Viewing LeBron
by SamFels on Jun 13, 2011 10:47 AM CDT
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PrintThis is a piece I wrote for NBC last week, that I've updated and I feel fits on a slow news day with the Mavs being crowned champs.
Unlike years past, I've been fascinated by this NBA season.
Usually, hockey fans try and shun our winter sport compatriot. But you couldn't help pay attention this year. With "The Decision," and the Bulls' spectacular and entertaining play, a lot of us got swept up. And most of this was stormed up, if that's even a term, by LeBron James heading to Miami. Whether you were on board, disgusted, didn't care, you had to see how it would turn out, and how the Bulls would respond to being shunned. It's been wonderful television.
I'm sure most hockey fans were turned off by the bombast of James's free agency. That's what a lot of hockey fans get turned off by in basketball. Some will tell you that comes with an undercurrent of racism, and I don't doubt for a small, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing minority that's probably true. But for a lot of us, the appeal of hockey is the "complete team" aspect. That is, every player takes his shift and then must leave the ice and leave it to his teammates to take theirs. Everyone is involved.
Basketball is the complete opposite. Basketball fans love to see a guy want to and become "The Man." It has become far more ingrained in the sport the past few years. They love to point to Michael Jordan, the irony being that MJ didn't become the champion he is today until he got way above average teammates (including the second best player in the league in Scottie Pippen) and learned to defer to them at times, to trust them at times. But in the NBA, a championship always seems to be a validation of one star's career, be it MJ, Kobe, Shaq, and now either Dirk Nowitzki and Lebron James. Whereas a Stanley Cup is a validation of a team. It wasn't Jonathan Toews or Patrick Kane winning last year, it was the Hawks. Neither one is wrong, it's just a delineation.
I don't know where it springs from, perhaps the difference from a hip-hop culture and a....well, whatever they listen to in the Canadian hinterlands (I pray it's a lot of Rush, but probably more country than I want to admit). A lot of hip-hop music and culture is the glorification in oneself. Again, nothing wrong with that, I love a lot of hip-hop. You've seen it creep into the NBA game itself, with far more isolation plays, the celebrations, the building of teams around "a star". It's also partly how the league has been marketed for decades now.
While the style of Lebron's fleeing to Miami was distasteful, the actual logistics of it are something we hockey fans have seen for a while now. Recent hockey history is littered with players who sacrificed numbers and glory to win a championship, which is at least the claim Lebron made (though I'm sure those South Beach nightclubs played some part, and if I were a chiseled 6-8, 275 with more millions than I knew what to do with, I doubt I'd resist the siren song either). Detroit for years before the lockout benefited from star players coming merely to fit in. Paul Kariya and Teemu Selanne tried this in Colorado, though it didn't work. Hawks fans will tell you that they look forward to a multitude of players giving up some dollars and stats to play with the core here that could give them a chance to win. We see no problem with this.
The uproar about James's disappearance these past two games, though I get it, is probably something that would never happen in hockey, or not to this extent. After all, Jonathan Toews won a Conn Smythe, and he didn't score a goal after the second round. You ever hear about that? What if the Heat had taken the last two and won the title, with Lebron just playing his all around game that's "merely" a triple-double? Do you doubt for a second that some, if not a lot, would claim it's not a "true" title for him? Yet nary a word was said about Toews (not that it should have been, he played well during the Final, just didn't score). And if the Canucks were to go on and win, but the Sedins remain off with Harvey the Rabbit, will anyone other than else claim it's "tainted"? Unlikely.
Again, neither approach is wrong. But this individual confirmation of greatness and team confirmation is one of the big differences between the sports and those who follow it. We'll always find it a little odd.
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you hit it on the spot
the sports are just so markedly different. one emphasizes, and thrives, on pure teamwork and sacrificing for the greater good.
the other relies more heavily on the individual, and with the ups and downs of its praise fleeting game to game.
both sports exhibit hints of the characteristic that the other embodies, but on an overall level they are like night and day.
I think that's why a lot of Hawks fans tuned into the Bulls this year
They were definitely a team that featured one star, but they played team-oriented ball. The same can be said of the Mavs, which is why it was so nice to see them win.
by DitkaStache on Jun 13, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
There is no altruism in basketball!
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 13, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
OTOH
the NBA has long been considered a “player’s league”- I’d hazard to guess a greater share of team revenue ends up in the hands of the “workers” than in other sports.
We like our people!
my favorite quote about LeBron so far
“Lebron must be a horrible human being if Americans will root for a billionaire and a German over him” — Keith Law
I also have to say that was such a lame celebration last night. For a minute I wasn’t even sure if the Mavs had actually won the title. Seemed more like a celebration of clinching the division title that everyone knew would happen.
SCH's resident 8 year old
Lame celebration? - Yes!
Not nearly as spectacular as when Vancouver defeated the Sharks, Preds, or Hawks. (sigh)
My Father's name is Jack, and my Mother's name is Daniels...
LeBron's quote after the game reminded me of Charlie Sheen..
Talking about how all the little people have to go back to their miserable middle class lives the next day….or at least I think that was implied.
….that fucking Conn Smythe cost us a good hockey player. I really wish Keith would have gotten it instead.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
LeBron's quote
"All the people that was rooting on me to fail, at the end of the day they have to wake up tomorrow and have the same life that they had before they woke up today," James said. "They have the same personal problems they had today. I’m going to continue to live the way I want to live and continue to do the things that I want to do with me and my family and be happy with that.
"They can get a few days or a few months or whatever the case may be on being happy about not only myself, but the Miami Heat not accomplishing their goal. But they have to get back to the real world at some point."
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Jun 13, 2011 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
A comment I read
under one of the stories about those remarks…I felt this was pretty damn accurate:
And I don’t feel bad for him, he calls himself “The Chosen One”, he’s the one that got it tattooed on his arms. He blamed all the hard losses in Cleveland on his poor teammates, so what is he gonna do now, blame it on Wade, Bosh & Chalmers? He can’t do that. If he wants to be a King, he needs to start acting like one. Hearing him sit there and justify all of that makes him sound like a punk. He’s not trying to convince us regular people…he’s trying convince himself. He must be looking at the last year of his life and thinking that he made is “Decision” for some reasons and none of them came to fruition. The poor guy took a pay-cut to be embarassed again.
"What the hell, let's review it." - Dale Tallon
"They are!" - Pat Foley
"What a farce." - Dale Tallon
Reverse that.
“All the people that was rooting on me to win, at the end of the day they have to wake up tomorrow and have the same life that they had before they woke up today,” James said. "They have the same personal problems they had today. I’m going to continue to live the way I want to live and continue to do the things that I want to do with me and my family and be happy with that.
“They can get a few days or a few months or whatever the case may be on being happy about not only myself, but the Miami Heat accomplishing their goal. But they have to get back to the real world at some point.”
Or better yet:
“All the people that was rooting for the Mavericks, at the end of the day they have to wake up tomorrow and have the same life that they had before they woke up today,” James said. "They have the same personal problems they had today. I’m going to continue to live the way I want to live and continue to do the things that I want to do with me and my family and be happy with that.
“They can get a few days or a few months or whatever the case may be on being happy about the Dallas Mavericks accomplishing their goal. But they have to get back to the real world at some point.”
Is this supposed to be insightful or something? Tell Capt Obvious thanks for the memo, I would act like I care, but I’m too distracted by the Stanley Cup finals at the moment. Oh… wait…
“All the people that were rooting on me to fail, at the end of the day they have to wake up tomorrow and have the same life that they had before they woke up today. They have the same personal problems they had today. I’m going to continue to live the way I want to live and continue to do the things that I want to do with me and my family and be happy with that. So they can get a few days or a few months or whatever the case may be on being happy about not only myself, but the Miami Heat not accomplishing their goal. But they got to get back to the real world at some point.”
While this did not go as far as Charlie did, its in that same ballpark.
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by HjammerTime on Jun 13, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
That's exactly what I got out of it.
“All you people are still peons with problems while I’m still LeBron lolz”
There are some who call me........Tim?
Tremendously tremendous!
Beautius J. Beautius!
by allyouyounghockeyplayersoutthere on Jun 13, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Interesting piece.
Basketball is regarded as a game of stars (and hockey is regarded as a game of team players), but any championship team (regardless of the sport) wins because of contributions on all levels.
The Mavs are an obvious example of team-oriented basketball, but even teams that are synonymous with a few stars (i.e., the Lakers’ Kobe Bryant and the Celtics’ Paul Pierce/Ray Allen/Kevin Garnett) needed contributions from the bench and the rest of the team in order to win their championships. Thus, even if the media wants us to believe otherwise, a basketball championship is the validation of multiple players careers.
And I do think that that the average hockey fan’s disdain with basketball does come with an undercurrent of racism. Boiling basketball’s preoccupation with ‘stars’ down to ‘hip-hop culture’ is a little too simplistic. I found an interesting article that argues that many black inner-city youth regard basketball as a form of self expression. Universities and the NBA have told them that if they’re good enough – if they can become ‘The Man’ – then this form of self-expression can translate into a better life.
Also – I think that many American hockey fans have an inferiority complex. The televised coverage of hockey is not good in America, and viewers must suffer through the likes of Pierre McGuire in order to see a game…haha. There is no American hockey counterpart to shows like FOX NFL Sunday, the NCAA basketball selection show, etc (which combine humor and insightful coverage).
Sorry for the length of this post! I am primarily a hockey fan, but I am also interested in the socioeconomic and racial implications of sports.
by light_the_lamp on Jun 13, 2011 12:53 PM CDT reply actions
Hockey fans definitly have an inferiority complex.
…and I think that is probably reason numero uno as to why many of us dislike basketball.
The racism aspect almost certainly exists but it functions on a lot of different levels. I’ll stick my neck out here and say I simply don’t understand what Sam calls “hip hop culture” in the same way that I don’t understand country music or “Southern culture.” I hate NASCAR almost as much as I hate the NBA. Does that make me prejudiced against White Southerners? I have no idea.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Interesting post. I know that deep down I have an inferiority complex regarding hockey coverage v basketball coverage.
I have a friend who I sometimes hang out with at Gannon’s, my local watering hole. I told him three years ago that, somtime in the future, we’d turn the bar into a hockey bar. Hawks games will be priority, and they’ll subscribe to the Center Ice package. We’re not quite there yet (a lot of Bulls fans at the bar), but we are getting there. More people asking for other games even during the regular season.
Funny thing about NASCAR – a few years ago I would NEVER watch NASCAR. A couple of my other friends who do enjoy it got me to participate in a fantasy NASCAR league (yeah, insert joke here). Being as competitive as I am, I began doing more research on the sport, strategy, etc. Now I’m very muchinto NASCAR and racing, and the business side of it is especially engaging. And as it turns out, I do have an inner redneck that I’ve always ignored.
Ice meets metal - won't you drive me down to the Big League.
by The Fearless Freep on Jun 14, 2011 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Thats hilarious.
I had a buddy come by sometime last year and he asked us to turn on the race because he was in a fantasy league. We all started cracking up.
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by HjammerTime on Jun 14, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
You may be right that there is an undercurrent of racism
to some folks’ dislike of basketball, or of the NBA specifically. But for me, it’s that today’s NBA represents a complete bastardization of the game of basketball such that it bears almost no resemblance to the game as it existed 15 or 20 years ago, when I was a big fan. Traveling is routinely allowed, the continuation fouls are an absolute joke, and the fundamentals of the game have essentially been lost. And unfortunately, it’s creeping into the NCAA game because nowadays, so few great or even good players stick around for more than a year or two that they don’t develop the fundamentals before moving on to the NBA. For me, that has nothing to do with the race of the players. It has to do with the league and the way it is officiated.
Unfortunately, hockey is starting to suffer from the same kind of awful officiating. Players get away with diving, interference, etc., to such an extent that the rules against those things are largely meaningless. Heck, look at the GWG from the first game of the Finals this season. The Nucks were offside and it wasn’t caught. I know a lot of the problem has to do with the speed of the game but the NHL needs to do something to avoid becoming the current edition of the NBA. I used to think the NHL was the best-officiated pro sport by a long shot. Now, it’s not so much.
I found it funny last night during the trophy ceremony that Stern was talking and i could have sworn it was Bettman. The two guys are cut from the same cloth to such an extent that they even sound alike. And that’s a scary thing for me.
Maybe that's because Bettman spent 10 yrs as Senior VP of the NBA (3rd in command)
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 13, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
And they're both born and raised New Yorkers.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
Yes...
conspiracy theorists are rife with opinions regarding the timing of Bettman’s arrival in the NHL right around the same time SI produced the famous cover article about the NHL possibly overtaking the NBA (early 90’s if someone wants to go digging).
Bettman = sent to sabotage NHL by Stern etc, etc, etc…
You are next.
by M7 on Jun 13, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmmm...
I don’t recall implying a conspiracy, but Bettman was head of marketing (and legal something or another I believe) for the NBA. I’m sure he brought that mindset along with him to the NHL and that was a large part of the reason the NHL owners wanted him as commish. “How do we get as popular as the NBA?”
So the complete opposite of what you’re implying.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 13, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
For the record
I don’t subscribe to the conspiracy theory at all. Just referencing a belief that pops up now and then. As you say, I think the NHL owners had the best intention of marketing and expansion etc. The fact that Bettman really pushed NHL expansion into questionable southern markets, ‘allowed’ teams like Winnipeg and QC to move, and that the NBA’s popularity took off measureably moreso than the NHL after his appointment, just throws more convenience to the conspiracy argument.
I hope this makes my point a little better.
You are next.
by M7 on Jun 13, 2011 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions
People forget how low the Canadian dollar was compared to the USD when Winnipeg and QC left. We’re talking something like 1USD=0.6 or 0.7 CAD. So if you had $40M Canadian, it translated into $24M or $28M USD at the time. Compound that problem with less ad revenue (look how many ads are on the boards nowadays. Now look at youtube videos of games in the early 90’s), increasing player salaries, small-markets, etc etc.
Sure, the NHL owns the Phoenix Coyotes at the moment, but look how many teams moved around back then. It wasn’t just Winnipeg and QC. You had Minnesota, Hartford… even current strongholds like Edmonton and Calgary had rumblings of relocation. You cannot blame the NHL for not keeping the teams in Winnipeg and QC. How many franchises can they realistically prop up at the same time?
The southern strategy may have been a byproduct of Gretzky being traded to LA. That trade basically created two new teams – Anaheim and SJ (the Mighty Ducks Disney movies helped things along too). With hindsight, you can say that expanding into Atlanta, or Florida, was a bad choice (what’s ice?). But back then? Atlanta currently has a metropolitan population of 5.2 million people. That’s over double what Vancouver has. If only 10% of those people became fans of the Thrashers, you would have 520,000 fans. In that case, it seems logical to plant a team in Atlanta. Of course, you have to have a good product. No one watched Hawks games in the late 90’s / early 2000’s (part of it cause it wasn’t on TV…). I remember GM Place (Rogers Arena now), sellout capacity of 18000, routinely sat at 13000 or 14000 during the late 90’s too.
Point is, good product = more fan interest. Bad product = you’re screwed. But if you have a bad product in a small market, you’re really screwed. If you have a bad product in a large market, you can ride it out for a few more years at least. And if you were a small market team who fielded a bad product, while being Canadian AND in operation in the mid 90’s? You were toast.
By the way, I don’t know how many people know this, but Quebec of the 90’s? Aside from being pummeled routinely by Montreal in the playoffs, they drafted the #1 overall pick 3 years in a row. Sundin, Owen Nolan, Lindros (they also had Sakic from a few years prior). You don’t get the #1 overall pick 3 years running by being a successful team.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordiques#NHL_era
Look at the 1989-1990 season. 31 points. THIRTY ONE. In 80 games! Who the hell would want to watch that?
Further...
… I wasn’t implying that the SI article was implying any kind of conspiracy either (if that’s the point you thought I was making). My memory of said article was more like, “Look out NBA, the NHL is coming..”.
You are next.
by M7 on Jun 13, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
i'm old enough to know
that this paragraph:
But for me, it’s that today’s NBA represents a complete bastardization of the game of basketball such that it bears almost no resemblance to the game as it existed 15 or 20 years ago, when I was a big fan. Traveling is routinely allowed, the continuation fouls are an absolute joke, and the fundamentals of the game have essentially been lost.
could have been written 20 years ago- it’s been a very long, slow slide.
We like our people!
Not only could have been
…but WAS written 20 years ago, point by point, almost word by word. And also 10 years ago, and also 35 years ago….earlier than that I can’t say for sure. But since at least the late 1970s that I can personally witness, American sports fans have claimed that today’s NBA is much less team-oriented and much less about fundamentals than it was X years earlier. (X being some number between 15 and 25) No doubt they will be swearing in 2026 that the game has degraded in those ways compared to the halcyon days of 2011.
There’s only one True Sport in my household, to be clear, and I don’t watch any basketball very often anymore. But whenever I do happen to watch an NBA game I see something that seems about as team-play-centered and as star-player-centered as is the NHL. It looks different because the structures of the games are inherently different but that’s nothing new. There’s certainly not more isolations in the NBA now than in Jordan’s era let alone in Jabbar’s, that part’s just silly. Traveling looks the same as it always has for good and ill. The league eliminated that silly-assed no-zone-defense rule which has allowed teams to play much more help defense now, and they do. No team wins the championship based on just one elite player any more than an NHL team could. And it ain’t after all like Bill Russell didn’t play 45 minutes a game or Wilt didn’t take half his team’s shots back in the day.
by Paul the Fossil on Jun 13, 2011 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, but
I find your opinion stated here:
And I do think that that the average hockey fan’s disdain with basketball does come with an undercurrent of racism.
to be completely insulting. Talk about a gross generalization.
39 years of pain (1971 loss to Habs) vaporized by one OT goal.
by Badgerdano on Jun 13, 2011 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your absolutely right and get ready to be beaten over the head(verbally)
for calling that person out on it. So sick of hearing this kind of shit. It’s got to a point that no one sticks up for their actual thoughts anymore because they are afraid to be labeled racist.
So when I see very few people of different cultures at a hockey game that means they don’t like white farmers or canadians, etc.
I recall Hack making a similar argument here last year.
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I could be misremembering this
But there was a basketball debate here long ago before the ban on OT conversations and I thought you weighed in saying you thought a factor in some peoples dislike of basketball was motived by racism. If Im not recalling this correctly I apologize.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
...also I didn't reference it as a dig or anything....just to note that the argument wasn't unprecedented here as the original poster came under some fire.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
I appreciate that but my rant isn't directed at you as much
as what I FEEL (my opinion-speaking for myself only) of societie’s direction of over compensation. And yes McClure, I am done with this topic for it has gone past hockey.
I’ll check myself before I wreck myself. -See what I did there…
I don't think it racism.
I think it depends on your economic demography. The stereotype where I grew up and I am pretty sure it is universal is that hockey was played by the rich kids who could afford the equipment and ice time. While everyone else played baseball, basketball and football, where equipment was cheaper and or given to you.
Though sometimes it seems to get lost (because assumptions are always made) there is a huge difference between economic class and race.
by Fromtheillstate on Jun 13, 2011 1:26 PM CDT reply actions
Hockey greats aren't viewed as having fully hit the pinnacle without a Cup though
It isn’t viewed as a Cup he won himself, of course, but there is a tarnish on a guy with a long career who missed out on winning a Cup
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
As for Lebron's comments...
I woke up today to my same life, with my same problems (which he did too, unless he morphed into some one else overnight) and I still have the same amount of championships as he does…0!
by Fromtheillstate on Jun 13, 2011 1:29 PM CDT reply actions
Drew Magery has some thoughts on the subject
http://ca.deadspin.com/5811396/lebron-james-is-still-a-cocksucker
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I'm not even going to bother reading the linked article
because it can’t possibly get any better than the title, “James still a cocksucker.”
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 13, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
The original article 'Lebron James is a Cocksucker' was probably my favorite sports piece of the last decade.
Magary is Deadspin’s best.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
I view him as selfish
He’s an example of the opposite of the saying, “the name on the front is more important than the name on the back”.
He may be a great player but he’s a shining example of the me-first attitude so often displayed in the NBA.
One has only go to the off-season soap-opera that was his FA period, and then the pre-season celebration.
Yes there’s more individuality in the NBA than the NHL. But no one or even two great players won a title by themselves. It still comes down to teamwork and that is what Dallas displayed.
Here’s to hoping a humble kid like Derek Rose never falls into that trap.
Just win the next game...!
doubt it will happen
nothing phases that kid, in post game interviews he doesn’t spend much time talking about what they did right – more time on what he needs to improve on.
by putmeinthemadhouse on Jun 13, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, but the NBA is chock full of two-star teams.
MJ/Pippen, Shaq/Hardaway, Payton/Kemp, Malone/Stockton, Shaq/Kobe, Duncan/Robinson, Shaq/Wade, Kobe/Gasol, Duncan/Parker/Ginobili, Garnett/Pierce/Allen (yeah, the last two are three players, but it still makes sense).
They aren’t all champions, but they made great teams. Pretty sure all of the above went to the Finals as a team, and there are probably more, but this is all I can think of off the top of my head. You get your stars, then you fill out the roster with role players who can supplement what your stars give you. Examples are spot-up three point shooters who can hit when they are open, or defensive lockdown players if your team needs them, or maybe just bodies who can give your stars a rest.
You can hate James for whatever many reasons you can think of (“taking my talents to South Beach”, the welcoming party, leaving Cleveland, because apparently players aren’t supposed to go to free agency, etc etc.). However, he is pretty much the opposite of selfish when it comes to the basketball court. A player like Stephon Marbury, who didn’t want to be the #2 behind Kevin Garnett in Minnesota? That’s selfish. That dude submarined pretty much every team he joined after that.
LeBron just plain out sucked in the Finals. That’s really all it is. Well, that, and Dirk being nigh-unguardable. People making statements about James being selifsh, James being this, being that… let’s face it. They wanted Dallas to win. I wanted Dallas to win (I like watching Dirk). But the Heat will eventually get a title. Or more. Just because it’s such a stacked team. They’ll get their role players, they’ll hit their free throws, and they’ll win a title. Just not this year.
it would be interesting...
if the new basketball CBA were to break up Miami’s big three.
I know some would prefer the NHL to have a soft cap, much like the NBA’s, but I’ve learned to love the NHL’s CBA. It’s a chess match and truly rewards fiscal smarts and I’m all about rules that makes things harder to win/levels the playing field.
Last night I logged onto Yahoo to see the results
The front page photo – still of LeBron. The subtitle: “Photo of LeBron causes stir on web.”
The freaking headline story was about whether or not LeBron had 6 toes on his right foot!!
Further down on the page, one of the links stated that the Mavs had won the NBA Finals.
I guess it’s not LeBron’s fault that he gets so much media attention, but it does annoy me to no end. And if you don’t want people to detest you, don’t go fucking tattooing a humongous “Chosen 1” across your back, asswipe. I’ve never seen that in hockey.
Me. Me. Me. You reap what you sow.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 13, 2011 2:46 PM CDT reply actions
While it is distasteful to tattoo a big 'Chosen 1' across our back
I don’t think that it’s indicative of all basketball players. I can’t think of a single hockey player (other than Gretzky) who has LeBron’s level of global superstardom. Sometimes you buy into your own hype.
by light_the_lamp on Jun 13, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
The man literally answers his phone "King James"
Douche. Bag.
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IMO there is very little difference between global and local superstardom
It doesn’t matter if people in Beijing would recognize you walking down the street if you live in Miami, not Beijing. The only celebrity is local to where you are at the moment.
And although the NBA gets more exposure in the US than the NHL, I would wager that a successful hockey player gets more local acclaim in Canada then NBAers get in the US. You buy into the hype if you choose to. It doesn’t give you an excuse to be a complete Douche Bag.
So again, I’ll repeat: I’ve never seen that in hockey. In hockey, your own teammates would knock you down a peg if you had that selfish attitude.
Call me racist, envious, or whatever excuse you want to come up with to defend NBA culture. I simply don’t go for the theatrics of the NBA and many of its players.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 13, 2011 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not calling anyone a racist.
I comment on this blog because I’m a huge fan of all things hockey. I’m definitely not a LeBron apologist (I’m indifferent about the whole issue), and as a native Texan, I rooted for the Mavs all the way.
I just think that many of the posters on this thread have been quick to demonize ‘NBA culture’ without analyzing the forces (the article that I linked to makes some really good points) that create ‘entitled’ NBA stars. Even if you don’t care about basketball, it’s an interesting read (and will provide some context to your disdain).
by light_the_lamp on Jun 13, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
It’s probably best not to call anyone racist, but NBA “culture” really does transfer many of the worst traits of American society like no other sport does. That’s not to say that there aren’t really good eggs in the bunch. I think Deng is one of the more respectable athletes in all of sports. But overall, the league’s overall propensity for negative story lines and egos are a huge turn off for me.
Then again, pick your poison. Hockey culture is one of alcohol abuse and cheap shot artists. Baseball culture has been tainted by ‘roids and other banned supplements and football has had it’s own issues with violence, unsettling egos and Michael Vick.
IMO, this is what turns a star (good player) into a Superstar loved by almost everybody and across sports
Hit a home run – put your head down, drop the bat, run around the bases, because the name on the front is more – a lot more important than the name on the back.
~Ryne Sandberg
This is the attitude I look for. I am a Hawks and Cubs fan BEFORE I am a Toews or Castro fan (and a fan of Hockey and Baseball before either of my teams). Those two may leave, but I will always be a fan of the Hawks and Cubs, and a player who plays for the team and not his own stats cannot be overrated.
Preemptive Palomino, lets talk political stuff elsewhere .
Second City Hockey, It's not just about Hockey, it's Blackhawks Hockey!
Sarcasm is implied, unless I am serious
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 13, 2011 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Here is another Ryno quote perhaps Honk or was it Donk should have followed
I was taught you never, ever disrespect your opponent or your teammates or your organization or your manager and never, ever your uniform.
Preemptive Palomino, lets talk political stuff elsewhere .
Second City Hockey, It's not just about Hockey, it's Blackhawks Hockey!
Sarcasm is implied, unless I am serious
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 13, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
or "Commit to the Indian"
Oh wait! Now I realize that was Savy being yet another racist hockey fan.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 13, 2011 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup ... the "R" word
Quite often when one doesn’t have a strong argument to make they fall back on calling someone that which does nothing but ratchet up angst 10x and immediately makes the conversation controversial.
Just win the next game...!
This sums it up !!
This is the attitude I look for. I am a Hawks and Cubs fan BEFORE I am a Toews or Castro fan (and a fan of Hockey and Baseball before either of my teams).
This is what the NHL is about & not the NBA. How many times over the years have we heard, “Jordan and the Bulls”, “Kobe and the Lakers” etc etc. It’s always hyped that way. Individuals over teams. The entire league is that way.
Just win the next game...!
I remember the Bulls being referred to as “The Jordanaires” during that run.
Ice meets metal - won't you drive me down to the Big League.
by The Fearless Freep on Jun 14, 2011 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Jordan himself
ALWAYS referred to the rest of the team as “and the rest” “the Professor and MaryAnn” “the supporting cast”. toward the end, he might have hoisted Pippen up onto the dais with him, but that was it.
We like our people!
not to mention that Jordan loved kicking his supporting cast in the nuts. I’m still turned off with the way he would make B.J. Armstrong feel smaller than he already was.
There is no doubt that Michael Jordan is an asshole for the most part.
His HOF induction speech was appalling.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
by HjammerTime on Jun 14, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
It's not quite 'Chosen 1'...
…but Kessler’s K-Man tattoo is pretty bad
You are next.
by M7 on Jun 13, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
True but...
At least Kessler showed up in the Finals…lol
by Fromtheillstate on Jun 13, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope he has LeBron's finish....
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
And if you don’t want people to detest you, don’t go fucking tattooing a humongous "Chosen 1" across your back, asswipe. I’ve never seen that in hockey.
I have.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
by McClure on Jun 13, 2011 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn’t have thought that K-Man needed tom draw power from a Ti bracelet either.
You are next.
by M7 on Jun 13, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions
poorly designed as well
could have at least had it done properly.
by putmeinthemadhouse on Jun 13, 2011 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions
If LeBron simply had "C1" on his shoulder, I might buy into your comparison
Plus, I heard that Kesler just hasn’t had time to get his tat finished yet.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 13, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
hmmm
does Dirk have an egocentric tattoo?
mebbe we’re looking at this all wrong.
mebbe it’s just fucking Americans. Fuck yeah!
We like our people!
Of course you don't see that in Hockey!
I can only imagine what kind of tattoos NHL players have, and I’m good with that!
Seriously, I think god is punishing LeBron for that sorry-ass shirt he wore on ESPN for the “Decision”.
Did he steal that from Howdy Doody, or Alan Harper?
My Father's name is Jack, and my Mother's name is Daniels...
THIS ENDS HERE!
/McClure’d
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 13, 2011 2:47 PM CDT reply actions
That was my first thought as well.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
This just made my day.
"What is icing?"
"Well, uh... icing appen when uh the puck come down... bang, you know, before the other guys, nobody there, you know. My arm go comme ça then the game stop then start up."
by anActiveStick on Jun 13, 2011 3:27 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You beat me to it.
Man, didn’t we get beaten down for an OT thread like this a year or so ago? However, since it’s officially a topic…
That’s what a lot of hockey fans get turned off by in basketball. Some will tell you that comes with an undercurrent of racism, and I don’t doubt for a small, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing minority that’s probably true. But for a lot of us, the appeal of hockey is the “complete team” aspect.
My feelings exactly. Some minority might not like basketball because they’re racists, but for a lot of non-basketball people, it has more to do with the types of players and their attitudes that turn us off. I am not a racist. Some of my all-time favorite Chicago athletes were black. Topping that list are Walter Payton, Ernie Banks, and Billy Williams; all tremendous team players. I’ve never liked players who are all about themselves regardless of their race. Basketball seems to focus on the individual and creates the monsters.
Also, just because one doesn’t appreciate certain aspects of a culture does not make one racist.
39 years of pain (1971 loss to Habs) vaporized by one OT goal.
i'm wichu dano
this is pretty funny though:
Some of my all-time favorite Chicago athletes were black
My big three Chicago athletes are: Billy Williams, Walter Payton, Michael Jordan. But, to my point: a lot of you 20-something brats are probably unaware of the 1936 book “Some of my Best Friends are Jews”, by Robert Gessner. This approach, “some of my best friends are (fill in the blank)” is a time-honored set-up for criticizing the group in question. just wanted to provide some cultural context here.
but i ain’t finished. the fact that most hockey players are white probably has a certain appeal to racists, but racism, to the extent it even exists among younger people nowadays, is pretty weak tea compared to the old school variety.
and saying that maybe “racists prefer hockey” is a very different thing from saying “the average hockey fan is racist.”
it’s like the point the liberal John Stuart Mill made to the conservative 19th Century British Prime Minister (and Jew!) Benjamin Disraeli: “I’m not saying conservatives are stupid, just that stupid people tend to be conservative.” important distinction there.
finally, back to hockey fans. Hockey enjoys a cosmopolitanism nowadays. Players come from all over, and the trend is helped by the fact that the sport is not hugely popular in mainstream America, like soccer, because, let’s face it, most people don’t like America (fuck ‘em, I say, but that’s a different tangent.)
the hyper-PC young hipster crowd is also a not insignificant part of modern hockey fanbases, and God knows it takes pains to ensure inclusiveness around here, amirite?
you don’t get much more cosmoploitan than Vancouver- the last Hawks/Nucks game at the UC, I think an absolute majority of the Canuck fans I saw were Indian, and there was not a whiff of any kind of racial nonsense.
/end ramble
We like our people!
Yeah, I thought of that as I wrote it.
However, the fact remains that those three guys were and are among my all time favorite athletes. You could toss in Hull, Mikita, and Butkus and that would probably round out my top six list of Chicago athletes. Jordan would be right up there too and last I heard, he is also black. That’s what really killed me when that idiot MB said Cub fans were racist and that’s why they booed him.
39 years of pain (1971 loss to Habs) vaporized by one OT goal.
Yeah
buktus, hull, Mikita, and banks’ best years predate my recollection, barely.
And it’s only been 4 years, but tows already has a room reserved in my pantheon.
We like our people!
Hipster
is a word that has lost all meaning.
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Jun 14, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
In other news
sharks are looking to deal setoguchi
by putmeinthemadhouse on Jun 13, 2011 2:48 PM CDT reply actions
deal was the wrong word
although I don’t see why, played like a stud in the playoffs for the most part.
by putmeinthemadhouse on Jun 13, 2011 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
The Sharks dislike playoff performers.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Can he dunk??
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 13, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Love the write up
You laid out exactly why I love Hockey and Baseball so much, they are both true team sports. Basketball does get very focused on one maybe two people, way more than my liking, whereas Hockey and Baseball one or two do not make a championship team, or even enough to build around (though you pointed out in Basketball perhaps this is the same) but it takes a team, all 6 or 9 guys (10 for the minor league AL) doing their thing, anyone can be the hero or goat any day. But perhaps basketball markets just too much on the person and not the team, but if it works for them great, it is just not me. Though I did watch a few minutes here and there and the last 4 min of Game 6 ONLY to see LJ lose! Count me in the WTF crowd about his South Beach ordeal.
Preemptive Palomino, lets talk political stuff elsewhere .
Second City Hockey, It's not just about Hockey, it's Blackhawks Hockey!
Sarcasm is implied, unless I am serious
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 13, 2011 3:36 PM CDT reply actions
LOL
10 for the minor league AL
I’ll have to make a donation to the Coast Guard Auxiliary Fund for that jab. LOL
39 years of pain (1971 loss to Habs) vaporized by one OT goal.
Basketball is a game of indivuals,
but even worse, the last two minutes of a basketball game take roughly half an hour. Also, whenever I give the sport a chance and turn it on, i inevitably see a player run the ball from half court without dribbling and never get called as a traveling?
I don't think racism really enters into it
Hockey still seems comprised primarily of guys who grew up in small towns where the sport is nothing short of a religion, whereas basketball has become even more of an urban game compared to the 70’s and 80’s. True, there are a host of stars in hockey hailing from big cities and also the reverse for basketball, but the predominant roots for both sports still seems to be in effect. And there’s also this – remember the story last year after the Caps were bitterly eliminated by the Habs on their home ice, and one of their stars stopped by the side of the road driving home after the game to help a middle – aged woman with her flat tire. I don’t know why, but I can’t imagine this kind of story happening with a guy like James, or most other NBA mega – stars – they’re too far removed from the fans at this point, esconsed in their own bubbles of luxurious isolation replete with a retinue of hangers – on and mooches from their younger days.
BTW, if a playoff thread is started later here tonight
and the douchenozzles win the whole shebang, I hope the mods here are prepared for the mother of all troll shitstorms to descend on this site. If it’s anything close to what I’d wager, it’ll make last year’s trollbotting seem tame by comparison.
My suggestion...
Remove the 2-day waiting period this week. IMO it would be great fun and very therapeutic to play with the mindless trolls (the actual trolls) and SCH would get more traffic than anytime since the last year’s finals.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 13, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I would tend to agree
But I have a feeling it would turn very very nasty in about as much time as it takes for the Ugly ones to dive and Torres to be a dumbshit!
Preemptive Palomino, lets talk political stuff elsewhere .
Second City Hockey, It's not just about Hockey, it's Blackhawks Hockey!
Sarcasm is implied, unless I am serious
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 13, 2011 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm starting to think you've become a little obsessed with possible trolls. (just kidding)
Like CNS said. Just play with them. We used to have a ton of fun with them, then once they got out of hand they were out of here. Don’t worry at least one of the mods will be here and yes I am ready to ban / give penalties, etc. to the ones that deserve it.
It doesn't hurt to be optimistic. You can always cry later.
That was Brooks Laich
a guy that a lot of people on this board have advocated looking at as a possible UFA acquisition. I wouldn’t mind, he’s a hard worker and clearly a classy guy as well.
by FrankStallone on Jun 13, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t know why you can’t see people helping each other out. It doesn’t matter about their profession – a doctor could stop on the side of the road to help you with your tire, as could a delivery driver. What makes you say that NBA players are too far removed from the fans? Do you think Wayne Gretzky would help you with your spare tire? Mario Lemieux? One thing I’ll just point out – an NBA player stands out in public way more than an NHL player. It’s not that they’re mostly black – it’s that they are huge. When some 6’6" dude comes to help you with your tire, he draws more attention than someone who is of average height.
OK, time to move on to the "Thread of Hope"
(see what I did there?? Feel free to use that ToS)
And hopefully, if all goes well, in two days we’ll have “The Decision” thread.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 13, 2011 3:58 PM CDT reply actions
Lebron's problem
The uproar about James’s disappearance these past two games, though I get it, is probably something that would never happen in hockey, or not to this extent. After all, Jonathan Toews won a Conn Smythe, and he didn’t score a goal after the second round. You ever hear about that?
The problem with his last two (actually three) games, though, isn’t that he didn’t play well in crunchtime – it’s that he might as well have not been playing at all. He passed up shots, he didn’t even try to make things happen for the most part, and he was often just standing around. Read Joe Posnanski’s piece on the game for a better explanation of what I’m talking about.
I think a performance like that would cause a shitstorm in the hockey world, where looking like you don’t give a fuck is a far worse crime than simply playing poorly. If anything, hockey fans seem to care more about effort than NBA fans, and schadenfreude aside, that’s the big gripe against Lebron this morning.
I changed my mind about Lebron this year.
Absolutely nothing to do with racism. I used to think he was one of the very, very few who had lived up to the hype when he began in the NBA. His talent and skills just kept improving. And even though everyone kept dubbing him the next Jordan, he didn’t seem to get too caught up in it. This year, all that changed. It seems he started to believe what people said about him. That he was the best. Declaring that the Heat would now win “not 1, not 2, not 3….” championships before the season began was when he turned into Mr. Arrogant. And to then go on to be a martyr all season because people resented all his self-love just started to get sickening. That’s another thing hockey fans can’t stand: whining. (Pretty much explains our feelings toward the Nucks, doesn’t it?)
Way to go Dallas and Dirk. Good for Kidd and Terry. Now it’s the Bulls’ turn to improve and get to the next level. But first, the Bruins have to take care of some business so I don’t go to my dr.’s appointment tomorrow with heart troubles…
They whine, they dive, they pull hair, they bite. Ladies and gentlemen, the Vancouver Canucks!
Please, anyone but Vancouver. Please....
here
It is I think
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
by justforkicks on Jun 13, 2011 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm so tired I might have to sleep through this game.
I slept through our game 6 with Van and we all know how that turned out.
Go B’s and please don’t be terrible tonight. You can do it! I believe in you!
Wait
How do they bounce the ball on the ice? :P
by DasCuddleMonster on Jun 13, 2011 11:53 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Nice write up Sam,
However, in terms of media marketing I think the NBA and the NHL are far more similar than you’d maybe like to admit. Maybe its this way because focusing the attention on a star player is the easy way to market a professional sports team (captures the human interest story angle best I suppose). Cutting to the chase: there is plenty of individual over the team glorification that occurs in the NHL too.
If i take my Hawks/Hockey homer goggles off i can admit that the 2010 Stanley Cup being remembered as a total team championship is probably more a function of the fact that it was the first franchise championship in 49 years than it was about some high-falutin’ hockey communalism.
Detroit championships are rememebred as team victories because lets face it,SCUM is marketed as a franchise, as THE franchise (and, quite frankly, the team doesn’t possess a single marketable individual, except maybe Pavel Datsyuk, but christ on a stick he his creepy).
But try to tell me that 1994 was about the Rangers and not Mark Messier. The only reason most people can even remember that the Rangers won the Cup in 1994 is because they remember that was the year that Messier got his cup.
2001 was about Ray Bourque, nto the Avalanchce
and 2009 was about Sid the Kid’s validation as a champion.
There is more parallel there than most hockey fans might (comfortably) be willing to admit.
Am I paranoid? I don't know. I went to a therapist once, but I left before he gave me the diagnosis, cause he had it out for me.
by Detroit Must Die on Jun 14, 2011 12:33 PM CDT reply actions
Oh an i guaruntee the VAN media takes the Sedins (and Luongo too) to task if Boston finds a way to pull it out
Am I paranoid? I don't know. I went to a therapist once, but I left before he gave me the diagnosis, cause he had it out for me.
by Detroit Must Die on Jun 14, 2011 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
The reason that Hawk fans remember the 94 Cup was
that Steve Larmer finally got his name on it.
For the first time in my life, I bought a non-#21 Blackhawks jersey. Stan, please forgive me.
LeBron's weird contradiction
……..subtle encourages the spotlight to be on himself—yet constantly put on the " it an’t about me" act. Everyday he has to wake up and face the fact that the lack of killer attitude will haunt him forever. A skinny white german guy whooped the ’best" team in the NBA….maybe there is parity in the NBA.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer Simpson
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