2010 - 2011 Braintrust Evaluations: Joel Quenneville
by McClure on Jun 6, 2011 10:04 AM CDT
Email
PrintYou didn't really think we'd go through all this trouble to miss out on taking the suits to task, did you? First on the docket is the man in the mustache, Joel Quenneville. As one of the NHL's more decorated and tenured bench bosses for nearly two decades, the ultimate prize of a Stanley Cup had eluded Q until last season, which earned him a 3 year extension. So just as everyone in uniform experienced, it would be a new venture for Quenneville as well dealing with the aftermath of a Cup hangover and his roster gutted.
Contract Status: Signed through 2013-2014 (mercifully, no cap hit)
Positives: Well, no one died, did they? Though even then there were some close calls. Based on what was coming out of his players mouths after games after tough losses, it seemed apparent that Quenneville stayed on message and positive with his group, seemingly ad nauseum reiterating that their time will come, and they just need to keep working hard and the breaks will come their way. Only Brian Campbell, who was seemingly the only one aware of how dire the situation was early, and Duncan Keith, who couldn't wait to unload on teammates or make excuses for his own play seemed to break rank. Additionally, Quenneville wasn't hesitant to give Marty Turco the hook in favor of Corey Crawford, who clearly was out performing Turco as early as Halloween. Quenneville also didn't blink at using all of the tools in his coaching arsenal, which included but weren't limited to benchings, verbal lacerations, and bag skates, though their timing and effectiveness are all certainly debatable. And Q did keep his team from panicking when down 3 games to none against the Canucks, rallying them to within an inch of pulling off what could have been arguably the biggest upset in sports history.
Negatives: Strap in. Quennville's personnel decisions and how he allotted playing time were justifiably under scrutiny from the word go this past year. He leaned on on his horses too much too early, trotting Keith out there for 30+ minutes a night on the regular while chasing points. We were subjected Nick Boynton far too frequently while a then able-bodied Jordan Hendry sat for reasons still unclear. Viktor Stalberg and Jack Skille were on about as short of a leash imaginable, despite the fact that they brought speed to the bottom six. Nick Leddy and Duncan Keith kept getting thrown out there together even though there was seemingly a breakaway against that pairing nightly. And then there's John Scott. While it remains unclear just how much influence Quenneville had in Scott's signing here, we do know the circumstantial evidence is not in his favor, having already lived through the Matt Walker experience. And that Scott was continually taking a spot in the lineup only to skate 5 minutes a night, all within the first 30 minutes of a game and therefore exhausting the rest of the lineup doesn't reflect well on Quenneville in the least.
Defining Moment: "Quenneville Hospitalization Caused By Ulcer". We can sympathize, coach.
Outlook: Because of how hockey works where coaches are given the guillotine on the regular, it would not have been surprising in the least if Quenneville would have been fired at numerous points in the season (getting pantsed on home ice by Edmonton, either of the embarrassments in Calgary, or the back-to-back blown 3rd period leads to the toilet-bound Avs immediately come to mind). But given the fact that he was (rightfully) given fresh paper coming off a cup win, that card wasn't pulled. The short summer and roster re-tooling were certainty mitigating factors as well, but they won't be next season, the former being evidenced by the fact that this review is even being posted right now. If Quenneville gets points-chasey early once again, Mike Haviland has shown to be of taking the reins, and management now knows this and may not be as reluctant to act upon it.
Final Grade: D. I like Joel Quenneville's coaching mantra; that the best offense starts with coverage in your own zone, and he wants to play an uptempo game and dictate that to the opponent. But his insistence on keeping purported "physical presences" in the lineup to the detriment of that philosophy seems to be self-defeating. While some may claim he was dealt a shitty hand personnel-wise, he still ultimately decides who's in the press box and who isn't. And while injuries certainly didn't help things, his constant shuffling of line combinations created a lack of continuity that the players all but overtly said grows tiresome. Last year, the roster was so stacked that Quenneville was wise to get out his own way on a lot of occasions, and avoided many of his faults that had caused the Cup to previously elude him despite having fantastic teams. This year, the roster exposed every one of Q's downfalls and showed why a man with such success had been fired twice. If he can't regain that form next year, a third time could very well be forthcoming.
350 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Boynton over Hendry
Definitely the biggest head scratcher in the early parts of the season. Im not sure he was ever even asked (calling on Chris Kuc to get off his ass at Portillo’s) to explain that.
Scott is the obvious criticism along with Keith’s ice-time. Often the two were linked.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
As you pointed out, Q just needed to get out of his own way during the SC year. Q did a good job the year before, but things were clearly on the upswing even then. A good coach is one who knows how to manage the down times, and I think the questioning of his decisions over this past year are justified. I’d love to watch the movie “Being Joel Quenneville” just to understand the personnel decisions he made regarding Scott, Hendry, Boynton, Leddy, etc.
I would imagine with McD’s promotion, the honeymoon from the SC season is over. Perform or changes will be made. I am curious to see how Mike Kitchen grades out. I’m thinking Havi did well. Personally I think Stephane Waite ought to get a top grade considering how he worked with Niemi and Crawford during the past two seasons.
I’m also anticipating this year’s draft. We’ll see how things are in the front office after that.
...drink your big black cow, and get out of here..."
by The Fearless Freep on Jun 6, 2011 10:33 AM CDT reply actions
I don't think we're going to go so far as fully grading out Kitchen and Haviland
There’s not enough there to truly be able to give them the full run-through, but if we were to, you’d be correct in your assessment.
I’m shocked Haviland doesn’t have a head job somewhere yet, though the rumor on that is that he’s not a good interview- that he doesn’t bullshit well.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
I suspect a review of StanBow would very adequately complete the management contingent
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
I think Kichen shit the bed
With pretty much everything he touched this year. He was head of the awful PK early, then they switched him to the nearly league leading PP and it began to tank. All of this could not have helped Qs rating — just one of those Ls turn to Ws and we are not the 8th seed.
I hope we do not see him behind the Hawks bench next year.
That is pretty much what I was thinking. Not being privvy to how these responsibilites were actually handled, we did hear about how Kitch was moved around a bit, and the special teams were at best inconsistent, and at worst, downright atrocious. Kitch never appeared to me like he was really comfortable in the role he had. I recall being kind of bummed when Atlanta signed Torch, thinking he was the better of the two assistants. In hindsight, I think the Hawks were benefitted from keeping Havi on board. Let’s hope he sticks around….unless of course he gets a head coaching gig somewhere.
...drink your big black cow, and get out of here..."
by The Fearless Freep on Jun 6, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
Based on the product for which Kitch was generally given credit, or perhaps blame is the better word, i’d give him an F and hope to never see him behind the Hawks bench again.
39 years of pain (1971 loss to Habs) vaporized by one OT goal.
Kitch sucked in St Louis
(the season after Q was fired, Kitch led them to the worst record in franchise history. The next season he started out even worse before getting fired too), they were happy to see him leave in Florida (according to multiple blogs at the time), and I’m sure we’ll be happy to see him leave Chicago too.
Apparently he’s a nice enough guy, just lacks “creativity” and is not a very good communicator of ideas. Maybe the ToS has heard something similar/different?
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet home Chicago!
(Short sale pending)
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jun 6, 2011 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions
that doesn't particularly matter - one can fairly effectively force out coaching staff
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
I have to say the 1980 Olympic Hockey team's triumph was a far greater upset
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
Very true
My mistake, I guess I meant series-comeback instead of “upset”. Didn’t mean to get all Bill Walton on everyone.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
I think that the the level of punk rock references made on this site should tell you what my opinion of that band is.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
just a generational difference?
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
and the surviving Dead fans are what ... 60+
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
I'm of krome's generation
but I know a fair number of people under 30 who love them. And a fair number who don’t. Basically just like “my generation”.
Some bands carry over into multiple generations
and the Dead, for reasons that are still unclear to me, are one of those bands. Just when you think they’re finally fading away, another generation discovers them and it just goes on…and on. Other bands I can definitely understand their multi – generational appeal, but the Dead is not one of them.
No offense to you
but people that show up to shows just for the drugs are the worst. However, I may or may not have made lots of money off of those people when I was young and taking very dumb risks.
Phish and the Dead are very different
I was raised on the Dead (even named after a song) but I do not really like them. I love Phish on the other hand.
There have been what...5 comebacks from down 3-0 in NHL playoff history?
Yes, this would have ranked right up there with those others, I’d have to say.
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
Before us
6 other teams had forced a game 7, of those 3 had won. We skewed the odds of wining (sp?) the series to less than 50% when we lost.
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
Maths disagrees
First off, the US hockey team beat the Russian team in much the same circumstances in the 1960 Olympics (beating Canada on the way, which the 1980 team didn’t).
Herb Brooks himself apparently gave the US team a 10% chance of winning against the USSR (apparently goalie Jim Craig played out of his mind that Olympics, reducing their “underdog” status pre-game by a fair amount), while the chances of coming down from 3-0 down in a 7-game series is roughly 0.95%.
Because a blog of alcoholics just isn't complete without a Scot.
...I forget the rest, but your mother's a whore.
Yeah, he did
If you watch clips of all of the games, Craig really did play far above his head. More amazing was that the team had played so abysmally during the run – up to the Olympics. Can’t remember that kind of complete turnaround for a US Olympic team before.
Craig was an ANIMAL in that tournament.
I still have the entire thing on VHS. I may need to hook up the VCR and give it a review, for historical impact, sometime soon.
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
LoL... My DVD/Bluray recorder wasn't quite working during that tournament...
I went with what I had.
;)
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
As an outsider
I almost feel bad for Quenneville. You are handed a great team by Tallon and the players respond to you system, then you win the cup in your second year, only to see the team lose keys members. I guess some would argue that a better coach would make the necessary adjustments to keep his team on track, but then again, the coach can’t make his players play to their full capability.
Bieksa reminds me of Han Solo, except without the charm...or the Wookie at his side, unless you count Alberts.
The Cap penalty the team operated under this year made a big difference
imagine having had $4 mil more to keep players – or get better replacements
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
yes that carry-over was a nuisance
by putmeinthemadhouse on Jun 6, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Overach...
Oh, wait.
Toews, AND Kane?
Fuck…. I’ve got nothing.
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
The players in the doghouse meme grew tiresome as well
OK, so you want to limit their ice time because they screwed up – I get that. But how are players supposed to play their way out of that doghouse if their minutes are continually restricted, even during garbage time?
“Personally I think Stephane Waite ought to get a top grade considering how he worked with Niemi and Crawford during the past two seasons.”
Yeah, spot – on – as evidenced with Nemo’s performance in this year’s playoffs, which were manic – depressive at best. Hope he’s with us on next season’s staff.
He went to the pound with Versteeg regularly in 2010 and he usually responded.
That didn’t seem to work with Stalberg or Brouwer this season.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
I'd like him to try it with Kane a bit more - Kane seems to respond to that sort of thing
some players just don’t though – that’s where good coaches learn a one size fits all approach doesn’t give maximum benefit
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
You could only really do it with Kane for a shift or two
There were times where Versteeg sat out almost entire periods. The only times its really called for with Kane are when he lapses defensively. He had a bevy of reasons to sit Versteeg-Brouwer and Stals.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
However at the same time he knew this was coming
He, along with the rest of the staff just did not respond well. They didn’t do the job they needed too, just like many players on the ice this year.
D seems harsh
I think a lot of the criticisms here are fairly mild in the grand scheme of things, since they have a lot to do with his handling of the bottom of the roster.
And I don’t get the points-chasing criticism; they needed every point they could get, as was apparent all season. It’s not like he was running Keith out there 30 minutes a night to get the second seed instead of the third. Seems like any criticism here is highly speculative, hinging on the (not at all obvious) theoretical that they’d have performed better down the stretch had they let up earlier in the season.
I think I’d go with a C grade. Big-picture wise, his well-documented impatience with lineups seemed to hamper on-ice chemistry, and while this is speculative as well, I think it might have been responsible for some of the slow starts we saw. It was different in 09-10, since that team had largely played together for years at that point and were probably a little more prepared for nightly lineup upheaval, but with the departure of Byfuglien, Ladd, Versteeg, Eager, Burish, etc., I think a little more time might have been appropriate before everyone got thrown in the nightly line blender.
But still … this was a pretty good team, and as frustrating as they were at times, I think we also need to remember that with a couple of different bounces, the Hawks are playing at home in the first round and we might not have much to bitch about. it was just a crazy-ass Western Conference this year, and all things considered, I’m not sure that any other coach would have gotten a much different result.
running your horses into the ground early is a mistake
early is where you sacrifice a point here and there to get the new/young guys intergrated into the system and producing for you, with the knowledge that having them functioning fullbore will make up those lost points later.
I used to tell the parents at the parents meeting that no one cares if you lose the first 5 games of teh season – if you win the last 5. We structured the whole apprach to the season (early season minutes, what tournaments we were in, everything) toward the idea of beign ready to win out the string at the end.
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
I understand the logic
but I can’t fault his reasoning when it was clear practically from the start that they were in a season-long dogfight for every last point.
Of course, the big problem is that they were chasing points that the very often failed to get anyway.
They often failed to get points because they collapsed in the 3rd period.
I would argue they often collapsed because guys like Keith were exhausted.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
In order to make a good run - the lower line guys needed to get their chance to fit in
that needs to be done earlier rather than later
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
I agree
All indications are that Q loves Smith-Morin and Klinkhammer. At least two of those guys are likely to be in the bottom 6 this year so our lower lines should get more consistent time next season.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
If there are points this year where he would have been fired were it not for external circumstances, then I can't justify anything higher.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
But it's not like those external circumstances
were illegitimate. They were genuine circumstances to take into account.
I suppose my question is, do you think he did worse than his circumstances? If so, I understand the D. But I don’t really think so – while I don’t think he transcended his circumstances, and thus doesn’t earn an A or B, I also don’t think that he made the situation worse. It’s the very essence of a C to me.
It would be a C to me if we only dealt with the known flaws- jumbled lines and iffy handling of goaltenders. There was not only that, Quenneville regressed to needing his “physicality”, which we thought he had finally gotten past doing in 2010, hence the D.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
I think McClure is raising very valid points
I certainly agree with them, although there is some room for legitimate debate as to whether Q doing things better would have given hugely different results
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
I honestly think they would have
John Scott in the lineup to skate a meaningless 5 minutes a night created a ripple effect of playing time throughout the roster that we saw the results of at the end of the season. Anyone even remotely competent other than he or Boynton could have prevented others from skating significantly more minutes than they had to.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
I agree with you, fairly strongly
I am simply recognizing that there might be reasonably held (albeit mistakenly held, in my opinion) contrary views
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
In a sense, you're plainly correct
As jumbled as the Western Conference was, any small thing might have made a huge difference in the standings.
But we’re still talking about the 6th d-man spot here, and it’s always easy to overrate the magic-bulletness of making such small changes.
I don't know the Hawks minor league team but
wouldn’t there have been a better choice to bring up and play or sit, rather than Scott?
Bieksa reminds me of Han Solo, except without the charm...or the Wookie at his side, unless you count Alberts.
@ Westy99
While we all asked the same question months ago, we were told the Hawks were at the Vet limit. Therefore, John Scott gets to call himself an NHL hockey player. Better?
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Sarcasm noted
answer appreciated. I think John Scott is the only one calling himself an NHL hockey player.
Bieksa reminds me of Han Solo, except without the charm...or the Wookie at his side, unless you count Alberts.
Well from the way Stan talks, it sounds like he's going to be an NHL REGULAR next season.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Regular what?
Player or scratch.
Bieksa reminds me of Han Solo, except without the charm...or the Wookie at his side, unless you count Alberts.
He said the Hawks will be looking to get him more ice time.
Stan Bowman may have been watching games on peyote the entire season.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
did he actually say that time would be in the NHL?
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
Ahh ...but StanBow is a crafty one, assumptions are dangerous
or maybe he has a trade in the works
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
oh how I wish
the ice-time he was talking about would be in rockford.
by putmeinthemadhouse on Jun 6, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
or Florida or Toronto or...
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
That seems unlikely, but I hope to hell it happens.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Thank you for your EXCELLENT opinion...
EXCELLENT because your team of choice has a place in the Stanley Cup finals…therefore you are free to share your knowledge with us first- round loser fans…
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR EXCELLENT FUCKING OPINION!
"Jonathan Toews: Youngest Triple Gold Winner EVER...EVER is a LONG time, no script written for people like that"
Sarcasm noted again.
I didn’t know the situation therefore I asked.
Bieksa reminds me of Han Solo, except without the charm...or the Wookie at his side, unless you count Alberts.
Forgettaboutit
Don’t know why that posting merited that response.
cool it dude
there’s no reason for that response. He was just asking an honest question.
Second City Hockey
I'm Abe Froman, and I approve this message.
I think that you're all over this one, too.
Q was handed a core that had just won The Stanley Cup. He knew what he had, he knew what they were capable of, and he mis-managed that out of the gate, as you pointed out.
There were injuries during the season, and that’s something that a team has to expect, but Boynton/Scott are not the answer. They are not capable enough from end to end. Basically as has been suggested here many times, they don’t fit the system that is in place.
Why then, were/are they here?
More importantly. Why were they taking minutes that others could have more sensibly been skating?
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
For me the D fits.
Simply for the constant line juggling and personnel decisions. John Scott and Nick Boynton. Enough said.
39 years of pain (1971 loss to Habs) vaporized by one OT goal.
very interested to see the Bowman grade
Signing the core in the middle of last year directly resulted in the decisions made last off season and into the year. I wonder if that will be taken into regard when the verdict is passed. I think most agree that it was an awful year for Stan, but locking up the captain, norris, and 88 was going to make it a hard year anyway.
Doin the FRANKENSTEIN
I thought he actually made some moves that even the score...but I guess this convo can wait for the Bowman thread.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
He coached the same this year as he did the previous year
Remember the invention of the line generator? He changed lines continually during the regular season. His combos and changing worked during the playoffs especially against Pronger, but it was mind numbing until then.
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
I'm agreeing with the D.
The previous season they won in spite of him. I give him a D in the reg season then too, but B+ in the playoffs.
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
I agree with this.
Q was able to get away with the line jumbling much better in ‘09-’10 because the guys on that team were generally so familiar with one another that they could change lines and not lose a step. But this season, there were so many new guys — and particuarly young guys — that it was pretty obvious they needed some consistency to get used to one another. Well, it was obvious to everyone but Q. And they didn’t get that consistency until Q was hospitalized and Havy took the helm. Yeah, I know Q was still in on the decisions but Havy let them go through several games with the same lines and the team got better as a result.
I expected Q to see that problem and address it by changing up his style a bit. But I don’t know why I expected that because he’s coached the same way forever. For me, it’s that lack of adjustment that earns him a D.
Points for consistency
At SCH, we firmly believe the Blackhawks had by far the most talented team in the league this year.
How else to explain:
A captain who doesn’t recognize the need to take a cue from the genius commenters at SCH and lose his shit a half-dozen times a year. It’s called leadership JT.
An assistant captain who doesn’t know how to keep his shit together and stole $8 million this year. Just keep your trap shut and start playing hockey Dunc.
A bunch of top-flight forwards who all had meh years.
A coach who earned a D, mishandling NHL legends Jack Skille and Viktor Stalberg, and who insisted on giving a guy who was obviously not trying more ice-time than anyone else in the league.
And yet, and yet… it came down to "next goal wins the series" against the team that is gonna win the Cup handily.
The only explanation I can think of is that our $7.1 million bum-slaying ginger singlehandedly overcame this slopping bucket of urine to put the Hawks in that position.
Based on these assessments, if the Hawks could have gotten ‘B’ seasons outta Q, Keith, Kane, Sharp, and Hossa, they would have put up 120 points and cruised through the playoffs right?
We like our people!
by cliffkoroll on Jun 6, 2011 12:23 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
yes, it looks like you nailed it
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
Sarcasm noted
I’m glad you were pleased with what you saw this season.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
i thought it was an excruciating year
as I mentioned regularly during the season. the hawks were not a good team in the third period this year, which is torture to fans. i get it.
but i resisted the urge to say “if only…”
I thought we all felt going in it was gonna be a tough year, the team had much less depth and size.
all things considered, I can’t say I expected much more out of this team.
what was your expectation?
We like our people!
I didn't think we would win the cup again
but I have to say with the core we kept I was expecting a cleaner season
It doesn't hurt to be optimistic. You can always cry later.
same
i expected to not be wishing and hoping that the wild would save us and get us into the playoffs, i expected not to lose to teams like the oilers, i expected to be able to hold a lead and win games, and the list goes on. Were we going to repeat? probably not, but more often then not, felt like the team shit the bed in unacceptable ways.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
I expected a relatively easy route into the playoffs
But I did not expect the Western Conference to be so loaded.
I figured it'd be tough with the turnover we had
but it was a bit more difficult then I thought, and agree, didn’t expect the west to be so clogged where the road difference between 4th and 8th was like 2 points.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
in other words
you didn’t expect the #9 team in the conference to have 95 points, with a shot at reaching 97 on the last day of the season.
neither did I. of course, this expectation has nothing to do with the Hawks.
We like our people!
its partially the west as a whole being
so damn clogged that you could jump the ranks with even just one spot – that doesn’t have to do with the Hawks. What does have to do with the Hawks is my expectations that they wouldn’t lose against teams they had no business losing against, expecting that they would be able to close those games where they had the lead (or were tied), etc…where and how we ended up this season isn’t simple, imo. Its a combination of many factors, some of which aren’t the Hawks fault, and some of which are.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
well
they had 97 points. i guess i expected ‘em to maybe hit 100, but i’d have been surprised at more than that.
We like our people!
yeah I mean I never thought they were going to win the division for example
no matter how much I wished they could get there (got a little optimistic when they went on that streak, then came crashing down). And the west was obviously tough as hell, but a few bounces go differently, and who knows.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
I expected them to seriously fight for the Central Division Championship.
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
I had a pretty good idea that wasn't gonna happen
…except inthe unlikely event that all the new guys performed way above expectations (and clicked immediately)
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
Conference Finals at least.
I expected to have Patrick Sharp interested in his own zone.
I expected to have Duncan Keith resembling Duncan Keith for more than a handful of games.
I expected Hjalmarsson to hold onto the puck for longer than 6 milliseconds.
I expected Kane to have the energy to dominate when he was out there, even if the bottom of the forward corps was lacking.
I expected Quenneville to have finally gotten past his achilles heel of trotting out oafs that impede the game he purportedly wants to play.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
what can i say?
Just a bit better luck here and there and the Hawks coulda been the #4 seed, without any of the individual expectations you cite above being realized. Based on how they played against Vancouver, it’s not a stretch to imagine them getting to the WCF against lesser opponents.
Suppose the Hawks got the #4 seed and lost to the Nucks in the WCF instead. As it is, that series couldn’t have been any closer than the 1st round loss (OT Game 7) was, but I presume based on your expectation for the team that you would have been much more satisfied.
Going the other way, what if the individual expectations you mentioned had been met? How much better would the Hawks have been? Seems to me they would have been better than the team that is basically rolling through the playoffs right now.
We like our people!
If we’re simply going by the transitive property, then yes they should have. But things don’t necessarily work out that way.
In your first hypothetical, I would have been overall satisfied in the outcome of the season, relative to what had transpired in the first 82 games, but would caution against that end result fooling a) the general public into thinking that the team needed less work than it does and b) the team itself into believing it can just “turn it on” when it feels like it, something we heard for a good 4 months from the Hawks themselves and it never really happened.
And had those expectations been met, realistically, the team could have won the division. Even as the standings ended up, they were only 6 points behind Detroit. Which would have led to a less difficult draw and home ice, and a better shot in the playoffs, not only because of those two factors, but there would have been actual observed factors to base a prediction of a stronger showing on rather than “Well, they’ve really got to perform a lot better than they did and they always seem to have the Nucks’ number”.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
luck vs. clutch
the feather article I linked to above recounts twelve games this season when the Hawks were ahead or tied in the third period and get nothing. Zip outta 24 possible. I find this staggering, even though I’m sitting down. OK, i’m actually staggering in my chair here.
how one feels about those games is how one feels about the Hawks’ season, IMO.
i still don’t see how your individual expectations don’t translate into a team expectation that the Hawks should have been an unstoppable juggernaut, which was the point of my original comment.
We like our people!
Unstoppable juggernaut? No. Much better than what we saw? Yes.
And I don’t see where any of the individual expectations I had were unreasonable or unwarranted.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
yeah i've been puzzlng over this
I agree that Keith had a disappointing season.
I think Kane plateaued or even slipped a bit this year- he’s too young to do that.
I think a line with Hossa and Sharp on it should be much better than it was.
I think the minutes given to Boynton and Scott were dumb and costly.
I agree that Nintendo dropped off, particulalry early in the year.
If we’re agreed that lots of individuals didn’t meet expectations, how can I maintain that, overall, the team was close to my expectations? Well…
Toews, Crawford, and, yes, ginger, outperformed, Seebs was solid, and Bolland dug himself out of a hole.
But I just don’t think the individual drop-offs were as bad as y’all do, and, as a champion of the “bad luck” school of thought, I don’t think this team, or this season, was as bad as y’all do.
And as I’ve mentioned, when healthy, the Hawks were in fact as good as anyone this year, gong 19-5-3 after Thanksgiving. Consider that after the Hawks took three (almost four) in a row off the Nucks, Vancouver has proceeded to go 10-3 against the “best” in the league. Damn, I think, what might have been!
We like our people!
I think the Nucks series has it's unique issue
The mental aspect of the Vancouver players. Their record after the 1st round shows what kind of team they are and (imo) their thoughts of “Oh no, it’s those damn Hawks again” contributed greatly to the series going 7
On board with Team Live Bad Ass
maybe
the alternative is that the Hawks, when healthy, are just that good.
A line-up that included Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, and Bolland pretty much whipped everyone this year, not just the Nucks.
We like our people!
D2K needs to regain his form or else the ‘Hawks have nobody that can contain anyone’s top line.
The ‘Hawks can’t have another season of having teams top units expose them consistently like the Ducks, Sharks, and Wings did for the majority of the season.
Defensively it needs to be much better. It has to be as the offence (if healthy) should take care of itself.
Proud fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks and the 2010 Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers.
"You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself into one."
i have to admit
the way it was talked up here, I expected a line with Toews and Hossa to blow up as well. I’m not saying they were bad or anything, and yes they were only together a game or two, but the way that combo is touted here, I really thought they’d get on a line and just blow everyone out of the water. And they didn’t. Probably an unrealistic expectation, but still. On the other hand, who knew a line like Kane/Frolik/Smith would look so good when they were together – even though it was for only a short time. And that Bolland/Frolik/Bickell would be damn amazing.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
I think everyone is overrating the Canucks comeback just a little here as if the ’Hawks were that close to winning it again.
I think we need to be a little honest and consider the fact that if the ‘Hawks had won their last game of the season they would’ve drawn the Ducks and the Getzlaf-Perry-Ryan juggernaut of a top line with no real solution as to how to stop it and probably lose to the Ducks. Would the mood here be different? My guess is absolutely.
I think with a few changes the ’Hawks can regain that form that made them Champions. Status Quo does them no good.
Proud fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks and the 2010 Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers.
"You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself into one."
If they had done this for
even a quarter of the season, the overall outcome would have been vastly different. You could also make an argument that had Kubina kept his elbows to himself it would have been vastly different, but your point is valid.
Heh heh heh
…NHL legends Jack Skille and Viktor Stalberg,
I enjoyed that one sentence.
39 years of pain (1971 loss to Habs) vaporized by one OT goal.
Hey Canucks, guess what? Your players are classless idiots:
BOSTON (AP) — Bruins coach Claude Julien has criticized the Canucks’ sportsmanship in the wake of Vancouver forward Alex Burrows’ biting escapade in the Stanley Cup finals.
After Boston’s pregame skate for Game 3 on Monday, Julien said he wouldn’t accept the sportsmanship shown by the Canucks.
Burrows appeared to bite the gloved right index finger of Boston forward Patrice Bergeron during a scuffle in Game 1. Vancouver forward Maxim Lapierre then taunted Bergeron about the incident in Game 2, pointing his finger near Bergeron’s mouth.
Julien says if the Canucks choose to “make a mockery” of the situation with Lapierre’s taunt, that’s up to them. The coach says he wouldn’t allow such behavior by his players.
"Jonathan Toews: Youngest Triple Gold Winner EVER...EVER is a LONG time, no script written for people like that"
ugh man, can we go one post without getting into this conversation?
save it for the game thread at least
by putmeinthemadhouse on Jun 6, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
cool it, warning number 2
are you even capable of taling hockey without antagonizing people?
Second City Hockey
I'm Abe Froman, and I approve this message.
you're trying to troll Canuck fans on SCH
why?
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Jun 6, 2011 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Cause they all read this anyway?
More seriously though, I’m glad to see someone at least called out the hijinkery that’s been goin on. I doubt the league take a look/stop bein dumb, but it’s nice that someone spoke up.
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
Stuff like this can get called out all it wants
Until the NHL decides to put a stop to it nothing is going to change. Why stop doing something if you know you can get away with it?
It doesn't hurt to be optimistic. You can always cry later.
He doesn't like taunting
But he’s cool with his own guy throwing a water bottle at a fan.
Hey, you gotta give Lapierre credit for getting under the skin of the whole team, including the coach.
I know you guys don’t think Lapierre taunting is cool, but that sort of thing is what Burish and Eager did to great success last year against us.
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
"You can't come in my kitchen, kick my dog, and take a box full of ballpoints! Your ass must be crazy!"
It's kind of like Bolland too.
We like him and think his antics are funny because he is one of ours. If he was on another team we would be roasting him over an open fire.
It doesn't hurt to be optimistic. You can always cry later.
I don't think it is.
It was with Burish (but not from me), and Eager, well he’s Eager. It’s not so much lappy that bugs me as Burrows. How could you want a tool like that on the team you root for?
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
If you want an honest opinion, I'm ready to provide it
if you’re ready to listen. If not, I won’t bother. Y/N
Others might be, I'm not, but don't ;et that stop you
But before you start.
I like players like Toews, Seabrook, Hossa, Bolland (yes Bolland), and Sharp. They play and play hard. They are tough as they come. Guys like Burish, everybody here knows how I feel about him, so I’m not going there. Burrows shows no class and is wiling to do anything as evidenced by his play against my team and now Boston. He is a fine hockey player, but I don’t like guys like him even if they score 50 for my team.
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
OK, here goes
I’ve like Burrows basically since he joined the team in ‘05-’06. It’s been nice getting the goals out of him, but the thing I appreciate most is the hustle. He never seems to cruise around the ice like Bertuzzi used to. He get’s a bit of PP time, but most of his production comes from 5-on-5. He’s one of the team’s best penalty killers, killing 5 on 3s with Kesler in one of the league’s only 2-forward 5-3 units. I’ve seen Alex Burrows dive for loose pucks when killing a penalty far more times than I’ve seen him dive to get a call. He had his breakout year in ‘09, I believe, and people were wondering if the Canucks could keep, since he was a UFA. He was expected to be traded, but instead signed a 4-year $8M contract so the core could be kept intact, then proceeded to publicly call on his team-mates to take similar home-town discounts. Compare that to Anson Carter, who let the 33 goals he scored in his one season on the ’brothers line’ get to his head, and held out for big money.
He’s also scored some really big goals, and the biggest seem to come on individual efforts. He scored a SH breakaway game-winner with 1 minute left in a game vs Carolina in 09 that broke a 9-game losing streak where the team looked lost. Probably saved AV his job. He’s got 3 playoff OT goals, 2 that clinched series, and all three were solo efforts.
So in short, what I like about Burrows is the effort he has shown since day 1. What I don’t like is the cheesy hair-pulling, biting, diving stuff, because it makes me have to justify why I like the guy, when the rest of his game makes it obvious. I also don’t think he’s a goon, as some have suggested. He doesn’t fly around with his elbows high, or catch people late. So he’s not exactly Matt Cooke. Anyway, hope that helps some of you understand it. Cheers.
All those things might make me like him - if he didn't behave like trailer trash
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
how old is Burrows?
because if that’s what he plays like, than I can respect that. But given his maturity level on the ice, if he’s young then there’s hope that he could mature into a respectable player.
SCH Narc - check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.
I didn't realise he was this old
But apparently he’s 30.
Because a blog of alcoholics just isn't complete without a Scot.
...I forget the rest, but your mother's a whore.
I didn't know they made Twats like him all the way back in 1981....
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
now I'm just disappointed in him.
he coulda been respectable…..
but no.
SCH Narc - check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.
Nope. Douche yesterday. Douche today. Douche tomorrow.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
I dunno.
I kinda like the way Bolly does it because he’s usually subtle about it, which helps drive the other team crazy. What Lapierre did was too obvious and stupid — and showed even more clearly, IMO, that Burrows should have been suspended. I mean, if your own players are taunting the opposition about a bite, doesn’t that at least imply it happened?
Everyone knows it happened
Everyone knows the league didn’t suspend him because it’s the Stanley Cup Finals, and it was basically a matter of class, not health. The league is happy to dole out suspensions for class infractions in the regular season (blowjob-mime and sloppy seconds come to mind), but evidently less so at this stage. Cf. Nathan Horton chucking a bottle at a fan. Both infractions were relatively harmless, though neither belongs in the game. Finally, Bob McKenzie opined that a 1-gamer in the finals is like a 4-gamer in the regular season, for what it’s worth. The only ridiculous thing here is that the league pretended there was no conclusive evidence.
that's not the only ridiculous thing
i think it’s ridiculous to group singular events like hair-pulling and biting in with garden-variety verbal taunts.
i’m not saying Burrows should have been suspended. I mean, any fan of hockey has to appreciate the effort on that OT goal the other night, and the winner against the Hawks too.
but the guy deserves his own separate category for douchetide- he’s a one-of-a-kind prick.
We like our people!
by cliffkoroll on Jun 6, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is it, exactly.
The guy is such a skilled player. Why he feels the need to do things that put in in a category below Avery is beyond me.
So why not at least pay lip service
by announcing that the suspension will apply for the first 4 games of next season? The lame “I didn’t see nothin’” excuse by he league has made the whole thing a huge joke and that’s the part I can’t fathom. Biting does not belong in the NHL and by doing absolutely zilch, the league indicated that it’s okay.
If there's a regular season biting epidemic
Your point will be well-taken. I don’t think anyone thinks they can get away with that in the regular season. If everyone expects the refs to let more go in the playoffs, why don’t they expect the same of the league office? Why are people more worked up about the Burrows bite than the Eager destruction of D. Sedin, on what was pretty obviously an intent to injure?
I'll take this.
Because it was Sedin a Canuck?
39 years of pain (1971 loss to Habs) vaporized by one OT goal.
I can only give you my reasons.
I’m worked up about it because the playoffs are the only time most folks in the U.S. pay much of any attention to hockey. And what they’ve seen is that a player can bite a guy on the other team and the NHL will say it can’t do anything because it didn’t see what happened — even if everybody with seeing eyes clearly saw Burrows munch down. All of the analysts were saying the bite was completely classless and didn’t belong in hockey and Burrows would be suspended. Then nothing. It makes the whole league look like a joke.
I get the difference between playoffs and regular season but the casual fan doesn’t. Folks here saw Amare Stoudemire get suspended from the NBA Finals a few years back for simply leaving the bench during a fight, for God’s sake. Rules are rules, or at least they should be, and the league should have done something to Burrows, even if was to apply next season.
Fair enough, but
Fuck the casual fans. It’s because of them that west-coasters have to beg off work early to make the opening faceoff. Cater to the casual fans as much as possible during the regular season, and if that doesn’t make them committed fans by the time of the playoffs, then don’t screw over your committed fans by pandering when the chips are down. My CA$0.02 (worth about US$0.0204).
LOL re: the dollar valuation.
I know, there are a lot of reasons I’d like to keep hockey to myself and not have it appeal to the casual fan. But I kinda need the casual fan where I am, because the easiest games for us to attend are in Raleigh and (sadly) Atlanta. The Caneiacs are pretty into it so knock wood, I feel kinda secure there; but some more casual fans in ATL would have been nice.
Are you saying your opinion is worth more than an American's opinion?
(Yes, joking). But I don’t see why suspending someone for what should be a suspendable offence screws over “commited fans”. In fact, you could argue it does the opposite, as avoiding the suspension damages integrity of the game.
Because a blog of alcoholics just isn't complete without a Scot.
...I forget the rest, but your mother's a whore.
I don't condone biting, I really don't
But I’m not sure why it should be automatically suspension-worthy when other, more dangerous plays are barely discussed. Now, there is latitude to suspend if it causes injury. Is the owie Burrow’s purportedly inflicted considered an injury. I don’t know. I won’t pretend to understand how the league comes up with its discipline. But I do think it would have been overkill to suspend an impact player who has been pretty disciplined these playoffs for an infraction that was sillier than it was dangerous.
From the NHL's POV
In terms of legislating, intent is almost impossible to determine (see the Chara/Pacioretty incident, among others). Biting is one of the few cases where it’s almost entirely irrefutable that the biter intended to harm* the opposing player.
So while there are more dangerous plays out there, they take place during fast play and in a scenario where, as mentioned, intent can’t really be judged. You can unequivocally legislate against biting. Not so for dangerous hits and whatnot.
Also, biting is just classless. It’s just not done, like fighting someone who’s injured. If someone on the Hawks bit someone else, I’d genuinely want them suspended. But I’ll admit that if it was, say, Bolland in the SCF, I’d probably take your stance.
*However much it will inevitably fail through those thick gloves.
Because a blog of alcoholics just isn't complete without a Scot.
...I forget the rest, but your mother's a whore.
not a sure failure - the palm/finger part is a single layer of leather
thinker than a golf/batting/driving glove palm/finger, but not very thick and a bite could be a real injury
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
Wasn't aware of that
having obviously never handled hockey gear. Thanks for the heads-up.
Because a blog of alcoholics just isn't complete without a Scot.
...I forget the rest, but your mother's a whore.
Yeah, like Krome said... Only the top of the glove is padded.
The bottom (inside) is a layer of leather and the sides, are probably just nylon, or a stretchy piece of fabric. No protection, whatsoever.
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
I believe I did read it, but I can't really be counted on
to remember….
What were we talking about?
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
Maybe part of the reason the NHL didn’t suspend Burrows was because Bergeron stuck his hand/finger up in Burrows’ mouth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxmZWIX0278&feature=player_detailpage#t=8s
What is he (Bergeron) even trying to do? It wasn’t an attempt at a facewash – his hand only goes up to Burrows’ jaw. And then he raises his index finger separately. It looks like he’s trying to ‘shush’ Burrows.
Perhaps… he bit off more than he could chew.
So you justify the non suspension
because the victim put his finger near the perpetrators mouth? Well at least I don’t think I have seen that argument for it over here yet. Maybe I just missed it. Is that the new you got hit in the head because you were looking down defense?
It doesn't hurt to be optimistic. You can always cry later.
I don’t justify the bite. But think of it like someone taunting, asking verbally for a sucker-punch… then getting sucker-punched. Sometimes your own actions lead to people flipping out at you.
I didn't say you justified the bite
we’re talking about the non-suspension here.
It doesn't hurt to be optimistic. You can always cry later.
Well duy, Stacie...
If you put your finger in my face, you better believe that my instinct is going to be to bite it. That’s what grown-up humans do.
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
My bad, didn’t read it correctly. But lets break it down.
For the suspension:
i) He bit someone.
ii) It’s apparently in the rule book that you can’t bite people. Rules are rules.
iii) He. Bit. Someone.
Against the suspension:
i) What’s Bergeron doing in the first place sticking his fingers near someone’s mouth?
ii) These are the playoffs, where rules are not rules. And not just the playoffs, but the Finals. See also: Playoff OT, where murder may or may not lead to a 2 minute penalty.
I think it’s agreed that if he were suspended, it would have been one game for the playoffs. No one really argues about the length. But what about the regular season? Would it have been one game there too? 4? 6? None? If it was decided it was one game in the regular season, does that equate to one playoff game? (Answer: No, since you appear to get away with more in the playoffs than the regular season, and that’s probably a good thing).
So I’m really not sure whether it’s suspension-worthy or not. On the fence with it.
On the one hand, he bit someone… on the other, it wasn’t premeditated and/or gruesome, like Tyson biting Holyfield’s ear off.
Since when does it say anywhere that rules don't apply because it's the playoffs let alone the SCF?
This is my problem with the whole issue. Are there two different rule books, or is it just a free for all because you are playing for the cup? To me the rules should be enforced harder the closer you get to the prize.
If the players know they aren’t going to get in trouble for these “little things” what makes them quit doing it? Apparently they don’t have the common sense to stop it on their own.
It doesn't hurt to be optimistic. You can always cry later.
It's written in Dominik Hasek's crease
With the skate of Brett Hull.
yeah I mean at what point is something bad enough
that they’ll penalize somebody correctly. They don’t do it now, its just going to get worse because players know they can get away with that stuff. And I mean that in general – there have been some bad hits, and some calls that should have absolutely been made, but the refs/league ignored.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
I hate the argument about "it's the playoffs"
So what? If you do the crime you better do the time.
It doesn't hurt to be optimistic. You can always cry later.
agree completely
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
because he was "asking for it"
is not good justification for burrows not getting suspended.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
maybe this is just me but
someone puts their finger in my face/by my mouth, my first instinct isn’t to bite down, its to get it the hell away from my face.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
that maybe gives you the first little bit of nip
Burrows looked like a bloody terrier crunching down and grinding away
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
and the fact that he tried to cover it up with his glove
shows he knew exactly what he was doing.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
Rules are rules, and it turns out biting = 2 minutes
75.2 Minor Penalty – A minor penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct shall be assessed under this rule for the following infractions:
(i) Any identifiable player who uses obscene, profane or abusive language or gestures directed at any person.
(ii) Any player who is guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct including, but not limited to hair-pulling, biting, grabbing hold of a face mask, etc. If warranted, and specifically when injury results, the referee may apply Rule 21 – Match Penalties.
Wow, hair-pulling and biting, right next to each other in the rule book. So Burrows’ reputation is on the basis of sins less severe than a high stick that draws blood.
So Burrows’ reputation is on the basis of sins less severe than a high stick that draws blood.
PFFFFTTTTT
You can catch someone with a high stick, and draw blood… BY ACCIDENT. When you’re as big a prick and douchebag as Burrows, maybe pulling hair and biting is accidental too? It just sorta happens.
He is unbecoming of a hockey player. I hate that fuck. Him and Kesler, Lapierre, the Twins… they’re the worst collection of douche bags to ever be assembled on one team. Dirty hack fucking players who dive and taunt. There is nothing honorable about this team. Nothing.
I will revel in their misfortune as long as they’re in the NHL.
Yeah, I pffffftted when I wrote it too.
Just thought I’d put it out there though. But sure, the Canucks are irredeemable. There is nothing honourable about Manny Malhotra and Sami Salo coming back from career-threatening injuries. There is nothing honourable about the Canucks for Kids fund or the Canuck place children’s hospice. There is nothing honourable about players taking home-town paycuts rather than jumping for team to team for a pay cheque like Marian fucking Hossa. There is nothing honourable about a player that still pays tribute to his deceased friend after a big goal. There is nothing honourable about players who have been called soft sisters for their entire decade-long career, but who still gladly answer media questions when class acts like Mike Richards would be bitching on Twitter about it. There is nothing honourable about a douchebag over-rated ego-centric goalie who gives his goal stick away to a kid in the crowd after every three star performance. And yeah, I spell it with a u. Ease off on the hyperbole a little bit, eh?
Not to belittle their charity, but doesn't every organization in professional sports have some sort of charity?
Everyone is happy for Manny, although it doesn’t make me like the team any more…..even just a little.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Dude, just give it up
You’re clearly in the wrong place if you think any of that shit matters here.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
You're probably right
I probably should give it up. I guess the reason I joined this blog in the first place is that I was just astounded by the amount of people that weren’t willing to give the Canucks any credit for anything. Not everyone—CNS comes to mind as somehow who can say “I hate them, but…”. It’s the “they are the worst at everything ever” attitude that I’ve tried to engage with, to offer some perspective from the other side, and to see the response. It also helps me justify my support of this team, so in that sense maybe it’s a bit self-indulgent. Anyway, from now on I’ll probably just avoid the more rabid comments, and engage with those who genuinely seem to want to discuss the games and players.
I guess I just don’t understand the impulse to be here in the first place.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
In the first place, it was
“Hmmm, I wonder what Hawks fans are thinking about the Vancouver-Nashville series, given it’s between a perennial playoff rival, and a division rival who could only offer mind-numbing hockey should they advance”. Well, the answer became obvious pretty quickly, and there was a post knocking Henrik Sedin for a post-game quote. Everyone said he was a totally classless ass. The Henrik Sedin I’ve watched for the last decade is anything but, so I wondered if people saw this as a classy player who made a nasty remark, or as par for the course. Anyway, after the warm welcome I got on that exchange, how could I resist coming back. I think I’ve explained my reasons for posting here enough though. Anyway, I’m out now. Enjoy the game.
Pictured: A classy player (by Nucks standards)
Ok, so I admit I’m joking, but the kernel of truth is there. If you’re calling him “classy” there’s something wrong. I admire his skill, I really do, but he is a diver and from the (admittedly cherry-picked) quotes I’ve seen of him on here, he seems like an ass.
Because a blog of alcoholics just isn't complete without a Scot.
...I forget the rest, but your mother's a whore.
Didn't you hear the Canucks organization has a charity! Get over it!
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Here's one I'd never seen before
Because a blog of alcoholics just isn't complete without a Scot.
...I forget the rest, but your mother's a whore.
ahah yea I remember watching that
and Edzo going “And then a HUGE embellishment by Henrik Sedin there.”
I find it amusing that in both gifs, Donk is like “uh, yea, Honk does that. Uh, I’m going to gently push (other random player) away now….”
SCH Narc - check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.
I noticed him pushing Crawford away too.
Its really amazing how annoying that team is. Reading the blog over the past few days, I think you could make the case that we all now hate the Canucks at least as much as the Red Wings……if not more at the moment.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
he's committed to the dive
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
Canucks > Scum
on my hate-register because, apart from Bertuzzi, Franzen & Holmstrom, the Wings aren’t that bad. The Nucks just seem annoying from top-to-bottom, with a few exceptions.
Because a blog of alcoholics just isn't complete without a Scot.
...I forget the rest, but your mother's a whore.
Samuelson is alright, I guess.
Malholtra just hasn’t been with the team long enough to become a complete fuckbag yet….but give it time.
The rest can fuck off.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Although Samuelsson
does score annoying goals. Yeah, Manny seems OK. Wouldn’t mind having him next year. Could trade Johnson for him?
Because a blog of alcoholics just isn't complete without a Scot.
...I forget the rest, but your mother's a whore.
He may not even be in the NHL next year
And Johnson for Malholtra wouldn’t even happen in NHL 11!
Plus Johnson is a FA
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Time to update your signature
If I didn't know better, I'd think the Brewers were a halfway decent baseball team...
A new inspiration...
Check yo’self before you wreck yourself, because if your Honk, then hockey is bad for your health.
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
That's the one from Game 1 I think!
Been looking for that.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
I just searched Google
for “Henrik Sedin dive gif”. Funnily enough, it was actually one of the auto-compete suggestions.
Because a blog of alcoholics just isn't complete without a Scot.
...I forget the rest, but your mother's a whore.
by Germware on Jun 6, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
wow
it’s true! and I also discovered a site called http://hockeygifs.blogspot.com/
yay! bookmarked. :D
SCH Narc - check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.
Wow... Actually NOT a dive..
But look at the theatrics (yelling, crying, etc..)
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
how does that even happen
it went the whole way through!
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
I know, right???? WTF??
But man… The screaming and almost flailing and pointing was pretty funny.
The league should find it embarrassing, just go google henrik sedin diving and click on videos. OMG there are tons of them.
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
i admit to laughing
when he spun completely around because kopitar was still holding the stick
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
I believe that was an effort to make
sure that the stick was removed from Kopitar’s hands to make sure that it didn’t get removed and ignored.
Perfectly legit. It was a penalty, but yeah, the pointing at the face and apparent screaming was what made me laugh.
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
yeah I mean
I dont’ think that was unwarranted, just made me laugh, though the pointing and screaming was also funny.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
Spare us all the martyr act
You came to the site of your team’s arguable most bitter rival, and tried to convince the people here that they are in fact likeable, and now you’re surprised at a) our lack of belief in your statement b) us expressing irritation with your insistence on it.
Don’t you have better things to do?
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
Even a guy like Matt Cooke is, by all accounts, a great classy guy off the ice
Understand that I’m not comparing him and Henrik – obviously the skill level, responsibility, etc…are vastly different. But there are huge differences between off ice and on ice behavior, and that’s why I don’t bring that up when I talk about a player.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
There's not much honourable
about using a charity as a shield against criticism. And you’re straying into troll territory by baiting us with Hossa.
Because a blog of alcoholics just isn't complete without a Scot.
...I forget the rest, but your mother's a whore.
It's not a shield
It’s a counterpoint to the obviously ridiculous hyperbole and absolutism of the phrase ‘nothing honourable’.
Biting, hair-pulling, diving, and whining are all on the negative side of the honorable (spell it right, hoser) scale. When you take all the “honorable” things about the Canucks and add it to all the dishonorable things mentioned above, you get (at best) an even (likely very negative) rating on the honorable scale. Thus, no honorableness.
SCH's resident 8 year old
Alexandre Burrows on a team that has a captain like Lidstrom, Gionta (underrated), and Toews to answer to would change his attitude quite quickly.
Very good hockey player that just doesn’t know how to control his actions on the ice. Who does he have to answer to? Hendrik Sedin? Alain Vigneault? In there lies the problem.
The kid has a lot of heart and wears it on his sleeve way too often negatively (hair-pulling, biting, etc.) and positively (his tribute to his late friend Luc Bourdon).
Proud fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks and the 2010 Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers.
"You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself into one."
I missed that in the first read through.
What a douche. NHL players getting the best contracts they can……unheard of!
But hey, they have a charity!
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
I also find it weird they use Hossa as an example
When in actuality, Campbell is a much better example. Campbell went to a bad team – admittedly one that was getting better, but still – for a very high salary, whereas Hossa went from Cup contender to Cup contender trying to win, eventually settling here for a below-market rate (although admittedly over a long time, meaning he’ll get his $$).
Because a blog of alcoholics just isn't complete without a Scot.
...I forget the rest, but your mother's a whore.
I suppose AidanB will not be a fan of any big name Free Agent the Canucks pick up in the future.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
I am not
He’s free to post here, but trying to defend his piece of shit team is on a Hawks site and calling into question Hossa’s integrity while he’s doing it, saying guys returned from career threatening injuries knowing Seabrook returned early from a concussion that came from the elbow of Torres and Bolland getting his head slammed against the glass by Hammuis? … well… yeah… he can fuck off.
Not me, but I concur wholeheartedly...
Did I need to add that last part?
"Jonathan Toews: Youngest Triple Gold Winner EVER...EVER is a LONG time, no script written for people like that"
The shot at Hossa came out of nowhere.
But did you hear the Canucks have a charity and that the Sedin’s talk to the press? What brave men!
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
By the way
Telling me all those things they do off the ice, makes all the things they do on it, that much more abhorrent.
They’re not philanthropists who play hockey. They’re hockey players who give to charity. They’re known for what they do on the ice. Just think, because of your classless team full of douche bags, some dad gets to explain to his son at one of the charities that, no, biting another player and pulling their hair is not something you should do in a game. Neither is acting like you’re hurt, or playing dirty, or taunting the other team after scoring a goal even though your team is still losing.
How proud you must be.
i don't think
the reaction to the infamous hair-pulling was based on its severity.
same with the biting (for me, anyway).
it’s just…who the fuck does THAT?
We like our people!
Don't forget his unpunished cross checks to the back of a prone to the ice Dustin Byfuglien's head.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
There is the Rob Ray rule, and now we have the Alex Burrows rule.
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
Just a note Re: Stoudemire
Stoudemire was not suspended during the NBA Finals – it was Game 4 of the 2007 WC Semifinals between the Suns and Spurs (therefore he was suspended for Game 5).
Further, this idea of suspending them during the regular season for an infraction in the post-season sounds like a completely useless idea. Does anyone care if a player is suspended for the first 5 games of the regular season? The first 10? The first 15 even??? It makes the suspension look like a joke if you allow the player to continue playing in the playoffs and have him be suspended the following season. Absolutely no one will give a damn because it’s the first games of the season. If there is a suspension worthy incident in the post-season, it has to be dished out in the post-season.
Thanks for the correction. Forgot it was the WC Semis.
And I totally agree that Burrows shouldn’t have been in Game 2. I was using the “next season” more to counter the argument by Adrian that the league didn’t want to ruin the Finals by suspending Burrows during them, and therefore invented the “we didn’t see it” excuse.
It’s a lame argument but if that is the NHL’s concern, I’d rather he be suspended next season than not at all. What he did has no place in hockey or in any other sport.
Let me try to sway you around with an example:
Roll back to June 2010. Hawks vs Flyers. Pretend Toews and Pronger hate each other. Then Toews goes and does something ridiculous – like crosscheck Pronger’s head. Pronger out for the series. The NHL decides to not suspend Toews for the playoffs, but throws him a 30 game suspension the following regular season. Hawks go on to win the Stanley Cup due in large part to the injury to Pronger.
If you’re a fan of the Hawks, you would be pretty happy about this tradeoff, wouldn’t you? No Pronger in the Finals for 30 (relatively meaningless) regular season games next year? In fact, every team would take that tradeoff (well, except the Flyers of course).
Sure, it hurts you next season, but it doesn’t hurt that bad for the team… as for Toews personally, he loses 30/82 of his paycheque, so maybe he has to squeeze money for a bit. But that’s about it. That’s why I say post-season suspensions gotta penalize you in the post-season.
Perhaps what would be better is to suspend the player for the following post-season. So instead of 30 regular season games, make it the next 6 post-season games – regardless of what year it is. So if the Hawks miss the playoffs in our fictionalized 2011 season, then Toews still has a few games to sit in 2012 when they make the playoffs again.
Count me as one that is very interested as to what changes in discipline Brendan Shanahan can bring to the table.
Proud fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks and the 2010 Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers.
"You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself into one."
Seconded.
And Dale Hunter missed no playoff time when he cheapshotted Pierre Turgeon, right? Just the 21 games of the next regular season?
Personally, I would’ve been fine seeing Burrows suspended for Game 2 but I stopped trying to figure out what the NHL would do some time ago.
Work hard, play harder, rest easy.
It was because the Hunter incident (from what I remember) happened late in Game 6 which ended the Capitals season in 1993.
Hence, the suspension started the following season.
Proud fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks and the 2010 Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers.
"You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself into one."
Ah, right. That was the end of the Caps run wasn't it? Thanks, I'd forgotten.
Work hard, play harder, rest easy.
Bad example because we're screwed without Toews, but get what you're saying
Only I think the the player who did wrong should absolutely be penalized in the playoffs you are in. Punishing in the following regular season or playoffs gives players the right to injure and take rivals out of the game, with no punishment, giving your team the advantage, when you’ve done wrong and the opposite should be happening. Messes with the integrity of the game, imo.
Is it Matt Cooke who’s suspended for the first four games of the 2011-2012 season, or is that someone else?
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
What Eager did, was within the limits of gameplay, even if it was a penalty.
We could ask the same thing about Raffi Torres in round number one, in the first game back after a suspension for doing the same stupid thing.
It is different, and worked up because if someone gets HIT while playing hockey, that doesn’t surprise anyone – even if it is an illegal hit.
It is different and worked up because if someone gets BIT while playing hockey, people go “What the fuck?”
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
I wasn't wild about the Torres hit
It was a dangerous hit. I’m much more accepting when a player on my team gets suspended for a dangerous play than for an unsportsmanlike but ultimately harmless one, especially given the stakes.
I'm completely baffled by the idea that some headshots are acceptable
With the Torres hit, it felt like they made that rule up, about the area behind the net, out of thin air. The Eager hit could have caused serious injury – that kind of shit can’t be let go just because its the playoffs.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
and I believe most of us went
Eager WTF were you thinking? We thought it was nasty too.
It doesn't hurt to be optimistic. You can always cry later.
Yes, it was... No doubt.
My original point was simply that a hit is part of the game – dirty or not, it is part of the game.
You see a dirty hit, you just go… “Wow… that was dirty”
You see someone biting? Like I and some others have said, you go “What the fuck???”
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
Yeah agree
its not one of those things that you necessarily remember. Something as absurd as the bite you remember
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
Yup I mean no matter my feelings about any team or player
I have no desire to see them hurt.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
Yeah, the league is struggling
Trying to keep hitting in the game, while giving players a chance against hits they can’t defend. Torres didn’t get a suspension because the Seabrook hit wasn’t from the blind side. Seabrook had his head turned, but it was head on. I still didn’t like it. Maybe it was my “cheering for Seabrook in the Olympics” hangover.
The Eager hit was a classic 5-and-a-game hit from behind, especially given that he went batshit crazy on the bench just before it. Oh well, McLellan didn’t dress him again, so he was as good as suspended.
Seabs also hadn't made contact with the puck, which I thought should have been a factor
I don’t understand how Eager got the benefit of the doubt, if that’s what it was. He was an idiot the whole time.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
Has anyone watching a game actually ever seen
ANYTHING, that Dave Bolland has done to make otherwise sane and quiet player go insane on the ice?
Seriously, I can think of maybe one time that he might have been caught/penalized for something a little off the radar of normal, but for the life of me – I can’t tell you what it was, who it was against, or when it happened.
Bolland is just that good at getting under people’s skin and making them go nuts/vanish.
But nobody ever sees any of it. Opposition fans freak out about him, because their players bitch about him publicly, and that’s their prerogative, but when have any of you actually seen Bolland cross the line?
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
There was one
whack to the ankle he performed on one of the Sedins (the uglier one) last year which I actually really didn’t like. That’s about it that I’ve seen on camera, though. I still have no idea what he did to make Thornton slash him on that faceoff.
Because a blog of alcoholics just isn't complete without a Scot.
...I forget the rest, but your mother's a whore.
Yes... the whack to the ankle. Thank you, that is the one.
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
Part of it has to do with those iso-cameras. There are only so many, and they are “allotted” to the star players, and I don’t think Bolland is a star* player. Bolland probably does his stuff in a sneaky way too, so it would be away from the action. The main camera follows the puck, not the players.
Maybe people in the crowd who strictly watch Bolland can see what he is up to, but on TV it isn’t likely.
*Star being defined as marketable. Pretty dumb to have a camera strictly following around John Scott too, I think we can all agree.
That is all I'm getting at.
Nobody watching on TV has ever (aside from the ankle whack) seen Dave Bolland do anything that raises the ire of a fan.
Burrows stunts, and Honk’s Lougainis routines are always on camera.
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
well there's also the trip on richards that ahnfire posted the gif of
otherwise it falls under the legend of bolland because its never been caught on tape
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
I see a fair amount of the lower level stuff he does ... the big stuff is saved for away from the play
He really is a very dedicated master of the subtle irritating provocative behavior
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
Bolly taunts?
I don’t remember any incidents with this, but the Kool – Aid could be having it’s effects.
Notice I said it was kind of like it
I wasn’t comparing Bolly to Burrows or Lappy but why do the Nucks hate Bolly? Because he gets away with the little shit that pisses teams off. I wasn’t saying Bolly did something as stupid as bite another player.
It doesn't hurt to be optimistic. You can always cry later.
of course not
because that could leave immediately reviewable evidence, and Bolly is smarter than that. :)
SCH Narc - check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.
So what is the most important missing cog in our machine for next season?
Center?
scorer?
D man?
2nd Goalie?
Coach?
Other?
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
A complimentary top 6 forward, contingent on where it's decided Sharp will play.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
Is Brouwer permanently on your 3rd to 4th lines?
Or is he top 5 for you?
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
I hear pennicillan still makes that go away
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
while you were gone
a lot of the talk was about a 2nd line center, and whether or not that 2nd line center is patrick sharp.
I think a 2nd line center is the most important piece. It allows Bolland to do what he does best, and moves sharp (if we can afford it) to left wing where he is A) less of a liability if he doesn’t want to play defense B) a better offensive player and C) filling another position of need.
Others have argued that the hawks scoring numbers this year weren’t all that different from last year and therefore, changes on the back end are more important, but the Hawks just weren’t as good offensively at even strength.
Second City Hockey
I'm Abe Froman, and I approve this message.
I missed so much
My life always gets in the way of my hockey
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
didn't you have internet access in county lock up?
you either need to get busted in better jurisdictions or you need to get better friends (to put up bail)
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
I've worked really hard to get the my kids Dodgers poised for a .500 season
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
you can only work with the materials you're given
a .500 season can be a sign of coaching genius – or utter failure
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
We lost our 1st 4 and are now 5-6
We have taught them a lot of good things. They are enjoying the games
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
that's a very respectable turn around
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
yes but
a poor workman blames his tools.
not you laarmer- i bet you’ve got four automatic outs you’re trying to hide.
We like our people!
I said that we taugt them a lot of things
Go pick a fight with someone else
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
One of my avorite groups was a Mite House team
Last place in fall session, won spring championship.
How you start is often much the luck of the draw – how you finish can be influenced greatly by good coaching.
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
I miss my kids being mites
It was all joy for them then. Now, they have expectations and goons (yes even at bantam there are goons, as you know). Those mite games were very fun to watch.
District 6 over here in Michigan has completely done away with full ice Mite hockey. It’s all cross ice. No refs, No score. The rest of Michigan is soon to follow. No mite travel either, not that it was ever necessary.
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
Just noticed your new sig
How old is it?
Because a blog of alcoholics just isn't complete without a Scot.
...I forget the rest, but your mother's a whore.
6 hours or so
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
Mites should do much more small, cross ice, free range play
and travel for mites is absurd (yeah, we did it, but it is still absurd).
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
As Murph used to say:
Miss a little, miss a lot.
39 years of pain (1971 loss to Habs) vaporized by one OT goal.
Is it that we weren't as good offensively
or that our team D (mainly forwards) were brutal 5 on 5?
I say it was the forwards.
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
it's fair to say
that the forwards weren’t as good defensively either. I’d say that a 2nd line center who is fairly responsible defensively will give the team D a boost as well.
Second City Hockey
I'm Abe Froman, and I approve this message.
I'm going with Brooks
We have to sign him or all is lost.
Unless Richards wants to come for less than he’s worth.
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
I thought Laich was more of a winger?
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Maybe he's like Kopecky only better
The list I was looking at had him as a center, but they have Kop as a center too.
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
I think he was mostly used as a Wing until they traded Steckel.
Who the hell knows though. Your right, he’s like Kopy and Frolik.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
List of UFA's
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
Underwhelming list of Centers (as far as the Hawks are concerned)
The Center may have to come vis-a vis a trade.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
You could put together a really crappy team of ex Blackhawks from this list.
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
Don't be shocked when the corpse of Jason Arnott as passed off as a real soluion.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
I'm liking Craig Adams for 4th line
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
Can we have Aaron Asham instead?
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Handzus makes 4 mil
Fuck me.
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
Vrbata, Handzus, Havlat
That was a line here once.
The good ole days.
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
Didn't Handzus last about 5 games?
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Yeah
He tripped on his hair and blew out his knee
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
I vaguely remember him not sucking for those 8 games too.
That was a blow. However, it was the last season of the dark ages. Even though we missed the playoffs the next season, things were clearly on the upswing.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
he was really good ... for 8 games
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
He was good, but not 4 mil good
Has he ever been 4 mil good?
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
Short answer
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
I was at that game if I'm not mistaken
when Handzus tripped on his hair. I think I may have been there with about two thousand other fans.
Maybe.
...drink your big black cow, and get out of here..."
by The Fearless Freep on Jun 6, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Teams generally look for bangers/defensive specialists in that role
Its hard to imagine they would keep him on the team at his cap hit to play 4th line minutes. Although a Stalberg/Klinkhammer-Kruger-Smith 4th line would probably score some goals….
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
with 4 guys on the line they should
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
Stalberg/Klinkhammer....take your pick.
Although a 4 man line intrigues me. With all the stupid fucking Too Many Men penalties they took last season, it seems they were liking the idea as well…
Oh there’s another strike against Q…..lines changes are pretty fucking basic. Teach them.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
I was just thinking because of his defensive capabilities as a center
he would be good on the fourth line and I think Stalberg with Smith at wing on that line would make for a very tough match up for other teams.
D-
I think Q was just slightly better than an F. He got this team to the playoffs (barely) so D-.
Yeah he had to overcome massive roster turnover. And injuries. And fatigue.
But it was Q who put Boynton on the ice. It was Q who put Kopecky at center on the second line. It was Q who decided to play Scott. It was Q who jumbled the lines constantly. It was Q who wrecked Brouwer’s confidence. I could go on, but it’s getting kinda boring.
Q fucked this team up many times this past year and I think a couple of his decisions contributed to a loss. I hope he can learn to calm the fuck down next year.
It wasn’t so much he had Kopecky at centre for various parts of the season, it was the fact that he left the line of Kopecky, Hossa, and Sharp for so long and yet never pulled the plug at any point when it was abundantly clear that it was train wreck from the moment the calendar turned into November.
It still baffles my mind how this man could possibly think that Kopecky belonged on the 2010 PP more than the likes of Byfuglien and Ladd. Un – fucking – believable!
Proud fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks and the 2010 Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers.
"You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself into one."
Agreed...
The most egregious error in my opinion ways Q’s insistence on pairing Keith with Leddy for large chunks of the season. Even though Keith wasn’t playing at Norris-level with Seabs early in the season, his pairing with a very green rookie D-man compounded his issues. Additionally, that pairing had the trickle down effect of essentially leaving the Hawks with no top pair to play against opponents’ top scorers. Keith-Leddy, Seabrook-Hammer, Campbell-Campoli….who’s the #1 pairing? Who do you play against a line like Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry or Thornton-Heatley-Marleau or Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi or Burrows and the Sisters? The West has some ridiculously tough top lines and without a legit #1 defensive pairing, you get carved up.
I have learned to live with the constant line shuffling with the forwards, but playing line generator with the D-men cost this team a lot. Terrible decision that never made sense or passed the eye test when you watched Keith and Leddy paired together trying to play against top-level competition.
Also, John Scott and Boynton over Jordan Hendry has never been explained to me. Hendry’s not Ray Bourque, but he’s a hell of a lot more competent than those two.
The Boynton over Hendry choice wasn’t one of Q’s best of moves, but Boynton wasn’t as atrocious as others want to claim – at least in my opinion. He was quite serviceable and at least served as more of a deterrent than Scott ever did.
Having Scott take away ice time from a competent forward within our lineup is one question that I have no answer other than he was auditioning for the Toronto job until Reimer arrived.
Proud fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks and the 2010 Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers.
"You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself into one."
The first thing I think of when I think of Boyton is
the puck going off his face and into our net. The second is him injuring Hossa. I could go on. Its heard to think of him as even serviceable when his defining moments are things like what I listed.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
Heh heh heh...
those are the same two things that come to mind for me.
The third is the happiness I felt when he was gone.
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
sounds about right
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
when I think of Boynton
I think of how BSH was all “yay Boynton!” and Travis Hughes’ statement that “Chicago fans don’t know anything about hockey, and that’s why they don’t appreciate Boynton”, when someone mentioned that all of SCH was laughing hilariously at the Flyers for picking him up.
SCH Narc - check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.
another funny boyton memory!
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
by justforkicks on Jun 6, 2011 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
THAT, is awesome.
How’d that workout for those Fly-guys, anyway?
Can we get a little freestyle about it? – Take it away Country Stupid!!
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
Thats the first thing that comes to my mind too. Man, that guy is a tool.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
A final grade is based on...
the cumulative grades throughout the year. McClure absolutely nailed it with this one!
Q failed enough “quizzes” during the season (which were detailed quite nicely in the summary) that a D is spot on. This team was below average, and so much of that is all about Q’s decisions.
I STILL want to know who is ultimately in charge of setting the game roster each night. Given the way the Hawks have worked in the past, I would not at all be surprised if McD made the final call. Stan certainly seemed intent on justifying Scott’s being out there with his several comments during and after the playoffs.
My guess is that Q does what he’s told. He’d like to keep his job after all. (See Tallon, Dale, for someone who apparently did NOT do what he was told…)
They whine, they dive, they pull hair, they bite. Ladies and gentlemen, the Vancouver Canucks!
Please, anyone but Vancouver. Please....
McDonough or Bowman tinkering with the gameday roster is patently ridiculous
And as I stated in the review, Quenneville has a penchant for playing guys such as Scott or Matt Walker if he’s given them. Both he and Stan are equally culpable for Scott’s involvement on this roster.
However, in watching 24/7 and the discussions that Ray Shero and Dan Bylsma would have regarding personnel, I found it very difficult to imagine Stan and Q having the same types of talks.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
Could you please elaborate?
Didn’t watch that series, so could you toss me a clue on that one?
Very calm, cool, collected talks between the two of them, scheduled regularly, where they discuss what Bylsma thinks he needs and Shero tells him who is ready, who is a good fit, and if it works money wise.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
I'm trying really hard
to even imagine a conversation like that between Q and Bowman. Largely because I’m not 100% certain either knows what the team needs.
Q: Think we can get Matt Walker back? Love that kid’s toughness. Mangled finger didn’t affect his mobility at all.
B: Cap hit is too high right now. How about I get you a winger whose online profile says he’s played center. Think that might work?
Q: Maybe. I could give him a spin at 2nd line center and see how it goes.
B: Of course, the real plan all along has been for us to wait until Kruger’s season ends then bring him up for the playoff run.
Q: That’ll do, pig, that’ll do.
by flahawkfan on Jun 6, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
If Fred Shero was the GM here, Joel Quenneville might have been given the “Therrien boot” mid-season.
Proud fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks and the 2010 Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers.
"You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself into one."
What I'm wondering is
When the suggestion to play Scott @ forward or play him instead of Hendry, who thinks that is a good idea? All of them? Some of them? Scotty? Stan? Q? Who the hell thinks that.
I’ think Scott has really improved and is working his tail off, lets give him some shifts on the 4th line ahead of (insert actual forward name here). Or “Jordan Hendry is better than John, but how bad can he hurt us?”
It’s like the definition of group think right?
If The Hawks could just find a guy who is not afraid to pull hair or bite, they are sure to win next season.
Sarcasm button should have been in place on McD, but Stan....
I wasn’t serious about McD—it IS ridiculous. (Though not terribly far off from how Dollar Bill did things—ask Craig Hartsburg).
But Stan is a different issue. Q made comments during last season’s Cup run that he, Stan, Scotty and maybe a couple others, have a conference and go over the roster. I’ve no idea how often this happened, but Q made it sound like it was a group decision as to who played when. (I want to say it was in answer to some question about Scotty’s influence on him, but my memory is a bit hazy on this.)
They whine, they dive, they pull hair, they bite. Ladies and gentlemen, the Vancouver Canucks!
Please, anyone but Vancouver. Please....
Speaking of Hartsburg, he signed today to be an assistant with Calgary.
Detroit Red Wings - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
He deserved another shot after being hung out to dry by Bryan Murray and the “then” dysfunctional Ottawa Senators.
Proud fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks and the 2010 Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers.
"You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself into one."
the "then" disfunctional Ottawa Senators?
has ter ever been a non-disfunctional Ottawa Senators (since the franchise was reestablished …not the initial 1917 or whatever bunch)
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
of course
in any sport, gameday rosters are the purview of the head coach. Q’s gonna get judged for these decisions, and he sure is hell isn’t gonna put his job in Stan’s hands.
The coach might look for input from the GM if he’s a good hockey guy or the assistants, but ultimately, it’s his call.
The only exception is when management spends major bank on a FA, because now it’s the GMs decision that is being judged, so you will see cases when a player is forced down a coach’s throat.
I don’t see that dynamic in the Hawks’ case though.
Q knows the Hawks are small- it seems crystal clear to me that the Boynton and Scott decisions are 100% his.
We like our people!
Hell his stash get him a C-...
Plus burning a whole in the gut for the team, a D is painful!
Go Boston!
"How smooth must be the language of the whites, when they can make right look like wrong, and wrong like right."
by thepuckstopshere31 on Jun 6, 2011 2:41 PM CDT reply actions
A D grade is harsh, but it honestly is deserved. His mismanagement of Scott and Hendry and Boynton certainly didn’t help the team.
Lines were shuffled in game at whatever whims he felt and so often that at least several too many men on the ice penalties resulted.
D is deserved and he won’t last thru this season unless the players perform closer to their abilities. We have a team that should be capable of 102 pts next season and be in contention to win the division. I hope we can do it with coach Q..but I have my doubts.
.. slag ..
?
D is deserved and he won’t last thru this season unless the players perform closer to their abilities. We have a team that should be capable of 102 pts next season and be in contention to win the division.
What do we have differently from last year? So far this team hasn’t made the changes that will put us into contention. If we trot out the same product we will get similar results. Just interested to see who or what you think is going to be such a big difference maker.
Also, Q is not going to be gone this year. I see him sticking around for awhile. Sox fans always talk about how Ozzie is right on the cusp of being fired and it never seems to happen. Chicago fans love calling for people to be fired for whatever reason.
you realize there hasn't been any time to make changes, right?
Of course the team is the same now as it was in April. The Finals are still being played. At least wait until July before complaining that there haven’t been any changes
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Jun 7, 2011 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
all that's happening now is scouting combines and some negotiating of deals
nothing will even start to get going in the way trades until a wek before the draft and or FA signings don’t start until July
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
It starts from the top
This team was pretty much a failure this year and the coaching staff reflected this. Many seem to forget that this team backed into the playoffs. I really am concerned that Bowman is going to forget that this team struggled for the majority of the season just because they played a few good games against a Canucks team that just lost it for awhile.
I really feel like many on this team just didn’t want to play this year. The way they behaved and the cockiness they displayed was also just a joke. Everybody else was concerned about this team, yet they just acted like we fans were massive idiots. Then when it comes down to it, the Hawks do not make the playoffs and the players are shocked. Now luckily Dallas fucked up and we made it. But the fact that this team behaved this way for so long reflects on the coaching staff as well.
Also, John Scott is a fucking embarrassment. I don’t even want to see him up here in Rockford. I love gritty, tough players that will drop the gloves. I hate assholes like Scott who mouth off like a WWF wrestler. The fact that Q puts him out on the ice is laughable.
they just acted like we fans were massive idiots.
now why on earth would they do that?
We like our people!
by cliffkoroll on Jun 7, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
there's being disappointed in a team and front office that did not perform to expectations
and then there’s just a rage-induced sense of entitlement. You’re doing fine work with the latter.
How is time not healing any of these wounds?
Second City Hockey
I'm Abe Froman, and I approve this message.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Second City Hockey
Related FanShots on Second City Hockey
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Marek Vs. Wyshynski Radio: Game Show Friday, Bobby Holik, Game 6 preview, NHL ratings debate
- Trending Topics: In praise of Jeff Carter, Mike Richards; ‘While The Men Watch’ criticism
- The John Tortorella origin story, including ground balls to the face
- NHL investigates Coyotes; Shane Doan explains tense Game 5 handshake with Kings’ Brown
- NHL Playoff Beard Watch: Blood, Sweat and Beards of unsung unshaven heroes
