Blackhawks!
by burpchelischili on Jul 8, 2010 6:33 AM CDT up reply actions
You still have to pay for friends?
Oh… I misread. Those kind of “friends.” (nudge nudge wink wink)
And a 180 ounce tube? We know where you’re mind’s at this morning.
You’re busted
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 8, 2010 7:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I still don't know what a 180 ounce tube of beer is.
Also, I don’t normally support graffiti but I do like this sign. That kind of graffiti I encourage!
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
And of course
the only person to ever get busted by that camera was the one who put up that stencil.
It’s a trap!
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 8, 2010 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Well,
In Chicago there is this, in the third picture down is an 84 ounce tube. Or there is this on urban dictionary.
I can’t seem to find a picture of the bud light one we get in Decatur, but it holds about 5.5 liters of beer, and costs 18 bucks. Great for playing pool, and quarters.
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
Fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Blackhawks!
by burpchelischili on Jul 9, 2010 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions
My initial reaction
to the news of Probert’s passing was basically wow, Probert is dead? Shit, he was only 45. How horrible he dropped dead in front of his kids. That poor family. I guess that lifestyle finally caught up to him. After that it was basically memories of him as a player and how he had one of the best right hands I’ve ever seen.
I realize that this article came out well over a year ago but I do find it to be a bit inappropriate to post it at this time. IMHO, it portrays Probert as being pretty much ungrateful, somewhat out of control and to quote Mr. Block “a scumbag drug user”. The only positive I took out of it was the kindness of Bill Wirtz that helped save Probert from himself. I’m sure there is someone else out there besides me that has gone through a family situation similar to this. I had a couple of people close to me that left this earth too early. I’m not too sure how I would react if I read this as an obituary other than it wouldn’t be good for the author.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
If I read something like this and it was about an addict close to me, I would be madder than hell that someone would dare speak the truth, but that’s only because it would hurt so much. That, to me, is not a good reason to ignore the truth, or to gloss over it, or to whitewash it.
I had four friends die in a car accident
about six weeks after my high school graduation. They were all high and/or drunk. The truth of that still makes me mad. Not mad at what the truth does to the driver’s reputation but mad because he and they were so stupid and their lives so wasted.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
You're right about the truth hurting
The thing is, the loss of a loved one stings and you don’t want to think about the negatives because it only makes a bad situation worse. To me, I never ignored the truth (good or bad). One of these people was in my immediate family. I was both sad and pissed off when it happened but every time one of these emotions popped up, I always thought of something funny or good about them to ease the pain. They’ve been gone for over two years and I still get pissed that they’re gone but always come back to the good times.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
Like a lot of the issues here ...
this clearly means much more than a hockey . I understand people who seek respect for a person they appreciated, but that has to be weighed against the desire of people to express their frank opinions on the issue. I think the closer you are to the person the more natural it is to pay respect, while the greater the distance the more comfortable it is to scrutinize a person. Probert is the one who put himself out there, he was one of the most visible professional hockey at the highest level of the game. I think as a public figure it’s not unfair to look at his place within the team and the league and society and blah, blah, blah. I think if you know him personally or have fond memories of him as a player it’s understandable to take offense to some of the conversation, but it has to be considered in the context that Probert himself was the one who went out there and gained the notoriety and fame. He wanted attention on himself as a player, now it’s fair that there is attention on him after that.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 7, 2010 11:38 AM CDT reply actions
Johnny Toews is getting a fucking LAKE named after him in Canada. That is pretty fucking cool.
Compadres! It is imperative that we crush the freedom fighters before the start of the rainy season......And by that I mean it’s time for the worker of the week award!"
Meh, that's like having a star named after you.
Ontario alone probably has more lakes than all the lakes in the US. (that may be a bit of an exaggeration but they have a LOT of lakes up there…)
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
And this I think
may be what’s causing turmoil here. I don’t like it that sports figures are heroized (I may have just made that word up). They are players of a game/sport and are good at doing their jobs. Just like any one of us can be good at doing our jobs.
To me a hero is much, much more than someone doing his or her job. Someone like Toews, perhaps.
Alcoholism is a disease. Addiction is also, I think, a disease. The problem is, people with these types of diseases can and frequently do hurt others. These diseases can be also be treated, and while there is no miracle cure, overcoming them would possibly classify someone as a hero to me, while those who continue to hurt others through their actions shouldn’t IMO be honored without question.
The sun never sets on a badass
by Trixietrx on Jul 7, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
i think the word you're looking for was hero-worshipped? :P
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jul 7, 2010 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Probert was a legend from a era
must fans don’t understand. Rough and tumble leave it all on the ice…Fans went beserk for the likes of the Broad Street Bullys, Stan Jonathon,Bobby Hull, Chris Nilan, Cam Neely….on and on. Probert was a battleship among dingys. He played like a demon possesed…. actually he was.He sold out games against Domi,Crowder, and McSorley. The drinking and the partying was commom place in that era. The stories of the Hawks players at clubs such as Faces and Mothers were common knowledge. Reguardless of his actions off the ice ….he never back down from a challenge including later in life when he knew he was past his prime. What seperates him was his off ice demeaner to fans ……the kind that gives all hockey players a good name. His legend will grow with time.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
This is also cool:
Seen this yet?
http://www.secondcityhockey.com/2010/7/7/1557326/proberts-final-border-crossing
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 4:03 PM CDT reply actions
Can't see the pics as usual at work.
But I’m sure I’ll be filled with righteous indignation as I Rec it when I get home.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
haha, nice.
Well played. No controversy, reactionary histrionics, or anything of that sort. I think most of us would agree we’ve had enough of that round here.
I like the “oh no.” Reminds me of that Foley/Tallon exchange mentioned a couple days ago.
It's the Chicago Blackhawks man...
Yes, you got it!
Thanks for reminding me to credit Byfuglie33 and Mike Martin. Added.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Blah Blah Blah.....
Let’s hold off on punching this guy’s ticket to the Hall of Fame people. As I said before, I was a fan of Probie’s. But 49 goals in 461 games with the Hawks doesn’t mean he should have his number in the rafters. I didn’t even think he deserved a Heritage Night and I think Block agrees with me. I understand that guys that can fight are going to be adored by fans, but statements such as “I wouldn’t have been a fan if it weren’t for him” and “I hope the Blackhawks organization takes care oh his family” are simply uncalled for in my book. And people that think they are in the right because they’re older than some of us or because they have posted 5700 comments is just moronic. It does NOT make any of these people smarter than the next. Like Mclure said, we all have opinions. If somebody became a hockey fan because of Bob Probert, when there were so many other great ones out there in his era, and one REAL Great One, then they are missing the true majesty of the game.
by Grampa on Jul 7, 2010 9:20 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
You really know how to make friends
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions
but
there is a point in here. Probie is an anachronism in today’s NHL, and it’s a bit of a shame, because the guy could actually play hockey.
I think laarmer made this point yesterday- he became a bit goonish because of his size- that wouldn’t have happened if he was born 20 years later.
I too was surprised he got a Heritage Night- as a Hawk, he’s not in the same ballpark with even Edzo.
Still, one year after JHC’s departure, when I see a 24 at the UC, it’s more likely to be Probie than Havlat. Clearly, a lot of people have a real soft spot for the guy.
June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.
Grandpa made up a bunch of ridiculous statements and you see his point?
I really think the Capocolypse is starting to unravel you my friend.
I don’t remember anyone talking about the HOF for Probie – or his number in the rafters – or that he even deserved a Heritage Night.
No one said that because they are older they are right – or because they have 5700 comments that they are smarter.
And then he puts down people for stating their opinion or for the reasons they became fans of the game – all the while continuing to state that he’s a fan of Probie’s. None of these points had anything to do with people’s remarks to Grandpa. It was a matter of “class,” specifically the lack of it.
Politics makes for strange bedfellows?
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 8, 2010 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually
ccm mentioned retiring his number here. I’m not getting involved in the issue, as I became a fan during the Lockout & current hockey is the only hockey I’ve ever known, but I just figured you should know.
Yeah... um... well...
that was ccm. Let’s just say he also said this ;)
Well, still it had nothing to do with the backlash Gramps got.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 8, 2010 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions
a point
one. singular. Heritage Night.
sheesh.
I was mostly motivated to disseminate what I thought was an astute observation from laarmer yesterday.
As far as “And then he puts down…” blah blah blah, the guy was beaten like a drum for his original comment- from that point, I didn’t attach much significance to any of the back and forth.
June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.
I'd be all about putting him in the Circle of Honor.
Let’s not go nuts and retire his number…
It's the Chicago Blackhawks man...
Ah, I see
if someone doesn’t appreciate hockey the way you do, they don’t really get it? That’s a bit arrogant.
I’m not weighing in on the Probert issue; that’s been overly done here. But making judgments about who appreciates the game more is ridiculous.
Your statement
If somebody became a hockey fan because of Bob Probert, when there were so many other great ones out there in his era, and one REAL Great One, then they are missing the true majesty of the game.
is complete Bullshit.
Every fan has a personal favorite and that player doesn’t necessarily have to be one of the “great ones”. Just because a player like Probert made someone become a fan, doesn’t mean that he/she doesn’t appreciate the other players and their talents.
As for your “REAL Great One”, I assume you are referring to Gretzky. While he’s one of the best I’ll ever see, his numbers during the time that Probert came to the Hawks were average and he only played on one team with a winning record in five seasons.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
a
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
Fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Blackhawks!
by burpchelischili on Jul 8, 2010 6:37 AM CDT up reply actions
inflammatory and a bit elitist.
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
Fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Blackhawks!
by burpchelischili on Jul 8, 2010 6:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Uncalled for charity?
I don’t see how hoping the Blackhawks organization would take care of a former player’s family is uncalled for. I would hope the Hawks would help take care of any former Hawk family if it were necessary due to a sudden death.
39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.
Truth Hurt?
As opposed to calling someone a fucking prick because you don’t agree with them?
by Grampa on Jul 7, 2010 9:38 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Are you going to get Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist "Church"
to come and help you protest at the funeral?
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Jul 7, 2010 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions
So now your opinion is "The Truth?"
Who are you, Paul Pierce??
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 7, 2010 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it’s a disease: the Truth Hurt.
Doc, this guy told me Probie was mediocre, and now my teeth are falling out.
Ah, what you got there, boy, is a case of the Truth Hurt.
by meeshak on Jul 7, 2010 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
a
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
Fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Blackhawks!
by burpchelischili on Jul 8, 2010 6:38 AM CDT up reply actions
dude
you’ve had some people speak up for your point of view. quit being so antagonistic and let it go, for fuck’s sake.
June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.
It just struck me that Probie was doomed from the start
when his parents decided, hey, let’s name him Robert Probert.
That reminds me of a skit by Bill Hicks regarding Lou Gehrig at the doctor's office...
“Lou, I think you’re fucked. This disease has your name written all over it!”
Which was then stolen by Denis Leary (as was much of Hicks’ material) doing Babe Ruth…
“Jesus Christ, poor Lou Gehrig. Died of Lou Gehrig’s disease. How the hell did he not see that coming? You know. We used to tell him, Lou, there’s a disease with your name all over it, pal!”
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 8, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
I believe,
that I am done on this site. I have mostly enjoyed the community, and I will miss the daily reading. But after re-reading the grampa/probert shitstorm for the third time, and realizing that one of the leaders has slapped my hand for the third or fourth time (redtribe, NIU, some other guy that picked on Trixietrx) for being too pissy when I respond to them, I must step away.
Thanks for letting me hang out in your bar guys. Go Hawks, and good night.
/Note unceasing sarcastic laughter in background.
Fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Blackhawks!
by burpchelischili on Jul 9, 2010 12:41 AM CDT reply actions
I for one will miss you
I did the same thing during the playoffs. I’ll see you in October?
Holy Crap!
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