Let’s Get Physical
The moves over the past week have sparked a lot of talk about physical play and goonery. I wanted to unpack and share my perspective on this, consider the Hawk moves over the past week in light of this perspective, assess where the team is today, and consider what else we might expect for this season. I encourage anyone to patiently explain to me that I do not know what the fuck I am talking about. Thank you.
Up front, hockey is a very physical game (Hell, even basketball is a very physical game.) And as the playoffs approach and advance, the physicality is dialed up. There is a “line” between legitimate physical play and goonery, and when more is at stake, teams are gonna push that line. Any team that wants to succeed must have a strategy for dealing with this reality.
Also, my own preference is for the skill game. I could watch Patrick Kane all day. To suggest, however, that Kane (or even Honk or Donk) are wussies is absurd. To do what they do in a medium of violent mayhem only heightens the value of their artistry. Also, these guys have the puck on their stick a lot, and the rules for legitimate violence in hockey are mostly directed at the guy with the puck. You want the puck on your stick, you got stones, in my book. (Contrast so-called tough guys like Raffi Torres, who rarely handle the puck.)
When I put these two things together, I invoke those martial Romans and their crisp tongue: Si vis pacem, para bellum (If you want peace, prepare for war.)
Crude hockey player classification system
Type I: Skilled, big, physical
The best answer is to load up on skilled, physical players. Guys like Kesler, or Andrew Ladd (man, did I Big Yellow Taxi that one!), or, going way back, Al Secord. Genuine hockey tough guys AND genuine hockey skill players. The advantage to having such players is two-fold: you’re not sacrificing a “hockey spot” to get physicality, and these guys are on the ice for meaningful minutes if and when the shit goes down. The problem with this answer is scarcity. Seabrook is prolly the only Hawk in this group.
Type II: Skilled, big
Second best are big, skilled but not overly physical players- think Toews, Hossa, Buff. Guys who can’t get pushed around but aren’t going to make the opposition hear footsteps much. Again, scarcity.
Type III: Kinda skilled, big, physical
Next best is a “poor man’s” version of big, skilled, physical. Guys who can play some and hit some. (Bickell, Brouwer, Hjammer from last year.)
Type IV: Physical
Descending another rung on the meathead ladder, we get to Eager level- guys who can play a bit and hit a lot. The Hawks didn’t have anyone like that last year.
Type V: In a class by himself
And at the far end of the spectrum is the Genial Giant.
Type VI: Primarily skilled
Most of the rest of the team was primarily skill guys, and while there is a continuum of physicality here, it’s not gonna make or break a team. Last year, in decreasing order of physicality: Sharp, Keith, Bolland, Frolik, Kopecky, Campbell, Stalberg, Leddy, Kane.
Type VII: “Guys”
…and of course, some plain old “guys”: Pisani, Dowell, Campoli, etc. from last year.
How much red meat is not enough?
Framed this way, the question is: how important are “Type IV” players to a team? Not so important if your team has lots of Type I, II, and III guys, but looking at last year’s Hawks roster, they didn’t. We all knew losing Ladd, Buff, and Eager would hurt, but none of these holes were filled, making the Hawks one of the smallest, softest team in the league last year, although still highly-skilled.
Here’s why I think deterrence can be a factor. Other teams will naturally try to exploit a team’s softness. You’d be crazy not to. I recall a clinic administered to the Hawks in Calgary last February. It was the perfect script for beating the Blackhawks this year and, knowing how things get dialed up in the playoffs, I found it ominous. Suppose though, that the Hawks had, say, Carcillo and Eager on the 4th line last year. Does it affect the opposition’s game planning? Maybe I’m naïve, but I think it does.
From an individual player’s perspective, suppose you know you have “immunity”- i.e. there’s no one on the other bench tough enough to scare you. Does that not allow for a bit more of a sense of abandon on the ice (remember, it’s the playoffs now and everyone is jacked), the extra oomph in finishing a hit, pushing the line just a bit farther?
Most of us haven’t played serious level physical hockey, and none of us have played on the NHL level, so I feel like we all can only speculate about this, but this seems consistent with what Quenville was trying to accomplish with the Great John Scott Experiment- to fill a gaping hole as cheaply as possible.
When I look at the past week through this lens, I approve of most of the moves. Brunette is a Type II player, Mantador and Olesz are Type III, Carcillo and Mayers are Type IV, and O’Donnell is big anyway, and the more dubious ones (other than Olesz) are cheap and expendable.
RFAs: WTF?
Michael Frolik. You scored 11 goals last year. You will not be a top-6 forward on a team that doesn’t suck. If you think you’re so great, sign a one-year deal. If you want serious minutes on a seriously good line on a seriously good team, that would be Chicago. You don’t deserve $2 million- here’s $1.7.
Chris Campoli. You kinda screwed the pooch there, eh? The good news is, the Hawks want you back! I understand you also want to stay here- great. Here’s the deal- you’re the number 6 d-man, unless Leddy completely fucks up. Easy minutes, easy opposition, no special teams- $1.7 million- take it or leave it.
Viktor Stalberg. You’re a good kid- here’s $1.2 million.
Blackhawks: Do not cave in to stupid demands here- these decisions are where championships are made. These guys are all replaceable, and either they want a role on a team that is going places, or they don’t.
Next year’s roster as of now
Let’s assume the above sweet talking lands the Hawks their RFAs. At that point, the Hawks are prepared to go to battle with a better line-up than last year:
|
Line |
Pos |
Name |
Cap |
|
1 |
L |
Brunette |
2.000 |
|
1 |
C |
Toews |
6.300 |
|
1 |
R |
Kane |
6.300 |
|
2 |
L |
Olesz |
3.125 |
|
2 |
C |
Sharp |
3.900 |
|
2 |
R |
Hossa |
5.275 |
|
3 |
L |
Bickell |
0.541 |
|
3 |
C |
Bolland |
3.375 |
|
3 |
R |
Frolik |
1.700 |
|
4 |
L |
Stalberg |
1.200 |
|
4 |
C |
Kruger |
0.900 |
|
4 |
R |
Carcillo |
0.775 |
|
13 |
F |
Mayers |
0.550 |
|
1 |
D |
Keith |
5.538 |
|
1 |
D |
Seabrook |
5.800 |
|
2 |
D |
Hjalmarsson |
3.500 |
|
2 |
D |
Leddy |
1.116 |
|
3 |
D |
Campoli |
1.700 |
|
3 |
D |
Montador |
2.750 |
|
7 |
D |
O'Donnell |
0.850 |
|
1 |
G |
Crawford |
2.667 |
|
2 |
G |
Salak |
0.600 |
|
22-man roster |
60.462 |
||
|
Remaining swag |
3.838 |
||
From here, whence?
But that’s not all. Under this scenario, Stan still has $3.8 mildo to throw around ($3.3 million if the Hawks keep Fluffy around, although it’s harder to defend with the above roster; $3 million even if they overpay their RFAs.)
Adding, say, Chris Drury or a similar hard-nosed veteran FO/PK 4th liner costs maybe a million net (sending Kruger down saves $0.9 million.)
With $2.8 million left, the Hawks could cover just about any size contract at the trade deadline. Alternatively, if Olesz doesn’t work out, or the Hawks can move him, there’s another $3 mildoish to land the elusive missing top-6 forward. None of these moves will leave Stan incapable of finding the extra $1.5 million or so he'll need to resign Sharp.
Up until now, Stan has pretty much had his hands tied financially. Right now, that is not true. He has marshaled his resources well to this point, in my opinion, but how we handles the RFAs and what he does with his remaining swag will be his biggest tests so far.
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Interesting theory
Van tried something like that for the first part of the last year. (Glass and Rypien together) The one thing I kept thinking was “Don’t take a stupid penalty or give up a 2 on 1”. The other thing is the style of play changes in the playoffs. How much will the fourth line actually touch the ice? Hopefully they have some skill and don’t get stuck in the role of trying to push buttons.
SCH super unofficial Moderator - Thanks ahnfire
Not allowed to moderate at NM as I am too tall.
Very interesting take
I really appreciate how much thought and effort you put into this, it was a really good read. The one place that I have to disagree with you in player types is that Campoli should be listed as a “Type VI: Primarily Skilled” player as opposed to a type 7, and since that list is sorted by physicality not skill I’d say he ought to be slotted right between Soupy and Stals. Campoli’s not great or anything, but he’s CERTAINLY in a class above Dowell and the Pope-ah. I mean, if you’re going to include Kopecky (and to a lesser extent Stals) in that type 6 category then Campoli definitely does not deserve to be left out.
Agreed on Campoli
But still a great read.
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Jul 5, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah
i kinda half-assed the RFA analysis and was hard on Campoli. I reckon as an insurance policy against Leddy not handling the promotion the Hawks could cough up a little more here.
But dammit, isn’t SCUM hanging on to all their RFAs at attractive prices? It’s tempting since Stan has the money to throw whatever it takes at Campoli and Frolik, but I can’t help but think that Stan should be careful here. I’ll go $2 mildo each, but that’s it.
We like our people!
and everytime I hear someone mention Kopecky's $3 million
i think of Oshie’s $2.35.
We like our people!
Dude... That hadn't even occurred to me until I just now read it here.
OMFG.
As much as I loved/appreciated TomoKop… There’s no way in hell dude is worth more than T.J. fucking Oshie.
Wow. Just wow.
TomoKop best make sure he has good ol’ Uncle Dale on his Christmas Card list.
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
Nice job Cliff
I appreciate the work that went into this and it was an interesting read IMO. I can pick apart the rankings and play devil’s advocate all day, but I think your point with the classifications had less to do with what player belonged in which class and more to establish the general types of classes of players on "most" rosters.
Barring a significant trade between now and camp I think it is fair to say that this years Hawks team will be more balanced than last years Hawks team and hopefully that balance will make the team better. What it comes down to in my opinion is that in the Salary Cap era of hockey teams can ill afford to be wrong about how they slot their talent within their own roster and how much they pay that player to fill a certain role / player type. What is appealing to me about signing Montador, Brunette, Carcillo, Mayers and O’Donnell is that they all fit into a defined player "type" and barring a catastrophe they will not be asked to play outside their respective role / strengths. Players like Brouwer, Bickell and Byfuglein all have the one element that could not be taught…SIZE; coupled with flashes of potential and just enough skill to end up getting overpaid once their first RFA contract comes around.
In October of last year players like Leddy, Smith and Kruger were not on any honest Hawks fans radar for the playoff roster. And before anyone blows a gasket…I know injuries played a major role with those players getting their opportunities. Still, everyone would like Stan to have some cap space available for a potential deadline deal, but knowing some needs can be filled from within the organization only sharpens the focus of the type of player that will be targeted come the deadline, and that is great position to be in.
The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.
thanks
the team has a fair amount riding on Leddy, and he will make his share of 20-year old mistakes, but up front, not only have they added size, but depth. I like the way Stan has rounded out the roster with a couple placeholders, with the cash to cover the final two upgrades, leaving guys like Smith, Morin, and Kruger battling for roster spots.
We like our people!
by cliffkoroll on Jul 8, 2011 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well written and good points.
However, no rec from me because I can’t that hideous Olivia Newton-John song out of my head.
Thank you, sir! May I have another?
Rec'd
for the devastating psychological effect it had on the badger.
Lead writer for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter. God help us all...
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 6, 2011 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's get, Physical. Physical I wanna to get Phyyy-siiiiii-caaaaaal
Cliff, I fucking curse you for bringing me back to middle school. /Shakes fist.
Secondly, I completely agree on our RFA’s. Frolik I want for less than $2 mil. Stalberg I’ll take for a small raise. Campoli can take his demands back to Buffalo. It’s been my experience that even though one bad play does not a career make, a stupid play at a crucial moment is more of a harbinger of stupid plays to come.
Finally, I’m waiting for Friday to see the ruling on the Preds RFA’s. If SK74 becomes an UFA, then the above get’s alot more interesting. I only hope that that’s the reason Stan is hoarding $3+ mil.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
Let me hear your body talk. Body talk...
AAAAAHHH!
There are two types of people in this world - those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.
by The Fearless Freep on Jul 7, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
SK74 is a disaster waiting to happen - let some other team overpay for him
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
You expressed my exact thoughts more eloquently than I ever could
Bravo.
Am I paranoid? I don't know. I went to a therapist once, but I left before he gave me the diagnosis, cause he had it out for me.
by Detroit Must Die on Jul 6, 2011 6:06 PM CDT reply actions
Aside from the center/LW holes, that lineup looks quite sexy
It really is amazing that the Hawks are in this financially healthy position after what they went through last summer.
Dubinsky or Drury – or both – would be incredible pickups. Montador’s signing improves the PK defense, but the Hawks really haven’t improved the PK significantly with their FW acquisitions. If they sign either or both of those guys, Hawks will be favored to again go the distance. And also important, they’ll be able to stockpile reserves in Rockford.
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by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 6, 2011 6:50 PM CDT reply actions
Agreed.
With Cliff, and you.
Bitch and complain all anyone wants.
Stan has put himself (and thus, our Blackhawks) in a far, far better position already, heading into the next season.
There’s still time to go, there’s still work to be done.
Stan is starting to make a believer out of me.
I have a friend that is a BIG Flyers fan, but was unaware of the goings-on during the last week. When he heard that we signed Carcillo his reaction was “FUCK – we’re going to miss that guy on our 4th line, I don’t care what anyone says, that guy made a positive impact on the team all the way around. Congratulations, you guys will love him really really fast.”
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
If Stalberg gets more than 2 mil ...
I will eat my blackhawks old alternate black sweater.
by Billy Charlesbois on Jul 6, 2011 7:36 PM CDT reply actions
Speaking of Physicality,
Watch out for Carcillo. He’s a asspenny who will duck the real fights and pick on the other team’s skill.
"Mes que un club"
-Ahmad Bradshaw is undoubtedly a psychic genius.
by Scratch and Snif on Jul 7, 2011 4:01 AM CDT reply actions
A good analysis
and I’m with the comments about Bowman’s work right now. He appears to have a plan, one which is a good mix of aggressive moves and patience, and to be sticking to it. And it’s a plan that seems to make sense given the team’s current situation and to be taking into account the longer view. Can’t even remember offhand the last time it seemed like a Blackhawks management was successfully balancing those two things…which is not of course to take anything away from Tallon’s dice rolling that got us the big silver chalice, because sometimes going all-in is what the moment calls for. Just seems that right now Bowman’s more balanced approach feels more right — this core if thoughtfully supported along the way is capable of taking several more serious runs. Me like.
I also particularly appreciated this point: “To suggest, however, that Kane (or even Honk or Donk) are wussies is absurd. To do what they do in a medium of violent mayhem only heightens the value of their artistry. Also, these guys have the puck on their stick a lot, and the rules for legitimate violence in hockey are mostly directed at the guy with the puck. You want the puck on your stick, you got stones, in my book. (Contrast so-called tough guys like Raffi Torres, who rarely handle the puck.)”
That’s WELL DAMN PUT — it irritates the hell out of me that the meathead fans don’t get this. Skill players who shy away from the “high traffic areas” or always dish the biscuit when challenged (and we can all name some names from past Hawk teams, and no Honk and Donk are not current examples), that’s one thing. But a guy Kane’s size who does what he does while NHL defensemen are trying their damndest to hack or blast him to pieces? That ain’t no wussie, not by a long shot, and remember that if you’re Patrick Kane then since age 12 you have been the coach-assigned target for every big player on every hockey team you’ve ever played against. You think he’d even have gotten to the NHL level if he was allergic to contact?? Same goes for Sharp and some others. In particular for heavy-minute puck-carrying non-large defensemen like Keith and Campbell — only someone with plenty of toughness could play that role in that league. (Let alone put together a 400-game consecutive games played streak as Soupy did.) That it was Keith who had teeth blasted out of his face and came right back out to play was no surprise whatsoever.
No argument that the Hawks needed this offseason to fill a shortage of Type III/IV guys, mind you. It’s just been grating my nerves to hear some fans and writers (not here) talk about our core being “soft” this past season. Skilled yes; soft no.
thanks
totally agree on Tallon and, increasingly, Bowman. both the right men for the job at hand.
We like our suits!
We like our people!
"a good mix of aggressive moves and patience"
I see StanBo boldly implementing a specific plan – aggressive when a fitting pievce becomes available, and patient until it does.
He may have learned from the “versitility” BS trotted out when they try to make ill-shaped peices fit where they just don’t
Fighting stupidity since 1958 (it's taking longer than anticipated)
Confusion will be my epitaph.
It needs more cowbell.
But TomoKop CAN play at #2C - Just watch him light it up in FLA this upcoming season!
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
His plus/minus stat has scary potential with Top 6 minutes and no Vokoun
I wish him the best, though…he always played hard.
Thanks for the article
Really interesting to read your different player categories.. Cannot say I have ever put that much thought into it.

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