Power To The People: Second City Hockey's 2011-2012 Season Preview - Crow's Nest
While there were many solid queries made (mostly by Bob LeDonne) concerning the upcoming campaign, it seems appropriate that we start with the backstop of the whole operation, with Toews Makes Funny Faces inquiring about the incumbent in the cage:
For perhaps the First time in a few years, the Hawks are walking into Camp knowing who the #1 Goalie is going to be for the Campaign
Why should we not be concerned about a "sophomore slump" like what happened to Mason in CBJ?
A valid concern indeed. The sophomore slump is a cliche for a reason; many fall prey to it, the most recent of which in net being the aforementioned Steve Mason, who has followed up his Calder winning campaign with steaming piles the last two seasons with GAA's over 3.00 in each. So if Corey Crawford couldn't even boast a Calder nomination in his first go around as Mason did, why should he fare better in the aftermath?
First and foremost, the defensive corps in front of Crow this year will be about a couple dozen parsecs ahead of what was skating in front of Mason in Columbus the past two years (and what will be skating in front of him this year for that matter, I don't care what James Wisniewski's pay check or point total says). The Hawks will boast one of the deepest defensive units in the league, even if Nick Leddy can't make the leap that Stan Bowman is risking his reputation on. And while I've been adamant about my opinions of Duncan Keith's performance last year, even his campaign last year which I considered to dogshit would have been better than anything Columbus had. And I expect a motivated and refreshed Keith to return to form and minimize help chances against Crawford. Additionally, Crawford performed as he did last year without having the benefit of more than one shot blocking specialist aside from Niklas Hjalmarsson. Both Steve Montador and Sean O'Donnell (when in the lineup) have shown to be willing to get pelted for the sake of their goaltender not having to.
Columbus switching gears from Ken Hitchcock's system of smearing the neutral zone with his leftover turkey gravy to both Claude Noel and now Scott Arniel's desire to play a more uptempo game while not really having the personnel to do so has also left Mason out to dry on more than one occasion. Crawford, on the other hand, has a corps of skaters in front of him with the proven track record of being able to minimize shots against due to the simple fact of rarely letting the opposition touch the puck...or at least that's the idea.
Next is a difference in technique. Mason has a size advantage over Crawford (6'4" 212 lbs to Crow's 6'2" 200 lbs), which has exacerbated his difficulties as it works in concert with his more stand-up and unorthodox style. Mason plays far more upright, and further out of his net, relying on his athleticism to make the saves he can't just outright smother with size. Once the book got out Mason to wait the extra beat or make the extra pass, it took him a long time to finally take corrective measures, when he got deeper in his net towards the middle-end of last year. Conversely, Corey Crawford is about as prototypical a butterfly goaltender as you can find, both in his size and in his execution of the technique. Without the extra lank to drag him down, and being designed to take away the entirety of the bottom of the net, maintain impeccable positioning and absorb rebounds, Crawford adheres to a proven school of successful goaltending. It might make him more robotic, but it works, and we all saw what an adventurous goalie looks like behind the Hawks' d-corps last year, and it ain't pretty. Jean-Sebastien Giguere, who Crawford looks a LOT like on the ice (minus the comically illegal oversized pads), was once quoted as saying something to effect of "if I have to look spectacular that means I've made a mistake", and the same holds true for Crawford. Simply, he just has a far more reliable technique to fall back on than Mason has.
And lastly, Crow has time on his side. Crawford waited patiently for his turn for the majority of 5 seasons in The A before finally getting his chance last year, having worked and fine tuned his game all along the way producing the product we saw last year. Mason's Calder campaign came after only 3 starts at Syracuse between Columbus and London in the OHL, because it was the Blue Jackets, and who the hell else were they going to start?. Goaltenders, much like defensemen, typically take much longer to develop, and that's what made Mason's rookie year such the anomaly. On top of all of the other factors described, Mason is likely still going through the growing pains in his game that almost all goalies except the true greats face. The only problem is that he's been doing so at the NHL level and not in the minors (and thanks to a pretty nice raise), and in that regard he's a victim of his own success.
So hopefully this allays any fear anyone had of a Mason-like follow up from Crow, as there are clearly a multitude of different circumstances surrounding their situations. Of course, now that I've said that and put it out there, the Hawks will be relying on Alexander Salak by Christmas and Steve Mason will win the Vezina. But I wouldn't put money on either.
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All is right in the world:
Columbus switching gears from Ken Hitchcock’s system of smearing the neutral zone with his leftover turkey gravy
McClure is in midseason form already with that zinger. Awesome.
Ranting about all sorts of things that are on my mind in 140 characters or less
To be fair
Didn’t we “know” Huet would be the #1 guy in 2010 and that Turco would (probably) be the #1 guy last season?
I am a meat popsicle
SCH's resident 8 year old
Valid point
in Crow’s defense, both of them have 10 years on him. Not the best argument I’ve had, but it’s been a long day.
Don't mind me, I'm just here to sit on the bench and mock McDouche
by Marty-notimportant-Turco on Sep 13, 2011 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I would say to Turco
He was known to start the season as the #1, but his job was NEVER realy safe and was there for the taking (which Craw did), and Huet was also tenuious though not as bad as Turco, he was known to have some holes and his job was somewhat in Jeopardy and there for the taking as well, which Neimi did. However if Craw plays like he did last year it is his job, it is his job to lose, not be taken.
Preemptive Palomino, lets talk political stuff elsewhere .
Second City Hockey, Is it October 7th yet?
Recovering rec whore.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Sep 14, 2011 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions
i agree
that huet and turco were both undisputed no. 1’s at the beginning of the last two years respectively, however, it was known that the turco experiment was a gamble and if he wasn’t going to cut it, we had a tenured minor leaguer ready to back him up. pertinent fears about crow last year was that with all of his minor league seasoning, he DID lose out to niemi last year. even though they said that was by the slightest of margins. but it was clear that turco was a crap shoot, what with his decline in play over the last few years and age.
as for huet, he was supposed to be the starter 08-09, but lost his job to khabi. i think when khabi left and we were sitting on huet and some finnish kid who was driving a zamboni the year before we knew he would be the no. 1 but the goalie debate was THE big debate that season. huet had lost his spot before, and all the eyes were on whether he would do it again, thus big question marks were hanging over him.
so yes, while they came into camp as undisputed no. 1’s, there were real questions about whether either huet or turco could help carry the team. the difference with crow is that we’ve already seen him do that and so i see no real reason to question how he will do, especially considering our new addition of defensive depth, plus the subtraction of certain players named boynton, cullimore, and scott from defending our zone.
So out of curiosity
Does Mason ever return to form? Or does he continue to look the guy with vertigo trying to play Whirlyball? I only ask because my fantasy draft is fast approaching and I’m looking for sleepers…
Furious George! What happened to your beautiful face?!?
Go with Lorenzo 'Shakes' Carcaterra
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Sep 14, 2011 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Take a look
at Montoya from the Islanders… There is always the chance that DiP will catch a serious case of Islander Face this season (again, dammit!) and Montoya is one of the better backups the Isles have.
/Please note, this is my Homeristic opinion only, and my be severely biased…
There is a problem with outliving your enemies, it usually means that you have outlived your friends as well...
Honnor thy father - D. Vader (Robert Asprin, Myth series)
by burpchelischili on Sep 14, 2011 2:25 AM CDT up reply actions
The odds of DiPietro staying healthy for an entire season
are about the same as the odds of you getting struck by lightning. Twice. On a sunny day. While you are in the vicinity of but not touching some very tall metal poles. Hell, those are probably the odds of DiPietro surpassing 10 starts let alone the whole season…
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Sep 14, 2011 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Well.
so far I have only been struck once. However, it was a rainy day, and I was on a horse. (Funny enough, it was a bay, because my regular horse was getting new shoes, and she was a palomino.) I would be willing to bet that DiP will get 20 or better starts this year, and I would add as a side bet that if he EVER leaves his crease to fight… There will be at least one heart attack/stroke in the organ-Isles-zation.
There is a problem with outliving your enemies, it usually means that you have outlived your friends as well...
Honnor thy father - D. Vader (Robert Asprin, Myth series)
by burpchelischili on Sep 15, 2011 2:31 AM CDT up reply actions
I think one of the things
that contributed to Crawford’s success last season was having someone as experienced and successful as Turco for a teammate. He seemed to accept his role as a backup and acted basically as an on the bench coach for Crawford. If Emery can fill the same role, Crawford has a great chance of avoiding the sophmore slump.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
I forgot to add
+1 to McClure for the “Enemy at the Gates” caption.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
I agree with your opinion that having a veteran like Turco to offer guidance and mentorship
was a big boost to the Crow last year. But now it’s time for him to fly on his own, he doesn’t (or shouldn’t) need a veteran presence backing him up and mentoring him at this point. And considering that Emery is only 2 years older than Crawford I doubt he’d see himself as an aged veteran mentor anyways.
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Sep 14, 2011 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions
what emery lacks
in age, he has made up for in experience. he’s been to the finals before, and despite their similarity in age, he has been at the nhl level longer than crow. although i ultimately agree that he shouldn’t be providing the type of mentorship crow was getting from turco, as its now his time to take the helm.
however, i would go so far as to say that i think emery is one of the most interesting potential impact players we could have for 2011-12. a tandem of crow/emery sounds devastating if he can stay healthy. all sources up to this point show that he can put ego behind him and just wants to play/help the team as best he can.
This is basically
what I was typing when your Post popped up. Props to you for explaining it much clearer than I could.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
Butterfly style goalies
Yes, they make more more saves over the course of the season. BUT would you rather have Thomas, Brodeur, Nabakov, or Luongo. The two latter are butterfly style goalies and Timmy and Marty are Hybrid style, or in the case of Timmy, make the save style. I was going to post a picture of Crawford on the Burrows game 7 goal detailing why butterfly style goalies get beat on goals hybrid guys don’t, but that is all water under the bridge. It was Campoli and Seabrook anyway.
I don’t think goalies need to be down in the butterfly before the puck is in close. This is the flaw in Crawford, Luongo, etc that I see. They get overly comfy with taking away the bottom of the net, and when a guy is in close it’s good, but if you are down too soon, it’s bad because you are giving up the sides and corners and if your angle is off by just a bit, it’s an easier goal. I’d rather see a guy take away the angle, stay on his feet, and use the stick and blocker to put the puck in the corner or glove to catch it chest to smother.
Does this mean Crawford will be a bed shitter this season? No. I think he will do just fine for our team. If he stays on his feet a little more, he will be even better.
Grumpy Fuck
Some guy named Roy was a butterfly goalie.
Seemed to work out alright for him, even though he had rings plugging his ear (sic). Except for that whole “Statue of Liberty save” thing. That was real bad.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
Roy, he had skills!
But the Statue of Liberty is a classic, let his big head get in the way of the game, and against SCUM to top it off! But he never made that mistake again.
Preemptive Palomino, lets talk political stuff elsewhere .
Second City Hockey, Is it October 7th yet?
Recovering rec whore.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Sep 14, 2011 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Roy
He also had some pretty good defenseman and forwards in front of him in MTL and COL. He played for good teams, and while he was instrumental in making them good teams, but if he plays for lets say SJS or WPG/PHO during that time, history will judge him differently
I didn’t say Butterfly goalies can’t win. It’s when it is taken to extreme, like for example Huet, that it becomes bad.
Grumpy Fuck
as my goalie store brethren would say
butterfly is a save selection, not a style. in roy’s case, he employed the technique far more often then those before him under the guidance of a coach who set up a system to maximize its potential. add that to his natural skill at the position, the fact that pad development began to allow him to use this technique the way he did, and that shooters were not used to seeing goalies doing this gave him an excellent advantage.
Yeah, because that 93 Habs team was stacked eh?
"What is icing?"
"Well, uh... icing appen when uh the puck come down... bang, you know, before the other guys, nobody there, you know. My arm go comme ça then the game stop then start up."
by anActiveStick on Sep 14, 2011 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
If you mean '92-93 they were stacked enough to win the cup and have 102 points (without the shootout)
And I don’t remember Roy scoring a goal. He kept them in games, like he always did
If you mean 93-94 they finished 3rd in the league in pts with 96. That would have been over 200 with the shootout point (obviously kidding).
My point is that goalies play better on good teams, because they are good teams. They help them be good teams, no doubt, but if you cannot score or play defense, even Patrick Roy will struggle. Of course, a less skilled goalie could have cost them games and even the cup.
Roy was awesome in the net, no argument here.
Grumpy Fuck
I'm a Hawks fan,
so when I think butterfly, I think Tony-O.
by stanfordron on Sep 14, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not brining Tony into this argument
He was not a butterfly goalie in the same way today’s guys are.
But I know what you are saying. You either wanted to be Tony O, Bobby, Stan, or Magnuson in my backyard rink. If you were Tony, you hoped someone brought the soft puck.
Grumpy Fuck
I was weird.
I was always Whitey (unless I was playing goal).
by stanfordron on Sep 14, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
There is a kid with that last name on a team my son plays against
I think that kid is better than he is because of his last name.
Grumpy Fuck
Too much went into the G7 OT goal to blame any one person
A tired exhausted Blackhawks team
Poor clear by Campi
Seabs not covering the high slot area with pressure,
Two Hawks one Cannot in the same place in the Defensive Zone with allot of open ice
Craw caught too deep in his net
An opposing player who could walk in and shoot from his preferred position unchallenged
I can not blame just Campi or Craw or any one player for the loss of that game or series. It was a bad play, but there were opportunities to win, the ’Nucks took advantage of one more mistake than the Hawks did, and that was the difference.
Preemptive Palomino, lets talk political stuff elsewhere .
Second City Hockey, Is it October 7th yet?
Recovering rec whore.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Sep 14, 2011 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Craw is at the top of the crease on that play.
But he is down in the butterfly. Doesn’t matter. It’s just one example of overdoing a style. Maybe he thought Burrows was going to get closer as he had room. Crawford probably makes that save today.
Lets look at Sharp’s attempt that Luongo saved. Sharp is in close and Luongo is down taking away the bottom. He moved side to side real quick and the butterfly wroked as it’s supposed to, but if Sharp is 3-5 feet farther out, he can get the puck higher and possible beat Luongo. In as close as he was, it was a tough shot with Luongo in position.
Grumpy Fuck
I'm not saying Sharp should have been farther out
He was where the open ice was and GOD it was close to being over.
Here’s to more excitement like that this season.
“Tink”
Grumpy Fuck
the sound of clinking glasses reminds me...
I need to pick a new gametime cocktail for this season. Last year it was Captain Morgan and diet Coke. Decisions, decisions.
Let's Go Hawks!
I don't know
I hate to just copy you and drink what you’re drinking. I’d like to keep some of my own individuality, you know?
Let's Go Hawks!
C'mon
everyone knows a good Manhattan is the best drink out there
The fourth dimension will collapse in upon itself, bitch.
ashamed to say
I’ve never had a manhattan. I think I’ll have to do a taste test and pick the best. I’d also like to try Jim Johnson’s “Brown Mumbler”.
Let's Go Hawks!
i'll come out and say
it was just a damn good shot. crow played it as he should’ve because he was trying for a better statistical advantage to make the save in a terrible situation. PERHAPS he went down a little too early, but burrows was in the best place/depth he possibly could have been to score a goal on any goalie whether they are standing or not. just inside the depth of the circles right in the middle of the slot with a rising slapper while moving horizontally. its only natural for crow to jump the gun by a small margin during that play, you can’t anticipate where the puck will come off the stick on that shot. i’ve been in the same position before and it sucks. there couldn’t have been a better platter set up for burrows to make a shot. plain and simple.
I will agree on everything except
“PERHAPS” He went down early.
Like I said. Crawford makes that save today
Grumpy Fuck
i believe your comment
was
Crawford probably makes that save today.
no way he makes that save just because he’s standing up. it isn’t a “routine” save situation no matter how you look at it. i’ve seen huet, niemi, turco and crow work with stephan waite at several practices taking multiple shots from the same type of shot at that same spot, and whether they stood up or not, they make the save 50% of the time if they are lucky. it is a function of being the most advantageous spot a shooter can have.
Thanks for the block quotes
Always a nice touch.
If you are down too early you are limited. Where did I say it was routine? His chances are better when the shooter is in that position if he is out and up. He was out (not far enough) but he was not up. He was in a very tough spot (almost no win situation) and I am not blaming him for the loss. If he comes out farther, Burrows will deke, Tough spot.
The tendency of “butterfly” goalies to be down early is not a good thing.
Now leave me alone so I can enjoy my spritzer.
Grumpy Fuck
sorry
to interrupt the spritzer, but you inferred the save would be routine when you said “Like I said. Crawford makes that save today”, with the underlying assertion that he would if he was still standing up during that play.
the tendency of goalies to be down early is a question of hindsight, since it focuses on the problem of anticipation. believe it or not, there are limitations if you stay standing, because you simply can’t cover the bottom of the net (which is, statistically speaking, where a higher percentage of goals are scored). his chances are only better staying up if he knows the shot is coming high, which in this instance, he simply can’t anticipate quickly enough.
since most starting goaltenders maintain an average of around 90% shots saved, the majority of which are stopped in the butterfly, i would argue that the tendency is for them to drop into the butterfly at precisely the right time. it only seems like there is a tendency to go down early, because those mistakes lead to goals and stick out more.
not trying to be a troll, but just enjoy good debate on goaltending.
Something like 75% of goals are scored 12" or below
I know that. That is because even though we all like the highlight “top shelf” goal, or the snipe from the top of the circle, it’s the scran=mble or rebound that gets most goals. When the puck is near the crease, the goalie needs to be down, but able to move laterally. When the puck is above the hash marks, as it was with Burrows, the goalie cannot gp down on the shot. You have forced me to post the picture at the time of the shot. BTW – Crawford has to anticipate the shot. If he doesn’t he will get beaten as in the picture. In this case, if he comes out farther, because Seabrook is in the stands, he will get deked and Burrows will score anyway. He played it right positioning wise, just went down too early. He could get it with his blocker if he stayed on his feet. Below is the “shot”

Even though I can’t see it from the correct angle, Crawford is square to the shooter, not the puck. That is why he got beat to his right in this case. If he is on his skates, his blocker can still get to the puck. As he is, he is paddle down with the shooter above the hash marks. He made a mistake, but there were many made before his.
Grumpy Fuck
His technique did fail him there
But another thing to consider is that that puck was rolling on Burrows. We don’t know where he was actually aiming for, but the puck found one of three pretty tight areas it could have possibly gotten through- under his right arm, or high and tight past either of his ears with fractions of an inch in between. Crow’s instinct was probably right to maximize what he could take away, but the rolling puck added a variable to its flight pattern based on where ever Burrows wanted to put it when he pulled the trigger, which we can’t ever know. Given the 1 on 2 situation, he was likely just firing it for the sake of firing it, and it got through. So it goes.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
to mclure's point
the puck did add variability on the shot- he didn’t stick handle just blasted it, but (imho) it is the position and type of shot that burrows took with its eventual accuracy that is what lead to the outcome, not crow’s positioning or save selection. in your picture you can’t see the puck because it is already beating crow. he isn’t paddle down, he just hasn’t reacted yet, because the shot came off of his stick so fast (a slapper vs. a wrister-which you can glean target information from the positioning of the stick), from that distance he was merely relying on muscle memory to attempt the save. his head attempts to track, but doesn’t even move until the puck is already behind him.
that is why an nhler is so deadly from the slot without a defender, and why that type of shot from that distance affords only the tiniest of margins for shot anticipation. he is in the b-fly to try and fill as much net as possible.
cheers, laarmer! i’ve got to dig up the video i took of huet and niemi facing shots just like that at practice and review it to see how they deal with those types of shots.
You are not actually saying he isn't paddle down are you?
But I said I wouldn’t talk about it anymore so I won’t.
Grumpy Fuck
he isn't
paddle down. he is just executing a b-fly with his blocker side a bit low. here is an example of a paddle down:

paddle down is only used on shots in tight, most often with a VH (vertical horizontal) position. crows paddle is never flush on ice during that play and he would never use that save selection from a shot from the slot.
interesting discussion
I’ve never really thought/read much about the technical aspects of tending goal.
Let's Go Hawks!
It is truly a science unto itself.
A LOT goes into it.
Way more than just “getting in the way.”
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
This is bad too
Glove in wrong position, and blocker side elbow allowing a hole. He’s better off stick blade down, elbow tight, and catcher above pad. Too many holes for a shooter here. Look at the top of the net.
Grumpy Fuck
dude
In the standalone VH technique, the blocker is up and the stick blade covering five hole, but the point was to show you a paddle down, which invariably opens a hole at the elbow because that save selection is only used on tight plays where a shooter cannot lift the puck (almost exclusively used on wraparounds or stuff shots) and the stick itself follows the puck. In concert with the VH, the goalie is able to to “load up” for a backside push to eliminate the chance of a scorer to reach around him or to be in position for a pass & shot from the slot.
as for the comment about the top of the net, that is a bit misguided, because from the puck view of a play which is in that close, there is no exposed net up top. in any event, crow wasn’t using this save selection.
That shooter can snipe the top of the net from where he is
Hell I could hit the top of the net from there (But only if there wan no goalie or 230lb defenseman next to me)
Grumpy Fuck
that pic
was to illustrate the position of the stick in the paddle down technique in comparison to Crow’s stick during the shot, not necessarily to debate the pros & cons of the VH. i explained the main situation where the paddle down is used, and that is on tight-in plays/wraparounds, whereas in this picture we do not know the situation. maybe the b’s have gotten to the puck and rask is about to recover, maybe he IS employing the wrong save selection for the situation (this picture was taken from an article outlining the controversies of the VH position). here is a picture of a paddle down in action:

this goalie is not in the VH and could use the post as a “loading” position to explode horizontally if the puck moves to his right but runs the risk of dislodging the net if he pushes too hard. look up wraparound and you will see a ton of these pictures. but it remains that this save selection is really only used on tight in plays and poor angle shots, neither of which was Crow’s situation.
Yeah I was wrong about him being "paddle down"
It just looked tat way from my screen grab.
I still stand by my point of the Butterfly being overused. It’s a trap that a goalie can fall into, especially younger ones who when they are down, leave 3/4 of the net open. Maybe it’s because I coach peewees that I think this.
Fleury is good here. Might want to check under his glove, but that is the only spot 94 can possibly put it.
Grumpy Fuck
this
is an example of a cleaned up VH in action:

he is filling the holes, and this save would ONLY be used on a poor angle shot.
That is good there almost.
You know what is funny? Kane put the puck in that little 5 opening to win the cup. Remember?
“I see your 5 hole”
Grumpy Fuck
good memory
and the VH is not without controversy, however, leighton utterly butchered that technique. to put it bluntly, his vertical was horizontal (not sealing the post) and vice versa. he also dropped into the paddle down, and used the technique reactively, and not positionally. the VH is supposed to be a “blocking position” where you are already set up before the shot, not dropping into it as a shot is coming. straight up, he was just not prepared for the shot.
that is why he looked like a chump and why we all jumped around our rooms with confused yet jubilant faces.
high and tight past either of his ears with fractions of an inch in between
Crawford is Beaker?
Aw crap. Beaker had a skinny head but no ears. Never mind, I got nothin.
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Sep 14, 2011 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions
summer 2011
laaarmer’s kids: Dad, aren’t you coming out!
laaarmer: I said I’m busy! Christ Louise, can’t you do something with them?
/returns to overstuffed chair in dimly lit room. deep swig off spritzer, then rewind, play, pause. jumps up from chair: “goddam it Seabrook, you’re out of position” sits again, scribbles some notes. play, pause: “Crawford, you went down too early, for chrissakes!”
Louise: Laaarmer, please keep it down in there. you’re frightening the children.
laaarmer: Dammit Louise, this is important!
sits back in chair. deep swig. rewind, pause, play
We like our people!
by cliffkoroll on Sep 14, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
LOL
People are looking in my office wondering what I’m laughing about.
Thank you, sir! May I have another?
Laces out!!!
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Sep 14, 2011 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions
This angle is obviously incorrect
because Crow isn’t down before the shot
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Sep 14, 2011 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions
i disagree
the puck is coming off of burrows tape in this shot. if you review the video, this is the exact moment he is shooting, as he hits campoli’s stick on the follow through.
I was wrong
I thought, he was too deep. Obviously not.
Preemptive Palomino, lets talk political stuff elsewhere .
Second City Hockey, Is it October 7th yet?
Recovering rec whore.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Sep 15, 2011 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Why does he go down at all? It is not necessary.
His angle is terrible. If you square to the shooter in this case you leave the left of the net open. Check this out below. He is square to the shooter and because he is on his way down, he cannot adjust.
A goalie has to be square to the puck as the stick is approximately 3 feet outside the shooters center. This is basic goalie technique and I’ll bet Waite showed this to him.
Raditzzz, if you watch a little longer you see him flail at the puck with his blocker. If he was not going down, it may have hit the blocker. It may have gone in either way, but I think he would have been better off on his feet.

Grumpy Fuck
by laaarmer on Sep 15, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i agree with
what your hypothesis is; i.e. he would have had a more successful chance to save the shot had he remained in a standing position, HOWEVER, i am going to explain to you what made it necessary for him to go down:
burrows used a slap shot on crow from a favorable distance and the speed of the release from that type of shot from that distance does not allow crow to accurately anticipate the placement of the shot. yes, crow was slightly off angle albeit still challenging aggressively, but it comes off so fast from that distance that he was relying on muscle memory for the save, NOT eye tracking like you would for a normal slapper, because those usually come from much further outside in comparison to where this shot came from.
if you take crow and move him back the 1 &1/2 or 2 feet he is from the crease and move burrows forward the same distance, you have burrows basically taking a full slap shot from about the hashmarks on crow. with the speed at which the puck comes off the stick, you begin to realize that crow was not able to anticipate where the shot was going to end up and select the appropriate save (a standing blocker save).
SO, in the event you cannot accurately anticipate shot placement, crow is trained to take away the bottom portion of the net immediately because this is the largest open area with the highest probability of a score WHILE implementing this basic tenant of goaltending: your feet are slower than your hands. goalies are trained to go in-to-out with their blocker and glove in this manner because that is the fastest move your body can make for a save (hence the “flail” as you put it) and the shooter is forced to beat you top shelf (a more difficult shot). he is just playing the percentages (butterfly to close the bottom portion) while trying to use his natural ability (fast blocker) to make the save because he does not have the time to anticipate the correct save selection. burrows shot was just too fast for him to anticipate how to react. otherwise if he is caught standing flat footed and if the shot comes low, he will just look ridiculously silly- getting scored on without making any save attempt whatsoever because it is a fact that the shot will be too fast for his leg reaction time (versus glove/blocker reaction time). these are the instructions from current goalie coaching.
He went down because the butterfly is overstressed and used
All The Time.
And I said it may have gone in anyway (feel free to block quote).
If Burrows fakes that shot, Crawford bites and goes down, Burrows pulls it and has a relatively easy deke to the net (Seabrook!). It was a wild shot, I’ll give you that. Crawford is playing what he thinks is the best percentage, but he is wrong two ways.
1. He went down
2. His angle is wrong
So lets drop Crawford from this equation. He did the best he could under the circumstances. I look for a lot of good things from him in the future.
Who’d you rather?
Brodeur
Thomas
Roy
Luongo
Hasek
Richter
Smith
Pang (for laughs)
Grumpy Fuck
laarms
i’ll take your comment title above as a “BAH” response to what is likely an overly analytic response of mine above. i’ve got no problem moving on from this convo and trying not to argue at the interwebz, as i’ve articulated my perspective as clearly as i am able to.
it may be interesting to note that i started a thread in the goalie store bulletin board, of which i am a member, to see if the members there have any confirmation or undermining of my assertion. i’ll be happy to report back to sch, or you can follow the responses there yourself at:
http://www.goaliestore.com/board/doctor-ice/98302-ot-goal-critique-shootout-question.html
that post includes the video i took of niemi taking similar shots in practice as well as a question i had to the board. members include a former nhler/former goalie coach of the maple leafs (keeks2915), a goalie for the leafs who was at the recent oshawa tourny (chicagoalie40), a grizzled vet with sage-like advice (sloth) and other goaltending wizard’s & everyday men like myself who don the pads.
Back, and to the left
Westy Zapruder here at least confirms in my head that the positioning was for the most part correct; an erratic puck due to being shot while rolling and possibly being deflected found one of the very few holes that Crawford was giving the shooter.
Second City Hockey
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame
IMHFO this is the mantra ALL goalies should live by!
“if I have to look spectacular that means I’ve made a mistake”
The less spectacular save the goalie has to make, should imply the better position he was in too make a save in the first place.
Preemptive Palomino, lets talk political stuff elsewhere .
Second City Hockey, Is it October 7th yet?
Recovering rec whore.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Sep 14, 2011 8:56 AM CDT reply actions
rec'd
for the picture, which I love, the analysis, which is solid, and your style, which is wicked.
everything really, except for the meatball in the middle.
We like our people!
The question becomes...
is there a panic button for Crawford and what situation do you hit it. He will struggle at some point this year and um…you Hawks fans are not known as a patient lot.
SCH unofficial moderator ~ Thanks ahnfire
Just westy getting lost on the vast internetz again
What he meant to ask over at NM was:
is there a panic button for Crawford Luongo and what situation do you hit it. He will struggle at some point this year during the playoffs and um…you Hawks we Nucks fans are not known as a patient lot.
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Sep 14, 2011 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If it comes to the point where we have to play a backup over Crawford, I sure hope our backup doesn’t pull his groin while getting owned in a shootout. That would be embarrassing.
Defender of any poseur or professional pretender
by HjammerTime on Sep 14, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
New for NHL 2011-12
Playoff shootouts, no more continuos overtimes, skillz competition to the max!
Preemptive Palomino, lets talk political stuff elsewhere .
Second City Hockey, Is it October 7th yet?
Recovering rec whore.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Sep 14, 2011 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Ahhh... I got here too late.
I was totally prepared to ask for his advice, seeing as how the team in Vancoufire has written the book on this particular behavior.
Well played!
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
We really have no choice but to play Luongo
He wins regular season games.
SCH unofficial moderator ~ Thanks ahnfire
Call me a naive homer
but I don’t think Crow has an extreme downside to be concerned about. As has been discussed, he’s positionally sound and has been rather consistent for years, nothing flashy. For the life of me I can’t see him getting in a rut for any length of time. I have zero concerns about a sophomore slump.
Lead writer (and of course, photoshopper) for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Sep 14, 2011 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the difference is that this year there are fewer questions about our goaltending
people are more confident in Crow than we were about Huet or Turco, and this time our backups are the question – but isn’t that how it’s supposed to go?
Well, maybe not in Vancouver…
SCH Narc - check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.
I thought last year was more like..
Turco is starting to suck and maybe we should Crow a chance. And it worked out. Anyone missing Niemi?
SCH unofficial moderator ~ Thanks ahnfire
Is there any reason that we have to assume that he is indeed, going to struggle?
Is there the same panic button for Luongo? For Bryzgalov, Brodeur, Niemi, Kiprusoff, or Howard?
There are many solid reasons that all of these guys are starting goaltenders in the NHL. Clearly, the panic button for DiPietro is when he steps on the ice, because he’ll get hurt, but outside of him, I was unaware that goaltenders came with panic buttons as a part of their standard issue.
Second City Hockey's resident arrogant poster.
Serious answer?
I don’t think we have a panic button for Crawford at this time. Personally, I have a lot of confidence in the guy. He’d have to have several bad performances before I’d look for a panic button. As for Niemi, I hate to speak for all Blackhawk fans without being paid to do so, but I don’t think most people miss him.
Thank you, sir! May I have another?
I do...
but for purely sentimental reasons.
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
Yes
I meant miss him as a player, not as a person or a part of the Stanley Cup team.
Thank you, sir! May I have another?
Why are we still talking about Niemi?
We agreed he’s playing his contract out in France.
The fourth dimension will collapse in upon itself, bitch.
No, that's Huet
Niemi’s the one we traded to Atlanta.
I am a meat popsicle
SCH's resident 8 year old
by LanceFister3 on Sep 14, 2011 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What scares me about Crawford
Are how similar his numbers are to another central division goalie. Not Steve Mason, either. Rather, Jimmy Howard.
Howard’s 2009-10 stats were pretty solid and similar to what Corey put up in 2010-11. Jimmy regressed last season. While I think Crawford is a regression candidate, his solid performances in shootouts does lead me to believe he’ll be responsible for a few extra points in the standings whereas Howard isn’t so great in the shootout.
Also, Crow put up a better GVT in 2010-11 than Howard did in that 2009-10 season. So there’s that.
by JesusMarianHossa on Sep 14, 2011 10:57 AM CDT reply actions
This has also concerned me.
Especially since another thing that Howard and Crawford have in common is that they were both rode hard and put away wet down the stretch of their rookie seasons because they were both backed up by aging and declining goaltenders who couldn’t be trusted in must win situations.
Am I paranoid? I don't know. I went to a therapist once, but I left before he gave me the diagnosis, cause he had it out for me.
by Detroit Must Die on Sep 14, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I like the Crawford vs. Mason analysis
But I feel like for Crawford, the genesis of a potential sophomore slump would just be increased workload, and the mindset of KNOWING he’s numero uno from day 1.
How many games did he start last season? Do you think he’ll see more? Is a 50/30 split with Salak a reasonable expectation?
GO SHARKS!
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Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Salak most likely won't be playing for the Hawks
I think there’s a better chance of Emery beating him out of camp and IMO, Crow starts around 60 games.
Crawford appeared in 57 games last season with only 2 of those apperances coming in relief of Turco
and 55 of those appearances as games started. If he started 55 games last season despite it taking him 2 1/2 months to officially wrestle the starting gig away from Turco, there’s no reason to think he can’t start 60+ this year.
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Sep 15, 2011 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Hopefully he's not required to
get a retardedly high number of consecutive starts again. Like he did towards the end of the season
Curator of Dark Side of the Five Hole
I like our guys, especially these guys.
Unapologetic apologist for hockey South of the Mason/Dixon
I agree that he started waaaay too many games in a row at the end of the season
but this year Crow is the day 1 starter instead of needing 2 or 3 months to wrestle that job away from Turco, if he puts up 60 starts this season they’ll be much more spread out than his 55 starts were last season.
There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.
by FrankStallone on Sep 15, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions

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