Who plays 2C next year?
Wondering what your thoughts are on who will play 2C for the Blackhawks next season?
Patrick Sharp?
Michael Frolik?
Dave Bolland?
Someone else -- currently on the roster OR not?
If you have a free agent in mind, who should it be?
Playing with lines...seems like maybe Frolik. More cut out for a scoring role than Bolland?
Sharp is the best of the group, but he seems to be asked to do a lot (PP, PK) that perhaps it would be best to not have him taking FOs all the time, too.
VOTE in the poll below.
| Troy Brouwer | JonathanToews | Patrick Kane |
| Patrick Sharp | Michael Frolik | Marian Hossa |
| Bryan Bickell | Dave Bolland | Viktor Stalberg |
36 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
we're basically tired of debating this, so that's why there aren't many votes
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Jun 13, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
not to mention, there's no option for a trade
which I’m assuming would fall under “free agent”
Second City Hockey
I'm Abe Froman, and I approve this message.
consensus seemed to be between Sharp or a free agent/trade
most would prefer Bolland to stay on the 3rd line and Frolik on the wing
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Jun 14, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
A meaningful trade is so
unlikely with the ‘Hawks cap situation and the FA class is limited, so my guess will be Frolik if nothing more than the teams’ attempt to get Sharpie back at LW.
There certainly would be more options to throw around if Madden or Drury came along though.
Just win the next game...!
is there any evidence
to even suggest the frolik is capable to fill in at #2?
He actually did ok there IMO
when both Sharp and Bolly were out and he had to fill in. But that’s definitely a less-than-ideal fit because he is NOT a natural center.
by FrankStallone on Jun 13, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
A little but not a whole helluva lot
My comment is based mostly on elimination process.
In an effort to get Sharp to LW, keep Bolland centering a checking line, the very limited cap space coupled with a weak C UFA class, the ’Hawks seem to me they are going to try hard to get Frolik at centre.
Now adding Madden for instance and hoping Dowell can up the ante would really help with depth and a fallback should Frolik can’t handle it.
Just win the next game...!
I would like to see
Alex Tanguay playing LW with Toews and Kane, Brooks Laich centering Sharp and Hossa, Bolland centering Lord Byron and Frolik, and Konopka centering Smith and Dowell…
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose : it's how drunk you get.
I don't know if this is possible
But according to CapGeek we’d be 300k over if we do this and keep our Dmen as is.
http://www.capgeek.com/cap_calculator/index.php?teamId=11
This however is very possible:
FORWARDS
Alex Tanguay ($1.700m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m)
Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Brooks Laich ($2.066m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Michael Frolik ($1.275m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Bryan Bickell ($0.541m)
Ben Smith ($0.812m) / Ryan Johnson ($0.500m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m)
DEFENSEMEN
Duncan Keith ($5.538m) / Nick Leddy ($1.116m)
Brent Seabrook ($5.800m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
Brian Campbell ($7.142m) / Jassen Cullimore ($0.500m)
GOALTENDERS
Corey Crawford ($2.666m) / Alexander Salak ($0.612m)
3 things in life I care about
Colts, Sox, and Hawks.
Lifetime banners: '05, '07, '10
I know its the fourth line, but no thanks to Ryan Johnson
We would be better served converting him into fossil fuel at this point, IMO
$100k
Is the difference between Johnson and Konopka, and with Laich being able to take PK faceoffs, the only time Johnson would need to come in is if we need a D-zone faceoff against a 2nd or 3rd line, or to throw him out there against the 4th to save some energy. Also Johnson is an RFA this year, so all we’d have to do is re-up his $500k.
3 things in life I care about
Sox, Colts, and Hawks.
Lifetime banners: '05, '07, '10
A couple of glaring problems
First of all, a 20 man roster is entirely infeasible. I guarantee that the ‘Hawks have 22 or 23 on their roster leaving 2-3 healthy scratches each game. No one in the NHL has just a 20-man roster, the ’Hawks aren’t about to try to start that trend. Secondly, you’re using this year’s cap number of $59.4 million, next season the cap should be up around $63 million. Third of all, you’re assuming that neither Alex Tanguay nor Brooks Laich would command a raise from what they made this year. Tanguay will probably look for a little more, maybe around $2 mil, and it’s going to take at least $3 mil to pry Laich away from Washington. And last but not least Jassen Cullimore is NOT an NHL defenseman, if the ‘Hawks don’t otherwise acquire a physical stay-at-home defender they will without a doubt bring back RFA Chris Campoli, as they should considering that Cullimore is not a real option.
by FrankStallone on Jun 14, 2011 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Also, Ryan Johnson is UFA not RFA
35-year-olds are not RFA’s. But that means that you’re right, the ‘Hawks could keep him for the league minimum $500K if that’s what the ‘Hawks and Johnson both wanted. If he were RFA he’d command an automatic raise in a qualifying offer, at his salary level a qualifying offer would be 110% of his previous salary so the ‘Hawks would have to offer him $550K. As I said though it’s not an issue because he’s UFA, not RFA, so there’s no such thing as a qualifying offer for him.
by FrankStallone on Jun 14, 2011 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I was thinking of something along the lines of:
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Alex Tanguay ($1.850m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m)
Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Brooks Laich ($3.000m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Bryan Bickell ($0.541m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Michael Frolik ($1.500m)
Ben Smith ($0.812m) / Zenon Konopka ($0.700m) / Jake Dowell ($0.600m)
Alexandre Giroux ($0.550m) / Ryan Johnson ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Duncan Keith ($5.538m) / Brent Seabrook ($5.800m)
Brian Campbell ($7.142m) / Jason Strudwick ($0.875m)
Nick Leddy ($1.116m) / Chris Campoli ($1.550m)
Jason Garrison ($0.675m)
GOALTENDERS
Corey Crawford ($2.666m) / Alexander Salak ($0.612m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,732,003; BONUSES: $545,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $517,997
Buy out Scott for $250,000.
Trade Hjarlmarsson to Florida for Jason Garrison and a draft pick.
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose : it's how drunk you get.
I'm thinking something more like this
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Jeremy Morin ($0.886m) / Jason Arnott ($4.500m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m)
Michael Frolik ($1.275m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Bryan Bickell ($0.541m)
Ben Smith ($0.812m) / Zenon Konopka ($0.700m) / Alexandre Giroux ($0.550m)
Jake Dowell ($0.525m)
DEFENSEMEN
Duncan Keith ($5.538m) / Nick Leddy ($1.116m)
Brent Seabrook ($5.800m) / Chris Campoli ($1.400m)
Brian Campbell ($7.142m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
John Scott ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
Corey Crawford ($2.666m) / Alexander Salak ($0.612m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $63,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,230,504; BONUSES: $780,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $549,496
by FrankStallone on Jun 14, 2011 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions
That was Arnott's cap hit on his previous contract
I didn’t bother to change it because I don’t really know what his market value is. Regardless, IMO he’s the best UFA who’s natural position is center not named Brad Richards, and unlike Richards signing him isn’t entirely out of the question. My problem with some of the other suggestions, like Brooks Laich, is that we’re talking about guys who are not natural centers. Don’t get me wrong, I like Laich and would absolutely not object to seeing him wearing an Indian head on his chest, but he’s no more a natural center than Sharp and what’s the point in bringing in someone from the outside to center the 2nd line if he’s not going to be any better at it than what we’ve already got on the roster?
by FrankStallone on Jun 14, 2011 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Strudwick should have been on the 3rd pairing and
I used Strudwick but, you could bring back Jordan Hendry or sign any other UFA D-man in that salary range to be the 6/7 guy with Garrison:
Ruslan Salei – 750K, David Hale – 675K, Alexander Sulzer – 700K, Jay Harrison – 500K, Derek Meech – 500K, Clay Wilson – 500K, Rob Davison – 500K, Jay Leach – 500K…
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose : it's how drunk you get.
i'm coming around on being able to live with Sharp here
tho i think just an ok guy (not a “true #2 center”, but a decent veteran) could make hay between Sharp and Hossa.’
My thinking on Sharp: Keslord is everybody’s drool-worthy prototype #2.
But if I had one game I had to win (like tomorrow), I think I’d rather have Sharp.
We like our people!
My FanPost within a FanPost, wrapped up in an enigma
My issues with each of the suggested lineups (top two FW lines)
Diomedes7: Frolik is in no universe (that I want to live in) the solution. I’m assuming you might not follow the Hawks too closely, so thanks for at least getting the ball rolling. The Hawks have had this problem for a few years, so I think they can continue to be successful with a pseudo-2C, but Frolik appears to not even be that. Plus, he was successful on the 3rd line and lacks the size and/or playmaking ability the Hawks ideally need to add there.
Kyle321N and snibbodmot: I’ve thought about Tanguay too, but he’s not very big and not physical at all. Ideally not the solution to take some pressure off of Toews and Kane. He had success this year next to Iggy, but it sounds like he’d like to stay in Calgary. He’d also have to play on the top 2 lines, so if Sharp stayed at LW, the Hawks would have no PWs on the top lines. Not good. Even if Sharp was the 2C, I don’t like the dynamic of the top lines. Defense is lacking in 3 of 6 spots.
I would love to see Laich at 2C. He’s got size, can be somewhat physical and is coming into his own. The big question is, does Washington want to let him go? If they lose him, they’re in the same boat as the Hawks, with a very limited FA pool.
And enough everyone with this talk that he’s not a true center. He’s taken between 500-700 draws every season except for one (5 of 6 seasons) and his FO% has consistently been around 50%. It would be a luxury to have him at C with another competent FO man in Sharp at his wing. I think Brooks is the best solution IMO, but getting him – and he’s gonna want at least $3M like snibbodmot wrote – is going to be the main issue.
FrankStallone: I like the thinking on Morin. He’s proven he can play at every level so far, but he’s still very young (just turned 20) and has some filling out to do. If he has a good training camp and his brain’s not still fried, 2nd line LW may be the best fit for him. Unfortunately for that solution, Q is magically going to have to like rookies who he typically makes earn their stripes on the bottom lines.
No thanks to Arnott. Sure, he’s big – actually, that’s all I got. He never survives a full season, he’s old and has been declining rapidly over the past few years, and is getting wildly inconsistent at the dot (and he’s never been exceptional there anyhow). No way he gets $4.5M and I don’t even think he’d be a good pickup at $2.5M. Hawks don’t need two injury-prone centers on the 2nd and 3rd lines.
IMO none of these solutions address the needs of the team – a more permanent 2C and a PF on the 1st or 2nd line.
So there’s probably three ways the Hawks could go:
Option 1: Sharp moves to 2C
In this scenario, Hawks likely keep and slot Brouwer at 1 or 2 LW and pick up an establish PW. With the way he’s been handled over past two seasons, I’m not sure they go this route unless no other options exist. And they definitely wouldn’t slot Morin and Brouwer to fill those roles together. Way too many question marks.
Regardless, if they can re-sign him around $1.5M, TBrouwer is a great guy to have on the roster. VERSATILE!
Option 2: Sharp stays at wing
With an established LW in Sharp, Hawks could chose to go with bodies already in the system at 2nd line LW and concentrate on 2C. The big issue is finding one. Aside from Laich via free agency, they’d have to trade assets and then my guess is as good as anyone’s since anything could happen.
But what if the Hawks had someone already in the system? Someone who was a true center, had experience at 2C, and even makes 2C money. Does this player exist??
I think it’s very likely the Hawks move Bolland to 2C, pickup a cheaper 3C (and possibly a big experienced 4C) and spend the money on a PF. They’ll keep Brouwer at the right price and start him off on the 4th line.This option frees up more cash to fill in a lot more holes without dumping a core member or overpaying for a temp solution. Hawks are a two-way, “defense produces offense” team. This option solidifies all lines as two-way threats.
So the question for me is, who are the PF and 3C? The 2C for the situation that currently exists has been there all along.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 15, 2011 11:06 AM CDT reply actions
i've stated
that Sharp at 2C is not my ideal solution, but I think it’s better than Bolland at 2C.
the Bolland 2C suggextion leaves the Hawks top-heavy; part of what makes them hard to play against is having three legitimate NHL lines.
Also, Frolik and (especially) Bickell appear to have flourished alongside Bolland. I fear if you put a “guy” in there, the Hawks suffer a drop-off from Fro and Bick.
We like our people!
by cliffkoroll on Jun 15, 2011 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
You may have a point about being top-heavy
but with the money available, the Hawks should have a very good 4th line next season. The only change on the 3rd line would be Bolland and if a guy like say, um, er, Reasoner (jumping on the Fifth Feather bandwagon here) could be signed at a fair price, then it might be a workable solution.
I do like the dynamic of Bickell and Frolik alongside Bolland, but if they are who I think they are, they should be successful with a different center too. Plus, there’s nothing wrong with playing 2’s vs 1’s or 2’s when necessary.
I also understand Frank’s argument about Arnott, but his production has been steadily dropping along with missing about 20 games per season (you can’t use a 10 yr avg of games per season to justify a 37 yr old’s waning durability). I like Arnott and wouldn’t freak out if the Hawks signed Arnott for around $2.5M, but I’d have my concerns about what’s left in the tank.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 16, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I get what you're saying
but I think you’re over-estimating how injury-prone Arnott actually is. Yes he’s never played all 82 games in a season, but he played 73 games this season and the last time he played fewer than 60 was when he played 54 in 2000-‘01. Over the last 10 seasons he’s averaged playing in 70 games per season. He’ll be 37 years old a week into the season and is probably on his last legs, which means you’re in all likelihood right that he won’t command anything like the $4.5 million cap hit of his 5 year contract that officially comes to an end on July 1. If he was willing to sign with the ‘Hawks for 1 year or even 2 at a cap hit around $2 – $2.5 million I’d absolutely be happy with it as that would INSTANTLY make the ’Hawks as strong up the middle as any other team in the league.
by FrankStallone on Jun 15, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
what about...?
Juice Jokinen at 2C
not ideal, but CAR had some success playing him w/ Ruutu and Skinner
his contract was $1.7M
he’s earned a raise, but not a break the bank one
Cap
Under the current CBA, if the NHL’s gross revenues meet or exceed $2.1 billion, the salary cap goes up an automatic 5%. It can go higher at the league’s discretion of the revenue exceeds that number.
Figure the cap will be at $62,370,000, unless the new TV deal brings more windfall.
That being said, unless a “core” player is traded, or all of the UFA/RFAs they have agree to homer discounts/static pay, no free agent second line center will be signed. Gonna need like $2.5-3MM to make that happen for a Brooks Laich.
I think Brouwer and Johnson gone at a minimum is how you create cap space for a FA.
Toews/Kane/Sharp 16.5MM
FA/Hossa/Frolik 7MM + FA
Bolland/Bickell/Smith 4.73MM
Madden/Kopecky/Stalberg 3MM
Keith/Seabrook 11.34MM
Campbell/Hammer 10.65MM
Campoli/Leddy/Scott/Hendry (if room) 2.61MM
Crawford/Salak 3.27MM
Assumes 1.75 for Frolik, 1.5 for Kopy, 700K for Madden (per Jesse Rogers’ blog), Hendry at 600K, Campoli at 1.5, and Stalberg at 800K
Leaves $3.27MM with 22 players. Figure $2.5MM at best for a FA center to leave some room.
by Return of the Roar on Jun 15, 2011 1:22 PM CDT reply actions
you'd rather have Kopy at 1.5 than Brouwer?
I’m hoping Brouwer isn’t too far out of that price range.
Second City Hockey
I'm Abe Froman, and I approve this message.
At 1.5...
I’d take Brouwer – as a bottom six guy. I just don’t think he/his agent will take less than $2MM. The price and where he plays will determine if he stays.
He is NOT a top six forward – on this team – yet. As such, he should only get bottom six money. His game is still too one dimensional and offensively inconsistent.
Put him on the top line with Kane and Toews and Sharp goes from 40 goals to 20 as a center on the second line. Put him on the bottom six and you have an outstanding role player – exactly what this team needs now – at the right price.
by Return of the Roar on Jun 17, 2011 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree,
I seem to remember that Ladd, Madden and Brouwer were very dominant as a checking line…and Brouwer seemed very comfortable in that role.
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose : it's how drunk you get.
Put him on the bottom six and you have an outstanding role player
I’d love to see that happen, but so far Brouwer has disappeared in a bottom 6 role.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 17, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions

by 


























