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It's Official: Hawks Walk Away From Niemi, Sign Marty Turco

Chris Kuc has just confirmed what Dan Roan (DAN GODDAMN ROAN?!) stated last night on the WGN News: The Blackhawks will walk away from the arbiter's decision of a 1-year, $2.75 million dollar contract for Antti Niemi, and will sign longtime Stars goalie Marty Turco to a one year contract, whose terms are not yet officially available, but if Dan Roan is to continue to be believed, it should be somewhere around $1.75 mildo for the season.

 

....INHALES DEEPLY....

Ok. Well, we'd speculated endlessly, and even played out the scenarios from an on-ice standpoint should Turco-to-the-Hawks became a reality, and now it's finally here. Up until this point, we here at the SCH Offices had been a little surprised with the level-headedness with which all of you were handling the situation, but after seeing some of the comments last night, it looks like reality is setting in. Make no mistake, this is a deep cut here. The Hawks had been playing hardball with Niemi all along, and in the end, the award was just too rich for a team that was going to be dry-humping the salary cap any way you slice it. Had Niklas Hjalmarsson not been tendered an offer from San Jose, this might have been avoided, but it seems the Hawks were never going to let Niemi walk in with his bag with the dollar sign on it and just take whatever he wanted. The fact of the matter is that the Hawks are indeed holding to form to the Detroit model of success, which largely takes the goalie out of the equation provided the skaters in front of him are skilled enough, and Niemi's success coming from seemingly out of nowhere as far as the general public is concerned only drove that point home.

So now what happens?

Well, in Turco, the Hawks get a guy who many believe is on the down side of his career, but his save percentage numbers have remained solid, comparable with Niemi's while facing significantly more shots per game behind a Dallas defensive corps, as Sam pointed out a couple of posts ago. Let's face it, if Stephane Robidas is your number one defenseman, your team sucks. Turco's always been a fantastic dressing room guy, and is the exact opposite of Niemi when it comes to off-ice demeanor. He's outgoing, gregarious, and articulate. So while Niemi may have been a favorite of his teammates, I have little doubt that Turco will be able to ingratiate himself quickly with his new mates, provided he performs. And based on the fact that he's taking a one-year discounted deal shows that he's willing to bet on himself to use this as a stepping stone to one last multi-year deal (despite the depreciated rate for goalies this off-season), and should be highly motivated. Turco was the emergency goalie for the Stars 98-99 run, but has yet to earn a championship being the primary netminder. This is the point where everyone points to Turco as being a playoff choke artist in the mold of Evgeni Nabokov, but Turco has posted a markedly better goals against of only 2.14 in 47 career post season games, compared to 2.29 in 80 tilts for Nabby, and both post an identical .914 save percentage. Contrast that with Antti Niemi's 22 appearances and 2.63 and .910 respectively. And getting back to a point that we've beaten rawer than my junk after a session at AskJolene.com, Turco is still one of the premiere goalies in playing the puck. While the direct results of this will only occasionally be seen, the effect of this will be many, many more offsides calls for the opposition who are trying to force the puck over the Hawks line, because they don't want to have to dump it deep and risk Turco rifling a pass the other way to spring a guy- a speeding Viktor Stalberg, perhaps.

Perhaps more importantly, however, is the ripple effect through the roster that even this seemingly meager $1 mildo in savings nets. Sparing you the full cap clusterfuck right now (though we may delve into it later), this will allow the Hawks to carry 22-23 men on the roster, which allows for greater flexibility in the event of injuries, and also allows for Kyle Beach to possibly make an appearance on the roster, either opening day or deeper into the season after some time in Rock Vegas. And to those who want to after-the fact point to the number Andrew Ladd signed for and say he could have been retained, well, yes, he could have, but that still would have resulted in such roster inflexibility that Stan Bowman would be praying nightly for absolutely no one to be injured. The question also arises of should the Hawks have signed Niemi only to trade him, but in doing so, they'd put themselves in a position of trading from weakness out of their necessity to get under the cap, and Stan and company likely surmised that whatever came back in any potential deal was not worth that risk.

Lastly, this move, coupled with comments made by Stan Bowman at the convention over the weekend, also signifies management's belief that it's finally Corey Crawford's chance to make an impression in the show. Personally, I have liked what I've seen from Crawford every time he's been called upon, particularly his posture in net and confidence at the top of the crease. Corey will finally get his shot, as he'll more than likely start somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25 games this year in spelling Turco. Once we have a bigger sample size, we'll be able to see if what Crawford has shown to this point is enough to put him in net as the started he's long been touted as in 2011-2012.

The loss of Niemi does further justify the Florida Marlins comparisons, and we as fans thank the wordless Finn for all his contributions. But like it or not, the Hawks have found a statistically comparable replacement at a discounted rate during a period when every thin dime counts.

Speaking of which, has someone loaded up Cristobal Huet's I-Pass yet?


EDIT: TSN is reporting a deal at $1.3 mildo for next season, less than half of Niemi's deal, which makes this an even better decision in my opinion. Thanks to cliffkorrol for the link.

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The Hawks screwed this one up badly

Things I would have done differently:

1). Make your arbitration offer not a stupid low number. 1.5 mil is the reported number that came in. That’s stupid low. Had the Hawks came in at 2 or 2.25 like many thought they would, the arbitrator may not have had to make a 2.75 ruling, instead may have sided with the team.

2). Trade Tomas Kopecky. What is Kopecky offering at 1.2 mil that someone else couldn’t? Niemi was essential to the cup run. Kopecky was there…

3). Get one of your two biggest pieces locked up sooner than later. They invited in an offer sheet by dragging their feet. The Hawks knew what they were up against… Why did you wait so long to get something done with either Hjalmarrsson or Niemi. When you need to make every dollar count, you don’t drag your feet.

I wish Niemi the best of luck and I hope Turco proves that he’s not over the hill this year.

by 2883 on Aug 2, 2010 10:38 AM CDT reply actions  

I thought Kop was pretty dam good in the Philly series. Who says that guy can’s step it up and take the Ladd roll?

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Them skills

Dare I say that on a line with Sharp and Hossa, and with what seemed to be improved talent during the end of season/playoffs, Kop is poised to perhaps flirt with the 15 goal mark?

by PDiggy on Aug 2, 2010 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's going to have to.

Second City Hockey

Chicago Blackhawks - 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Things have changed forever, we're the Ramblin' Boys of Pleasure

by McClure on Aug 2, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

15 goals plus assists to Hossa and a physical presence on that line

is a good return on $1.2M. I’m not upset that we’re keeping Kopy. Besides, if we traded him we’d have no one to guarantee the shot in the drinking game for ‘every time a player’s helmet comes off’.

by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 2, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Doesnt losing Kopy mean its possible that Jake Skille could be a top-6 forward? No thanks.

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd say

Toews-Kane-Hossa-Sharp-Bolland-Brouwer are our top 6.

by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 2, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

i would agree

i’d definitely take Brouwer over Kop.

happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!

by puppetmasterp on Aug 2, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

When I think top six

I think the forwards that make up the top two lines, not the best 6 forwards on the team. Therefore, Bolland would be out.

Ditto for CNS

by Hack on Aug 2, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

It really doesn't matter

I think everyone forgets how often Q jumbles the lines anyway. You basically make sure there are 13 forwards on the roster and they will have to learn to play in every role.

by warrenjm2006 on Aug 2, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

regardless of how Q does it

I’m talking about referring to a “top 6” for any team.

Best 6 or actual Front 6 (top 2 lines)? They certainly aren’t always synonymous

Ditto for CNS

by Hack on Aug 2, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

hmmm

In response to your points, the arbitrator doesn’t have to match an offer by a team, but picks a number they think is fair for the player’s services – the offer made by either team might or might not affect the number picked by the arbitrator.

For 1.2, I think Kopecky is worth it. We’ve already eviscerated the forward corps, trading another cheap player for the 600k in savings we get just hurts even more.

and on your third point…. the player needs to sign the contract. It doesn’t matter what the GM wants if the player knows they can hold out for more.

by oregon_hawk on Aug 2, 2010 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

i agree here

As much as Kopecky is not my favorite, that’s the perfect price for an experienced forward who’s one 2 stanley cups with two different teams. i just don’t think getting rid of him would have provided enough cap savings nor bring back comparable quality.

happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!

by puppetmasterp on Aug 2, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

At this point

even I wouldn’t trade him, unless we got something really good. Like Madden.

The sun never sets on a badass

by Trixietrx on Aug 2, 2010 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not what I meant, duh

Trade off Kop for picks or whatever, sign Madden. Whatever, I’m not Bowman, he’s the one to make it work.

But thanks for making me have to clarify something that should have been pretty clear and also slightly sarcastic, if you realized my Madden love.

The sun never sets on a badass

by Trixietrx on Aug 2, 2010 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

It appears that

the Hawks felt they had around $1.5 million to spend on a goalie. They offered it to Niemi first, as they should, and he said no. Based on what we’re hearing about Turco’s deal, they don’t seem to be willing to pay more than that for anyone this year. Turco was next up on the offer list and he took the deal. It apparently wasn’t as stupid low as you think.

by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I’m just pissed off…

I have Niemi in a fantasy league which makes this a double whammy for me. Since he might not end up signing with an NHL team now… I really think 1.5 mil was way too low if you want to retain the player… the bigger the gap between player and team the more the arbitrator has to evaluate the situation… maybe it doesn’t affect the situation that much but do the Hawks keep him at 2.25 or 2.5 or 2?

who knows.

by 2883 on Aug 2, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Supposedly

the arbitor split the different between and Niemi and the Hawks were asking for. If that was the case then offering more on the Hawks end wouldn’t have made the situation any better. Word is Niemi camp asked for 4 mil (Halak money) and the team we know offered 1.5mil. 2.75 is halfway between.

by Fightin Werds on Aug 2, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah don't base reality w/ Fantasy sports

As much as I love fantasy hockey if anyone is intrested this year….

2009-2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Chicago Blackhawks

by Jrs23 on Aug 2, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am.

I’ve played fantasy baseball for a very long time as well as baseball and basketball. I’ve wanted to try hockey, just didn’t know enough people that wanted to try it as well.

by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Aug 2, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

SCH will have a league or two

Even if I’m the one starting it.

Chicagoan in the Lou.

by Mike Martin on Aug 2, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hear fantasy sports are a fun way to spend time...

but I’m gonna have to rec this anyway, cause you’re right as hell.

It's the Chicago Blackhawks man...

by Campbell32 on Aug 2, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Smokin

I’ll shoot you an email when I get home, we do one every year so it’s fun times

2009-2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Chicago Blackhawks

by Jrs23 on Aug 2, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would like an invite too :P

by Dranearian on Aug 3, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not really that big of a deal

But it’s a highly intensely competitive keeper league. So it’d be nice to rub it in people’s faces for a full year.. That said, I’m more upset as a Hawks fan that we’re losing a goaltender who put the Hawks on his backs for a full series or two.

by 2883 on Aug 2, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

which series were those again?

by oregon_hawk on Aug 2, 2010 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

so gamble on horses or stfu

this is not a fantasy sports blog

Second City Hockey Most Postingest Poster of 2009
NOW STOP IT RIGHT HERE

by mjthor on Aug 2, 2010 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gamble on Horses?

The San Jose series he practically won single handedly. He was great in Vancouver as well.

No need to be a douche..

by 2883 on Aug 2, 2010 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

With all the random comments

On this blog, I think you can live with a small section of someone talking about fantasy sports

2009-2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Chicago Blackhawks

by Jrs23 on Aug 3, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, not at all.

Harry Potter? Yes. Obscure existentialists? Yes. Favorite Scotch whiskey? Yes. Fantasy sports? No.

See? It’s just not permitted.

Hey, I don’t write the rules, I just enforce them. You’ll have to speak to your congressman if you want to change it.

39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.

by Badgerdano on Aug 3, 2010 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I Rec that Hackerar!

39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.

by Badgerdano on Aug 2, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

In my experience (not hockey arbitration related)

arbitrators tend to “split the baby” more often than not because it the easy thing to do. My guess is that this happens a lot more frequently in hockey arbitrations because the arbitrator is not a person knowledge regarding hockey.

By offering such a low number the Hawks did more to assure that Niemi was affordable. Making an offer in the $2 Million range would only have ensured an award of $3.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark

by gwood on Aug 2, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

who knows

….if the ’Hawks offered $2M the award may have been $3M. If they offered $2.25M the award may have been $3.125M…

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 2, 2010 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

i know you're pissed, but--

1) The arbitrator doesn’t pick one number between what two sides may have offered. Even if the Hawks’ lowballing influenced the arbitrator to pick a higher number, it must have been clear to the Hawks’ organization that they could only afford a goalie that cost that much.

2) I’m thinking this was a value judgment call. Kopecky did have chemistry with Hossa and playing in one of the top 2 lines— would it have been easy to find someone $700K cheaper than Kopecky to insert in the lineup so the Hawks could pay Niemi $2.2m? Would Niemi have accepted that amount?

3) I doubt they were “dragging their feet”. Both Hjalmarsson and Niemi were looking for a pay day. What could the Hawks have done except try to find a number that would have worked? Hammer clearly didn’t want to sign anything below what he signed with the Sharks, and the same goes for Niemi.

But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.

(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)

by chiblackhawks on Aug 2, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good point on Crawford

I’m glad it’s over. It feels like the last chapter of Capopylypse wasn’t as bad as it might have been.

June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.

by cliffkoroll on Aug 2, 2010 10:39 AM CDT reply actions  

In my mind this is way better than some of the alternatives

The difference from Niemi to Turco is way less than the difference from either Sharp or Bolland to whoever would replace them.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark

by gwood on Aug 2, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Goalie Pad

Coolest thing about Turco were his cool pads. Hopefully he wears cool looking pads here in Chicago too. I hope he brings back the Huet red. Those things were cool.

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 10:43 AM CDT reply actions  

I hope you're joking

Puckin' Hostile

-Matt Cooke is a turd burglar. He burgles ALL the turds.-

-At least he's not Cam Janssen. What a bag of dicks that guy is.-

by G8K33P3R on Aug 2, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Loved those things!

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

GOOD GOD!

they were hideous. I’m thinking about some black pads. MAKE EM LOOK MEAN!

Puckin' Hostile

-Matt Cooke is a turd burglar. He burgles ALL the turds.-

-At least he's not Cam Janssen. What a bag of dicks that guy is.-

by G8K33P3R on Aug 2, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Are you high?

or are you just the vendor looking to make money by selling him the gawdy metallic red pads he will inevitably seek out?

happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!

by puppetmasterp on Aug 2, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Both?

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

oh, ok then.

happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!

by puppetmasterp on Aug 2, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

good for you...

for having the gall to admit your like for his pads.

by aeroplane on Aug 2, 2010 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

keep it white

statistically white is the best kind of pad to use because shooters eyes are drawn to them when they are getting ready to shoot the puck.

by Steveholt on Aug 2, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's what Carey Price did

He learned that red is too enticing for players to shoot at, so he went with white…

by PDiggy on Aug 2, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

and huet

he did the same thing. too bad price still sucks.

by Steveholt on Aug 2, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thats pretty dam cool. Never heard that before.

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

also...

I think white also looks bigger than other colors because of the boards/ice background.

by Steveholt on Aug 2, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

But,

I would think it would be harder to pick-up the rebound off of black pads.

by stanfordron on Aug 2, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

"Camo" - pads?

"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."

by Byfuglie33 on Aug 2, 2010 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're just trying to piss me off - right?

LOL – good stir, buddy!

“Tuco” is our goalie now. If he gets W’s, I don’t a fuck what his pads look like…

"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."

by Byfuglie33 on Aug 2, 2010 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

$1 million dollars....wow

….Doug Wilson is smiling today..

by JB 23 on Aug 2, 2010 10:43 AM CDT reply actions  

Maybe he can make a deal with the Flyers

and get those Stanley Cup-winning game pucks from Pronger for his mantelpiece.

Then he can smile at those all season long while taking deep satisfaction at getting swept in the WCF, as well as failing to get a talented defenseman for his squad.

by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 2, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wilson and all evrybody elsecan smile all they want

I’d rather be a little bit grumpy and have my name on the Stanley Cup

Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."

by cdz3210 on Aug 2, 2010 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

One source has

Turco at $1.3.

A sign and trade for a couple picks for Niemi would be the cherry on top, but $1.45 million is nothing to sneeze at.

June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.

by cliffkoroll on Aug 2, 2010 10:43 AM CDT reply actions  

Original post edited

Thanks for the link.

Second City Hockey

Chicago Blackhawks - 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Things have changed forever, we're the Ramblin' Boys of Pleasure

by McClure on Aug 2, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

1.3 is a good number.

If that’s actually the case, we got a bargain.

by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 2, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

If this is true

I say good job to stan.

Comparable stats, proven history, bargain price.

Seriously, Stan was facing what was right termed as Capocalypse, and he brought it home.

by oregon_hawk on Aug 2, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah I think this was a great move. That’s not sarcasm, I really do.

by Beantown Canuck on Aug 2, 2010 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

wow, much lower than i was expecting

especially considering Turco turned down $2M earlier this off season….

happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!

by puppetmasterp on Aug 2, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Apparently he just didn't want to play for Philly.

Which gives him bonus points to likability in my book.

by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 2, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Mine too

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark

by gwood on Aug 2, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

It shows that a chance at the cup,

Means more than another big paycheck.

Who's leg do I have to hump to get a drink around here?-Brian

by fliphawk4 on Aug 2, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like that about the game of hockey.

Most of the players seem to really care about the game, instead of just the paycheck.

by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 2, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like this attitdue.

still sore from seeing Niemi walk tho.

yet, to have Turco at about $200,000-$450,000 LESS than what was being reported is a nice amount of breathing room as far as the cap goes and speaks volumes about Turco’s priorities.

If Turco signing at this low a number after rejecting higher tags from supposed hockey clubs (Philly. HA!) isn’t blatant motivation to go for gusto in 2010-11 than i don’t know what else will light a competitive fire under our boys’ asses (but that motivation could very well be when they raise our Championship Banner at The UC come opening night … ah, that made me feel better).

"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.

by Hawkynite! on Aug 2, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

THIS.

Abso-damn-lutely.

I too, am sad as hell to see Nemo gone. I think he had a ton of upside, and was really looking forward to him becoming our face of Hawks goaltending for the longterm future.

The one thing that’s got me amped up most though, is Turco’s humility, attitude and priorities. In a perfect world he channels this into a career year behind arguably the league’s best D corps.

It's the Chicago Blackhawks man...

by Campbell32 on Aug 2, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

The way I look at it

Stan basically traded Burish & $150k for Marty Turco while losing Niemi to free agency.

Not bad eh?

by Bluliner on Aug 2, 2010 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Turco won't be 35 no mo

Number speculation? I hope 34.

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 10:44 AM CDT reply actions  

As long as it's not the butt-ugly 53 that Khabby wore when 35 wasn't an option.

Second City Hockey

Chicago Blackhawks - 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Things have changed forever, we're the Ramblin' Boys of Pleasure

by McClure on Aug 2, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed and then some. I don’t much care for Crawford’s 50 either.

My favorite goalie number is 29. Stupid Bickell. Get a real forward number!

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Number game

He wore 30 in Michigan, he may pull that one out.

by PDiggy on Aug 2, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Toivonen is already listed as 30

But I would think Turks has dibs.

Second City Hockey

Chicago Blackhawks - 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Things have changed forever, we're the Ramblin' Boys of Pleasure

by McClure on Aug 2, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Toivonen can wear that in Rockford.

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have been pleasantly surprised by Toivonen btw

I found it interesting that he was traded for following playing against the Hogs when the “Former Hogs” came to Rockford

by 815Sox on Aug 3, 2010 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe a lot of the Bandwagon fans

won’t notice the change if Turco takes Niemi’s number.

Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."

by cdz3210 on Aug 2, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Now thats thinking

Outside the box…

2009-2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Chicago Blackhawks

by Jrs23 on Aug 2, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Discussed on a previous thread -

Don’t worry about Pat – it was pretty well agreed upon that Turco will be a better name for Foley to work with than Niemi.

So he’s got that going for him, which is nice.

by ChuckSchick on Aug 2, 2010 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Turrrrrrrrrrrrr-co

Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."

by cdz3210 on Aug 2, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

From a Dallas Stars fan POV
Let’s face it, if Stephane Robidas is your number one defenseman, your team sucks.

With no disrespect to Robidas intended (because he leaves everything out on the ice), truer words have never been spoken.

Turco’s always relied on his athleticism more than mechanics. And as he’s aged, it’s clear that he’s lost a step.

Still, you could argue that’s a direct reflection on the number of shots he’s had to face in Dallas the last few years and that fatigue became a factor.

And because of that, expect Turco to have a nice bounce back season.

by Brandon Bibb on Aug 2, 2010 10:45 AM CDT reply actions  

We'll cross our fingers about that nice bounce back season.

How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?

by stacie7 on Aug 2, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

still have to wonder

It worries me that he faced so many shots because as we know the hawks don’t give up that many shots, but they tend to give up excellent scoring chances. Niemi did as well as he did because he could sit there for three minutes with no action and then have to stop a two on one or what have you. Here’s hoping that Turco is ok not having as much to keep him loose.

by Steveholt on Aug 2, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

The goalie guild guy

said Turco is a rhythm goalie like Huet. he’ll need to play consistently and that the fewer shots might be an adjustment. I hope Q can have a steadier hand this year. We shall see…

by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ahhh, the Rhythm method...

"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."

by Byfuglie33 on Aug 2, 2010 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Haven't we learned by now the rhythm method isn't reliable?

You should always have good backup protection too.

How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?

by stacie7 on Aug 2, 2010 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

There ya go!

"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."

by Byfuglie33 on Aug 2, 2010 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

If I'm not mistaken...

Turco’s best years statistically were when Dallas had a great defense and he faced only 25 shots a game.

Sounds familiar eh….

And did you hear the Blackhawks won the Stanley Cup?

by TrickyDickAllen on Aug 3, 2010 3:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

The goalie guild guy is right on the money

And based on what I saw of Turco last season, the comparison to Huet is accurate. Turco has the same maddening moments of complete lack of focus, just like Rockford’s newest #1GK. So get ready…

Off topic a bit:
Last off-season all I heard was “RFA fiasco!” “Tallon cost the Hawks millions!” etc. And yet somehow this off-season everyone is giving Bowman a pass on completely fucking up his only two RFA signings.

I’m not saying I know this wasn’t the case, but what was to prevent Bowman from getting both deals in place long before June 30th???

"I saw [Watson] coming at me from the side so I wheeled around and cleaved him from the top of his forehead to the bridge of his nose, for 35 stitches. Without any remorse at all." - B. Hull

by alexf on Aug 4, 2010 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

which two RFA signings are you talking about?

do you mean Hammer & Nemo? I don’t think either were fuck-ups. Fuck-ups are not getting offers sheets sent in on time therefore causing you to overpay players by millions, which helps lead to a cap crunch causing you to jettison more players from a team than desired at a season’s end.

When both of your RFAs turn down the deals you offer which then leads to offer sheets and arbitration, it’s not a fuck-up but more of a standard negotiation process. Bowman couldn’t get both deals in place by June 30th because there’s also the other side who has every right to say, “I want more money than you’re willing or able to give during this time period.”

by ahnfire on Aug 4, 2010 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

As Sam brought up in his previous post, Turco posted phenomenal numbers playing behind a defense in Ken Hitchcock’s system that allowed a minimum of shots.

Second City Hockey

Chicago Blackhawks - 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Things have changed forever, we're the Ramblin' Boys of Pleasure

by McClure on Aug 2, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

oh ok excellent, that bodes well. Lord knows if he can play well in the Gungan King’s system he should do well here.

by Steveholt on Aug 2, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

i’ll admit, that’s actually pretty reassuring

happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!

by puppetmasterp on Aug 2, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

STEEEEEEEEEVE HOLT!

You must have me confused with someone else, I have never been to Chicago.
[whispers] I sexually assaulted Scottie Pippen in 1997.

by DocPepper on Aug 2, 2010 12:18 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Dude...

I told you no more Journey psych-outs.

by Steveholt on Aug 2, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

coop what’s a vagoina?

HAWKS! ... that is all

by RLWiener on Aug 2, 2010 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

That wasn’t a gay joke, it was an austrailian joke!

Awww!! Awww!!!

It's the Chicago Blackhawks man...

by Campbell32 on Aug 2, 2010 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

aww sick one of brittneys moms pubic hairs, aww and another one

HAWKS! ... that is all

by RLWiener on Aug 2, 2010 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

is your username a Wonderfalls reference?

Go jump in Toews Lake.
Aubrey: old German for king of the elves. Huff: English for...huff.

by shinkicker on Aug 2, 2010 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

It could be a reference

to The Thick Of It. That’d be awesome.

by Germware on Aug 2, 2010 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

i knew it wasn’t the right reference but he went with baseketball so i followed lol

HAWKS! ... that is all

by RLWiener on Aug 2, 2010 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

How'd we pull BASEketball out of this?

cone
fuzed

You must have me confused with someone else, I have never been to Chicago.
[whispers] I sexually assaulted Scottie Pippen in 1997.

by DocPepper on Aug 2, 2010 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

well.....

your post above was either an Arrested Development reference or a BASEketball reference. Since you elongated the Steve part I figured it to be the latter.

by Steveholt on Aug 3, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Changed Holt to Perry.

Either way, great reference.

It's the Chicago Blackhawks man...

by Campbell32 on Aug 3, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Please knock on wood.

But you are on point here. He’s in a great situation now and can step in as a sort of elder statesman in the wake of Madden departing.

by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Aug 2, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sadly

I think Nemo’s the biggest loser here. He’s now a free agent in a down year for goalies when the musical chairs game is almost over. He may end up in the KHL afterall, comrades.

by hawkeytalk on Aug 2, 2010 10:49 AM CDT reply actions  

he gambled and lost.

I’m sad for him that he’s now in what could be a shitty situation, but he had a hand in getting there. :(

by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

i do feel really bad for him

i had a sot spot for the little-Nemo-that-could all last season, even before Huet shit the bed. I guess i just like Cinderella stories. I DO hope he ends up somewhere he can still thrive….

happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!

by puppetmasterp on Aug 2, 2010 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

back to the Zamboni if nothing else

I agree with you puppet. I really hope he does land somewhere that he likes.

How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?

by stacie7 on Aug 2, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hope Niemi succeeds too

but I wouldn’t mind it if he fired Zito over this. I little poetic justice would be welcome.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark

by gwood on Aug 2, 2010 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree

that I expect Nemo will come to regret the decision to leave the comfy security blanket knitted for him by Keith, Seabrook, et. al.

by ChuckSchick on Aug 2, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Come on!!!!

Zito has nothing to do with this. He is worth more than the Hawks can pay him. There is nothing greedy about this. Your talking about a position with a pretty low career tenure. What would you have both of them do?

by NiemiNation on Aug 2, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

This Zito-as-usurper horseshit needs to stop

by Bellwether Meltdown on Aug 2, 2010 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can you guys answer something for me?

I don’t get how the only xhoice was to walk away.

Even if they accepted and traded him right away for a bag of pucks ( more likely pick(s))…isn’t that a bag O’ pucks they didn’t have before?

Surely Marty would have waited a day or two longer?

by vancitydan on Aug 2, 2010 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

it might be in the thread previous to this

but there’s the possibility we wouldn’t have had a trade, and would’ve had to stash him in Rockford.

I’m sure Bowman was on the phone the second the arbitration decision came in, looking for trade options, but apparently none came up.

Go jump in Toews Lake.
Aubrey: old German for king of the elves. Huff: English for...huff.

by shinkicker on Aug 2, 2010 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

someone else pointed out

that he’d probably been trying to work a trade for longer than just the 48 hours since the arb award. It probably just wasn’t there, and Stan didn’t want to get stuck with yet another goalie he can’t afford if he signed him in anticipation of a trade that never came up.

by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

The goalie market is farting dust.

No one wants a one year at 2.75

"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."

by Byfuglie33 on Aug 2, 2010 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah…I know the market has a surfeit of talent available.

But reading around the Ol’ Interwebs, there is serious interest in Washington and several others. You can bet other teams are looking at their goalies and wondering if replacing…say Mike Smith in TB wouldn’t give the Bolts an awesome 1-2 with Ellis.

Other teams must have a similar idea. I think he is an awsome goalie at that price. 2.75 in a league where Halak got 3.5? It was fair…no?

I guess it was no one he wanted to deal with ( like he wouldn’t deal with the Canucks on either Ladd or Versteeg…and DW is probably not on his return calls list now either )…

The thing is with Niemi, he would not have been stuck with him…no way he clears waivers…his deal is way better than Huet’s. He will get there.

I just thought they could have managed the asset a bit better. I really find it hard to believe that a guy with his record and season could not find a home at that reasonable price.

by vancitydan on Aug 2, 2010 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure there's a reason we will never know about.

I don’t see the team giving up on getting a return out of Niemi if they could. Who knows if there is some other reason we just aren’t privy to.

How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?

by stacie7 on Aug 2, 2010 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe they did it to be nice?

So he could get a good UFA deal elsewhere?

Don’t look at me like that, I like my naive dreamworld.

by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Now they are just going to say we are being such "girls" about it.

We have to keep up our “fear us” appearance you know.

How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?

by stacie7 on Aug 2, 2010 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

They might have done it to screw him.

I believe he may have to sign for less. But you never know.

Here, have some chocolate. Have you ever been to Hershey, PA?

"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."

by Byfuglie33 on Aug 3, 2010 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

rainbows!

June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.

by cliffkoroll on Aug 3, 2010 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah…probably.

To tell the truth, as a Canuck fan, I thought it was a win for the Hawks on the arb decision. That it was a no brainer to keep him. I thought anything under 3.5 was good, after Halak’s deal.

2.75 for a starter?

I guess the Cap problem was even worse than I thought. Turco is a good signing, and the price can’t be beat.

But good young goalies don’t grow on trees. I guess that theory about “any goalie could have won with the Hawks last year” will be tested…hmmm?

by vancitydan on Aug 3, 2010 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

the extra $1.45 million

let’s us ice a full 22-23 man roster, or slightly more expensive 3rd and 4th liners, or a more veteran 5th Dman. Now we don’t have to pray no one gets hurt or play with a short bench if they do.

It’s not ideal, obviously, as we all wanted Niemi to stay, but it seems the Hawks allocated $1.5 million for a starting goalie and weren’t budging from that number. It’s definitely a good number for a starting goaltender, though his lack of experience makes it a little risky.

by Katherine215 on Aug 3, 2010 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

very astute comments

thx for sharing.

Last season, there was a contingent here that thought the Hawks were DOOMED! becase of the Bonnie Situation aka Great Goalie Debate.

Now, the other extreme is being tested. The “goalie? pfft.” mentality has swept the league, but the epicenter feels like SCH.

This is the only reason I can think of why the Hawks didn’t land a bag of pucks for Nemo.

June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.

by cliffkoroll on Aug 3, 2010 7:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

"The Bonnie Situation"

lol.

great fucking flick.

It's the Chicago Blackhawks man...

by Campbell32 on Aug 3, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Does that make Stan Bowman Mr Wolf?

by vancitydan on Aug 3, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

any team, any cap

Would you want a one year deal with an agent you know will hold you for ransom at the end?

It’s lose – lose, if he sucks you get burned right away, if he’s lights out, you get burned at the end.

Not talking about UFA that he is now, but talking about the Hawks ability to sign and trade.

"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."

by Byfuglie33 on Aug 3, 2010 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

err... "soft" spot

but we all know i can’t type

happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!

by puppetmasterp on Aug 2, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

My youngest daughter

is practically in tears. She hates this dismantling more than as much as I do. She has a crush on Niemo somehow related to Kop slapping his face after a win.

39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.

by Badgerdano on Aug 2, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

There are some clubs she might be interested in joining once she's 18

And I think Kop did that with Huet, too, if that makes her feel any better. So he could start it up with Turco and Crawford.

Go jump in Toews Lake.
Aubrey: old German for king of the elves. Huff: English for...huff.

by shinkicker on Aug 2, 2010 12:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

if the crush is on Nemo

then Stalberg is clearly not her type…

But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too." -- 2/28/10, so our Captain has said, and so it was done.

(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)

by chiblackhawks on Aug 2, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

it's a good life lesson...

She’ll hopefully learn that replacements sometimes can be good. Here’s to hoping for the best.

by aeroplane on Aug 2, 2010 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Some NHL GM would snag him if it came to that and I find it hard to believe that Edmonton or Washington would pass on him.

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Offer him the 80% minimum allowed for this situation – heck, thats what I was hoping he would sign with us for.

by oregon_hawk on Aug 2, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Those Europeans seem to like the cold! (See Khabi)

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

That is awesome. Turco passed on more more from Philly to sign for significantly less with the Hawks.

Fuck you Philly!

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

well, i can't say all the Philly fans were necessarily sweet on Turco

i’m assuming that some of them might be thinking they dodged a bullet (i.e. committing to Turco for more money than we’re paying when they too are cap-strapped).

happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!

by puppetmasterp on Aug 2, 2010 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

PREDICTION: Niemi will reunite with Tallon

And Vokun will be jettisoned (he’s in his last contract year before UFA).
Net savings to the Panthers of about $3M.

"I saw [Watson] coming at me from the side so I wheeled around and cleaved him from the top of his forehead to the bridge of his nose, for 35 stitches. Without any remorse at all." - B. Hull

by alexf on Aug 4, 2010 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Niemi and his retard agent

If this goes bad for Niemi (which i think it will) this story will forever be talked about… Team Discovers you. Puts you in the NHL. Gives you a chance in the NHL. Win the Stanley Cup. You don’t talk home town discount like other players did and you suck. Probably the worst move the young fin has done. Where is he going to play? Does anyone have any ideas? Florida, Tamba, Toronto, or maybe he could just follow everyone to Atlanta. I think this worked out horribly for Niemi. The Hawks are going to be great for the next ten years and he throw that away for a million dollars. He would have gotten his big contract he just needed to be a little patient. But NOOO…… I say see you later Niemi I hope you learn from this when your watching Turco and Crawford tear it up which is going to happen. Because thats all we need was a decent goalie. We Had the second best record in the west with HUET!!

So I say Good Night and Good Luck

by ChicagoWho?12 on Aug 2, 2010 10:57 AM CDT reply actions  

Florida, Tampa and Toronto are all spoken for.

by PDiggy on Aug 2, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

He could still go to Tamba, though.

You must have me confused with someone else, I have never been to Chicago.
[whispers] I sexually assaulted Scottie Pippen in 1997.

by DocPepper on Aug 2, 2010 12:21 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Why?

They already have Dan Ellis and Mike Smith…

by PDiggy on Aug 2, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's a play on the error

Tamba=nonexistant.

I see it's "no criminal record" night at the ballpark -- billyok before a game against the A's
I have witnessed the 2005 World Series championship, Mark Buehrle's perfect game, and the 2010 Chicago Blackhawks Stanley Cup championship in my lifetime.

by chisoxfan1473 on Aug 2, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

oh, i jus thod he had a code

ad was tybing to reflegged thiz realidy

happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!

by puppetmasterp on Aug 2, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

His retard agent...

…also got him in the league in the first place when the guy was barely a starter in the Finnish league.

He may not get 2.75, but he’ll land somewhere in the NHL for more than he was making back in Europe.

by GenPabloSecobar on Aug 2, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

His options in the NHL

With the exception of a GM trading to make room for him as an already established goalie, the only teams with goaltending holes are Nashville, Carolina, St Louis, maybe the Islanders? And they’re all as backups or sharing no. 1 duties…sort of. I am sure I am missing a team or two…

by PDiggy on Aug 2, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

St. Louis signed Halak to big bucks

I would be very surprised if they came knocking on Niemi’s door.

How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?

by stacie7 on Aug 2, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

True that. There’s a possibility a team would make room for him while they already have a number 1 guy (to various degrees): Calgary, San Jose, Ottawa, Washington, Philly…

by PDiggy on Aug 2, 2010 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Calgary has no money. Ottawa would be interesting and Washington even more so.

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

A sign and trade for Varlomov would have been pretty cool

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Varlamov sucks

fuck that guy. Washington needs a goalie who can win NOW – not a project that’ll be good in a few years. varly is young…but already has an injury history and was sent down last season to the AHL b/c of poor play.

by Bluliner on Aug 2, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

you're like a toned down version of BLou

very “matter of fact” / “tell us how you really feel” opinions (granted I did just make a post entitled Fuck. Fantasy. Sports.)

I’m not saying you’re wrong on any one particular thing, I’m just saying that you don’t seem too open to the possibility of being wrong

Ditto for CNS

by Hack on Aug 2, 2010 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Decisiveness.

That’s the word you’re looking for.

by Bluliner on Aug 2, 2010 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

well, in the context of my sentence

decisive would fit better than decisiveness, but yeah decisive, that’s the more positive version of what I’m saying.

Ditto for CNS

by Hack on Aug 2, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

washington has varlemov and neuvirth, both of which posted similar numbers and are 5+ years younger. they won’t look at him.

ottawa has too much money locked up in leclaire and elliot.

st. louis already has halak and one of the best backups in the league in conklin.

philly can only afford $2m and that’s pushing it.

san jose maybe, but they’ll miss out on a d-man or 2 by paying $4.5m plus to nittymaki and niemi.

nashville already has big money in rinne and is just looking for a backup.

carolina has ward.

the islanders have dipietro and roloson.

by modnar on Aug 2, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Niemi may take the 2 in Philly

if it was more than what the Hawks were offering, and the Islanders goalies you named plus their cap room make that an obvious choice. Roloson is 49 and Dipietro has no knees.

by GenPabloSecobar on Aug 2, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

if he does take the 2,

we should get draft picks for that, i think.

by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

tis true

Hawks management opted not to get anything rather than have to make a crappy exchange to unload him.

happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!

by puppetmasterp on Aug 2, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

In some ways

That meant the hawks would’ve been the ones playing chicken, right?

Suppose they sign him for the $2.75. Then they find that they cannot unload him at that price at all, much less for a draft pick. They are stuck holding the bag with the salary. Am I right here?

I guess they figured that they can live without the pick since they are getting a good number already, and they can just move on. And if he signs for less than 80%, they get one anyway. So little or no downside in just letting him walk.

by hawkeytalk on Aug 2, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

um, just to clarify

I was wrong – they don’t get anything if he signs for less than 80% except the option to match. Sorry for the confusion…

by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK

Saw your mea culpa further down. Amazing how rumors spread :p

by hawkeytalk on Aug 2, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Absolute worst case scenario

 would have been to sign him looking for a team to trade to.
All the teams called the Bluff.
So Nemi is put on waivers and sent down to the minors.
Turco gets injured, so they call up Nemi.
Nemi gets calmed by a team and now Chicago has to pay 1/2 his salary

by Prometheus74 on Aug 2, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’ve been using the argument that few GMs listened to Bowman make an offer with Niemi at 2.75; they realized they should wait, call Bowman’s bluff and then talk to Niemi directly.

by PDiggy on Aug 2, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

He can't take 2 in Philly

can he? I thought after arbitration he can only sign contracts for as low as 80% of the final award anywhere else in the NHL, which would be 2.2.

by rsncrntz on Aug 2, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think he can sign

but the Hawks have like a week to match it or get draft picks. i linked to this in one of the threads but I have no idea which one. they all blur together.

by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was when he was an RFA but he went to arbitration and that is no longer the case.
He is now a UFA

by Prometheus74 on Aug 2, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

The CBA says

that if a player who goes through arbitration and becomes a UFA signs a deal for less than 80% of the arbitrators award, the team involved in the arbitration has a period of time to match the terms of the deal.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark

by gwood on Aug 2, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I suppose it

was intended to provide the team with a little extra protection.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark

by gwood on Aug 2, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

ah, that's what I was remembering

Do they get picks if they don’t match or did I make that part up?

by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

If I remember it right

you made that part up :).

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark

by gwood on Aug 2, 2010 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

oh damn.

well, i can’t be right all the time, unfortuantely.

by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's why the rest of us are here

to cover for you in those oh so rare instances

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark

by gwood on Aug 2, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

See Section 12.6(c)
© If a Club exercises its walk-away right, the following
applies:

                  (i) If the player accepts an offer from a
New Club in respect of that year of the contract which the Prior
Club has walked-away from that is less than 80% of the award for
such year, the Prior Club may, within seven (7) days after the
date it receives the applicable Offer Sheet, elect to match the
offer of the New Club and the Player and the Prior Club shall
enter into a Player Contract on those terms and conditions

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark

by gwood on Aug 2, 2010 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I apologize

The website I was using had the older CBA posted and not the 2005 CBA. The 2005 CBA does not have the 80% provision.

Prometheus74 is right.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark

by gwood on Aug 2, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think so

I didn’t confirm the source at all, instead trusting Google to bring me only relevant sources. Stupid Google to not know the different between the 1995 CBA and the 2005 CBA.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark

by gwood on Aug 2, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

the same thing apparently happened to me.

though the site I was on showed it was updated in 2010 and never said it was the ’95 CBA. sigh.

sorry, everyone. I was way wrong too.

by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

realistically

 that would mean someone signing they Nemi for less than 1M

by Prometheus74 on Aug 2, 2010 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

No

it’s 800% of the award. So, since the arbitrator awarded Niemi $2.75 million, the Hawks have a chance to match if a team offers Niemi $2.2 Million or less.

Not sure how it works if the team offers Niemi a longer term contract and the cap hit is less than $2.2, but the first year’s salary is more.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark

by gwood on Aug 2, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

800% of the award?

Now that would be a good payday!

How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?

by stacie7 on Aug 2, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really sux

when you make an error like that while correcting someone :)

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark

by gwood on Aug 2, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

at least you didn't reply fail

while making a mistake while correcting

How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?

by stacie7 on Aug 2, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

good point

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark

by gwood on Aug 2, 2010 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Those decimal points...

amazing how important they are.

39 years of pain vaporized by one OT goal.

by Badgerdano on Aug 2, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Always

had issues carrying the 1 too

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark

by gwood on Aug 2, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

i think it’s more the money and “future” they have tied up in dipietro that would prevent them from looking at him.

by modnar on Aug 2, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting because We found him in finland… Had nothing to do with his agent who he got afert we found him. if you didnt notice his agent was from chicago who he got after we brought him here

by ChicagoWho?12 on Aug 2, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

uh, didn't his agent

send Tallon tape of Niemi playing in Finland? I think you’re wrong here.

by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

tallon and other teams. if i remember right, we outbid detroit for his services.

by modnar on Aug 2, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

right, but it was Zito

who sent the tape. He had signed Niemi before we had found him. This is mainly in response to the 12 year old above.

by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

sorry, didn’t mean to sound like i disagreed.

by modnar on Aug 2, 2010 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nice Insult

I may have been mistaken from what heard. Hows Menopause working out for you? Jeez

by ChicagoWho?12 on Aug 2, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well this is rare.

Normally douchebaggery like this is reserved for the likes of Redtribe.

by Delta0ne1 on Aug 2, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

You think it will be bad?

well, maybe, it’s different for every woman, after all. But I appreciate your concern!

by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

You go girl.

/snaps fingers three times in a “Z” motion

You must have me confused with someone else, I have never been to Chicago.
[whispers] I sexually assaulted Scottie Pippen in 1997.

by DocPepper on Aug 2, 2010 12:27 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Everybody is ripping Zito

but I do not think you are being fair. You are all talking about what Niemi could make over the next ten years, but that is really just two birds in the bush. Niemi could also blow out his knee in his first exhibition game and never step on the ice again. The job of his agent at this point in his career is to get him the biggest present guarantee he can right now. Six mill for three years in better for Niemi that two mill for one year. A young player has to bank the money while he can because he cannot be sure what the future holds. If Niemi was further along in his career and already had earned a few years of large paydays, that would be different – kind of like the position Turco is now. But, no matter where he has to play, if Zito gets him a multi-year deal and makes sure he ends up with a few mill (after taxes and Zito’s cut), then Zito has done a very good job for his client. The Hawks were not going to give Niemi more than one year at a decent price regardless. If Zito had to talk his client out of taking a reduced-rate one-year contract from the Hawks, that is even more of an indictaion that Zito did a good job for Niemi. Not to our advatage but, this is really the truth. Sorry folks.

by stanfordron on Aug 2, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed

the worst that can be said about Nemo and Zito is that they didn’t anticipate a rapidly-deteriorating goalie market.

Hell, Turco may have made a similar miscalculation.

June 30, 2010. We will rue this day.

by cliffkoroll on Aug 2, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

No doubt,

but it is easier to make a multi-million dollar bet when you already have several mill in the bank.

by stanfordron on Aug 2, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is only true if you know

exactly what the Hawks offer was. Do we have details on their offer?
I agree that Zito was hired to get his client the most money over his career. But Zito will deserve to get ripped if Niemi doesn’t end up making more this year and in the future. IMHO, many of us here believe Niemi’s best career choice would be to remain as the Blackhawk’s #1, with Keith, Seabrook and company in front of him. Whether for a year or longer. As you said, he risks his career every time he steps on the ice. They all do. He also risks his career if he goes to play for Edmonton and finds out he is a mediocre goalie who had an outstanding cast in front of him. I am not saying that WILL, happen, but it might.
All this is speculation. Zito gets ripped because we feel he advised his client poorly.

by ChuckSchick on Aug 2, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

But,

“many of us here” are looking at one possibility and not the other – a pre-season career ending injury. The difference is that taking the risk with us on a one-year $2M deal leaves Niemi with maybe $800K in the bank and looking for a position as a Zamboni driver while taking the risk after signing a three-year deal with a lesser team (even for as little as $2.5M/year) leaves Niemi with over $3M in the bank (after taxes and Zito’s cut) and not worried about finding work the rest of his life.

Plus, if you think Zito might deserve to “get ripped” by what his advice looks like in hindsight, then you and I follow diiferent rules of logic.

by stanfordron on Aug 2, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not looking for a fight, but your reasoning is faulty.

Zito will only be off the hook once Niemi both signs for more than the Hawks best and final pre-arbitration offer, AND has a better career than he would with the Hawks.

He gets ripped because of the course that he has apparently advised his client to take.

The injury argument is faulty, as that will / can happen playing in (per say) Edmonton as in Chicago. Your multi-year argument is only valid if you assume the Hawks didn’t offer one, which would be a huge surprise to me. Your post implies that you know their best / final was a one -year deal – I’d love to see support for that, as I would agree with you that Nemo / Zito took the best route if such were true. Please supply your source.

Otherwise, Zito gets ripped because I feel he advised his client poorly. If the market for Turco is $1.3m – $1.75m for one year, and there are 6 legitimate experienced (at least as experienced as Niemi) NHL UFA goalies still without jobs for the fall, he gets ripped for his advice because of what we can all see today. There is no “hindsight” here. The market for UFA goalies is soft. I can see this, and I am not a professional agent. The job of the agent is to know the market for his client’s talents, and maximize that client’s earnings. Until he actually succeeds in getting Nemo a new and better contract, he deserves derision.

by ChuckSchick on Aug 2, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Even with all the uncertainty I’m excited for next season. We’re a talented (Championship) team who somehow still has something to prove. That can’t be a bad thing. A full season of Hossa and Bolland will be major and its time that Kane takes the step for 30 goals to 40. I think Toews continues to get better as well.

As for Skille-Stalberg and Bickell this is their chance to prove they are NHL ready. I was surprised by guys like Buff and Brouwer and there’s no reason it can’t happen again.

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 10:57 AM CDT reply actions  

This is what I have

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)
Marian Hossa ($5.275m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m)
Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Kyle Beach ($1.170m)
Bryan Bickell ($0.541m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / Jack Skille ($0.600m)
/ Jeff Taffe ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brian Campbell ($7.142m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
Shawn Lalonde ($0.773m) / Jordan Hendry ($0.625m)
/ John Scott ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS
Marty Turco ($1.750m) /Corey Crawford ($0.800m)

CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $4,157,753

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,912,423; BONUSES: $610,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $97,577

I’m not gonna use the 1.3 number until its confirmed, because thats a great deal. Basically, we can have a 22 man roster with beach (if its 1.3, maybe a 23 man roster with beach) or a 23/24 man roster without beach, depending on the number.

by oregon_hawk on Aug 2, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

If Beach spends half a season in the AHL as some are suggesting..

That’s going to save you another $250,000 or so on the cap, assuming a minimum-salary guy is on the roster for the first half while Beach gets more seasoning.

by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 2, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Love the idea of the late season call up with Beach.

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

NOOOOOOo

Beach has got talent ya he is really raw but beating the shit out of people in the AHL is not going to help him. He needs to be brought up Now not in the middle of the year now. training camp is in september i guess we get to argue about this until then lol

by ChicagoWho?12 on Aug 2, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

…dont want him to feel entitled. Make him prove he can play smart hockey in Rockford before you call him up. Make him get used to playing smart hockey.

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

THIS, so much of this

he clearly needs more discipline, and a bit more seasoning too. I too would love to see a mid-season call-up for Beach. Plus, though he IS talented, if we can’t make it through half the season in a decent position without him on the roster, there will be much more to worry about other than the lack of Kyle Beach on the bench.

happy ninja is happy....and wants to share its new toy!

by puppetmasterp on Aug 2, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

fighting is a small part of beach’s game. if he develops into what he should, he’ll be a 20 goal scorer who can play with toews and kane. he’s got a lot to develop from a two-way game, dealing with the speed, etc. going from being a 19yo playing against 16-19yo’s to playing in a league with adults requires some time to adjust.

by modnar on Aug 2, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not the Blackhawks responsibility

to give him opportunities. It’s his responsibility to show he can handle it. While they want to do what they can to foster their talent, their first priority is having a winning NHL team. If he hasn’t shown he can handle himself at the higher levels, he doesn’t get a spot.

by rsncrntz on Aug 2, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

In one of the final panel sessions at the convention Sunday

Cheveldayoff made a point of emphasing the teams desire to not rush prospects to the bigs and give them all the development time they need in the minors. (And he pointed out that this meant personal development, which I took as meaning emotional development, as well as hockey development.)
 I don’t think we’ll see Beach with the big club next season unless he really stands out in camp or at Rockford

"Life is a long lesson in humility."
- James M. Barrie

by nextgame on Aug 2, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

In NHL 2010 I have been manually updating the rosters. For this season my lines were this

Brouwer-Toews-Kane
Kopy-Sharp-Hossa
Stalberg-Bolland-Skille
Bickell-Dowell-Scott/Taffe

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

'11

comes out in sept., right? Can’t wait, time for my D-man to take his place alongside Keith :)

by oregon_hawk on Aug 2, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah it does. I cant wait. I just hope you can edit player names and change wing/center positions. Sharp is a winger who will be a center next season.

It sucks they give Madden all the attention and we get the shaft. Fantastic game though.

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Its safe to say I will be starting a franchise in GM Mode tomorrow night with the Hawks with Turco as goaltender.

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmm.

These are my guesses.

Kane-Toews-Brouwer (the ‘the kids are alright’ line)
Hossa-Sharp-Kopecky (the ‘two Slovaks and pure sex’ line)
Bickell-Bolland-Beach (the ‘annoy the hell out of the opposition, then beat them up’ line)
Stalberg-Dowell-Skille (the ‘who the hell are these dudes’ line)

Seabs’n’Keith
Meatball Soup
Hendry-Lalonde
John Scott

Turco, Crawford

by spokeinthebandwagon on Aug 2, 2010 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

hah

I wanna have bickel, dowell, and skille on the same line so we can have “the L line” in Chicago, though Sharp and the Slovaks is a nice line too (and I don’t see stalberg on third line being that great)

by oregon_hawk on Aug 2, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

god

My typing is horrid today. Anyone know who Bickel is?

by oregon_hawk on Aug 2, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Travis Bickel.

Played with the Hawks in ’98, I think. D-man with high penalty minutes, anger management issues you know. He drives a cab now.

by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 2, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

He was always complaining about all smell of the city and the scum that walked the streets here. He didn’t seem to enjoy his time though.

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh that’s right. Great guy that Bickel! He saved that poor girl!

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

E.L.E line as in Everbody Love Everbody

The bickell, Dowell, Skille line should be called the ELE line as in Everbody Loves Everbody

Maybe Hossa and Sharp can be called Sex Panda like Sex Pather cause it works 80% of the time Everytime and smells like bigfoots dick shit covered in burnt hair because of kopecky

by KindofaBigDeal on Aug 2, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Stalberg’s skill set is not that of a 4th liner. He’d be totally out of place there. Too fast, too much of a scorer. He’ll be shotgunning with Sharp or Bolland.

Second City Hockey

Chicago Blackhawks - 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Things have changed forever, we're the Ramblin' Boys of Pleasure

by McClure on Aug 2, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Speed kills!

19-88-81-2-7-10-36-4-51 : The Hawks

by HjammerTime on Aug 2, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

The more I read about Stalberg

the more excited I get to see him play as a Hawk

How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?

by stacie7 on Aug 2, 2010 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't worry

That did not go unnoticed by me. We’ll definitely have to stock up on the Stalberg photos so we can break them out when needed like the Sharp pictures.

How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?

by stacie7 on Aug 2, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

What

Do you have like a break-glass-in-case-of-emergency case full of the hawk hotties?

by oregon_hawk on Aug 2, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kind of

Think of Sharp as our little good luck slump buster. We would break out a few Keith pictures when needed too.

How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?

by stacie7 on Aug 2, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sharp was in fine form

at the convention. He was hilarious in the panels I saw him in. Only bad thing was his new wedding ring. :(

by Katherine215 on Aug 2, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

They were all looking good at the second city thing

From the pictures I saw.

Go jump in Toews Lake.
Aubrey: old German for king of the elves. Huff: English for...huff.

by shinkicker on Aug 2, 2010 12:15 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

All looking good

and all funny as hell. I was pretty sure that Sharp was going to kill Seabrook, who kept tormenting him during one of the skits. Who knew comedy was that dangerous?

by rsncrntz on Aug 2, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Screencaps from him by the lake

from his day with the cup should do the trick.

Go jump in Toews Lake.
Aubrey: old German for king of the elves. Huff: English for...huff.

by shinkicker on Aug 2, 2010 12:14 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions