Accused of Cruising: Panthers 3 - Blackhawks 2
Well.. all good things come to an end at some point, eh? After a first period that looked as sloppy as the hotel bar after an open bar wedding the Hawks were sunk. Things started off poorly as David Booth opened the scoring off ugly play all around. Nick Leddy got his costly mistake out of the way early with a turnover at the Hawks' blue line, allowing Michal Repik to gain the puck and fire a shot. Not done yet, Leddy then rolled out the red carpet to the net for David Booth allowing him a straight shot at the juicy rebound left by Crawford. Before anyone accuses me of going to hard on Leddy... well.. he really fucked up here. He wasn't alone though. Crawford has to either stop that shot or get it to the corners... and Duncan Keith had let Marty Reasoner the same god damn clear path to the net.
The bonehead plays weren't over though - just halfway through the first Super Nintendo Hjalmers takes a dump in from the Panthers... looks up ice.. skates to the center of the Hawks zone, then turns his head and makes a blind pass to center ice that was easily picked off by the Panthers and brought in by Sergei Samsonov. The Hawks were flying around their zone with heads firmly up their asses for a few seconds and after a few bounces Clay Wilson scores his first goal ever off a shot that was likely deflected in off a sliding Brent Seabrook.
To close out the first - the Panthers got a lucky break as a shot or pass or something was deflected off a Hawk and bounced right to Marty Reasoner who found the puck on edge and fired it top shelf. Good bye Crawford.
The Hawks put up a valiant effort in the second and third as they absolutely dominated the play for the final forty minutes. Tomas Vokoun stood tall and despite two goals from Hossa and Kane the Hawks win streak comes to an end...
Bullet Train To Vegas:
- Well there goes Corey Crawford's streak as well. Now the big question is - who gets the start tomorrow in Tampa? While I don't think you can pin any of the goals on Crawford, he certainly didn't have his greatest game. He's had a great streak but he's looking tired. Turco on the other hand had a pretty solid game, not allowing a single goal and making some big saves. Give him the start tomorrow, split them again Sunday/Monday. There's no doubt Crawford is the number 1 - but he needs some rest.
- I don't know if it was a case of crappy ice but the Hawks passing was off from what we've seen in the past few games. The puck bounced over plenty of sticks (bad ice) but there were plenty of cross ice passes that were a foot or two behind their target.
- Both goals the Hawks scored were pretty. Campbell fed a puck between the net and defender to find a streaking Patrick Kane (not that kind of streaking) and Hossa set up a beautiful passing display that led to his goal. So that's nice..
- Yup... trap game. They happen. Get back to winning tomorrow.
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Love Turco's comments after the game...
“I’ve been around a while and I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a bigger lesson to be learned than I did tonight,” Turco said. “Whatever it is we thought to ourselves or did, changed after one period. It was one heck of a wake-up call. The way we played (the last two periods) was unreal, but sometimes it’s disappointing. Why can’t we play like that all the time?”
I’ve wondered that scenario far too often this season.
With that said, still hard to be mad when you outshoot your opponent 27-7 in the final two periods. Oh well, still in 4th. Now off to Tampa Bay for a matchup between two of the game’s best right now – Stamkos and Toews. Should be exciting.
Proud fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks and the 2010 Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers.
"You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself into one."
Fifth Feather pointed out a thought I had......Kopy over Hossa in the last minute?
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
they'd had too much spicy Cuban food
Confusion will be my epitaph.
The Cup is ours until someone takes it from us.
It needs more cowbell.
O/T (but same team)
I just saw this — it happened Sunday so I would’ve waited until the AM sausage but since I’ll likely be busy:
Stephen Weiss And The Incredible 5 Minute, 43 Second Shift
It was a funny blip on the shift chart:
http://www.timeonice.com/SC1011.html?GameNumber=20985&submit=Go
Brutal Chara hit on Pacioretty
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
thats text speak for "shake my head"
thats what the kids tell me
Nymphin' Ain't Easy Fly Fishing
I faithfully promise to add absolutely nothing of value to this conversation whatsoever.
by BigCSouthside on Mar 9, 2011 1:12 AM CST up reply actions
Pac-man chewed at the wrong time...
he jumped to try to avoid the hit at the wrong place. hope he’s okay
Second City Hockey, come for the Hockey.
Lighthouse Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay for the the injury report!
There is a problem with outliving your enemies, it usually means that you have outlived your friends as well...
by burpchelischili on Mar 9, 2011 5:35 AM CST up reply actions
we olden days 'stay at home' defensemen used to live for catching someone like that (or head down in open ice)
but yes, pretty brutal to watch.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
The Cup is ours until someone takes it from us.
It needs more cowbell.
Tough hit to take
It also came from an odd place where the hit occured IMO.
Oh and thanks for that smh, I had no fucking clue what that meant.
MEH
That’s all I can really say about this game. At least the Nucks helped us out by beating the Desert Dogs.
El Scorcho. Rock N Roll!
LOL
Chicago Blackhawks’ Marian Stalberg (81) scores against Florida Panthers goalie Tomas Vokoun (49) in the second period of an NHL hockey game at the Bank Atlantic Center, Tuesday, March 8, 2011, in Sunrise, Fla.
Without a merry band...He steals from the poor...And gives to the rich...Stupid bitch.
by hairhelmet on Mar 9, 2011 3:26 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Hossa is now so much man he has started to absorb the rest of the team
SCH's Most optimistic poster and head of Kool-Aid distribution
NM's Most thoughtful Hawks fan and closet Canucks fan
by stacie7 on Mar 9, 2011 4:45 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Hopefully
He isn’t Too Much Man, because they give penalties for that now
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
Best penalty ever.
Unless it was Zetterberg, then it would have been “Too Much Woman”
El Scorcho. Rock N Roll!
by AirTrafficAJ on Mar 9, 2011 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
Well, fuck
One is better than none. Let’s go.
by Scott13 on Mar 9, 2011 4:51 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Nice!
Second City Hockey, come for the Hockey.
Lighthouse Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay for the the injury report!
There is a problem with outliving your enemies, it usually means that you have outlived your friends as well...
by burpchelischili on Mar 9, 2011 5:36 AM CST up reply actions
Not trying to blame this game on one player, but it bears repeating
WTF has happened to Hammer this year? As rough as Leddy looks out there at times, I find myself scratching my head at Nik’s decisions just as much. I just don’t remember him being so fucking panicky with the puck last year, or the year before for that matter.
With only 12ish minutes of ice time last night, he’s either still hurting or Q is asking himself the same question I’m asking.
On the positive side of things, Campoli is just everywhere on the ice. I was on vacation last week so this is my first time seeing him play in a ‘Hawks sweater. I know he came up empty on a couple of prime scoring chances (who didn’t?), but I was encouraged to see him get those chances in the first place.
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Mar 9, 2011 7:55 AM CST reply actions
I've liked what I've seen of Campoli.
Quite a lot, actually
Confusion will be my epitaph.
The Cup is ours until someone takes it from us.
It needs more cowbell.
Like the way Camper
jumped in on the rush for the Kane goal, creating space for 51
What a shitty start coming off the beach sunburned!
Crow had “bad body language” from the start, hope this game don’t fuck with his mind too much! Do we just go with Turco tonight?
Leddy? well he played like a scared rookie last night! A lesson learned I hope!
Kop got to shoot that puck instead of passing, WTF!
Outside of the first 20 minutes, what a display of pressure by the Hawks, Plenty of great chances and a few key whiffs!
Bad Ice, Tallon revenge and Vokoun had a four leaf clover up his ass!
Lets shake it off and get at it tonight!
I'm just curious. I saw you shuffling your chips with your right hand. Can you do that with both hands?
by thepuckstopshere31 on Mar 9, 2011 8:09 AM CST reply actions
That first period was bad
but they did rally fairly well
Leddy, Sharp, Toews (to his standards) all had pretty shitty games the 3rd line was a bit off, the other 5 guys in the back had shakey moments, though Campbell the least. Meh, was bound to happen at some point in time.
Luckily it was a team where they were able to recover, can take some positives and hopefully roll into Tampa tonight looking for blood.
Huge positives I thought were Bolly and Hoss looking like they are starting to develop some chemistry, that pass and shot were glorious… and Kaner is looking like a boss on a consistent basis, good for him. Oh and some nice saves from Turco, though he had happy feet at times he is way better with no one standing in front of him which could be problematic tonight.
Yeah, Bolly and Hossa are looking better together
I’m still more concerned about the current 3rd line. Not sure the Hawks can go far using the 2nd line as their checking line and protecting the 2 bottom lines, but I guess each theory (top heavy vs spread out) has its pros and cons
I AM NOT NEUROTIC! I'm just worried that I might be.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Mar 9, 2011 8:22 AM CST up reply actions
I'm hoping Frolik takes Bickell's place soon.
El Scorcho. Rock N Roll!
by AirTrafficAJ on Mar 9, 2011 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
That is what I was thinking
and he certainly belongs there but I suspect Q is trying to find a way to get some talent on the third line. Brower, Dowell and Bickel are just role players. They need a leader.
First goal was on #2
Killion – Why I agree with a lot of your assessment, I must point one thing out that I’m seeing a little to often lately. Keith is skating towards Leddy and decides to give him the hot potato at the last second. I can’t read minds but I have to think Leddy was thinking “What the hell are you thinking Duncs?” There were two Panther fowards skating full speed ahead at Leddy when Keith coughed it up. That goal was a direct result of a terrible decision by Keith.
I’m still not sure how that second goal got by Seabs and Hjarlmarrson, let alone Crawford. It seemed like a really weak shot.
All and all though, I’d call this a good loss – the pressure we exerted in the last two periods was relentless. The Panthers had more than a little luck on their side and Vokoun was clearly the #1 star.
Yup, Keith really fucked Leddy there
First off, Keith was way too close to Leddy to make that pass. Second, it was a bad pass that Leddy couldn’t adjust to because of the short distance. Leddy peeled off to cover Booth who was streaking toward the net, but because the Hawks were on a line change and Hossa gets screened coming off the bench, no forward covers the guy with the puck. Leddy turns just as Repik is releasing the initial shot, so there’s nothing he can do to block it. He never had a chance to get inside position on Booth either. If he had tried, he would’ve got called for interference.
Juicy rebound by Crow. Goal.
Leddy is quickly becoming last year’s Sopel. Anytime he’s on the ice for a goal against, he’s to blame.
I AM NOT NEUROTIC! I'm just worried that I might be.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Mar 9, 2011 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
There's some truth to that..
Keith was far from blameless on the play. However if Leddy continues back with the puck instead of trying to stop and turn he can probably control the puck instead of losing it…
just a shitty play all around
Second City Hockey
June 9, 2010
I considered that too
That would’ve been the preferred option since they were both coming back to the Hawks’ zone. Leddy could’ve then rung it around the boards. But he’s prepared for a pass to his forehand. Keith puts the puck slightly behind him and Leddy doesn’t have a chance to switch to the backhand, so he can’t control it and has to stop and is pinned. Keith has to go elsewhere with that pass. Just a bad decision at a bad time.
Not saying Leddy doesn’t make his share of young rookie mistakes, but I’m gonna give him a pass there.
/believe it or not, bad pun not intended
I AM NOT NEUROTIC! I'm just worried that I might be.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Mar 9, 2011 9:08 AM CST up reply actions
Leddy's mistake was earlier
Keith was backing into his own zone with the puck on the right hand side. I thought he expected Leddy to skate over to the left d-spot, but instead he backed against the right boards.
Keith shoulda moved the puck in the other direction anyway, but the puck did hit Leddy on the stick, if awkwardly. I thought he coulda chipped it ahead.
Pretty lousy play all around.
We like our people!
Bickell
I wanted to mention one more thing – is it just me or does anyone else feel Brouwer or Stalberg or Frolick should be on our second line. I realize Stalberg looks to be more comfortable on right wing, but he deserves a promotion.
Bickell just didn’t seem to do much last night and appeared slow our there getting to loose pucks.
Should be Brouwer IMO
Stalberg still makes too many dog house mistakes, so let’s get that out of the way.
Frolik so far is more defensively responsible and better on the forecheck than Bickell. He also has some speed and adds scoring punch. It’s likely a case of the good of the team is greater than one player/spot. Frolik helps the 3rd line more than Bickell would, since Brouwer and Bickell are similar, and the 2nd line needs someone to dig in the corners.
Maybe Q prefers Brouwer’s experience on the 3rd line? Dunno, but Bickell and Brouwer have both been invisible to my eyes. Why not flip them?
I AM NOT NEUROTIC! I'm just worried that I might be.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Mar 9, 2011 9:23 AM CST up reply actions
Not just you.
That combed over toothless wonder seems pretty damned useless. Would love Morin to be healthy and playing up and Bickell sent down to get a hair cut, dental work and then traded.
Whoa
Maybe we’re going overboard here.
I personally felt Bickell and Brouwer have been invisible, but Bickell actually has 5 points and is a +3 over his last 4 games. 16 goals, 32 points and a +12 for the season for a minimum wage player who spent most of his time on the 3rd line facing the highest QualComp in the league, who’s gonna replace that kind of production for $500k? The guy has been by far the best bargain of the season.
I’m more concerned with Brouwer’s invisibility on the 3rd line. Bickell had proven he could produce there. Maybe it had a lot to do with Bolland being at center and that is why Q has him with Bolland on the 2nd line. Again, our 2nd line has been our checking line and they have been doing a good job both ways.
I AM NOT NEUROTIC! I'm just worried that I might be.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Mar 9, 2011 9:42 AM CST up reply actions
36 pts, not 32
I AM NOT NEUROTIC! I'm just worried that I might be.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Mar 9, 2011 9:43 AM CST up reply actions
step it up a notch
I’m not quite as tough on Crazy Googenheimer as you, but he just didn’t seem to be skating with any sense of urgency from my, admittedly, limited observation.
Funny quote from Hoss after the game
He mentioned the first period “as the worst period we’ve played all year.” Not even close, Hoss. And I don’t know what’s up with Jammer and Keith this year – their minds at times seem to be elsewhere. Really silly mental mistakes that wind up costing the team big in the end.
strange
Usually after a Hawks loss I’m a little depressed and grumpy. Last night, I felt great. Yeah we lost, yeah we came out flat, but holy shit. From about 12 minutes left in the second to the end of the game that was probably the most dominating hockey I have ever seen- well at least in a long time. They unleashed the dogs and it was amazing to watch.
Hat tip to the goalie move on to the next game.
by Skags on Mar 9, 2011 8:32 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I agree with you that they really tried to tie it up and get back
Give Vokoun credit for standing tall. However I can’t get passed why we didn’t just start off that way and play 60 mins. Lets get back at it tonight. I think it would sting a little more if we weren’t playing tonight!
Lets go Hawks!
Goofy
If you ain’t Grumpy you must be Goofy.
JK – totally agree with you about the reaction to the loss. I believe I even saw the kitchen sink being tossed at Vokoun at the end. If Sharp, Dowell, Campbell or Campoli get a little lucky we’d be playing for 10 tonight. i liked the way the hawk defensemen got into the offensive flow.
Turco, although not tested to any great extent, looked ready to contribute. He made a few nice passes to get the O in motion.
couple icings outta Marty too
and, i thought, some synch issues. he’s the back-up now, and should mostly stay at home.
We like our people!
agreed on the back up
I just thought he brought some positive energy out there. I am in no way, shape or form suggesting he split time with #50. He’s a more than adequate back up though. He made a nice play forcing the Panther to shoot wide on the breakaway.
Actually, I think he should go tonight – give Corey a break. i’d imagine playing goal tender has to be mentally draining night in and night out. Never hurts to recharge the batteries.
Yeah turco came out ready to play
And it showed. He’s the backup, yes, but as you say he has good energy and good puck handling skills.
I think he should get the nod tonight also, and give Crow a little more time to rest, especially with a lot of the bigger games coming up
WILDCARD BITCHES!
by justforkicks on Mar 9, 2011 11:31 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah turco came out ready to play
And it showed. He’s the backup, yes, but as you say he has good energy and good puck handling skills.
I think he should get the nod tonight also, and give Crow a little more time to rest, especially with a lot of the bigger games coming up
WILDCARD BITCHES!
by justforkicks on Mar 9, 2011 11:31 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I tend to think if stick handling is a big strength
He should be able to use it BUT need to practice and get in synch with the team.
WILDCARD BITCHES!
by justforkicks on Mar 9, 2011 11:18 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Sure they dominated,
the Panthers absolutely suck, which is why this game is so infuriating. There is no way in god’s green earth the Hawks should have spotted these guys 3 goals, other than a complete and utter shitstorm of stupid and lazy play. Slamming the barn door closed with authority is not impressive if the horse has already galloped far down the lane.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
there are other horses...
the barn door was closed with great authority. Next game…
Second City Hockey, come for the Hockey.
Lighthouse Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay for the the injury report!
There is a problem with outliving your enemies, it usually means that you have outlived your friends as well...
by burpchelischili on Mar 9, 2011 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
Trap Game
While the Hawks dominated in the 3rd, they didn’t score because they started skating the puck in rather than dumping it. This still led to shots, but most were from the outside and didn’t set up plays like the glorious Hossa goal.
I worry their 3rd period play gives them the wrong idea. Even at 3-2 they got lazy and the theme remains—doing what they want to do rather than what needs to be done to win games.
doing what they want to do rather than what needs to be done to win games
I don’t understand this statement. What’s the wrong idea they’re getting? Aside from scoring more goals, what should they have done after it was 3-2? They looked to be on a 20 min PP.
I AM NOT NEUROTIC! I'm just worried that I might be.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Mar 9, 2011 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
The wrong idea being Vokoun beat them.
2nd period they were dumping and chasing in transition, because they’d been slowed down by the trap in the 1st. This strategy got them back in the game.
3rd period, they felt confident at 3-2, and went back to a carry the puck into the zone (which they prefer) but which doesn’t work as well with the 3 guys back FL was using all night. So you had guys like Seabs (at least once) trying to dance into the zone, which led to lower quality chances in transition. FL (read, Vokoun) stood up to sustained in zone pressure all night.
My point being: good transitions (dumping the puck) led to goals in the 2nd. Business as usual transitions=no goals in 3rd
You have a point
but at the same time, the Hossa goal happened because he carried the puck in. He bought the blue line, fed it deep to Bicks who moved it over to Bolland who fed it back to Hossa in the slot for a one timer.
So while I generally agree with you that the Hawks are more productive when they dump-chase-hustle, it’s not that carrying the puck in was completely ineffective.
Blueline or not
Hossa dumped it in from 5ft inside the blueline, made three FL defenders turn around and that set up the goal.
I though 2nd and 3rd period they came out ready to kill
To my untrained eye I saw them swarming the net and staying consistently in the panthers zone – I by no means saw them being lazy, but rather doing what they had to, to win the game. I’m pretty confident in the results they’ll get if they continue playing at the pace of the 2nd and 3rd periods against other teams.
WILDCARD BITCHES!
by justforkicks on Mar 9, 2011 11:22 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Kaner and Nights in Miami...
Given the circumstances (Miami, days/nights off, sunshine, etc) I though Kaner played a solid game. Even not given the circumstances, i thought he was flying and up for the game
by NesterenkosGhost on Mar 9, 2011 8:52 AM CST reply actions
Kaner has been playing fuck you hockey
Since the deadspin fiasco. So I’m not really surprised at his play last night, I thought he had the best game of the first line actually. Hossa and Kane were on fire last night IMO (after the 1st)
WILDCARD BITCHES!
by justforkicks on Mar 9, 2011 11:26 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Definitely suprised by Kaner...
Thought he would have been too hung over last night or still drunk, but the kid played pretty well. I missed most of the first period but I thought Campbell looked shaky late, lots of turnovers and restarts in the defensive zone. Campoli must have had atleast 4 chances to bury one, too bad he didn’t. Optimistic after a loss isn’t a terrible thing but it isn’t as good as a win. Need to come out better and determine their own destiny instead of leaving it to scoreboard watching at the end of the season, get the wins now so you can focus on going deep in the playoffs
Kaner has been legit since
that hoopla / bullshit / whatever /alleged nonsense about the 2 missed practices hung over
he has to be top 3 best passers in the NHL, especially when bringing his A game like he has been recently
1st goal
was all Crow. Was there a turnover? Yes. But the shot was right at him and he gave up the juicy rebound right in front. That’s a goal probably 80% of the time, no matter who’s playing D.
The next two? Well, they’re the type of goals he’s been giving up all year, frankly. He makes some great saves at times, and is generally solid. But when the team in front of him is not playing particularly well, you can’t really count on Crawford to win the game for you; he’s just not that kind of goalie.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
Would not the same hold true for Turco?
Second City Hockey, come for the Hockey.
Lighthouse Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay for the the injury report!
There is a problem with outliving your enemies, it usually means that you have outlived your friends as well...
by burpchelischili on Mar 9, 2011 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
Yes.
Which is why I do not expect a repeat Cup. That said, Scum has proved that you do not need a game-changing goalie to win a Cup, only a competent goalie, so I don’t think we should be in any hurry to make a huge change at the position.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
Yeah, there was that other team too
I AM NOT NEUROTIC! I'm just worried that I might be.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Mar 9, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
Can't agree with this.
But when the team in front of him is not playing particularly well, you can’t really count on Crawford to win the game for you
I think Crawford has done just that several times this season, this past Saturday’s third period against Toronto being the most recent example. Also, I think we tend to forget that Crow’s a rookie goaltender in this league and he’s going to have some WTF moments. Overall his performance so far has been nothing short of remarkable.
Going back to your statement, I think you could say the same about almost any goalie in the league. Put a team playing shitty hockey in front of him and they’re going to win precious few games. It’ll happen occasionally, but no goalie is going to get many wins playing behind an underperforming team.
I just don’t think you can expect any goalie to bail out the team for a win consistently every time the team decides to mail it in.
"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance."
- Laurence J. Peter
I cannot even begin to count
The number of times Crawford has kept us alive in games when the team defense was playing poorly in front of him. He’s had more than his fair share of “goalie wins”. Exactly where he’d be ranked against other goaltenders this year is something to argue about, but he’s at least among the top 10 to top 12 starters in the league this year and has been remarkably consistent. It’s frightening to think where this team would be without him this year.
by Flavius on Mar 9, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What I meant
is that you will never see Crow make a bunch of highlight-reel saves. He is a sound positional goaltender, which is absolutely great — and occasionally will make AN amazing save. He’s kept the team in games by being in the right place at the right time, not by standing on his head. There are goalies in the league, however, that can and do regularly win games regardless of what the team is doing in front of them.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
like...
Vokoun?
Without a merry band...He steals from the poor...And gives to the rich...Stupid bitch.
I think we also need to accept some of the responsibility.
After the shitty first period, we just counldn’t get a proper second period thread timely running. So, we started off the second period in the same thread and the Hawks still couldn’t score. Then the new thread came up and bang-zoom, two quick goals and a continuing offensive pounding.
After that sort of display by the second period thread, a few of us suggested we stay there. But no, a thrid period thread came up. We all moved over and could not score again. I think we have to consider that our thread situation may be effecting the outcome of the games.

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