Morning Links (8/24)
Doomsday health prognostications and features on electrolyte drinks: it's the offseason. Twenty-seven days until preseason, forty-four 'til the road opener.
- Assistant GM Marc Bergerin feels they added personality, plus clarification on Chris Campoli. [Third Man In]
- An updated top 20 Blackhawks prospects. The future is now, Nick Leddy. [Hockey's Future]
- More on Patrick Kane's interview, wrist. Kuc has him saying he'll be healed well before the start of the season. [Chicago Tribune] [Sun Times] [ESPN] [PHT]
- Take Q out to the ballgame. [CSNChicago]
- Stanley Cup futures odds and speculation. 12/1 for Chicago. I'll take it. [Copper and Blue]
- DGB on the remaining free agents. Fairly or not, Campoli is certainly cemented as turnover guy in fan lore and psyche. [Down Goes Brown]
- Team favoritism on national TV is nothing new because human beings need money to live. [PD]
- NHL players are replacing Gatorade with the amusingly monikered BioSteel. [Globe and Mail]
- A fairly interesting visual compilation of shot placement. [Arctic Ice Hockey]
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Philly has 9/1 odds on winning a Cup next year?
really?
all right, this isn't going to be big on dignity
well of course they do
after all, they finally solidified that goalie thing…
The recent Crosby news probably changes that.
Although I think very highly of that team. They were DECIMATED by injuries last season and still finished strong. Wish the Hawks had that sort of juice.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
really?
Pitt is silly deep at center and did unreasonably well after Crosby, Malkin and then half their team broke. There were serious points last year where it was the WBS Penguins and some actual NHLers on the ice. Even with Crosby out, I have to think their chances are decent. Coaching and depth makes it so.
all right, this isn't going to be big on dignity
No doubt that Dan Bylsma put on one of the best coaching performances for a single season that most of us can ever remember getting the Penguins within a share of the division lead at the season’s end without the likes of Malkin and Crosby around to help.
The biggest question this year is: can they duplicate that feat without Crosby? They’ve done it before (2008), but this year the Atlantic Division is bit a deeper with Richards on Broadway, the Flyers finally getting a goaltender, and the Devils getting Parise back. The Islanders shouldn’t be a pushover either with Streit marking his return with Ryan Strome now in fold.
Pittsburgh is an interesting team if Crosby returns, but if he doesn’t then it will most likely be a first round exit once again for the Penguins. So with that, 7-1 odds are a bit steep given Crosby’s current prognosis.
Proud fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks and the 2010 Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers.
"You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself into one."
Finally!
Someone who doesn’t htink the Isles are going to be in 14th – 16th place!
There is a problem with outliving your enemies, it usually means that you have outlived your friends as well...
Honnor thy father - D. Vader (Robert Asprin, Myth series)
by burpchelischili on Aug 25, 2011 2:34 AM CDT up reply actions
The Isles will be no better than the 25th best team in the entire NHL
maybe 12th in the east, MAYBE
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Aug 25, 2011 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed. There is no way Ryan Strome is the difference between 12th and 15th yet.
I like the Isles.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
I think that at the rate they're going the Isles could very well be a playoff caliber team
in the not-too-distant future, but not yet. There are still too many holes in that line-up, I don’t think they’ll be pushing for a playoff spot until at least 2012-‘13 and that’s only if they keep improving at the same clip, which isn’t exactly guaranteed…
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Aug 25, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I am still waiting
for that instant heart attack moment when the Hawks and Isles meet in the SCF.
There is a problem with outliving your enemies, it usually means that you have outlived your friends as well...
Honnor thy father - D. Vader (Robert Asprin, Myth series)
by burpchelischili on Aug 25, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Who do you root for when they play in the regular season?
The fourth dimension will collapse in upon itself, bitch.
The beer vendor
Truthfully, I am and always will be a Hawks fan first.
There is a problem with outliving your enemies, it usually means that you have outlived your friends as well...
Honnor thy father - D. Vader (Robert Asprin, Myth series)
by burpchelischili on Aug 25, 2011 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
They’re counting on Van Riemsdyk and Giroux clicking early and often then.
Still, I think the Flyers will be one of the tougher teams to beat down the stretch in the East once the team starts to gel. The biggest question is: how much of a deficit will they have to comeback from to win the Atlantic once they get everything sorted out?
Proud fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks and the 2010 Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers.
"You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself into one."
crawford's pads
not sure if anyone already posted this or not, but here’s an image of the pads crawford will start the season with.
ahnfire is going to kick your ass
title it next time
I am a meat popsicle
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Aug 24, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
the pads look the same to me...
also the lighting in that photo sucks.
as does the lack of a title ;P
SCH Narc - check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.
I thought you were kidding
untill i go to yahoo sports and see it’s a real article.
October 7th, can't get here soon enough...
I actually love the Bourne Articles
It’s like watching a cheesy film that’s so bad it’s good
No no no no no
Bourne is nothing like Armies of Darkness, Bourne is more like “From Justin to Kelly” you just have to keep asking your self “why why why why why?”, it serves no purpose, the person making it thinks it is great, mouthbreathers love it, while the rest lose IQ points even contemplating WTF is it good for?
Preemptive Palomino, lets talk political stuff elsewhere .
Second City Hockey, It's not just Blackhawks Hockey, it's bashing the Cannots too! Is it October 7th yet?
Sarcasm is implied, unless I am serious, but I am seriously a Cubs fan, no really I am!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Aug 24, 2011 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Shit. I thought you were kidding, too.
See if you can guess what I am now.
by IndianHeadCrest on Aug 24, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
That guy really needs to get face fucked with a jack hammer
Nymphin' Ain't Easy Fly Fishing
I faithfully promise to add absolutely nothing of value to this conversation whatsoever.
by BigCSouthside on Aug 24, 2011 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
He likely saw it in a movie
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Aug 24, 2011 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions
no faith in my anger driven creativity?
well fuck you too
Nymphin' Ain't Easy Fly Fishing
I faithfully promise to add absolutely nothing of value to this conversation whatsoever.
by BigCSouthside on Aug 24, 2011 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions
that was much less creative
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Aug 24, 2011 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions
cant hit em all out of the park
I think i used up most of my good ones in a meeting today
Nymphin' Ain't Easy Fly Fishing
I faithfully promise to add absolutely nothing of value to this conversation whatsoever.
by BigCSouthside on Aug 24, 2011 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions
crazy talk?
Sharp centering Selanne and Hossa? Remember, they’ll be playing against bums.
$3.25 million last year.
Discuss.
We like our people!
Teemu's said
it’s Anaheim or retirement. He’s not going anywhere.
all right, this isn't going to be big on dignity
Awesome? Yes. Snowball's chance in hell of happening? Not even close
I would love to think that it’s a possibility, but Teemu has made it abundantly clear that if he plays it’ll be in Anaheim. It’s the Ducks or retirement, no other options
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Aug 24, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Even if he were open to playing anywhere else, that line wouldn't work.
Selanne and Sharp are too shooty.
Your mantra all off season has (correctly) been that Sharp and Hossa SHOULD work, but doesn’t; the primary reason for which is that too many plays end with Sharp firing the puck for Hossa to be effective. How would adding one of the most prolific shooters of the last 20 years to that line ameliorate that specific problem?
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
yeah I thought about this
but Teemu did rack up 49 assists last year (compared to 46 for puck-wizard Humpty Hump, who led the Hawks.)
Alternatively, bump Brunette back to the 2nd line and let Teemu play with DDN.
Sounds like it’s moot anyway.
I’m not sure Sharp/Hossa works- all we know for sure is it didn’t work too well with Kopecky. Plan A all along was to find a center for Hossa and move Sharp up with DDN. Easier said than done. The fact that Stan is toying with Kruger at 2C supports the idea that Sharp, ideally, is a 1LW.
We like our people!
I liked the DDB prediction though
“Winnipeg, according to people who are still hoping that the original Gun ’N Roses lineup will reunite.”
by Paul the Fossil on Aug 24, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Forget Selanne,
I want Jarome Iginla to center that 2nd line.
Stan, make it happen.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
BRING BACK ROENICK!
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
Great idea, no chance of it happening, but excellent choice...
They would just hand over the Cup to Toews on opening night, cancel the season and work on the new CBA…which would give 8 Larry Bird exemptions to each team…
This is my dream, make it happen Rocky…
Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny: Embryologic parallelism defines the Chicago Blackhawks rise to the top of the NHL
never happen
which is a shame. Iggy deserves a Cup.
all right, this isn't going to be big on dignity
Iginla deserve's 3 or 4,
but deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it.
I was being a bit sarcastic, BTW.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
truest story
unfortunately for Iggy, he can’t will the Flames to be less shitty.
all right, this isn't going to be big on dignity
I always
fight him every time the Hawks play him in Be-A-Pro on the NHL games…
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
i suppose you're right
but I was musing on a similar fantasy a couple weeks ago over at BlackhawkUp:
Good article John. You indicate another “top-6” forward is not in the cards, and I agree it’s unlikely, but what about this:
Come the trade deadline, Calgary is toast as usual. Jarome Iginla has a year+ to go on his $7 million contract. The Hawks deal for Iginla, you know, he’ll be pushing 35 and mebbe over the Ernie Banks “I wanna finish my career as a loser in Calgary” thing. His prorated cap hit fits this year, and dumping Olesz allows him to fit next year too.
OK, mebbe not Iggy, but someone like him.
I know we’re all in for the long haul, but something like this would dramatically improve the Hawks chances of picking up a Cup or two the next two years.
After that, he gone.
How redunculous is this line of thinking?
We like our people!
Hate to break it to everyone, but Calgary may not be toast by the trade deadline this year. That team soared once they rid themselves of Darryl “Pulford Jr.” Sutter’s existence within the locker room late last year.
Their defence is solid and deep, and they still have enough offence to win games. Kiprussoff won’t play as much with Larsson in the mix which should make “the Kipper” that much more rested down the stretch and into the playoffs should they get there.
Iginla won’t be anywhere near the trade table if they continue along the same trend.
Proud fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks and the 2010 Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers.
"You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself into one."
Shane Doan
If we’re going to talk about a player that is drawing to a close on a career that has never won anything or come close then Shane Doan is that guy.
Entering his final year that pays him $4.55m there is no doubt that A) the Coyotes will finally listen to me and are start to show the signs of their talent level parading them down the standings; and B) he’d love (for the first time in his career) get past the first round and take a shot at the Stanley Cup.
Although he has a NTC, I don’t see him not waiving it to come play for the ‘Hawks to be beside his good friend (who Doan mentored at the time) from the World Championships Jonathan Toews. Doan wouldn’t have to be a vocal leader all the time here as the ’Hawks have enough of those, but could offer his wisdom when needed like Campbell did last season.
And with Phoenix having to spend to the cap floor for the next season (and having a long standing love affair with Chicago rejects) the opportunity to unload an Olecz contract on them shouldn’t be that hard to negotiate. Now they may want Salak or a Kruger as well in return (Doan won’t come cheap), but it might be worth the price.
Doan on the ’Hawks would be something.
Proud fan of the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks and the 2010 Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers.
"You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself into one."
discussing an extension
is absolutely no guarantee of one getting done…
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Aug 25, 2011 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Iggy's not a centre.
And he’s a shooter. He absolutely needs someone to get him the puck (either his centreman or opposite winger). Last year Tanguay was his provider.
You are next.
by M7 on Aug 24, 2011 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Just pointing it out.
Other than trending towards being a shoot first player, he still has a lot of jam in his game and would help any team. You can also see how his game changes at the international level when surrounded by “better” players. A situation, to a degree, which would arise if he was with the Hawks. I’m not sure who he plays off of if in Chicago but I would think separating Toews and Kane would be a must. One of them would have to provide for Iggy (even though Kane would be providing from a wing position). Iggy-Sharp-Hossa wouldn’t work IMO, as you would have 3 shooters on one line.
You are next.
by M7 on Aug 24, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair or not?
Lets be fair about it, Campoli committed one of the worst turnovers in years for the Hawks. Wouldn’t have hindered my opinion of him if I was Stan, but its not like he didn’t do it.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
What made it worse was who he turned the puck over to...
Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny: Embryologic parallelism defines the Chicago Blackhawks rise to the top of the NHL
by Saskjet on Aug 24, 2011 9:05 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Fix my bad before the dangling participle police show up
“…to whom he turned the puck over”
Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny: Embryologic parallelism defines the Chicago Blackhawks rise to the top of the NHL
by Saskjet on Aug 24, 2011 9:08 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Winston Churchill
once allegedly upbraided an editor hung up on not ending sentences with prepositions thusly:
This is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put.
We like our people!
by cliffkoroll on Aug 24, 2011 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
What made it worse was that it ended one of the most anticipated games in recent Blackhawks history. I feel bad for the guy and generally liked him. But if that play doesn’t pop into your head when you think Chris Campoli, what does? Unless your thinking about that hilarious incident where he once scored two goals on the same play.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
Unfortunately
It’s the Leon Durham/Bill Buckner error of hockey.
Thank you, sir! May I have another?
At least Campoli's giveaway wasn't as bad as Steve Smith's own goal.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
by HjammerTime on Aug 24, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
That one was bad.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything comparable. In all fairness, Fuhr should’ve been hugging the post tighter, but you still can’t pass through the crease like that.
You are next.
by M7 on Aug 24, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Not close to Durham or Buckner.
If he shot it into his own net, than yes.
Examine the play. He made a ill advised low clear because Seabrook was out of position (covering the dreaded boards) and the forward, I think Toews. If Seabrook is in the middle of the ice where he is supposed to be, Campoli at least has the option to make a D to D pass and regroup. He still may not have made that pass, but Seabrook didn’t give him the option. Two things happen if Seabrook is in position. 1. He gives Campoli a passing option. 2. He takes away the middle of the ice and Burrows can’t get there after the turnover. I think I have brought this up before. Also what watching the replay, the forward in the middle of the ice, leaves too soon.
This is why I love hockey. Because we see one guy make a mistake, but it’s the rest of the team that
Grumpy Fuck
I hate those comounded mistakes.
What I meant by my comment is that he’ll always be remembered for that one mistake, rightly or wrongly.
Thank you, sir! May I have another?
yes
yes you have put forth the “Seabrook was out of position so Campoli had no choice but to give the puck to Burrows” theory before.
still don’t buy it.
We like our people!
I'll loan you the money
But here is a screen shot of the play. Buy now, Buy now!

Just before this shot, the forward was even with Campoli, but headed out of the zone. It would have been a suicide pass for that forward.
Look at Seabrook. Coke Zero is not a scoring threat. Also, the VAN forward is going off on a change. Seabrook is out of position.
Campoli made a bad play by not going hard off the glass or just simply skating with the puck a little. So much for the puck moving D thing. His teammates are not helping him at all
Grumpy Fuck
Challenge
Look at Seabrook – he’s clearly calling for the puck
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Aug 25, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
He could have been closer......but was still in position to take a pass.
Campoli could have retreated or put it across. He had two better options.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
by HjammerTime on Aug 25, 2011 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, Seabrook could have been closer
but Campoli wasn’t even being pressured. He had plenty of time and space to either move the puck across to Seabrook, who clearly appears to be calling for it, or to simply skate it up the middle
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Aug 25, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Pass to Seabrook option
I guess the question is does Campoli have enough time to judge how fast the VAN forechecker is coming through the middle? If that player intercepts the pass to Seabs, he’s sitting pretty, right in front of Crawford.
I agree with laaarmer in that Seabrook should be a few feet closer. If he is, the cross-ice pass is definitely a good option.
Let's Go Hawks!
The forechecker in the middle is going off on a change
Seabrook should not be outside the dots. He could also have given Campoli some backside support by heading back toward the net, then Campoli has the option to go behind.
Campoli should have skated with the puck. He should have known that Seabrook was watching the play. His forwards cannot accept a pass yet, and by waiting, he allows them to regroup. There was no need to make a desperation clearing attempt.
Grumpy Fuck
Your last point we can all definitely agree one.
Also agree that Seabrook should be right inside the dot.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
by HjammerTime on Aug 25, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
The D should not be outside the dots in this instance
If that forward going off for a change turns when Campoli makes the pass, we would have a similar result as actually happened.
He should have skated a little
Grumpy Fuck
Not to mention
that he just hadn’t been around for very long prior to that awful turnover. Maybe if this had been after a season that he hadn’t ended, things would be different, but as it stands, I’m amazed that he/his agent thought the Hawks wouldn’t walk away if it came to that.
the first time I say something smart, I'm putting it here.
Interesting take on the Hawks prospects
The comment regarding Beach was particularly noteworthy – took a much different perspective regarding his penalties in Rock Vegas last season, very objective about the time and circumstances of his development. Could we be that wrong about Beach? Sure hope so.
You mean should we stop calling him a bust after exactly one professional season?
Yes, yes we should.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
Block's analysis of what happened with the Campoli negotiations is complete crap
I understand what he’s trying to say, but there are holes in his argument almost as big as the one high glove side on Luongo
The trouble with the presumption that Campoli is greedy, or his agent is an ‘idiot,’ is if he really was asking for money in the neighborhood of $3M per, exactly how dumb are Campoli or his agent when an arbiter awarded him $2.5M?
That’s because the ‘Hawks didn’t bother arguing their case – they’d already had the date moved up so that they could release him sooner, the arbitration award was the number Campoli had submitted and the ‘Hawks were walking away from the get go. If Campoli and his agent had been asking for $5 million, that would have been the arbitrator’s ruling. That “evidence” is asinine.
If Stan truly believes this; that $1.5M is a true and accurate assessment of Campoli, and the Hawks really wanted to retain him even after acquiring Montador, why not just go to arbitration and argue it then? If Bowman’s right and he really wants Campoli, what does he have to lose?
Uhm, he could lose arbitration and be forced to pay Campoli $2.5M because there’s nothing even close to a guarantee that someone like Lepisto is still on the market after the Aug. 3 arbitration date. And even if Lepisto is still on the market, Stan loses some negotiating leverage after the arbitration award and likely has to pay him a fair deal more than the $775K he signed for. There is plenty to lose by going to arbitration, especially if you have reason to believe that the player will be awarded considerably more than you think he’s worth.
Even if its hindsight, I think most recognize by now Bowman pretty much knew the day he signed Montador that Campoli was a goner.
Completely disagree. There was still plenty of negotiating going on after the Montador signing, and if Campoli had been willing to take $1.5 million he’d be in, Lepisto goes elsewhere as the ’Hawks 3rd pairing is set as Montador-Campoli.
All in all, virtually everything Block has to say about what went down with Campoli rings incredibly hollow.
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Aug 24, 2011 9:48 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I enjoy almost anything Block has to say about the Hawks
but he gets obsessive about some subjects, even when the facts prove his point otherwise. He’s been really down at times at either Stanbow, prospects, etc. – and I never really understand his reasons at times.
I do generally like Block's writing on the 'Hawks
and the rest of the news and notes he wrote up were great, but diatribe about Campoli that took up the 2nd half of the column was just complete and utter bullshit.
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Aug 24, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Frank,
I should have come here and simply copied and pasted your post. It would have saved me a lot of typing over at TMI. I could not agree more with the above.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I agree.
That was a very good assessment of the situation.
You are next.
by M7 on Aug 24, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
“I cringe everytime I hear his name. Good riddance.” – Southerner on Lincoln in 1865
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
by HjammerTime on Aug 24, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I watched The Conspirator last night.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
....good story, horrible movie.
Just read Manhunt: The 12 Day Chase for Lincoln’s Killer instead. Great story about self-castration in that one.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
Self-castration?
Isn’t that like watching the Cubs?
See if you can guess what I am now.
by IndianHeadCrest on Aug 24, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
no, that's merely an exercise in general self-torture
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Aug 24, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Can a story about
Self-castration ever really be described as great?
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
Yes.
Think of it more as a hilarious side story in an otherwise fantastic book.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
Not really a story, more like a hilarious one sentence aside.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
Hmm
I tend to think…. personally that self-castration is never hilarious. Maybe that’s because people doing the thing I love most were still being castrated 200 years ago.
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
singing?
I am a meat popsicle
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Aug 24, 2011 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions
DH from now on shall be called “Il castrato voce.”
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Aug 24, 2011 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
I was a male soprano before my voice changed. Life woulda been grim for me in Europe way back when.
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
“When it’s time to change you’ve got to rearrange”
-The Brady Bunch
Let's Go Hawks!
by K_Dog on Aug 24, 2011 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
<.<
>.>
What?
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
It's a lyric from a song
For a while, the Brady kids formed their own singing/dancing group (I forget what they named themselves). At one point Peter Brady, the middle brother, was going through adolescence and his voice started changing. This voice change was devastating to the group, as it disturbed the wonderful harmonies of the sextet. After toiling about what to do, someone in the family figured out they should just accept Peter’s new pipes and incorporate the change into the group. This idea worked beautifully and was showcased in the song I referenced above.
Oh, the life lessons I’ve learned from the Brady Bunch. When you’re ready for another amazing story I’ll tell you about the time Marsha Brady was struck in the nose with a football.
Let's Go Hawks!
I'm sorry
but any reference to the Brady Bunch gets a great big PALOMINO from me. This is a hockey blog, dammit damnit damn it!
Thank you, sir! May I have another?
rec'd for the obscure BB reference
Now I’ve got that fucking song in my head.
See if you can guess what I am now.
by IndianHeadCrest on Aug 24, 2011 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I have no idea what your talking about....but this particular instance of self-castration was hilarious.
This dude found prostitutes very tempting, so he just removed the source of the problem.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
In olden times
up until 1870 in Italy, main place it went on, boys with voices that were considered particularly pleasant would be castrated so as to prevent their voices from changing. Kind of a gruesome practice I’d have to say.
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
Brutal
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
And to all the Campoli smypathizers out there,
quick to post “it was a team loss,” and “win together, lose together.” Well, its not little league. The man is paid to play well, and he committed a cardinal sin when he decided to blindly throw the puck up ice.
So that turnover by Campbell against Detroit in 2009?
Or all those odd man rushes caused by Keith shooting the puck into defenders shins last year?
Or that shot Sharp missed in OT earlier in the same game?
The list goes on. Trade ’em all!!!
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Aug 24, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Also, he didn't throw it blindly.
He looked up ice, and decided to give the worst “Larry Murphy dump” impression ever anyway.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
by HjammerTime on Aug 24, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Damn, grouchy.
I must admit I spent the first half, if not three quarters, of last year screaming at Duncs.
And bemused the idea that someone jokingly said last summer: “Let’s trade Keith right now, his value will never be higher.”
Ah, good times.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
re: Campoli
there are those who are not sympathizers, yet put little or no weight on that incredibly stupid play.
We like our people!
by cliffkoroll on Aug 24, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Cliff,
Count me in this camp as well.
However, from what I read about Campoli w/Sens and Islanders, this is not a one time stupid play. He is prone to this type of play at the most inopportune moments.
That’s why I won’t scream for his head or weep at his demise. I do believe that we got better with Lepisto.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's something I posted at TMI, but I think is worth sharing here
A different spin on the Campoli debacle…
Regarding the likely platooning of Lepisto and O’Donnell – and something that has been left out of this whole Campoli debate. Once O’Donnell was signed – not Monty – Campoli was a goner.
O’Donnell is arguably the best PKer of the defensemen the Hawks picked up this summer. Due to his age, you want to limit his time but get him into as many games as possible. Sure, Campoli may have been the best all-round player of him, Lepisto and O’Donnell, but I think the all-round defense – and especially the PK – are now better without him.
Paying Campoli would’ve forced O’Donnell to the bench and therefore wouldn’t help the PK much, one of the biggest items they needed to address. I assume Montador will be fine there, but aside from last season he wasn’t used much on the PK. Now the Hawks have two solid options on the 3rd pairing (plus Lepisto who has PK experience) instead of forcing Campbell, or to a lesser extent, Campoli into that role.
So basically what I’m saying is that when Monty was signed there was still a need for Campoli. But once O’Donnell was signed, there was no reason to spend the money on Campoli even if it was under $2M because O’Donnell is a big help to the PK, the area they needed to address. Now the Hawks just needed another cheap two-way defensemen to split the season with him and that was Lepisto.
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Aug 24, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Wait,
Do you mean to tell me roles matter and having 14 shooters and 7 small but fast dmen is not ideal?
I don’t know about this. I’m going to have to do some research.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
My roster for
Every EA NHL game would disagree with you. The GMs of the Pens and the Caps also inexplicably trade me Crosby and Ovi . I don’t like to lose
Stan probably did Campoli a favor
Hawk fans have a history of targeting certain defensemen to boo. A couple more bad turnovers and things could have gotten real ugly, real quick for the guy. My quick list:
1) Bob Murray
2) Behn Wilson
3) Brian Campbell
Any others come to mind as being singled out? I always thought it was stupid, but it did happen.
Well a person can work up a mean mean thirst
after a hard day of nothing much at all.
Bob Murray was pretty well liked for a long time though....right?
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
For some reason he became a whipping boy
towards the end of his career here. You’re absolutely right. I actually think it was after Wilson left that the fans moved on to Murray. I just never got it.
Well a person can work up a mean mean thirst
after a hard day of nothing much at all.
Wilson was on the Hawks a season or two longer than Murray.
I have almost no memory of Murray as a Blackhawks.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
They played together and got booed together.
My very foggy memories are that Behn came with high expectations and when he didn’t live up to them – BOOOO
Bob Murray was decent for a long time but when he started to get old – BOOOO
It was all very rational to some.
Well a person can work up a mean mean thirst
after a hard day of nothing much at all.
You're a great historian on this Board
Does my memory just suck or did they catch their fair share of boos back then? I swear that Murray was booed mercilessly towards the end after devoting an entire career here. It used to really piss me off.
Well a person can work up a mean mean thirst
after a hard day of nothing much at all.
Murray was definitely booed towards the end
especially when he returned to the Hawks. Kind of a shame. The guy could put up some good numbers. I’m also pretty sure he played more games with the Hawks than any other defensemen. When he went into coaching and GM’ing, it also didn’t help his popularity. But who was ever popular under Wirtz in his later years?
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Aug 24, 2011 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions
for some reason my mind draws a blank on the boos
I do remember my brother and I walking up to them in the second balcony – might have been 81-82. Murph had a cold one in his hand and was recovering from a significant injury. He was sitting in the with Keith Brown who was recovering from a bad knee injury that occurred when a Flyer thug cheap shotted him way behind the play.
Hawks must have not been that good because those two had the northeast corner kind of to themselves. (Figures a couple of d-men would sit on the side the hawks protected for two periods.) I looked him up and was surprised how long he played for the hawks – 14 or so years
That's well played
Greg Fox. Wow. Do you have a number for that guy? Was it 8? Tempted to look it up for no particular reason. Though Soupy was definitely booed, maybe it was more of an 80s thing.
Well a person can work up a mean mean thirst
after a hard day of nothing much at all.
good old number 2
of course
Well a person can work up a mean mean thirst
after a hard day of nothing much at all.
I remember that improbable run – I think MN was top seed. I was in 2nd balcony for most of it, and people were drowning out the boo birds, and literally getting into near fights about it. I think he played more confidently because he wasn’t being booed every time he touched the puck (no exaggeration).
That was the series where the Hawks won both games on the road...
Then came home to a crowd that was estimated to be near 21,000 (or for Fire Commissioner Quinn, 16,666) and got clobbered 7-1 in a game that featured several brawls both on the ice and in the stands. I believe that was the game where Savard spat at Minnesota coach Glen Sonmor. The Hawks took the series the next night 5-2 in a much more subdued Stadium.
one thing...
I’d have to look at the play one more time, which I really would prefer not to. Campoli couldn’t go along the boards with the puck because Toews was getting up off his knees along the boards, blocking that route.
Anything would have been preferable to what he did, but i don’t think he had a lot of time to make a decision. I think he panicked when option one along the boards was taken away.
In retrospect a horrible decision, but at the pace things are happenning at out on the ice it’s not like you have time to check the wind and distance, or look at the putt from both sides.
My only question is, could he have gone back to his defensive partner at that time.
Yes, in fact Seabrook is calling for it.
Raymond is clearly going off for a change so I dont think it would have been a dangerous pass. You can say Toews was blocking the route, but Campoli throws it that way anyway. He could have gone across to Seabs or even retreated back….
Its all hindsight….
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
if Seabs was calling for it...
then he really did panic and screw up. No doubt there were plenty of other bone head plays that game – he just made the last one.
“Oh somewhere in this favored land, the sun is shining bright.
The sun is shining somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light,
And some where men are laughing and somewhere children shout,
But there is no joy in Mudville, Mighty Casey has struck out.”
Like I suspect the Mighty Casey did after that ill-fated afternoon, Campoli will be lacing them back up for someone this season. I wish him the best of luck.
Just take a look at the video. Seabrook clearly gestures to Campoli for a pass.
May I should say Seabrook motioned for the puck, I have no idea if he called out. If he didn’t, he should have. My issue is really that Campoli could have easily backtracked a tad and set things up.
But this argument could go on forever and ever…
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
As James Brown would put it...
“It is what it is.”
Damn, if only sharpie would have aimed a tad higher.
Agreed.
The smart play, and easily the most available to him, was backtracking with the puck as he wasn’t under a ton of pressure. He got hot-potato-itis and chunked one. A high hard one off the glass under those circumstances almost never backfires either… (although I don’t recall if those on the ice were sucking dirty pond water or not).
You are next.
by M7 on Aug 24, 2011 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions
But also foresight...
That it will never happen again, since the perpetrator has been annexed
Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny: Embryologic parallelism defines the Chicago Blackhawks rise to the top of the NHL
DGB Article on free agents
He said this about Brian McCabe:
He can definitely still help a team on the powerplay, assuming the area they need help with is their “miss the net three times then fall down and give up a shorthanded breakaway” play.
Cracked me up he did.
Thank you, sir! May I have another?
Also the Samsonov line
“Obviously isn’t demanding way too much money, since if he was the Panthers would have kept him.”
by Paul the Fossil on Aug 24, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Hawks Top 20 prospects
Saad and Lalonde over Beach?
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
Saw that.
I can’t say I have a lot of faith in Beach anymore. Never really did (but it was mostly because I was so upset that we didn’t take Myers). But the widespread drop in his support makes me think it’s just as plausible that it’s one of those wildfire internet things—like, every time you hear it somewhere, it becomes more “true”, and so you hear it more and more until it’s “common knowledge”. I really haven’t read much of substance to back up his awfulness or the reasons he’s dropped so hard. Ya, his +/- sucked huge … but it was a terrible team, and one of the youngest, and they were a low-scoring team besides with little net depth.
www.mjt.org
Reading the review on Beach
Just another example of the mounting evidence that the kid is his own worst enemy.
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Aug 24, 2011 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, but the main point of that article on Beach was
that it was just his first pro season – and he was on a shitty team. Made me re – evaluate my earlier opinion on the kid, this season will most likely tell the tale.
Hmmm
I read every sentence of every one of those reviews, and IMO the tone of his review was completely different.
But I wasn’t knocking him, just stating what was again implied by yet another writer: He’s gifted with natural ability that most players would love to have, he just hasn’t shown the brains enough to use them.
Personally, I wish Beach would just get away from the enforcer role. Whether it’s his past reputation catching up with him, or him actually pursuing it, or the coaching staff, I don’t know. I only watched him live twice last season, but I believe his game would develop tremendously if he concentrated on it instead worrying about being a bad ass (and not being too good at it).
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Aug 24, 2011 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions
The thing is, though, with all these reports, they don’t really say much. “Beach went through long stretches of disinterest in the physical game and could be kept to the outside in the offensive zone at times.” Same goes for a shit-ton of NHLers. I don’t understand how anyone watching a dozen games a year and reading scouting reports measures “disinterest.” I don’t put much stock into that kind of vague judgement. I mean, it may be spot on, but it doesn’t give you anything.
I’ve only heard two tangible bits of Beach news. Wish I had the patience to find links. I think both came from within the Hawks, so I take these with a grain of salt, too. One was from Bowman commenting on the penalties and agitating, and he said Beach needs to play that style and that he plays his best that way, and Bowman actually praised it, wanted him to continue. Second, I read that they have no illusions that Beach will be a top-6 guy, that he needs to find a way adapt his role to a bottom-6 player. Hell, maybe that’s another reason why Bowman brought in Carcillo; it strikes me that he’s more the guy they want Beach to be, more than a Burish or Eager, say.
www.mjt.org
And this refutes every word I said
heh heh
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Aug 24, 2011 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a good bet he will get a whole year in Rockford, so let's see what he does.
The killer last year was his team worse +/-. He definitely has a better scoring touch than a Burish/ Eager, with a team high rookie goals scored number. But if he is lazy or not a team guy in his own end, then it will show. The IceHogs will be much better than last year’s squad, so he should be able to earn a spot on someone’s 2012/13 NHL roster with a good season. Especially if he is more prudent on the aggression front too. This coming camp will be fun to watch.
by NiemiNation on Aug 24, 2011 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions
that's exactly who it is
the ’Hawks took Beach with the 11th overall pick in 2008, Buffalo took Myers with the 12th.
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Aug 25, 2011 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions
In all fairness
the central scouting service did have Beach ranked 1 spot above Myers for North American skaters…
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Aug 25, 2011 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Nope Myers was rated behind only Stamkos, Doughty and Bogosian.
He sort of started to free fall as the European players in that draft weren’t rated as highly across the board. Why a 6’7" d-men who can skate extremely well slipped behind Schenn, Pietrangelo (neither being slouches…), Wilson, Hodgson was beyond me. Not to mention Boedker coming out of nowhere to get picked that high. And of course, Beach falling in our lap.
Personally, I think a team should always be wary of taking a Canadian in the top 10 (or thereabouts) that couldn’t make Team Canada WJ.
You are next.
nevermind, you're right
my bad. Makes it that much more upsetting that the ‘Hawks didn’t take him over Beach…
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Aug 25, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
St. Louis Passed on Toews
So it could have been worse.
So did Pittsburgh
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Aug 25, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll bet they wished that hadn't even more now that Crosby looks like he is going to miss some serious time.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
by HjammerTime on Aug 25, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Just watched Kane slip it through Leighton's 5-Hole in Game 6 on NHL Network.
Ah memories. I still feel all tingly while watching this game and the presentation ceremony. Good gracious, I can’t wait for some Blackhawk hockey!
I, for one, have a really good feeling about our chances this season. Our boys are going deep this year! BTW, nice write-up concerning our prospects in the system. Very impressive group of youngsters we have in either Rock-Vegas or there respective Junior/College clubs indeed.
I can’t wait to start posting the following during game days:
LETS GO HAWKS!!!
LETS GO HAWKS!!!!
LETS GO HAWKS!!!!!!
"It's The Chicago Blackhawks, man." ~ Jeremy Roenick, June 9th, 2010.
by Hawkynite! on Aug 24, 2011 1:12 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I see Lets go hawks and keep thinking its game night
dammit now I realize there is still 44 more days…tic tic tic
October 7th, can't get here soon enough...
See how much fun we're having at the new and improved SCH Street Hockey thread
Easy enrollment feature allows you to play hockey for college credit*
http://www.secondcityhockey.com/2011/8/24/2382048/sch-street-hockey-club
*credit only accepted at accredited clown colleges
by Billy Charlesbois on Aug 24, 2011 2:31 PM CDT reply actions
don't you mean
unaccredited clown colleges?
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Aug 24, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Send in ... the clowns ...
those laffy … daffy clowns …
Send in the soulful, doleful, SCHMOLTZ, by the bowlful … clowns …
Send in … …. … the clowns …
They’re … already … HEEEEEERE!!!

by Billy Charlesbois on Aug 24, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
When you play SCH street hockey, you play more than just a game!
SCH street hockey gets your legs moving and your heart pumping. It builds lean muscle and keeps you fit. Plus, it’s fun to play no matter who you are, or where you are (this week: Hoffman Estates, within 100 yards of an elementary school – but not a Chucky Cheese).
So let’s move, SCHers! Let’s skate, shoot and score! Let’s create (non-virtual) friendships and become part of the real-life SCH team. Just go to Billy’s FanPost to learn more.
I’m CNS, and I approve this message.
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Aug 24, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
what's next for the SCH SHC?
Endorsement deals? Announcers? FANS!?!?!
Chicago homer since conception in '87
The best and fastest way to learn a sport is to watch and imitate a champion.
-- Jean-Claude Killy
Cannots take note^
by TazerNation19 on Aug 24, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
ha, mind if I put that up in the real thread?
by Billy Charlesbois on Aug 24, 2011 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course he wouldn't mind!
Silly question, rabbit.
Thank you, sir! May I have another?
by Badgerdano on Aug 24, 2011 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What badger said
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Aug 24, 2011 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Check with POTUS's wife
Well a person can work up a mean mean thirst
after a hard day of nothing much at all.
Ville Leino will play Center in Buffalo.
Vancouver Canucks - Green Bay Packers - Minnesota Twins : Axis of Evil
Detroit Red Wings : China
Doesn't strike me as centre material but you never know.
You are next.
by M7 on Aug 24, 2011 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
"but the 22 year old winger said all parties want to make sure he is 100%"
Have to be 100% before doing those keg stands. True story as my fat lip will tell you.
by ieat_people on Aug 24, 2011 3:37 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Ha! Just noticed McClure's link a couple of days ago in reply to someone asking about Corsi
was to a blogger who tries to debunk Corsi’s usefulness (but completely fails) from 4 years ago. Wouldn’t a site like BtN been more useful?
Tell us how you really feel!
Corsi’s not a metric used to predict goals scored (as this guy completely misunderstands, and on which he bases his whole argument against). It’s used to show puck possession. Blocked and missed shot are useful and completely relevant because you’re typically not taking these shots from your own zone.
That why it’s fair to say Keith had a relatively great season per Corsi (best among defenders), but was terrible at making decisions once in the offensive zone. They’re two very different facets of the game.
Why include Corsi ratings in post-game summaries and the CI if ultimately you guys don’t believe in it, or only believe it is useful when it jives with your own eye test?
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Aug 24, 2011 3:47 PM CDT reply actions
I don't pretend to speak for anyone else
But I think that this argument is just another empiricist/rationalist vs.nativist intuition battle. Some people utilize statistics to better understand the game, some think that randomness and human changeability render statistics less useful. Some people require empirical evidence to make decisions or form beliefs, some people think beliefs about life are properly basic, they “just know” either by instinct or intuitive recognition of pattern.
I guess my point is that this argument is a million years old and the sides are largely decided by personality type and background, and the atheists and the theists are never going to convince each other because they begin from different premises. Each side can learn from the other, however, so while I definitely fall into the intuition category, I like to try to explore the way statisticians go about describing and predicting the game. (Not that I’m saying that Corsi predicts goals, because as you said, it’s not meant for that.)
consider the tetrapod ♥
do do do do, do do do do
Cliffkorrol has made try to figure out what prepositions are and Julia brought back frightening memories of trying to BS my way through philosophy classes at Loyola.
“Look we serve hard drinks in this place to people who want to get drunk fast. And we don’t need characters like you hanging around to give the joint atmosphere.’
That’s another thing. Where do you come off calling me Nick?
Well… Nick, that’s your name. Isn’t it?
What does that have to do with anything? I don’t know you from Adam’s off Ox.
We like our people!
Some idiots use number mumbo jumbo (empirical) statistics to try and prove
their bullshit philosophy. Some idiots prefer the visual (intuitive) to tell them what to think and believe. Bottom line what she is saying is that there is no god and all you fucking fools that pray to some stupid man in the sky are fucking morons. Right on Julia!
All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
heathen!
you bow down to Odin right the fuck now!
I am a meat popsicle
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Aug 24, 2011 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
F'n good, there, must rec...
Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny: Embryologic parallelism defines the Chicago Blackhawks rise to the top of the NHL
Oh god
My appreciation of the FSM aside, I’m not telling people they’re idiots and that God doesn’t exist. This is about hockey I swear.
consider the tetrapod ♥
Oh god?

I am a meat popsicle
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Aug 24, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Psalm 14:1
as King David pointed out, "the fool says in his heart “there is no God’”
I’m not calling you a fool – no need to throw stones in a glass house, it’s just that verse has always stuck with me.
I’ll get off my soapbox now and promise to say no more!
basically, the god of sarcastic atheists'
I am a meat popsicle
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Aug 24, 2011 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't Judge.
Lest yee be lobotomized.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't judge
I leave the judging to only Him and His Noodly Appendage
I am a meat popsicle
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Aug 24, 2011 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Ah, it's kinda like this...

Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny: Embryologic parallelism defines the Chicago Blackhawks rise to the top of the NHL
Google it, don't be lazy.
I learned about your god, the least you can do is learn about mine.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
King David,
I’ve been called far worse than fool.
I don’t mind I promise.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, Sky-cake
Why are you so delicious?
I people person. Uh, work good with children. People like me. Because I force them to...with violence!
by Second City Southpaw on Aug 24, 2011 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cliff,
First of all this was Julia’s post not mine. I was just replying to a request for “translation into English.”
Secondly, I’m going to censor myself here before this get’s out of hand. Our beliefs are our beliefs. They are right for us but usually wrong for others. The only thing I would suggest is no one try and force your beliefs onto other people. Bad things happen. Wars tend to break out.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep we're going to stop this
No more spaghetti monster, God, etc. before we spiral out of control. Back to hockey everyone.
Suck it up buttercup.
and now a message from your friendly SCH moderators

Saw this on reddit a few days ago. Couldn’t wait to post it here
I am a meat popsicle
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Aug 24, 2011 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
ok, I'll definitely stop now.
I mean no malice, just so you know. I’m just bored
I am a meat popsicle
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Aug 24, 2011 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Well I knew you were kidding
or did you have to explain the sarcasm to me? I’m not sure any more.
Suck it up buttercup.
Yeah,
Our moderator here was the very first one to call me an asshole.
She was of course defending her great friends and NONdouchebags over at Nucks Misconduct, when I called them out.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you being serious?
I’ve been accused of my sarcasmometer being broken lately. I don’t remember calling anyone an asshole on this blog, but I just might have (it’s hard to remember). It’s not normally my style, and you do know that everything that comes out of my mouth isn’t from a moderator’s standpoint. I have opinions of my own.
Suck it up buttercup.
now my sarcasmometer is burned out too
all of reality is crashing around us! Existence is ceasing to be!
I am a meat popsicle
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Aug 24, 2011 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions
You've definitely served the asshole card on me at least once ...
but it was before your moderator days.
by Billy Charlesbois on Aug 24, 2011 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Notice ...
that I didn’t even try to suggest that I didn’t deserve it!
by Billy Charlesbois on Aug 25, 2011 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
this was the funniest thing I read-looked at all day!
maybe all week. Wait, your Wideman post probably is at least on par with it.
One of the funniest things ever on this site.
I have to go get some more towels so I can wipe up all the water I just sprayed all over my desk.
Thanks.
"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance."
- Laurence J. Peter
Awe c'mon Stacie, Are you sure you don't want to start a discussion on
“What is truth.”
I’m going to bed, after I watch Dumb and Dumber for the 10th time
Wait what?
Are you reverse Wayloning me?
My reply was to Julia, and my link doesn’t embrace any particular worldview, it just points out that WE ALL have our blind spots.
We like our people!
Thank you
I was reading his response and I’m thinking I missed something because it seemed obvious you were taking a poke at poor Julia.
Thank you, sir! May I have another?
Sorry Cliff, I clearly misunderstood.
I thought that you were replying to me and saying that I should not demean or belittle the folks with an opposing viewpoint.
So naturally the first thing I did was try to deflect some of the blame onto Julia. That girl is gonna hate me soon if she doesn’t already. ;>)
Sorry Julia.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Although
your first sentence is a valid statement…
/person with an opposing viewpoint
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
DesertHawk,
I can assure you that I try my damnest not to.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions
You!
try damnedly…
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
What does that mean?
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Not sure...
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
A variation
off of “Your mom goes to college” if you will.
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
Jesus this is long
interesting but long…
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
Yep, still reading it myself
Cliff was very kind to share with the class today.
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Aug 24, 2011 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Finally finished,
I was a fan of the folks in the comments who were all…
“Nuh-uh not me I’m way too smart to fall for that” All of the immediate examples of exactly what the article was discussing were pretty awesome as well. “It’s only cause they were men” “It’s cause they were southern-white boys” etc…
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
Meh
it says we’re all doomed to have that bias anyway, why fight it :D
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
No, Canuck fans are the scum of the earth.
Crap is crap. No matter how you look at it.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions
the part that really got me thinking was the iceberg analysis
reminds me of an old Martin Mull album. (“I’m everyone I ever loved” – a combination of some good jazz musicians and and humor.) At the end of one song martin poses the question, “Do you want to know the truth?” The bartender and all the other bar-flys holler out “NO!!!!”
Actually, I part of it is a matter of hockey stats still being in a formative state.
I’m pretty sure that even the best hockey stats guys right now would agree that most of the advanced hockey stats are rather more descriptive than prescriptive. They tell us what happened in the past (and with the state of some arenas’ stat teams, they don’t necessarily even tell us that with a lot of accuracy), but in a lot of cases, their predictive value for the future doesn’t necessarily hold over even a month, much less a whole season or career. Part of this is because hockey stats are an infant field. A lot of stats like QualComp have only been around for a few years, and a lot of algorithms are still getting improved upon even as we speak (see for example the debate last year over whether it was better to use Corsi or +/- to determine QualComp and QualTeam). Hell, Corsi numbers themselves have only been around for internet statisticians since the lockout, which was when Jim Corsi first started talking about them publically. They’ve only been in vogue as an interesting metric since about 2007 or 2008.
Unlike baseball sabremetrics, which measure numbers on discrete plays with players that play the same positions all the time, the nature of the game makes it difficult to measure discrete plays, and aside from goalies, players often play on different lines or in different positions (also, it’s far more difficult for arena stat trackers to standardize their measurements of certain numbers, such as what gets counted as a hit or a SOG). As a result, hockey stats aren’t nearly as predictive as baseball sabremetrics. They are predictive to some extent, but I have a feeling it’s not nearly as strong as some people expect. This leaves room for the ‘eye test’ as a somewhat valid measurement, because it steps into the breach between the giant question marks that still exist in hockey numbers, and the reality that the numbers try to portray.
But hockey stats are getting better and maturing as the concept gets more familiar. Give it another 25 years in the hands of people like Haverchuk and BtN, then consult this debate again. I think you’ll probably find that whatever metrics they’re using at that time will be a lot more predictive than what we’re using now.
by Steeg of their own on Aug 24, 2011 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
All very very good points.
Especially them being more descriptive than prescriptive at this point in time, and the eye test filling the gaps. I would argue however, that even if they were perfected beyond any logical doubt, some people would still disregard them.
consider the tetrapod ♥
Probably true.
Heck, baseball sabremetrics have been pretty damn predictive for a while now, and some fans still disregard those.
I guess there’s something innately appealing in believing that a team/person can succeed, against everything the numbers say. It’s why we love the Miracle on Ice, right?
by Steeg of their own on Aug 24, 2011 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea, I had the same discussion a couple of weeks ago...
.. about whether you sense things in a physical way or are more abstract. And how you view stats is almost directly related to how your personality is hard wired to gather information.
Here is the link I was using for the personality test. I like it cause it matches you to Simpson characters. And I can pretty easily see whether you will like or will hate stats based on which character you are most associated with.
sweet, I'm Professor Frink
Glavin!
I am a meat popsicle
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Aug 24, 2011 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Ha Ha

I am a meat popsicle
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Aug 24, 2011 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm Barney Gumble

Had to do some searchage to figure out who the dude in the picture was, I’m not very Simpsons savvy.
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
I always varied between INFJ/INFP
when I took the test I landed 15/15 in the J/P category so when I got my result my teacher was like…uh, choose which one you prefer so I’m either Ralph or Lisa.
SCH Narc - check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.
Why? Why? Tell them that it's human nature.
I agree.
I have a hunch that these are the same people that call Sirott’s post-game show to rip a player that finished the game +3 with two secondary assists.
These people “know” what they see and don’t let a silly thing like factual evidence get in the way.
I people person. Uh, work good with children. People like me. Because I force them to...with violence!
by Second City Southpaw on Aug 24, 2011 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I like the fact ...
that people watching the game doesn’t seem to count as “factual evidence” in your post here.
Could it just be that they’ve taken the stats into consideration and believe other non-score sheet observations outweigh it? Why is that version of “knowing” not good enough to avoid derision?
by Billy Charlesbois on Aug 24, 2011 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Please no Michael Jackson photoshopped into the morning links!
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Aug 25, 2011 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions
The CNS doth protest too much
Like you don’t have Kaner’s face shopped in “Smooth Criminal” gear somewhere.
I call shenanigans.
I people person. Uh, work good with children. People like me. Because I force them to...with violence!
by Second City Southpaw on Aug 26, 2011 1:41 AM CDT up reply actions
I *think* part of it... etc
Jesus Christ, why can’t I type?
by Steeg of their own on Aug 24, 2011 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
This point strikes me as pedantic at best and useless at worst ...
just because there are two ways you can categorize points of view on stats doesn’t mean the discussion isn’t worth having (even over and over again), as opinions, interpretations, and observations change daily.
by Billy Charlesbois on Aug 24, 2011 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions
No...
I just felt kinda contrarian for some reason…
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
Welcome to my world, buddy ...
some people like receiving accolades from the principal and some people like rolling stink bombs under the stall when he’s making a doo. I’ve been a proud member of the second club for 30 years.
by Billy Charlesbois on Aug 24, 2011 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
you've been in school for 30 years?
I am a meat popsicle
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Aug 24, 2011 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
He said he was contrarian
not smart
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
Just wait until you two sons of bitches ...
are in a bathroom stall.
by Billy Charlesbois on Aug 24, 2011 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey now...
I’ll have you now my mother is a very nice purebred.
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
ha, joke's on you
I have an irrational fear of public bathrooms!…wait…
I am a meat popsicle
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Aug 24, 2011 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I absolutely think it's worth having.
I just don’t think a solution that pleases anybody can be found.
herp derp ♥
Julia,
Why did you change your signature from “consider the tetrapod”?
Are you trying to distance yourself from evolution?
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I feel
you’re probably reading way to much into it…
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
I don't doubt it, but I'm having a bit of fun.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, well
When I google “Chicago Hockey Sites” the 1st result is for the Wolves and the 2nd for the Canucks (fucked up ain’t it??), but I’m not sending people there. I thought you weren’t taking sides? Official SCH pit bull?
OK, OK, I jest. Possibly McClure just grabbed the first link he saw. There was that one time I was wrong, way back when…
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Aug 24, 2011 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Steeg,
You cheeky monkey. Trying to get this thread back to Corsi numbers.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
Damn.
Reply fail.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Aug 24, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Back to Corsi! (and the original question about why post it)
Not pretending to speak for the Triumvirate here, but I’m guessing that they post it because they believe it is useful, just not as the sole mechanism on which to base one’s assessment of team or player performance. Someone else may correct me, but if I’m remembering rightly in the 09-10 season, the team had an almost depressingly bad losing record when we recorded over 50 SOG. The 50 shot mark was like a stroke of death. Team and individual Corsi for those games was often fantastic, but they were still losses.
But yes, Corsi’s often useful as an indicator of possession. As a team stat, it can indicate one of those games where the Hawks dominated but just didn’t grab bounces. As an individual player stat, it can indicate league-high TOI (Keith) or in the case of Bolland his success or lack thereof at suppressing opponents’ top lines. Keith had a great season per Corsi because he was on ice a lot, and generally moved the puck successfully into the o-zone, even if he then proceeded to make really dumb decisions while he was there (leading to missed/blocked shots that still counted towards Corsi). That’s valuable information to know, but it takes the eye test (or a variety of other possession stats) to interpret what was really going on. So for people who’ve watched the game and understand how the flow of play generally proceeded, Corsi should be interesting information, even if it’s not indicative of W-L or of goals for. You just have to keep in mind what the number is, and what it indicates. It’s not a magic number that somehow predicts things like whether Lu is going to open his five hole that night. If you’ve seen the game and know the other factors that went into making that stat (TOI, o-zone possession, FO%, SV%, TO rate, QualComp and QualTeam for a player, etc just off the top of my head, I’m sure there are more), then it’s a pretty cool stat to know. Plus it is often more nuanced and descriptive of how the night actually went for a player than raw +/-. It’s easier to understand, more intuitive, and way better on an individual game basis than a number like PDO. So why not post it?
by Steeg of their own on Aug 24, 2011 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Really nice post.
I agree with Julia that stats are more descriptive then predictive. And much more useful over the long haul then in individual games.
I do think stats can point you in a particular direction. And I think stats can tell you if “Keith shooting into peoples shins” is something real or just something somebody noticed and is now overstated.
Well said.
Pure numbers alone are useless without context.
The key to marrying the two is objectivity, but therein lies the rub.
Fans are fans, you know?
Concrete numbers and a keen eye for the game are both subject to and undermined by confirmation bias.
I people person. Uh, work good with children. People like me. Because I force them to...with violence!
by Second City Southpaw on Aug 24, 2011 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Pretty sure
Corsi and TOI are not correlated, so to suggest Keith’s Corsi numbers are due to TOI is, um, dubious reasoning.
Corsi is correlated with zone starts, which explains why Bolland’s Corsi numbers are unimpressive.
We like our people!
Corsi can be related to TOI...
In as much as someone who is on the ice for a ton of time records more shots both for and against. On a team that statistically shoots way more than most opponents (like the Hawks), higher TOI will then correlate to higher Corsi. As long as the team is out-shooting opponents (and the Hawks have done so for the past several seasons), more TOI will mean better Corsi. Doesn’t mean more scoring, does mean better Corsi numbers.
by Steeg of their own on Aug 24, 2011 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I've seen corsi in two places.
In game logs +/- corsi numbers are from totals for the game. That Corsi number can go up or down depending on TOI.
In places like BehindTheNet, Corsi tends to be shown per 60 minutes of ice time.

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