Fire Down Below: Hawks Sign Segal

by McClure on Sep 1, 2011 6:15 PM CDT

As first reported by, well, himself, via twitter, the Hawks have signed Brandon Segal to a one year deal, whose terms were not disclosed. The signing was later confirmed by other Hawks media outlets. One would have to imagine that the NHL level salary and cap hit would be at or just a hair above the minimum; the only mystery is whether or not it's a one-way or two-way deal.

In yet another "can't hurt, could help" move, GM Stan Bowman has added more rugged depth to his forward corps, which ran out of NHL roster spots a long time ago. While it appears that Jamal Mayers and Dan Carcillo are penciled in as forwards 12 and 13, Segal shouldn't be ruled out for making the roster outright breaking camp. Though Mayers does possess Bowman's beloved versatility with his ability to take the occasional draw and kill penalties, Segal does have quite a few less miles on him, and is willing to play a physical game and initiate contact, something the Hawks lack, at least on paper And even if Segal is at The Rock, he'll provide some NHL experience and size that that team is sorely lacking at the moment.

The Fifth Feather seems to be of the opinion that Ben Smith's seat just got a little warmer, which would certainly fly in the face of all of the ridiculous prognostications (*cough* Jesse *cough*) that Smith is not to be ruled out as the second line center. While I personally disagree with that notion, even though I don't think Smith is top 6 material in the least, he's already shown to be a favorite of Coach Q, which would lead one to believe that he'd have to completely fill his diaper to not be at the adult table on October 7th. But, as is their M.O., the Feather astutely observes that the signing almost assures that we'll never, ever, ever, ever have to endure John Scott skating at forward again, and that can only be a good thing.

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So much for all the ‘We hope to give Scott more minutes’ talk. Thank god.

"Showin' her my Toews-face!"

by Hawk4Eva on Sep 1, 2011 6:40 PM CDT reply actions

bowman never specified that it would not be in the ECHL

by robondacob on Sep 1, 2011 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah, Smith isn't going anywhere

He’d have to have an absolutely horrid camp while Segal pops a hat trick per scrimmage for Smith to head to Rockford.

As far as I’m concerned, if he was added to play on the Hawks and provide some more of that “ruggedness,” then Stan-bow has lost his marbles. There’s such a thing as overdoing it. We’ve got enough players that provide the necessary grit. Another fringe players isn’t going to make our season.

by Ban on Sep 1, 2011 6:53 PM CDT reply actions

Just had a thought related to this

How close to the limit of 50 players are we at? I hope we’re not going the way of last season where we couldn’t make a trade in which we received more players than we sent…

Because a blog of alcoholics just isn't complete without a Scot.
...I forget the rest, but your mother's a whore.

by Germware on Sep 1, 2011 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions

We have like 46-47 on the roster?

3-4 left. We’ve got room

by SludgeFeast on Sep 1, 2011 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't like the idea of us making too many trades where we receive more players than we send.

Just saying, in those instances, the fewer players usually include guys that would have to be considered “core” type of guys on our team.

Scary, scary, scary.

Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.

by Powrfwd37 on Sep 6, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions

Out of this group

which two are most likely to be sent away at the start of the season? (Assuming everyone is healthy of course) And let’s remember, contracts do matter….

Rostislav Olesz
Marcus Kruger
Ben Smith
Jamal Mayers
Dan Carcillo
Brandon Segal
Viktor Stalberg

At this juncture, I fail to see anybody but Segal and Smith being sent to Rockford to start the season. Rocky isn’t swallowing another $3M+ on Olesz. Carcillo and Mayers were first day signings, they’re not going anywhere. Plus scratching them on a regular basis isn’t going to stunt any development. Stalberg was re-signed by the Hawks. If they weren’t sure he could make next year’s opening roster, they would’ve never put any effort into the re-signing and they surely wouldn’t have given him two years.

So it comes to Kruger, Smith and Segal for the last spot. Lacking in the center department, it would be a stunner if the Hawks pick anybody but Kruger to be the 13th guy.

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on Sep 1, 2011 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Technically,

the $3M on Olesz is already eaten. The only future question is whether an additional minimum salary will be spent so Olesz can be in the minors.

by stanfordron on Sep 1, 2011 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions

How so?

I’d like to see you try to explain to Rocky after just celebrating over unloading the evil Brian Campbell contract and paying Cristobal Huet another $5 million to play in Switzerland, that ‘technically, this extra $3 million is already eaten’.

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on Sep 1, 2011 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions

you might be exaggerating the money situation a little

i haven’t seen any evidence that rocky would rather keep money than allow the team to strengthen. of course i don’t know him personally, but from what I can tell, he doesn’t mind doling out some shekels in order to improve the team.

by robondacob on Sep 1, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions

Okay

“The player payroll for this season right now adds up to $XX million, which includes Olesz who is the guy we had to take to get rid of Campbell’s contract. It doesn’t look like Olesz is worth playing so we’ve decided to replace him in the lineup with ________ who will cost $500,000. So the player payroll now will be $XX.5 million.”

by Paul the Fossil on Sep 1, 2011 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Still don't see how $3 million is technically already eaten

And technically it’s closer to $12 million that Olesz is owed. That’s a lot of cheddar to swallow without giving the guy every opportunity to avoid being a sunk cost.

Olesz is not going anywhere.

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on Sep 1, 2011 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't personally understand why everyone is fixated on Smith? (not meaning you John)

I mean, the kid’s feisty and that’s nice to see, and he might have more potential talent than some of the veterans signed over the summer, but why rush him? He’s not an ideal top 6 player and never has put up the numbers in college or Rockford for people to assume that. 3 goals at a 50% Sh% doesn’t suddenly make him an offensive juggernaut.

To me, two of the factors to consider are waivers and contract. If my understanding of waivers is correct, since Smith signed his first pro contract at 22, he is waivers exempt for 3 years or 70 games, whichever comes first. Hawks are free to move him up and down. He also has a 2-way contract only paying him $65k in Rockford. That’s a $750k difference than his NHL salary with bonuses.

Segal is not waiver exempt, so if the Hawks tried to bring him up, they could end up losing him and paying half his salary. They could lose him sending him down (maybe to bring up Smith), but at least they wouldn’t be on the hook for his salary. We don’t know about his contract yet, but if it’s a 1-way deal (which I doubt) the table leans in his favor.

Basically, if all things were equal (which I don’t assume to know yet, because I don’t know squat about Segal), I would keep Segal. It makes sense from a flexibility standpoint and I’d rather have Segal sitting in the press box than a young player with some promise. I’d rather Smith get loads of minutes in Rockford.

Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.

by ChicagoNativeSon on Sep 1, 2011 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions

Olesz isn't going anywhere (for now)

considering the circumstance’s of his arrival, the gaping hole that exists in the top 6 (with no heir apparent in clear view), and the fact that that gaping hole becomes only more gaping if someone gets hurt, Olesz is going to be given every opportunity, and he will probably even recieve an opportunity or two that he doesn’t necessarily deserve. I think that Stan made that point abundantly clear when he declared that Olesz was not going to be bought out.

In order for Olesz to actually get assigned to sent away a couple of conditions will have to be met. 1) Olesz is going to have to be given an opportunity to play and completely blow it. 2) Some of Morin, Kruger, and or Smith is going to have to prove they are ready for a big boy role and ready to be given meaningful minutes and produce. Neither of those two conditions are going to be met by the end of training camp.

At some point this season Olesz may be given his walking papers, but it isn’t going to be anytime before October, and probably won’t happen in November or Decemeber either.

Segal doesn’t seem to fit, but I think his signing is nothing more than insurance policy, making sure that under no circumstances will the Hawks have to turn to John Scott for his services because there is no other option.

Am I paranoid? I don't know. I went to a therapist once, but I left before he gave me the diagnosis, cause he had it out for me.

by Detroit Must Die on Sep 1, 2011 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions

After a quick look at his NHL stats last night...

my first thought was that too: he doesn’t seem to fit. But when I looked closer at his numbers, including the WHL and AHL, the guys not a complete slouch with the puck.

He hasn’t scored much in the NHL, but he hasn’t taken many shots either (you don’t get many at 8 mins/gm). His .115 Sh% in the NHL suggests he’s not just a dumb bruiser. And he averages 2 hits/gm which is good for 8 mins TOI.

Four years of minimal NHL time probably means I’m reaching for straws here, but Bickell did the same thing until getting a full season and look at what they squeezed out of him. So I’m gonna keep an open mind on Segal.

IMO, you don’t necessarily want your best players all on the roster; you want guys like Segal and Mayers instead of developing players like Smith, Kruger or Stalberg to take that press box time.

Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.

by ChicagoNativeSon on Sep 1, 2011 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions

I think Segal and Kruger are Rockford material out of this bunch, with Smith getting the nod due to a better ability to fill in on the bottom 6.

I can’t say I’d argue too heatedly with you, though. I see our centres as Captain, Sharp, Bolland, Mayers. I feel Smith helps out more on wing than Kruger does at centre.

www.mjt.org

by ChicoMaki on Sep 1, 2011 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree a large portion of this debate centers (no pun intended) on Smith's ability to pivot the 4th line

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on Sep 1, 2011 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions

4th line center

Still seems like one of the bigger questions for the Hawks. They had 4th line free agents centers available. Why didn’t they go get one?

And who are the guys in Rockford capable of getting an injury call-up? You got Morin coming back from his own injury and then?

by DaleHalas on Sep 1, 2011 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Brett McLean

And whoever loses out in the Kruger/Ben Smith derby. Those will be the first two called up.

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on Sep 1, 2011 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Jordan Tate: So who are you? Are you, you, like, some special forces guy or something?

Casey Ryback: Nah. I’m just a cook.
Jordan Tate: A cook?
Casey Ryback: [Whispering] Just a lowly, lowly cook.

by Billy Charlesbois on Sep 1, 2011 8:00 PM CDT reply actions

My family and I were just talking at dinner

about how much we can’t wait to see this new Hawks team ~~gel~~ ~~jell~~ come together. This is going to be a fun season! Oh, and Badgers up 37-3 at the half.

Thank you, sir! May I have another?

by Badgerdano on Sep 1, 2011 8:51 PM CDT reply actions

Never say never

See if you can guess what I am now.

by IndianHeadCrest on Sep 1, 2011 10:00 PM CDT reply actions

so why does segal

have to fit in the roster? Can’t this be someone the Blackhawks plan to use to put together a trade?

Freedom Isn't Free

by LurkSomeMore on Sep 1, 2011 10:31 PM CDT reply actions

I don't see where Segal becomes the tantalizing piece that brings a trade package together

much much more likely he files under the category of “guys with size who can (sort of) skate backwards, aka better than John Scott.”

Am I paranoid? I don't know. I went to a therapist once, but I left before he gave me the diagnosis, cause he had it out for me.

by Detroit Must Die on Sep 1, 2011 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions

OT, but something that surprised me

I know Crow was in the AHL for a while, but he still looks like a puppy to me. I was going over the current roster and at 26, only 7 players are older than Corey.

Damn these kids are still so young. I could get used to this.

Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.

by ChicagoNativeSon on Sep 2, 2011 12:06 AM CDT reply actions

hahah Crow puppy.

I was reading about him and Seabs in the NHL yearbook magazine. It was talking about whether 2003 could be considered the best draft class ever. I didn’t realize Crow was also in the 2003 draft class.

SCH Narc - check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.

by ahnfire on Sep 2, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions

I doth protest

the signing almost assures that we’ll never, ever, ever, ever have to endure John Scott skating at forward again, and that can only be a good thing.

It would be a shame not to have him on the power play again.

by PDiggy on Sep 2, 2011 7:13 AM CDT reply actions

Some clarification, if you please

even though I don’t think Smith is top 6 material in the least

Is this coming from

A) I saw Smith play, and he showed nothing that implies he has the talent to skate in the top-6.
or
B) I saw Smith play and he looked good, but it was 13 games and he’s a 6th round pick who got some lucky bounces, so let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

I think the roster crunch, even before they signed Segal, needs to be the end of John Scott, Blackhawk. It was bad enough last year, but there literally is no room to carry him anymore. And I probably rate Scott (as a defensemen only) higher than anyone else here.

by zacked on Sep 2, 2011 9:30 AM CDT reply actions

I've said it numerous times

If Ben Smith needs to contribute to your top 6, your team sucks.

Nothing against what he does as a player, but this city’s fandom as a whole tends to project a lot of what they perceive themselves to be when it comes to limited skill set, overachieving athletes (Of recent vintage, see: Rowand, Aaron, DeRosa, Mark, Orton, Kyle ). Ben Smith will be a fine 3rd or 4th line plugger. He was thrust into the role he was in last year out of necessity due to lack of depth, and had some success in a small sample size that was an outlier for what he’s always shown to be capable of over a long enough timeline. The most recent post over at HockeeNight does a very good job of articulating this in an effort to temper expectations, many of those fueled by the opinions of hockey simpleton Jesse Rogers.

Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame

by McClure on Sep 2, 2011 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions

With all due respect

DeRosa was a valuable utility guy… Rowand also played above his head for a few years and did have statistical merit. Orton, well 2 out of 3 ain’t bad…

I think Ben Smith’s ceiling is a below average 2nd liner. Solid 3rd liner. So I don’t think we disagree. But I think that Smith if needed can step in and play with Kane/Sharp/Toews/Hossa/Brunette. There is one top 6 spot available and 2-3 bottom 6 spots, if he goes out and has a great training camp… play the hot hand. If he cools move him back down into a more comfortable 3rd line spot with Bolland.

by 2883 on Sep 2, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions