Special Type Thing: Oilers 4 - Hawks 3
by Hack on Jan 3, 2012 1:02 AM CST
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Dan Carcillo's night started off well enough; he fought through a check in the neutral zone and slid a pass over to Captain Serious, who got a little help from an Oiler skate on his 22nd goal of the year. Unfortunately, Carcillo may have done more harm than good in his six and a half minutes of ice time. Carcillo's major boarding penalty in the 2nd frame lead to two Edmonton goals: Smyth found the back of the net after a goal mouth scramble, and Hall put the exclamation point on the 5 minute powerplay with a five hole tally from the right side. The Hawks answered back quickly, as Bruno redirected a Hammer shot on the next shift following Car Bomb's penalty, and we thought that the Men of Four Feathers might survive the change in momentum after Edmonton took the lead.
Sloppy play eventually caught up with the Hawks on Sutton's goal, and Eager added a much needed insurance tally for the Oil, midway through the third. Despite outshooting the Oilers 23 to 6 in the final frame, Jimmy Hayes' first NHL goal, and 6 minutes of powerplay time in the third, the Hawks suffered their 4th regulation loss of the season on UC ice.
Bullets
- On most nights, a team that scores 3 even strength goals should win the game, but that wasn't the case this evening. Here are a few of the primary reasons why the Hawks lost this game:
1A) Special teams - Another home 0-fer on the man advantage. The Hawks had 5 chances on the powerplay tonight, and they came up empty handed once again. The Hawks are just 1 for their last 22 on the powerplay, and the mistakes that we're seeing are completely unacceptable for a team with this much talent. Everyone knows that zone entry is a struggle on many nights, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be reiterated. Bruno, Kane, and Bolland (and probably others that I missed), all had brutal turnovers at the blueline which allowed for easy clearing plays by the Oil. It's not just the zone entry though, Duncs missed the net badly when he had plenty of time and space at one point, and the forwards on the powerplay units just don't work hard enough all the time. The PK didn't do the Hawks any favors by allowing 2 Oiler goals on Carcillo's major penalty, and you always get the feeling that you're in for it when the opposing team scores just seconds into a five minute powerplay.
1B) Dan Carcillo - It's quite a feat to have more penalty minutes than minutes played, especially when there are no fighting majors involved. Carcillo's hooking penalty was a bit weak, but few will dispute the stupidity of the brutal boarding penalty that he took in the second. If you haven't already, I'm sure that you'll see the penalty again, and when you do, you'll probably be embarrassed that the hit was made by someone wearing the Indianhead. The penalty was not born of desperation for a goal, at that point the game was 1-0 hawks, and it wasn't a penalty that can be excused by the speed and short decision making windows of the game. Car Bomb had plenty of time to think about what he was doing in that situation, and he still lined Gilbert up and drove him face first into the boards. Like I said before, it wasn't a split second reaction, it wasn't done in an attempt to score an equalizing goal late in the third period, it was just a dumb selfish play by a guy that occasionally makes dumb selfish plays. The penalty changed the course of the game, and I can honestly say that I don't really care how many games Carcillo misses for this one.
1C) Corey Crawford - Crow couldn't control the shot on the first goal, and was unable to cover up the rebound once he'd already coughed it up. The Hall goal is one that Crow would probably like to have back, and Eager's tally was just plain soft. In addition to the 4 goals allowed, Crow got lucky on a handful of other quality chances in which he over-slid the play.
- Despite him being pointless with a -1 on the night, I thought Patrick Sharp had a really strong game, and he was easily that Hawks best forward in the first period. Sharpy had his legs tonight, which was evident on several plays in which he exploded through the neutral zone to create a quality chance. On the down side, Carcillo wasn't the only Hawk with a selfish penalty tonight. Sharp's cross check at the end of the 2nd was a bad penalty in it's own right.
- Fro missed the last 10 minutes of the game (11:34 TOI), and Lepisto missed the last 15 minutes of the game (5:22 TOI). I think I might have missed an injury announcement on one or both of these two. With that said, Lepisto in particular, didn't have a very strong game. Sami wasn't OD-bad, but he did have a couple of turnovers early on, and I'm sure that he didn't give Q much of a reason to stop hating him.
- For a guy whose hockey sense is supposed to be a strong point of his game, Dave Bolland occasionally makes some questionable decisions when he has plenty of time to make the smart play. Bolland iced the puck early in tonight's contest when there wasn't much of a hurry to clear the zone, and he had a bad turnover his backhand when, once again, time and space was not the issue. Another example of this would be Bolland's patented wheel-and-fire-slappers when trying to clear the zone on the PK (didn't occur tonight though). This certainly isn't an epidemic, but it's something that I've noticed more this year than in years past.
- I already mentioned the issues with the powerplay, but I think a few personnel changes might be in order on the man advantage. The 1st unit comprised of Kane, Toews, and Hossa might need to be reworked. DDN + Hoss is obviously capable of jaw dropping puck movement, but it often forces Kane away from the right wing half wall, which is where he needs to be. This unit needs a clearly defined net presence role, and the second unit needs a more dangerous shooter; a Bruno for Hoss swap seems like it addresses both needs.
- Did the Hawks get a raw deal with the non high sticking call on Taylor Hall right before he beat Crow for the 2nd goal of the game? Yes. Did Hammer cost his team by staying down too long trying to sell the call? Only he knows for sure.
- The Hawks blocked a ton of shots tonight, 16 to be exact, more of this please.
- The Hawks were the best team in the NHL in the month of December, so they're probably due to lose a game here or there. With that being said, losing winnable home games might not immediately impact their position in the standings, but it could come back to haunt them once the schedule gets tougher starting next month.
- Things don't get any easier for the Hawks on Thursday. Going to Philly to face a pissed off (and probably less distracted) Flyers team will be a tough challenge for the boys.
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"The Carcillo Game"
You knew this one was coming at some point. It’s unfortunate that it comes after what might have been his most effective game in a Hawks sweater against Detroilet the other night. Tonight’s epically stupid penalty may (I hope not) erase the hard work he’s put in over the past few.
That being said, the rest of the team didn’t exactly band together and tough it out. They seemed mentally unprepared, and became visibly frustrated when the officiating swung The Oil’s way. As was the case so many times last year, when they decided to turn it on it was too little too late. Thankfully games like this have been few and far between this season, and I fully expect the team to sack punch the Flyers Thursday.
Oh, and congrats to Jimmy Hayes on breaking the seal. Hope that’s the first of many for the kid.
Furious George! What happened to your beautiful face?!?
by AirTrafficAJ on Jan 3, 2012 1:23 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions 1 recs
Stupid mobile app destroyed all my paragraphs.
I swear I knows de eenglish. Honests.
Furious George! What happened to your beautiful face?!?
by AirTrafficAJ on Jan 3, 2012 1:24 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I'm really disappointed in Carcillo's hit
I don’t think he ever intends to pull that kind of shit (at least not lately) unlike another certain player that plays in Pennsylvania, and he’s definitely been a better player than I would have thought. However, to me it looked like he twisted his knee when he fell, so on top of a hefty suspension from Shanahan that he should and will receive, he’ll probably be out for a while.
With him out, it seems Hayes will be here for a while, and I’m betting Pirri gets the call up over Morin and Smith.
You mean the player in Pennsylvania who hasn’t been suspended this year? While Carcillo is now facing his 3rd?
Goalie coach? We don't need no stinking goalie coach!
The first was a hold over from last season though
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, Cooke's still worse in my book
He needs two whole seasons with that halo on before he gets close to being redeemed.
Is Pirri going to play left wing with Toews and Hossa?
Probably not. So it’s more likely than not that Morin comes up.
I do stuff for CheerTheAnthem
I didn't think it was possibly to make the first morning of the work week any worse..
But now you have me thinking about this.
I do stuff for CheerTheAnthem
If the lines stay as they are, then I think Morin will come up
But I’m netting Kaner will go back to wing, so we have Stals and DDN, Hossa and Sharp on wings with Pirri in the middle, BickBoFro for third, and then Hayes, Mayers, and unfortunately Scott.
"The Embarrassment Game"
Although Hack was disgusted to see that hit from someone wearing the Indianhead, I was embarrassed by Carbomb even before that. When he slightly delayed his exit from the penalty box to put a hit on Hall (and Konroyd mentioned how he does that from the players’ bench at times) I turned to my wife and said “Embarrassing. I’m so done with this guy.”
Stuff like that is exactly what is wrong with hockey and the league is supposedly trying to change. You wanna put a hit on a guy, prove you belong in the league by doing it when he’s looking. I personally hate hit to unsuspecting opponents when a player exits the box or bench even more than headshots. It’s cowardly. It’s chickenshit hockey.
I view Carcillo as a kid with good intentions, but with issues, who often makes bad decisions. It’s a shame, but ultimately he’s responsible for his actions and you can only give a guy like that so many Get Out of Jail (somewhat) Free cards. I couldn’t give two shits whether or not he’s a Hawk, or had a few good game, or brings grit. Get. The. Fuck. Out.
It looked like he likely tore an ACL/MCL. If so, he won’t be back this year which is fine by me. But I also then wonder if his career in the NHL is also over? What team will want to take a chance on guy who was given an opportunity under a relatively strict coach and a team that plays a skill game – and still couldn’t change his meatheaded ways? Add a bum knee to the equation and Danny Boy may be looking for employment in a different line of work.
How would you feel with this guy on the ice against the Hawks? Unintentional or not, guys like this end careers.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 6 recs
And flec'd
for 100% agreement
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
I won't dispute
many of your points, CNS, but calling the opponent ‘unsuspecting’ when they know a penalty’s ending, they’re near the box and the guy coming out is someone like Carcillo (or dozens like him) is a nonstarter.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
by 334Rules on Jan 3, 2012 9:20 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
Was Toews "suspecting" a few years ago?
Sure, it was a “clean hit” (meaning only legal), but hits like that are typically attempts by a lesser-skilled player to make the highlight reel or to legitimize his role on the team IMO. “Hey, my role is to make big hits. Here’s an easy target.” I know that’s not always the case, but often times it is. And to delay exiting the box or bench to intentionally catch a player off-guard – that goes against everything that I was taught about “sportsmanship.”
Players don’t always know when a penalty is ending unless they’re looking up at the clock instead of playing hockey. I’ve said it before, hockey needs a quick buzzer that sounds when a penalty is expiring.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 9:42 AM CST up reply actions
Goalie slaps his stick on the ice indicating a player is exiting the box
I’ve always heard it on the ice myself and have always been conscious of it. Maybe some guys aren’t…
You are next.
by M7 on Jan 3, 2012 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
But the goalie can forget, or be recovering from a shot, or the player just doesn’t hear it. It just seems like such a simple fix IMO.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
Didn't happen on that play
The puck was in the Hawks zone for the last few seconds. Another example of shit hits like this was Joe Thornton’s hit on David Perron that knocked him out for almost a year.
Chicagoan in the Lou.
What you say there is why he is Keith Stone
He is so ridiculous, he is embarrassing.
If you want toughness, look to Toews, Seabrook, Mayers, Hossa, Scott, etc. How many tough guys do you need?
I say pay for his injury because you were stupid enough to sign him. but waive him and send him to KHL, if they would even take him.
Hold My Stones
Mayers
Perfect example of a “gritty” player who does it right.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Here's a big hit by Mayers
Probably a penalty by today’s standards as he took a pretty long fast run at Pardy. I thought it was a great hit though and will continue to do so. Keep your head up, know who you’re on the ice against at all times.
You are next.
by M7 on Jan 3, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
I think we should just start throwing this up
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
Except that I’m not attacking CNS’s position, so there is no fallacy in my arguement.
I agree with him that Mayers does “it” (read: the game) right. He toe’s the line in terms of what is legal. My own conjecture was simply that now (2 years down the road) I would be interested in seeing if that hit on Pardy would be illegal. At the same time, we don’t see Mayers taking runs like that this season either – futher suggesting that he knows how to tailor his game within the rules.
You are next.
by M7 on Jan 3, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
I think that would still be legal
Shoulder to shoulder hit, player has puck, the player is not in a vulnerable position (he’s facing him). Nice hit IMO.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
Personally, I agree with that assessment
I think where I get lost nowadays is what is called a penalty and what isn’t (even the whole thing where the close ref lets it go and the one in the neutral zone makes the call).
For sure that hit is not a suspension, but given the current climate, I could see that called charging. Charging’s a real weird case for me though… when I played (and coached) younger kids (pee-wee’s) that was almost assuredly charging, but junior that was almost never charging. I’m not sure why there is deviation in calls on plays. My only thought is that as players get older and stronger they are more able to sustain that time of contact. Either way, crushing check, and I think my point about Mayers toeing the line and playing “admirably” still stands. If you’re open for contact he will iron you out every time, but it’s always stick down elbows in and as square to the body as he can be (the classic toe to shoulder, 100% contact).
You are next.
by M7 on Jan 3, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
heres my 2.02 Cents (we just increased our VAT by 2%)
and I’d be interested to hear other’s opinions..
I kind of feel the same way about Carbomb as CNS (in terms of wanting him off our Hockey Team) but (for me) a lot of that strength of feeling comes from a deep sense of disappointment. It seemed, for a little while, that Carcillo could be a revelation on this team, that the ‘Civilising Influence’ (for want of a better term) of the ‘Hawks could turn an Ass into an Ace.. and the first (Hawks) suspension was tough, but i felt patient, maybe it was a blip.. then he’s out for a while, comes back and does this…
I think we saw a glimpse of a better Carcillo and for whatever reason he’s regressed to just being a Pile. And that saddens me deeply.
Dumb?
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
Not at all
That’s pretty much how I feel.
See if you can guess what I am now.
by IndianHeadCrest on Jan 3, 2012 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
Yup, agree
And don’t forget the penalties for and non-calls against, just for being Carcillo. Whether or not that’s his fault, doesn’t really matter. It is what it is and he’s not doing a good job of changing any official’s opinion.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
yeah
could have been a “Redemption Song” and ended up being “I Shot The Sheriff”… (why the Bob Marley references? I don’t know!)
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
I thought Sharp looked awesome tonight.
There were several times in the third where I thought he was going to will the puck into the net. Was T-Brow on the power play last year? I can’t, honestly, remember.
Agreed Sharp looked great on offense
He create many chances. But it seemed like he had nothing in the tank to donate to his defensive game, which was equally awful last night.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 9:15 AM CST up reply actions
He had the one major defensive gaff on Sutton’s goal, which is enough to condemn him (for a single game) in my eyes, but other than that I didn’t notice anything really conspicuous—defensively. On the Edmonton end of the ice he looked good.
www.mjt.org
Yeah, "equally awful" is over the top by me
I saw him wandering a couple of times, plus the play that resulted in a goal, but nothing unusual for Sharp.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Brouwer was on the powerplay last year
but almost exclusively on the second unit. His PP rating was one of the better ones on the team, and he finished the year with 7 powerplay goals.
This is Hack in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.
You have his stats memorized, don't you?
by Katherine215 on Jan 3, 2012 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
his career stats through last year
are tattooed on my forearm, right under a mural of his face
This is Hack in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.
ahahaha, like a QB with the book of plays on his arm.
Hack hears about incorrect Brouwer stats cited on SCH, pushes up his sleeves, and gets to work righting this wrong.
by Katherine215 on Jan 3, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes, this was not a good game from everyone
But the fact that the Hawks had 10 minutes of PP time, and then another minute with an extra man, and couldn’t score once while the Oilers were able to do it twice in 9 minutes is unacceptable. One in 22 attempts? Really? There is no reason either of the two units should get a goal at least once out of every ten attempts. Whether this is Kitchen or Havi’s fault for not having plays ready, or Q for not picking the right guys, needs to end now. It’s a game shy of being halfway through the season, and it’s been the same clown shoes since the first week in October.
On the whole, I did see flashes of good hockey from almost all players (I remember Scott doing a good job marking his man at least once, so it counts, but nothing that could sustain multiple shifts, and certainly not when anyone else on the ice decided to play well either. I don’t know if the Oilers get jazzed up when they play us (and man, those kids are fast), but the Hawks were fighting something all night. Effort wasn’t met with any results, and whatever was going on in their heads didn’t seem to translate on ice. A pass was just a little off, waited just too long with the puck, and frustration was high.
Crow should at least have had Eager’s goal. On the first he really should have had that covered, but I haven’t seen an angle that directly shows where the puck is, and I’d really like to know how three Oilers were able to wack away at that. I don’t know how the ref didn’t call a high-stick when he was looking right at Hammer. And once he went down I don’t think any other Hawks knew what was going on to cover, and already being down a player doesn’t help. The third, Crow could have had, but I don’t think he saw Sutton who was able to walk straight into the slot. I believe that was Sharp’s man, but I remember Vik took his sweet time getting back down. He did make some great saves, but just like the team couldn’t get something consistent going.
That was Sharp's man...Vik would have to abandon his assignment to cover up for Sharp
…Sharp had a tough game…baby must be fussing through the night.
H'8ter Proof™
by ccm on Jan 3, 2012 5:21 AM CST up reply actions
I may not have the sharpest hockey mind around
but I can do simple math, something our Men of Four Feathers clearly cannot master.
I swear I lost count of the number of times we had three guys within 10’ of each other at the blue line on a PP entry attempt. That utterly negates the advantage, as 2 guys can defend 3. Their overall inability to maintain spacing in general, while utterly failing to maintain any significant presence in the area from the slot forward to the net, is the most consistently frustrating thing I see from this team, and it must be fixed.
Frankly, the power play is nothing short of embarrassing given the level of talent. They should give a part of their paychecks to folks in attendance for making us watch that slop.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
by 334Rules on Jan 3, 2012 8:58 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
Why didn't Hjammer get that call?
And why didn’t Kane get a hooking call after that? And why didn’t Belanger get called for interference on Seabrook?
It might have something to do with Carbomb’s penalty, especially with the high stick to Hjammer. Seemed almost like the official’s mindset there was “Fuck you guys. I’m gonna make you serve the entire 5 minute penalty. Because if I could make it 10, I would.”
Refs are human too. It really appeared that after Carcillo’s major, if it wasn’t over-the-top obvious, they weren’t gonna call it. Part of me doesn’t blame them.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 9:23 AM CST up reply actions
Most of me blames Hjammer for acting like a chicken with no head after the high stick occurred.
I thought he had a sub-par game last night.
I do stuff for CheerTheAnthem
It's unfair to say for sure he was selling that though.
I’ve never taken a stick to the face, but I can imagine it hurt like a bitch. His mistake was in going for, and missing, his stick. But I’m going to chalk that up to being slightly stunned from a whack in the face and not thinking clearly and move on.
this is why I was a bit nebulous
when I brought up the topic
This is Hack in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.
Fair enough.
The worst was the high stick to Toews. Sweet jeebus that looked painful.
I do stuff for CheerTheAnthem
I was thinking the same on the missed calls
but I’m not one to complain about officiating. I’m much more upset with what transpired with the hit and a poor special teams.
Yup, Hawks still had their opportunities
I feel the same about the officiating most of the time. Refs tend to even up calls, or sometimes look the other way, or not, depending on the player. It’s the way it is, unless you have robots officiating.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
Was at the game and just heard Foley's call on the Carcillo hit
I already liked the guy but my respect for him just shot up even more with the frank honesty. Much of the crowd was appalled that a penalty was called on Carcillo while I had my head buried in my hands knowing he just went full retard.
Also, I don’t know how much you saw on the live feed but Carcillo was putting zero weight on his leg and was in serious distress coming off the ice, even if he wasn’t going to be suspended I doubt you’d see him for quite a long time.
by Joe03 on Jan 3, 2012 1:39 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
In an arena of about 21k, I’m sure less than a thousand understand even a little of how hockey works, and I’m sure not every person could see the hit properly. But the retard comment was unnecessary.
I can be offensive to many, that is certain. And I certainly have my filter on for commenting here; however I will never censor the great Robert Downey Jr, that man’s redemption from substance abuse has earned him my full backing, I don’t care if he goes full Mel Gibson.
.
I was in section 310
The hit didn’t look nearly as bad from there until I saw the replay on PD with the hit from ice level. Ouch…uncalled for.
i like everything about the carcillo hit except the fact that he got hurt.
we all cried last year that this team didn’t have any grit or toughness, now we whine when scott sticks up for a teammate or carbomb unloads on a guy. can’t have it both way folks…
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 1:55 AM CST reply actions
Since when does
grit or toughness = dirty, dangerous hits?
welcome to the NHL?
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 2:20 AM CST up reply actions
I am Ron Burgundy?
Sorry Triples, I could not pass that punctuation mishap up(lol). I know what you are saying about the Carbomb hit but I do think it was a dumb move on his part. I do hope this injury is not that serious because the guy has won me over with his play for the most part this season.
"Make the bastard chase you, he will follow."
by RaoulDuke27 on Jan 3, 2012 2:36 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
No
It’s entirely possible to hit someone against the boards or in open ice without running them over. When a player hits someone, he already takes himself out of the game. Hit the guy, then move on. There’s no reason to run him over.
i am not agreeing with it
but it is the way NHL is played. seems to happen every night now…
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 2:41 AM CST up reply actions
You said you liked everything about Carcillo's hit
And this kind of roughness is exactly what people want to fix. An ambivalent attitude doesn’t help.
as the NHL is currently played, the hit is fine IMO.
this is not olympic hockey yet. until they outlaw hitting, plays like this will continue. i actually loved the hit, i don’t think his intent was to drive his head into the boards.
would i like to see a much more skilled based game? absolutely. has the NHL taken steps to change the direction of the league? slightly. are we there yet? no. so i will continue to cheer big hits that i don’t find thuggish.
car went to light the guy up, it’s a fast game and with players skating over 20 mph. he didn’t cross check the guy head first into the boards. i don’t find the hit all that appalling.
loving the contact and agreeing with contact are two different things. let’s face it, big hits like this make sportscenter which helps draw interest. skill plays don’t always make the top 10. meat head mentality or not, this is the reality of the sport.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 3:05 AM CST up reply actions
Yes nothing like senseless contact
With utter disregard for the other player. This was a stupid play and it amazes me that someone is saying they love it.
disregard for himself too
that is how carcillo plays.
look at football, how many times can a player form tackle yet decide to lead with a shoulder or head instead? it is the way professional sports are played whether you agree with it or not.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 3:14 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think it's something that should be used as a 'highlight'
Personally it’s plays like that that may turn the casual fan off of hockey. Oh…he totally was a dick to that guy, what a stupid sport.
really?
that hit would do it for a casual fan?
like i said, i hate seeing a guy cross check another player from behind head first into the boards. this was far from that although it was a very explosive collision.
if both players get up fine from this hit there is a much different opinion on it.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 3:18 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know, I don't have that mind set.
I have friends who say hockey is stupid because of fighting and some of the ‘general goonery’ (there words not mine). So in their minds plays like that could just prove the point to them.
I think it depends on where the casual fans line of though comes from.
If they are a football fan, the big hits and gritty play make them feel at home with the sport.
If they are a soccer fan, the big hits and gritty play are almost the opposite of their sport of choice, and are more likely to be turned off by that type of play.
SCH moderator.
I think casual soccer fans would like the Sedins though
They’d feel right at home with all that diving.
by mad-hatter on Jan 3, 2012 3:29 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
get a room!
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 3:43 AM CST up reply actions
Considering the majority of non-hockey fans I talk to think 99% of hockey players are missing their teeth
Yeah, I think someone would see that hit and decide they had enough of a sport that, to them, only involves hitting other guys.
then contact sports aren't for them...
what does this prove anyways? if this hypothetical “casual” fan was scared away because of that hit, they would have been driven a long time ago.
btw are you referring to colin cowherd? ;)
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 3:23 AM CST up reply actions
If Colin Cowherd was hit like that
then I might like the hit. Sorry guys I just loathe that dbag.
"Make the bastard chase you, he will follow."
by RaoulDuke27 on Jan 3, 2012 3:26 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
This is sily
I can’t believe we’re even arguing over justifying the hit. It was reckless, dangerous, and uncalled for end of story. When the hometown announcer can acknowledge the same then you can’t really say much else about it.
if coach Q calls it a "counter-hit"
then i will side with him over PF.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 3:31 AM CST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure Coach Q said it was a bad hit that deserved the major
"Well now you're just talking like Foghorn Leghorn!"
by justforkicks on Jan 3, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
Not exactly
In American football, or even to an extent soccer and basketball, physical play doesn’t reach the level that it does in hockey. In the latter two, hitting isn’t included in how the game is played, and is more incidental with marking men up and keeping a tight defense. American football, while it has hitting and often ends with some pretty nasty hits, doesn’t involve slamming guys against the board. And compared to the boards and the ice, that turf is pretty comfortable.
And this is why Crosby is good for the game. As much as it annoys the shit of everyone who is not a Pens fan, he is fun to watch and makes pretty moves and scores goals. To someone who is just watching a game to pass time, that’s what gets people interested.
And I prefer to pretend Colin Cowherd doesn’t exist, just like everyone else on ESPN.
Last time I checked there were no boards on the football field into which players can be smashed. If I had to pick a sport that would hurt more, it’d be hockey.
Right, so because football doesn’t have boards or ice it doesn’t reach the physical play that hockey has.
I can see the reasoning to your name now.
On average, I'd say no
Because football players typically don’t run at the speeds most hockey players can skate at. I know football has it’s own problems with injuries and difficult play, I never said it wasn’t physical.
i've played both...
obviously not on any professional level but with all the padding in hockey, football is way more painful to play.
i can only imagine the pillow boards the pros get to play on. and after re-watching the hit several times i would say the opposing player probably left with a knee or ankle injury much like carcillo.
anyways, ice is much harder than grass or boards.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 3:42 AM CST up reply actions
I've never known any person that has played both
At least I don’t think so. I don’t know how padding compares, and I’ve never investigated into it, much less the pro-level, because frankly a tackle or a hit don’t sound appealing at all. But okay, I’ll bow out and say I was wrong.
no need to "bow out"
i would just say that a hockey player’s biggest fear is getting hit with a puck where there is a gap in the pads.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 9:43 AM CST up reply actions
true true
but in american football we have 300+ lb linemen tackling defenseless quarter backs half their size. it’s all relative.
i don’t like seeing players get hurt. i am sick and tired of all these concussions, but what can the NHL do besides outlaw hitting?
it was a big hit, he will get suspended for it but i don’t think it’s half as bad as Nash punching a recently concussed player in the head after the whistle, or cross checking someone head first into the boards which i see about twice a week.
like i said in a previous post, i feel that it was an extremely violent hit, but taking shots at a guy’s head is no better than what
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 3:38 AM CST up reply actions
Well if a 300 lb linemen gets to the quarterback
Someone’s not doing their job. But they’re also not hitting them at 25+ mph. Football hurts, I’m not saying it’s a light-sport. But football doesn’t have anything to prove with the American viewer. Hockey has a lot to prove. And the NHL could start by being consistent with hits, or the organizations could make it clear with their own teams that hitting heads are not acceptable.
i am sure most people will side with you on this topic
but most of them were crying that we were getting bullied last year. goodnight all.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 3:48 AM CST up reply actions
i am not arguing
grit vs dirty play. i don’t think the play was all that dirty.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 9:40 AM CST up reply actions
something tells me that if last night’s hit was by Matt Cooke against the Tazer guy, you’d see it differently.
THAT HIGH STICK ON TOWES WAS DIRTY!
;)
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 9:56 AM CST up reply actions
look at my track record though
i said seabrook should have kept his head up. he is probably my 3rd favorite player on the team.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
don't care about your track record
it’s your opinion and that’s fine by me, but I don’t think the Seabs hit has anything to do with last night’s hit. Carcillo laid out what I consider a dirty hit. The result of that hit was a 5 minute major + two injured players, with probably both seeing extended time off.
If Cooke hit Toews in the exact same fashion that Carcillo hit Gilbert, and Toews was facing a pretty significant knee injury, I don’t believe you’d be singing the same tune.
i don't think you have to take out hitting. i'm sure there is a highlight reel
of good clean and exciting hits. players have to have respect for each other.
At this point I still think the penalties and suspensions are arbitrary, so that is really skewing what players think is legal and what isn’t. I think, there should be, no matter what, x number of games for a head hit, y number of games for charging, z number of games for boarding, etc…right off the bat. THEN Shanahan can add on to that or not with his views on whether it is intentional or not. Right now, he’s still making some calls that I don’t agree with and/or find his explanations confusing – it must be even worse for the players.
"Well now you're just talking like Foghorn Leghorn!"
I'll admit
I loved it when I saw it, until I saw the ref’s hand go up and neither player rise.
how many times can a runner slide into home plate
yet they decide to run over the catcher? there are examples in every one of the 4 major sports.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 3:15 AM CST up reply actions
I know this, I'm not debating the fact
I’m debating that plays like that are stupid and it’s up to the respective leagues to corral it and not let it happen.
Judd Sirott
made a good point about the hit in the postgame (blind-squirrel-nut theory at work): there was absolutely no need for the hit in the context of the game at that point. Like others at the game, from my vantage point it did not look egregious in live action (and I haven’t seen the replay yet), but even without any maliciousness, it wasn’t a particularly smart play.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
by 334Rules on Jan 3, 2012 9:07 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
Agree
There was even a moment when I thought I heard sort of a cheer followed by a gasp as the crowd realized what happened. The cheer when they saw the initial contact thinking a big hit on Oiler had just taken place, followed by a gasp when his body went into the boards and both players ended up on the ice in pain.
and that is why he is called
“Carbomb”
H'8ter Proof™
by ccm on Jan 3, 2012 5:29 AM CST up reply actions
I agree,
Carcillo didn’t need to put that much of a hit on him, simply riding him into the boards would have had the same effect on the play without the injury results. But watching the replay this morning it certainly looks like the Defender is aware of Carcillo and it appears like he is looking for contact on this play, turning his head and body more towards Carcillo and taking his attention off the puck. It was boarding but I don’t think that this was the dirtiest hit of the year in the NHL as well… I’m on the fence still about Carcillo, his play, and where exactly his brain is.
Chicago homer since conception in '87
The best and fastest way to learn a sport is to watch and imitate a champion.
-- Jean-Claude Killy
Cannots take note^
by TazerNation19 on Jan 3, 2012 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
Pittsburgh Penguins II.
My serenity is inversely proportional to my expectations.
LET’S GO HAWKS!!!!!
Unless the special teams are completely reworked from top-to-bottom by next game
This is not a team capable of winning in Philly.
Blackhawks bleed Red & White.
We are all Canucks...including Toews, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, ...need I go on?
Oh boy.
Oh hey yeah, the best team in the league can’t beat another team.
I do stuff for CheerTheAnthem
the best team in the league
lost to the Oil last night
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
by Timothy Fisher on Jan 3, 2012 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
Doing that is fun, isn't it?
If you predict the worst and it happens, you get to feel like you’re smarter than everyone else. However, if it doesn’t happen, you say ‘boy am I glad that I was wrong!’ and everyone forgets your naysaying.
You’re really good at that game!
Chicagoan in the Lou.
I will go further and GUARANTEE
that the team which scores more goals will win.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
OK. But he has a point, right?
Whether it’s personnel (don’t think so) or attitude (maybe) or tactics (more likely), both PP and PK need more than a little work.. right?
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
I think it’s the “completely re-worked” line that mostly fails, especially coupled with the bold declaration. Philly’s good, but the Hawks have beaten several good teams this year with the same system. Truly, what the Hawks mostly need to do to win is play to their talent level.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
yes...
but that doesn’t mean it’s going to the deciding factor in that game. Hawks could play a clean game, score 5 even strength goals, allow 3 PP goals and still win.
agreed
but if you asked me what the single biggest issue with the hawks was… it would rhyme with “Meshal Meems” (sorry, left my teeth at work)
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
true...
but are the Hawks “Not capable of winning in Philly” because of their special teams?
There’s a difference between isolating our issues and continuing the constant stream of hyperbolic statements that the original poster keeps relying on to make points.
that's kind of what I meant to imply with the "OK"
that bit is hyperbolic but the point is valid.. and if we substitute “Winning in Philly” for “Winning Big Shiny Thing”…
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
i also don't think a little work means completely switching around the teams, or the lines
in most cases i think its tactics/strategy/execution
"Well now you're just talking like Foghorn Leghorn!"
the "little work"
is yer classic Irish/British Understatement… but I think (and this is just me talking, what the hell do I know!) that they should be looking at every aspect of ST and nothing should be off the table in terms of fixing them.. but it’s up to the professionals to decide what that is..
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
One thing I would do on the PP
is take away Keith’s role of bringing the puck up the ice on the PP. He’s terrible at it. He’s not a rusher in the classic sense and does not show commitment to skating the puck in with speed. Skating the puck from behind your net and getting it into the offensive zone is something most d-men can’t do. I’m not sure if anyone noticed, but on the last PP, Leddy skated with the first unit and this tells me Q (or Kitchen or whoever runs the PP) recognized Keith’s inability to move the PP up ice and into the zone. He’s terrible at it. Just because you’re role is puck carrier doesn’t mean you have to cross the offensive blue in possession, but you need to give the illusion that you WILL cross the blue in possession. He simply doesn’t leave that impression with defenders.
Every time he starts from behind his own net he rips up ice and then slows to a crawl at his own blueline looking for a pass. This slows the forwards progression and nullifies zone entry (allows coverage to collapse on entry lanes). You need someone approaching the offensive blue with speed which will cause the PK’ers to back off a bit. Whereby that little drop pass or "leave-the-puck-behind-for-Kane" play may actually work because you’ve opened up a large gap and have forced the checkers into either continuing to backtrack (gifting the line to the PP) or into stepping up and intercepting the body or puck (potentially opening themselves up for an odd man rush from their own blueline). Leddy can do it. It’s fine to have Keith on PP #1, but he needs that puck out of his hands until the zone is gained IMO.
You are next.
by M7 on Jan 3, 2012 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
yes!
with you on this one.. he also seems to just stroll back to his own net after a clearance and then have a good think about what to do next after the getting the puck.. while the seconds tick down..
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
It is painful on TV
although I will say taking the time to set-up your rush is ok and more often than not, it’s hard to see where players are getting into position and what the d-man is reading exactly (on TV that is… live you notice a lot more play without the puck). Although darting back to your own end to gather the puck is pleasing to the audience (myself included), in reality it’s often a better play to “stroll” back, allow your forwards (your outlets should your rush get pinched off) to reset and then grab the puck on a rolling start (momentum, it works!). A bad entry attempt, will cost you more PP time than slowing down your puck recovery and allowing everybody to get into position. Repeated bad entries and slow recovery in combination result in me wanting to throw shit at the tube though…
You are next.
by M7 on Jan 3, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
thanks for that!
always good to have a better analysis .. and yes, I generally am foaming at the mouth watching Keith sauntering back on my crappy feed… but you’ve just enlightened me somewhat.
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
The reason
hockey is the one sport which simply does not translate well to TV.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
Deep Sea Fishing?
Yacht Racing? The Annual “Inflate A Condom Using Only The Natural Gases That Occur After Eating Nineteen Turnips Washed Down With Twenty Pints Of Guinness Contest” that used to happen in my village every two years? (they needed a year off for the survivors to clean up)
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
I guess
I had that coming.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
no one had
last years contest coming..
I think they manged to find about two- thirds of Father McRunty after the winner accidentally sneezed as he was presented with his medal.. and O’Laighseaghts haybarn will never be the same again..
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
Yup, yup, yup
You’ve mentioned the difference between a “puck mover/carrier” (Keith) and a “rushing defenseman” (Leddy) before. I completely agree.
OT, I believe you didn’t like the Keith-Leddy pairing, but this was the reason I was OK with it in an offensive role. They both do parallel but different things. And they both play very different styles of defense. Keith is more of a risk-taker, whereas Leddy is actually rather conservative. I always felt Leddy’s speed was good backup for Keith.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, I recall our discussions on the matter
And you’re correct, from an offensive standpoint (particularly PP) this is a golden pairing. They are both confident with the puck on their stick as the last man back and both have great recovery speed if the puck is lost). My only beef was the even strength hairiness in their own paint. Not equiped to handle it.
Also, in regards to the zone entry thing. It doesn’t have to be a d-man either. A forward can have that role – the players just need to adjust and fall into their natural positions once the zone is gained.
You are next.
by M7 on Jan 3, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
i definitely think everything should be looked at, but i think little tweaks can be the answer rather then blowing everything up
but as you say, Q, etc. can be seeing different things and have their own strategy on handling things.
"Well now you're just talking like Foghorn Leghorn!"
Oh I don't think
blowing it all up is the answer either.. certainly not calling for a first PP unit of Scott, Razor, Kane, Bickell and Tommy Hawk..
You’re right, it’s tweaks.. but the Hawks Brains Trust need to approach those tweaks from a viewpoint of “What we have isn’t working (as a whole).. what do we have to change (in every aspect) to make it work”.. rather than throwing enough sh*t against the wall until something sticks..
but anyhoo, my main point was that MhSilver was right in what he was saying, rather than the way he said it..
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
Come on, take a stance.
Get off the fence.
My serenity is inversely proportional to my expectations.
LET’S GO HAWKS!!!!!
Has anyone heard
anything about Kruger’s status? Do you think this brings someone else up from Rock Vegas?
"Make the bastard chase you, he will follow."
by RaoulDuke27 on Jan 3, 2012 2:46 AM CST via Android app reply actions
He's still out with the concussion
He’s been doing off-ice work, but that’s it. And technically we have enough healthy players to dress 20 men, but that means Scott will become a regular. If Kruger looks to be long term, I doubt Q will go with that so I’m betting on Pirri over Smith and Morin.
I'm just telling myself that won't be the case
To save myself from preeminently drinking every drop of alcohol in my fridge.
Kane certainly deserves some finger-wagging
on his play the past few games. He’s been downright awful lately and invisible for the most part. Can’t have your superstar pulling consecutive games like that. Isn’t conductive to winning.
how was Kane "awful"?
he’s been much better these past few games, iMO.
It's been pointed out in the daily links today
How he’s been missing the net short-side with great consistency.
by Ban on Jan 3, 2012 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
Missing the net short-side is awful?
His shooting percentage is way below his career average, but that should correct itself. More importantly, he’s not the defensive mess he’s always seemed to be. I think he’s been pretty good overall.
Missing it a few times isn't a big deal
But the LA game alone he missed a good 5-10 times. I have no doubt that he’ll pick it up again but for now, he’s not doing so well.
What I am concerned with is the lack of goals coming from his stick. 9 goals in nearly 40 games isn’t going to cut it from someone like him.
by Ban on Jan 3, 2012 5:21 PM CST up reply actions
i do think he needs more goals, but as a playmaker, wouldn't you expect more assists out of him anyway?
"Well now you're just talking like Foghorn Leghorn!"
I don't think he's been awful, but hasn't been the dynamo we're used to
still has 12 points in 14 games though.
"Well now you're just talking like Foghorn Leghorn!"
", you'll probably be embarrassed that the hit was made by someone wearing the Indianhead"
…. Hack you are dead on,,,exactly how I felt.
H'8ter Proof™
I want to see the Stalberg-Bolland-Bicks line put back together
and bring up a young D-man, maybe Connelly.
Connelly is waaaaaay to small
so no. Please do not bring up Connelly.
that line was back together for a bit
in the third
This is Hack in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.
We saw the Bruno with DDN on the PP experiment last night
during the second two periods. And it sucked.
The Hawks are successful when they are moving to the center of the ice. Many chances last night both even strength and PP were from skaters moving towards the boards or the corner. And that made it easy for Dubnyk in net.
They need to be much more active coming off the boards rather than going into them. Kane on the half wall helps this, but we need some other players to get on board as well.
not sure how I missed this
If that was the case, then thanks for pointing it out.
This is Hack in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.
I thought I saw it on the last 1 or 2 PPs
Definitely saw Hossa with Bolland and Stalberg/Hayes on one of them.
by Katherine215 on Jan 3, 2012 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
While it was nice seeing Q reward the kid for his goal, I’m not sure he should have been out there on the PP. I didn’t feel the kid felt comfortable with his positioning on that final one-man advantage.
Agreed
I know Q likes the hot hand, but sometimes he just makes no sense. At least mix up the PP with guys who have been with the team for more than 4 days.
by Katherine215 on Jan 3, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Counter point : The guys that have been with the team more than 4 days have almost all been proven failures on the PP lataly.
Stalberg excluded.
I do stuff for CheerTheAnthem
I think you can jumble the units
or throw out a Fro or a Bickell before going to the guy who has no clue what the plays are and where he should go. Not that it matters really. Seems like it’s going to fail no matter who is out there.
by Katherine215 on Jan 3, 2012 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
I don't really disagree.
However I’m sure his instructions were pretty simple: Create some traffic out in front of the night.
I agree though that the PP seems pretty dam helpless at this point.
I do stuff for CheerTheAnthem
Time to admit that the power play ineptitude has more to do wtih philosophy than chemistry
This is my haiku
It is only three lines long
Thanks for reading it
by Sparky The Barbarian on Jan 3, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
This is the school of thinking I am starting to gravitate towards
The philosophy seems to be if it isn’t working within the first 10 minutes, change it. This has been a Q sticking point since he has started coaching the Hawks. He has an itchy trigger finger when it comes to the lines, not just PP but with all his lines.
The game is so fast a lot of the play relies on instinct and knowing where your linemates will be. Something that helps this is PLAYING WITH THE SAME GROUP OF GUYS. The constant line changes seem to be hindering this IMO and just taking your foot off the coaching pedal and letting the guys figure it out may be the best solution.
It’s not like the Hawks are the Columbus Blue Jackets where nothing works and they can’t win a game… These guys know how to play so let them figure out how to play with each other (sounded a lot dirtier than I meant it)
Chicago homer since conception in '87
The best and fastest way to learn a sport is to watch and imitate a champion.
-- Jean-Claude Killy
Cannots take note^
by TazerNation19 on Jan 3, 2012 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
65 / 35
Carcillo never plays another game for the Hawks, IMHO.
My serenity is inversely proportional to my expectations.
LET’S GO HAWKS!!!!!
As much as I'd want them to
The Hawks aren’t going to just cut ties and walk away.
Chicagoan in the Lou.
I can see this
but only because of injury. I would be somewhat surprised if that wasn’t a season-ender.
by Katherine215 on Jan 3, 2012 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
I’m not as hard on Carcillo as you and Foley. Sure he deserves to be suspended and the hit was needless, but I do think that play was slightly odd and could be blamed on speed and how the play developed. Carcillo had made up his mind he was going to hit Gilbert and when Carcillo actually got in a better position to play the puck based on Gilbert’s line, Carcillo chose not to change his mind. This is generally my biggest problems with most hits in the NHL today. Players seem to no longer care about playing the puck. I think he expected to meet Gilbert at the boards and when Gilbert cut across him, Carcillo shoved him.
Also, I think Q is wrong when he called it a counter hit, but I agree with the idea of what he is saying. Defensemen are allowed to hit forecheckers in basically the same spot Carcillo hit Gilbert and don’t get called for interference. Obviously it is more dangerous when forecheckers hit defensemen there, but until you start calling interference on the defensemen, I think you’ll see this hit happen. Otherwise you are telling the forwards be ready to be hit, but don’t hit that guy unless he decides this time he’s going to play the puck not hit you.
i can understand
what might have been going through carcillo’s mind with the hit, and i can understand where you are coming from. the league allows a certain amount of contact before players reach the puck. hoss does it all the time if there is a loose puck and he is going to meet someone from the other team before they both reach the puck.
when gilbert initiated contact before getting to the puck he was trying to open up that space to win the race to the puck. at that moment carcillo’s brain register’s the contact and can’t help but return with contact. that’s just how the guy is wired. but in that situation, its just the wrong thing to do, and will always result in an over the top play. im up in the air whether carcillo would have pushed gilbert into the boards if he hadn’t initiated contact, ala ovechkin’s hit on campbell, but imo, the way that play ended up is classic carcillo. he can’t help himself in that situation.
This this and so this.
That was just a horseshit play by Gilbert Your momentum is in the wrong direction. You can’t really legally check Carcillo there since what you are doing by initiating contact is technically interference. And you are relying on an opponent whose nickname is “Carbomb” to NOT blow you up when you initiate the contact. Play the puck or in this case when you are beaten to the puck, play the player after they have played the puck. Just don’t get in the way and hope for the best…
I think where the league gets into trouble is when plays that are technically illegal to begin with escalate. I agree with Kev, if the league called the interference on the defender in these situations, it would go a long way in making this play safer…
I think these are valid arguments. However, I still don’t agree myself, but if I did I might still pause on your last sentences, “the way that play ended up is classic carcillo. he can’t help himself in that situation” … cause I don’t agree that the onus then falls on Gilbert to have to recognize that he’s dealing with a guy that can’t help himself. He’s at the line and shouldn’t have to expect that doing his job … keeping his body in front of the puck and bracing for board contact is going to result in his head getting jackhammered into the boards.
www.mjt.org
To counter this,
Carcillo had made up his mind he was going to hit Gilbert and when Carcillo actually got in a better position to play the puck based on Gilbert’s line, Carcillo chose not to change his mind.
The player (Carbomb) is then supposed to minimize contact, the onus is on the hitting player for a clean hit. Once he saw something changed in his plans, he should have minimized contact NOT launch him through the air into the end boards!
IMO, Carcillo’s hit just cannot be justified in any manner, it was roughing, boarding, and illegal hit, and warranted a 5 & 10 with the probable 8-10 game timeout he is getting. I just hope the Oiler is okay.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 8:27 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
attaboy TMFF
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
I guess my point was never to defend Carcillo’s hit. I said it was needless and he should be suspended. My issue was with the idea that this was sort of a premeditated attack. He had made up his mind to hit Gilbert as hard as he could, sure. But I don’t believe the hit he actually delivered was the one he intended. The responsibility is on him and his inability/unwillingness to adapt is why the play ended how it did. The 5 and 10 was the correct call and if Shanahan wants to start suspending people for significant lengths of time, the sooner the better.
But based on Q’s comments, my guess is that when Gilbert moved in front of Carcillo, Carcillo was expecting Gilbert to be trying to hit him or stand him up, not just skate behind the net. So Carcillo was expecting some push back when he blew Gilbert up, but Gilbert was not in a position to deliver or receive a hit. Had Carcillo paid any attention to the puck he would’ve known this and that is why he should be suspended and there is no excuse for the shove as I’m not sure when shoving someone ever ends with a good result. But the idea I was trying to state is that how it is called now, there is no clear person who will always be the hitter in that situation. Carcillo is both responsible for hitting Gilbert safely and protecting himself if Gilbert decides to hit him first. I’m not sure it would’ve changed this play (actually I’m doubtful that it would’ve), but I think you would see fewer hits like this if interference was called in other situations and the person knew his only responsibility was a clean hit.
It could also be that Q was just trying to defend his player and that was the only thing he could think of to say. But based on Q’s comment, that was my assumption of Carcillo’s interpretation of that play.
Carcillo committed the inexcusable...and probably has lost his teammates
What Carcillo did was so egregious and so out of character for the Hawks that you could SEE the look of disgust on the face of Toews, Sharp and several others last night. I was at the game and the hard hockey fans were sickened by his play.
Quite simply Carcillo’s actions cost the Hawks a game. It also will serve to significantly lower the respect level other teams have for the Hawks. You can bet the ranch that opponents will gun for Kane and company now, which is why the look of disgust on the part of several Hawk players was so visible on the ice.
Absolutely pathetic. I hope the sob tore up that knee but good and is done wearing the sweater.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
You can bet the ranch that opponents will gun for Kane and company now
Save it. This is nonsense.
I do stuff for CheerTheAnthem
No...it's not
Again, I will convey what I saw DIRECTLY in person at the UC last night. The players wearnig the Indianhead were, for the most part, dumb struck and sickened.
Carcillo lost his teammates last night. Carcillo’s action also put a defacto bounty on the head of Patrick Kane and several others. That’s how the hockey fraternity that I’ve been following for 35 years works. Last night was a very sobering night for the Hawks. The meatball fans whose sum total understanding of hockey is watching Slapshot need to shut up. Yourself included. This wasn’t about aggressive physical play, hard checking…. Rather this was about Carcillo committing an egregious act the likes that hasn’t been seen in Chicago in a very long time. It was bush league, and it stings badly.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Way to dispute a point I never made.
You say teams will target Kane and Co. BECAUSE of this hit. Complete and utter nonsense.
I do stuff for CheerTheAnthem
by HjammerTime on Jan 3, 2012 9:05 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And tired old nonsense at that
…which has never been actually true in my four decades around hockey but has also never stopped being blathered by those who like to think they “know” the sport.
by Paul the Fossil on Jan 3, 2012 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
Please provide specific examples of this
Where a known-fringe player crosses the line into garbage (which they’ve crossed before) and hurts an opponent, and it became open season on that teams skill players.
Chicagoan in the Lou.
Hey Mike, he was AT the game man.
I do stuff for CheerTheAnthem
by HjammerTime on Jan 3, 2012 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Truth
All of us schlubs who saw it on TV weren’t given the gift of foresight from our lord and savior, Hossa.
Chicagoan in the Lou.
No offense but...
You are judging it based on the look of the faces of the Hawks players? Really? Even if you have seats right up against the glass, just looking at their faces to determine their opinion on the hit is a little… presumptuous. I think you may be projecting some of your personal feelings onto the Hawks core.
Chicago homer since conception in '87
The best and fastest way to learn a sport is to watch and imitate a champion.
-- Jean-Claude Killy
Cannots take note^
by TazerNation19 on Jan 3, 2012 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
obviously trying to project 'feelings'
onto Captain Serious is just going to confuse his programming
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
You saw them sickened? Good eyes.
Also, can you please cite some examples of similar retribution? I mean, situations where a player like Kane is going to be hunted because of what a player like Carcillo did last night? Bertuzzi comes to mind, but even that is significantly different, because Naslund was the star of the team, and I’m not justifying it in this context, just pointing out a major difference between the two.
www.mjt.org
And that is the one reason he may never dress for the Hawks again.
What Carcillo did was so egregious and so out of character for the Hawks that you could SEE the look of disgust on the face of Toews, Sharp and several others last night. // Blou
But I do not agree that his actions alone cost us the game. That loss was a total team effort, or lack thereof.
This is my haiku
It is only three lines long
Thanks for reading it
by Sparky The Barbarian on Jan 3, 2012 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
I do think it let all the air out their sails though
And completley lost all headway
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
Pat Foley is a blowhard.
If he was watching the play objectively he would have acknowledged that the defenseman tried to turn to fight Carcillo off of the puck. If Carcillo lets up and gets knocked over,it’s his fault, if the defenseman squares up better and it’s a equal collision, Foley goes “AND A BIG HIT”, but because the defenseman tried to engage Carcillo but wasn’t in a good position Carcillo was supposed to know that even though the Dman was engaging him to fight for the puck he was in a bad position and should have only hit him slightly hard to separate him from the puck. If the dman doesn’t turn to engage him. Carcillo should get the heat he’s getting, but what happened was a hockey play. If you don’t like it change a rule.
Carcillo could have just hit him
Not follow through with his entire upper body and launch him. If it was simply a hit that would be one thing, but it was not.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This
What will get Carcillo suspended, and rightfully so, is the big shove with both arms which sent the opponent flying crazily into the boards headfirst. Had Carcillo simply checked the guy there’d be no problem. (Including, in a nice piece of karma, no wrecked knee for Carcillo.)
by Paul the Fossil on Jan 3, 2012 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
How did Gilbert "try to engage Carcillo"?
Gilbert is skating towards the puck as it circles the boards. He was trying to play the puck, not Carcillo. I have no idea how a guy could engage a player who is behind him.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
It's called ass-play
Toews could do it
But in the end, I think it's going to come back to the Globetrotters, because if there's one thing they know, it's "globe-trotting!"
This is true
Exceptions to every rule.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
Dan Savage
has a whole chapter on that.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
In the replay,
at least to me, it looked like Gilbert knew Carcillo was there and changed his body alignment from straight at the boards, turning his shoulders and head towards Carcillo, which to me seems like he is looking to engage in some contact, not playing the puck. Carcillo saw this turn and instead of making a legal hit that would have been just as effective in eliminating Gilbert from the play, he instead decided to level the guy and injure himself. It’s a little nit-picky and doesn’t change the fact that Carcillo will still miss some games, but just my opinion on the hit.
Chicago homer since conception in '87
The best and fastest way to learn a sport is to watch and imitate a champion.
-- Jean-Claude Killy
Cannots take note^
by TazerNation19 on Jan 3, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
this
but you will never win against CNS…
don’t you dare question his knowledge you meatball!
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 4:10 PM CST up reply actions
ummm...
TazerNation states a point of view and emphasises that it’s his/her point of view.. that’s called rational debate.. quit stirring
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
the last sentence of my post was sarcasm
i’ll make sure to put an emoticon when being sarcastic.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 8:01 PM CST up reply actions
Have you even replied to any of my comments?
No, you haven’t. Quit ya whining.
Meatball.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 4:38 PM CST up reply actions
a
;)
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 4:39 PM CST up reply actions
lol
I am here to humbly serve the Blackhawks and their loyal fans if I happen to coincidentally make a rational argument it is by no means my intention. HMMMMM meatball….
Chicago homer since conception in '87
The best and fastest way to learn a sport is to watch and imitate a champion.
-- Jean-Claude Killy
Cannots take note^
by TazerNation19 on Jan 3, 2012 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
yes, meatballs
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 8:04 PM CST up reply actions
I'm now blind
Fuck you very much! ;)
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 8:07 PM CST up reply actions
CNS is always wrong...
that’s his modus operandi. It’s really quaint, IMO.
I completely agree
and I was sitting low in Section 103, had a clear and close view… there was even a brief second of eye contact between them right before they locked up, which you can’t see in the video. I assume Carcillo was thinking it was give it or get it, and he had better position to give it; so give it he did, carbomb style.
And that’s the problem. It’s not nit picky to say the use of his arms for a targeted and timed shove changed everything
by Gate3anuhHalf on Jan 3, 2012 7:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
So in that split second Carcillo is suppose to
go through a NASA saftey checklist. Determining that his opponent although trying to knock him down isn’t capable of full contact right? Then hit him in a safety minded way, while still trying to make play on the puck and pop it out to Hoss, right?
In short
Yes, actually before he even hits or avoid/minimize the hit altogether. The NHL has been pretty clear on that
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 9:05 AM CST up reply actions
Ugh
Go back and look at the play. There’s no “split-second” decision. Carcillogen stops skating (before Gilbert) and loads up for the hit at the top of the circle. If he is surprised by how Gilbert played the puck, he doesn’t belong on the ice anyway.
But in the end, I think it's going to come back to the Globetrotters, because if there's one thing they know, it's "globe-trotting!"
Yeah, I don't know how anyone can view this as interference or split-second decision??
Watch Carcillo. He appears to never even look at the puck once crossing the blue line. He’s watching Gilbert the whole way and is preparing for the hit halfway into the zone.
Gilbert doesn’t interfere with Carbomb. Carcillo could have veered to the right and followed the puck just like Gilbert. The net wasn’t in his way. I don’t think those stating this was interference understand the rule:
Body Position: Body position shall be determined as the player skating in front of or beside his opponent, traveling in the same direction. A player who is behind an opponent, who does not have the puck, may not use his stick, body or free hand in order to restrain his opponent, but must skate in order to gain or reestablish his proper position in order to make a check.
A player is allowed the ice he is standing on (body position) and is not required to move in order to let an opponent proceed. A player may "block" the path of an opponent provided he is in front of his opponent and moving in the same direction. Moving laterally and without establishing body position, then making contact with the non-puck carrier is not permitted and will be penalized as interference. A player is always entitled to use his body position to lengthen an opponent’s path to the puck, provided his stick is not utilized (to make himself "bigger" and therefore considerably lengthening the distance his opponent must travel to get where he is going); his free hand is not used and he does not take advantage of his body position to deliver an otherwise illegal check.
Gilbert had body position, was ahead of Carcillo, and is skating (parallel) to maintain his position. Carcillo is the one that wasn’t skating, was behind, and used his free hands. He was much closer to interference than Gilbert.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
As Q said Gilbert initiated contact.
Both players are gliding directly to the boards side by side but Gilbert is gliding faster. Right at the Goalie line Gilbert changes direction and cuts in front of Carcillo. He can’t do that. He has to either keep skating and play the puck (not recommended) or let Carcillo have the puck and then play the man.
Waylon'd?
I presume to my comment.
If he had only hit him I would agree, but he did more than hit he sent him flying by using his upper body in the direction of the boards. This he had the ability to decide to NOT do before doing it, even if everything else changed. But Carbomb decided to launch him anyways, even after he may have seen the situation change. This is a choice that can be made in a split second, and if your default is to hit anyways, then you are bound to do something stupid.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 9:14 AM CST up reply actions
have you ever played hockey?
just curious…
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
Yes
And what does it matter? To decide not to throw someone threw the air does not take much thought, in fact it is pretty simple, it takes no action at all.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
just curious...
i would argue that he committed when he started chasing that puck down. he went in hard and when the guy stopped he had no choice but to board him. if he doesn’t smash him he smashes himself into the boards.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
He could have done many other things when he saw the lineup for the hit.
1. Make center body contact only2. Tried to pull up
3. Wrapped him up (even a bear hug)
4. Break hard left
But He chose differently, hit hard and follow through. If Carcillo had ONLY hit him, I would not be taking this stand, but he followed through with his entire upper body and sent a skater flying into the endboards. Whether you have ever skated or not is irrelevant to knowing you can make good split second descisions, maybe not the best, but certainly not the worst. Carbomb chose the worst option of all. If it was a split second choice, what type of mindset is it to chose the worst one first and not a safer if not the safest one instead?
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
you are acting as if carcillo is some rhodes scholar
he knocked his own guy out in the stanley cup fer chrissakes!!! this is what the hawks pay him to do whether you agree with it or not. when he is done being a blackhawk, some other team will pay him for this same edge.
look, until the NHL bans hitting you will continue to see these types of split second “bad decisions”. if you want to be mad, be mad at stan bowman and coach Q.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
Stan or Q did not decide to launch Gilbert
Carcillo did, stupidity and track history or no freaking excuse for what he did.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Q immediately after the game made an excuse for him.
obviously he is coached to walk that fine line.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
I would expect a Coach and teamates to not publicly roast their own
He is still on the team, still needs to contribute, and still has a role (until it is pulled away). This can and I am sure it is, be dealt with behind closed doors, I would not expect the team to air this laundry out to the press and humiliate him, which in the end serves no purpose and can be bad for the team.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
so you don't think Q goes to carbomb and says
“go earn your money”. i am sure Q didn’t instruct him to go board the guy… although when someone braces for a hit, i am not sure how that is considered boarding?
the other player was not defenseless as the rule states, he braced for the hit and got trucked.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
I tell my guys to "earn their paycheck" too,
Does that mean I would condone or even accept stupidty and taking shortcuts in getting the job done? Um, Hell No!!
My guys know this, and if they do something like that, I do not light them up in public I do not embarass them, but behind closed doors you better believe they lose a few pounds of butt!
I cannot actually believe you went to such an extreme in your attempted analogy, this is just assanine at this point. It seems it can only be one extreme or the other, the ability of finding a balance point seems impossible in your arguments anymore or you are completley oblivious to the notion of balance between the extremes.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
From Q's angle
which was essentially the same as mine, only at ice-level and so even less obvious, you couldn’t really see Carcillo getting his hands up before the hit, nor could you see how far Gilbert was from the boards. What Q did NOT do afterwards was call out the refs: he specifically said he wasn’t going to argue the call.
I’d be curious to hear Q’s take on things after seeing a replay.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
"Where brain cells go to die"
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
creative.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
I thought so
And OK, I stand corrected from above. You actually did respond to one of my comments.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Most players in the NHL today
know how to stop by using their skates not other players/ the end boards…
Chicago homer since conception in '87
The best and fastest way to learn a sport is to watch and imitate a champion.
-- Jean-Claude Killy
Cannots take note^
by TazerNation19 on Jan 3, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
have you ever played hockey on saturn's moon "titan"?
didn’t think so…
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
the NHL market thing
is an old joke. I forgot who it was (don’t believe it was a SCH reg), but his lines of attack were “do you play hockey?” and when that one didn’t work, he began using “how many hockey markets have you lived in?”.
Perhaps it should be
“Have you ever been skating to towards the boards expecting to play the puck only to find yourself flying through the air because Carcillo picked you up and threw you?”
But in the end, I think it's going to come back to the Globetrotters, because if there's one thing they know, it's "globe-trotting!"
Have you played in the NHL?
Carcillo is in the NHL. Top of the game right? He made a JV type play trying to impress his dad in the stands.
He needs to be waived, after he is healed.
Hold My Stones
you are dreaming if you think the hawks do this.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Yes I am dreaming.
This guy is a tool. No talent. May be able to play hockey a little , but his head gets in his way. He will never change. He had a golden opportunity, and he fucked it up.
Hold My Stones
"No talent. May be able to play hockey a little"
well there is an oxymoron if i’ve ever seen seen one.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Show me his talent.
He made some passes, yes. What else does he do that someone else making the same money cannot? Not one fucking thing, with the exception of being freak show type entertaining.
Hold My Stones
how about stealing the puck before that pass?
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't say no talent.
That’s one of the unfortunate things about his play. I think Carcillo has decent talent. He skates well, passes well. He he could get his head out of his ass, he would have something to add to a team. And that is positively maddening. Apparently, his brain is not in tune with the rest of his skills. It’s a shame.
See if you can guess what I am now.
by IndianHeadCrest on Jan 3, 2012 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
That's what is maddening about him
Typically, the “cliche” type players are devoid of much talent and they elect to play goonish, dirty, reckless, whatever, in order to find a place in hockey. I think Carcillo has a talent level where that style of play is completely unnecessary. Makes one wonder just how fucked up is his wiring.
See if you can guess what I am now.
by IndianHeadCrest on Jan 3, 2012 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
holy christ!
did he decapitate the guy??? the way you guys are acting is kind of scary. these guys are not out there to play tag and tickle booty with each other.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
All I said was he needs to be waived and the he nade a JV type play
You are the one who is acting scary.
He could end a career with that play. maybe his right?
Hold My Stones
No
did he decapitate the guy
But a hit like that can end a guys career, it can lead to long term midical problems, it can lead to someone living their life out in a wheel chair. Just because it is a game, and very tough and fast game does not mitigate the true danger of what he did. He could have seriously and irrecovably injured someone.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
why are we making carcillo the example?
should Nash be waived? because he did something that IMO was much worse.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
For one I never said anything about being waived
For two, I do not defend this hit or similar ones to it regardless by who or on who. When it is reckless, the consequences should be appropriate, when it is dangerous on top of it, they to be even more sevre.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
so rene bourque should not be waived because he had a similar dangerous hit on seabrook?
or he should be let off of your hook because he has “talent”?
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
Where did I say that or anything resembling what other players have done last night or in the past except Carcillo?
You raise this type of argument because you have nothing else to say that makes any sense.
I said Dan Carcillo should be waived. I should have added that it is not as a result of his hit last night, but because he adds nothing to this team. You need to tell me exactly what he ads to this team that another play could do for the same money. One thing.
Hold My Stones
like lighting firecrackers and seeing if you can hold them
you can do it, but its not smart and you will pay for it like he is paying for it.
Hold My Stones
is your other nickname
three-fingers?
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
what does seabrook
have to do with this hit. You keep bringing in other examples of bad play to justify Carcillo’s dangerous play, which may lead to Gilbert missing an extended period of games.
it's not a general statement
but a pointed statement directed at laaarmer concerning his opinion on waiving carcillo.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
now i know why.
which in retrospect would make my examples invalid. but we are talking about the hit carcillo made which made me assume this is why you would waive him.
therefore, i came up with other examples of good players that have delivered dirty hits that have not been waived.
you just don’t like the guy and think he has no skill. your opinion had nothing to do with the hit. got it.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
He is at best a 4th line 6-8 minute per night player.
He is showing that he is not even capable of that. Why does he need to be on the team?
Hold My Stones
the hawks feel differently...
not saying you are wrong. hawks feel they need to protect their superstars by having carbombs and scotts in skates.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
but you keep bringing up Seabrook
and you keep ignoring the dangerous aspect of Carcillo’s hit by using the smokescreen examples of other dangerous hits.
and players that were not waived*
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
because that was the point of me bringing up other dirty plays.
it then got completely taken out of context so i need to continually remind you guys lol.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
face it dude, Carcillo has got to go.
Hold My Stones
by laaarmer on Jan 3, 2012 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
the only unfortunate part of seeing Carcillo shipped out/waived is the potential of you having to update your sig.
sig?
he’s got that tattooed on his forehead!
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
hmm
why does he have to go? because YOUR opinion is that he has to go?
what happens if he doesn’t go? will you stop watching?
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
You may be the worst overreactor to a comment in the history of history
Yes, I will stop watching The Hawks if Carcillo plays again this year.
Is that what you want to hear? Now go do it to yourself you doer (get it)?
Hold My Stones
you speak as if what you say is hawks edict.
maybe if you came off a little more tame i wouldn’t have to dissect your comments.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
What I say is my edict
You see I’m on an internet comment section of a hockey blog,
Hold My Stones
by laaarmer on Jan 3, 2012 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
you weren't opining
that he should be gone. your were telling me he had to go. as if it were some fact.
if i don’t assimilate to your thinking than i am some fool meat head fan.
gotcha.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
makes for good TV...
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 4:38 PM CST up reply actions
I neer said you were a meat head
I said you were a doer and I stand by it.
I’m sorry that you cannot see that I am fucking with you.
I do, however, think Carcillo needs to go. He is bad for this team that I like.
Hold My Stones
sorry that was CNS that implied i am some meat head.
“because i played” which had nothing to do with why i asked TMFF if they played in the first place.
we agree to disagree good sir.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
one could argue he tried to end kruger's career.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
This is kind of the point about the whole thing.
We want our players to make the big hits to take the other guy out of the play. Too often, Carcillo (like far to many players in the league) is looking for a hit that takes the other guy out of the game.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
Why does this argument always come down to extremes?
No one that I have seen wants to take hitting out of hockey or whimpify it, for lack of a better term.
Playing smart, respectful hockey and not endangering your colleagues lives is not at odds with a fun, exciting game.
by Katherine215 on Jan 3, 2012 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
he did NOT check him headfirst into the boards.
it was dangerous but MUCH LESS malicious than nash punching kruger in the head which could CERTAINLY end kruger’s career.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
let's just leave the nash play out of this
that topic was discussed ad nauseum last week, and it didn’t end well.
This is Hack in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.
sorry i must have missed those threads.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
I don't like what Carcillo OR Nash did.
My point is that playing with respect doesn’t mean the end of hockey as we know it.
by Katherine215 on Jan 3, 2012 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
i understand but this is a fine line for players to walk.
sometimes you just do something stupid even when you know it’s stupid. it’s human nature. he was chasing a puck down, the guy stopped short so he leveled him. he didn’t cross check him but he delivered a blow.
i don’t see this hit being all that dirty, it looked a lot worse than it probably was. they both hurt themselves because of a freak landing.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure how you correlate being launched face first into the boards
as a “freak landing”
See if you can guess what I am now.
by IndianHeadCrest on Jan 3, 2012 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
he wasn't launched face first into the boards
he flew sideways into the boards, i am not denying his face hit the boards but c’mon. face first into the boards would be hitting them perpendicular and not parallel.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Oh. Well in that case, it was perfectly clean
See if you can guess what I am now.
by IndianHeadCrest on Jan 3, 2012 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
one could argue it was not technically "boarding".
although with the ferocity of the hit i believe it was a penalty (roughing). i have read the rule and it is borderline boarding.
not sure if you were being sarcastic or just read about the hit?
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
Huh????????
one could argue it was not technically “boarding”.
41.1 Boarding – A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who checks or pushes a defenseless opponent in such a manner that causes the opponent to hit or impact the boards violently in the boards. The severity of the penalty, based upon the impact with the boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee.
…“The onus is on the player applying the check to ensure his opponent is not in a defenseless position and if so, he must avoid or minimize the contact.”
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
one could argue…
anything
Look TMFF, he’s read the rules and played the game. Not sure why you’re even trying to argue your case in the face of those credentials.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
watch the hit
how is he defenseless? which the rule states.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
This isn't the high to die on man.
I don’t get the calls for his immediate beheading or whatever either, but the hit was dirty any way you slice it.
I do stuff for CheerTheAnthem
the other way
was funny, though!
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
it was roughing.
i agree that it was roughing. i am not going to fall on any sword over this.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
I was completely sarcastic
I watched the game and have seen the replay multiple times. But I wasn’t AT the game, so I have no basis for my opinion.
See if you can guess what I am now.
by IndianHeadCrest on Jan 3, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
you weren't AT the game?
not only do you have no basis for your opinion, what makes you think you’re entitled to one at all? Bandwagoner!
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
I said this the last time Carcillo had a questionable hit:
If I as a person watching have time to cringe because it’s going to be a bad hit, Carcillo has time to hold up, slow down, something.
Doing something stupid even when knowing it’s stupid isn’t human nature for everyone. There are plenty of guys in the league who have managed to not make plays like this.
by Katherine215 on Jan 3, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
or ice skated?
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
Epic Fail
Spector on Torres- The challenge of change
This game happens quick, and you have to react," Carcillo said. “Once you start thinking, it hinders your play. Especially us energy guys. You have to be more conscious. If somebody is in a bad position, maybe you have to let ’em off the hook.”
Hours after saying that, Carcillo threw a highly dangerous hit on Gilbert in a situation that surely did not call for a hit of that magnitude.
Jonathan Toews- "Oh Captain, My Captain"
Finally had a chance to review the replay of the Carcillo hit.
From my vantage point at the UC, you couldn’t really see Carcillo get his hands up right before contact, making it look much more of a shoulder to shoulder hit than anything else, and also looked a little closer to the boards. Having reviewed it, it’s clear Carcillo got his hands up AND the opponent was away from the boards, thus making it a suspendable hit. The degree of suspension will be dependent upon how much of the onus Shanahan puts on the other player, and will also be impacted by Carcillo’s history. I’m guessing the range will be 5 to 10, depending on the extent of the injury to the opponent.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
I hope he gets at least 10 games
it’s the big suspensions that will eventually change players’ attitudes on making a dirty play.
So you're saying
suspending Carcillo for 10 games will make Raffi Torres less of a piece of shit? I don’t think so.
I do agree though that they will pick this hit as their ‘showcase’ ban. I’m also thinking 10 games.
yes.
I do think suspending Carcillo for 10 games and then being CONSISTENT with big suspensions will make Raffi Torres less of a POS. Absolutely.
And that is where the experiment fails
The NHL has been anything but consistent on it’s rulings. When Carcillos hit has people guessing anywhere from 2 to 10 games, it’s clear that nobody knows what to expect precisely because the NHL is NOT consistent.
Watch the Shanahan video on the Torres suspension. Torres got the dept of player safetys attention 3 games in a row for contact to the head. Only hours before his hit on Prosser, he was fined and warned, yet he goes out and does it again … and only gets 2 games. To me, that should be a minimum of 5 games simply for the repeat. The guy was DIRECTLY warned and still did the same thing, so I don’t see where a 10 game Carcillo ban will make Raffi Torres not be a total piece of shit.
I think the problem to the answer you’re looking for is loosely explored in your own post. It’s all about consistency.
Yeah, I agree
that’s why it’s so frustrating
Carcillo will likely receive 4-5 games
His injury should keep him out longer than that. His spiral downward of sub-par play consisting primarily of physical measures should keep him out of the lineup for even longer.
We knew what we were getting and held out hope that a player with a long track record of bad decision making on the ice would turn over here. He didn’t. The chances are up and at this point, we can just hope that Tom Gilbert’s injury doesn’t keep him out long term. A reckless hit where no attempt to play the puck was made by a repeat offender… I think you’ll find that type of language underneath a banner that says “Key Points” in the next couple days.
Dubnyk played pretty solid for the Oilers last night. About the only thing I didn’t really see mentioned in here. Otherwise, Carcillo’s hit will most likely be the lasting image of this game. It’s a bad loss to a team we should easily handle on home ice. That, combined with Hack highlighting our deficient powerplay, is what I hope the team chooses to highlight in its 2 days off.
by JesusMarianHossa on Jan 3, 2012 11:12 AM CST reply actions
I'm calling 8-10
He is a repeat offender, and a repeat from this season
He has been suspended once for an illegla hit
The hit was dangerous, he did not try to limit or minimize the hit
The other player was injured on the play.
IMO Carcillo will be lucky if he only gets 8, would be surprised if went past 10 though.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
Note, however,
that Carcillo’s hit cost us two goals in a game we lost by one. FWIW.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
The title of the Pregame Thread, "The Forgotten Game" turns out to be prophetic
The Hawks, who have beaten the best teams in Hockey this year with gritty, gutsy, performances featuring tight D, a relentless forecheck, and net presence, seemed to have forgotten that poor NHL teams are still NHL teams with NHL talent.
1. Carbomb. Intolerable and unacceptable. While I am not ready to run him out of town for one major transgression, he managed to destroy in 1 second, everything he had built with this team in nearly a half season. If he stays, give him some bench time once he returns from Suspension and /or IR and drop him to the 4th line. While his bush league move changed the game, the Hawks should have been able to over come it.
2. Crow. Not his best game by far. I’m sure he’d like to have 2 of the 4 back.
3. D, no, not the D men, the forwards. After the turnover at the blue line only Sharp returned to the D zone with anything resembling a sense of urgency, and he moved to a man Scott already had covered. This move by Sharp, with the more egregious non appearance of Kane (not sure who was playing the other wing) left the slot open. 3-2 Edmonton.
4. I’ll save it for last. Attitude. This was not a 60 minute effort, not even close. How can we have that effort against the elite teams and win, and not have it against the weak teams and lose? Attitude. Adjust it.
This is my haiku
It is only three lines long
Thanks for reading it
by Sparky The Barbarian on Jan 3, 2012 11:13 AM CST reply actions
Your #3
Watch Stalberg too (I think that him on the back check in the slot). Sharp needs to cover the slot, but Stals is at fault here too.
Hold My Stones
Minor issue as well
Lepisto circles instead of stopping after he take Smyth out of the play. He could have taken the slot had he done this. But I agree that was a forwards responsibility.
I do stuff for CheerTheAnthem
he was the 2nd forward back,
Kane was the last one. Not a good play by any of them.
by Katherine215 on Jan 3, 2012 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
Where does the 2nd forward back cover?
Sharp does not need to cover the puck carrier, but I know what he is thinking there. That is John Scott. Somebosy has to cover the slot. Lepisto has a man. That slot is wide open, because of Sharp and Stalberg.
Hold My Stones
Exactly. You don't worry about damage to the garage roof when the kitchen is on fire.
This is my haiku
It is only three lines long
Thanks for reading it
by Sparky The Barbarian on Jan 3, 2012 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Sharp is Scott's backside support and maybe a bit too close
Stalberg needs to not allow Sutton to get in that position. He blew it.
Hold My Stones
I was agreeing with you
and just clarifying the order of the forwards back since you seemed to have some question about it.
I thought Kane was very slow getting back, too, especially when he’s supposed to be centering.
by Katherine215 on Jan 3, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
That's the thing about playing center.
You cannot always be the 1st forward back. Kane carried (somewhat) the puckj into the O zone. He was deep. Sharp stayed high. I don’t even think Stalberg entered the zone. 1st forward pursues the puck until some point probably the red line. He is making sure the puck carriers goes “nNorth south” and cannot cut back against the D men. Sharp does do this. But for some reason he stays on the puck to the boards. Stalberg as the 2nd man back has to cover the slot 1st and then the points. Kane needs to track back faster than he did, but the Hawks were not outnumbered, except for being out of position, so I excuse him.
Hold My Stones
Couple quick things since Google and Capgeek aren't helping me
When 13 gets suspended, we are not allowed to replace that roster spot with another player, yes? How does that work then if he’s injured long term? Can he “serve” the suspension while injured, then we place him on IR and can call up a replacement for him on the 23 man? Does he just get scratched from X amount of lineups based on suspension time? Kinda a unique situation coming with a injury and suspension happening simultaneously.
Also, I saw Fels tweet about it yesterday but what exactly do all these EL signings mean for the roster? We’re at like 49 of 50 contracts (depending on how they count Makarov) now with the 3-4 new deals signed in the last couple days. Impending moves? Auditioning the kids? Does it affect us in terms of how we’re able to deal draft picks? The draft is not my specialty, nor is reading the dense parts of the CBA.
by JesusMarianHossa on Jan 3, 2012 11:27 AM CST reply actions
CBA stuff
Yeah, you can’t replace a suspended player. But you have 23 on the active so you can just use those or place someone like Kruger on IR and use his spot.
Carcillo would need to serve his suspension before the Hawks place him on IR or LTIR.
Entry Level contracts are just the first contracts you sign. There are some special rules concerning them. Biggest is if you are 18 or 19 and have NOT played in 10 NHL games that year the team can extend your EL contract an extra year.
No on the Max contracts and the draft. The Max contracts could affect bringing additional players in. However, all that means is somebody like Potulny last year would just get traded as part of or at the same time as the trade.
I beleive he would have to serve the suspension after coming off IR.
This is my haiku
It is only three lines long
Thanks for reading it
by Sparky The Barbarian on Jan 3, 2012 11:28 AM CST reply actions
Waiving car bomb would send a message to the league...
…about the credibility and character of the Blackhawks organization, but on and off the ice.
But is that the best thing for the team?
This is my haiku
It is only three lines long
Thanks for reading it
by Sparky The Barbarian on Jan 3, 2012 11:36 AM CST reply actions
reply fials
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
Waiving car bomb would send a message to the league about the credibility and character of the Blackhawks organization
I’m not sure his credibility you speak of has ever actually existed. 70s-80s Hawks had a lot of teams with sky high penalty mins. Late 90s and early 2000’s saw shitty Hawk teams blowing their tops in frustration a lot. This is the org that blames Dave Bolland for missing too much time with a concussion. Yes, people think the Hawks are good at hockey and play a fairly passive game, but I’m not sure everyone views our team as a bunch of Saints.
I do stuff for CheerTheAnthem
I refer to the team's credibility, not Carbomb's
This is my haiku
It is only three lines long
Thanks for reading it
by Sparky The Barbarian on Jan 3, 2012 8:37 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, and I'm saying this credibility you speak of is invented out of thin air.
I do stuff for CheerTheAnthem
Hack was half right….Kaner to the half boards on second unit.
Adam Jahns Kane not on first PP unit. Brunette is, in front of goal. Second PP is Kane, Bolland, Seabrook, Leddy and Hayes. #Blackhawks
Looks like Q wants Hoss to stay on 1st unit.
I do stuff for CheerTheAnthem
that's interesting. I would have switched Hossa to the 2nd PP unit, and kept Kane on the first with Brunette
that is certainly an interesting mix
"Well now you're just talking like Foghorn Leghorn!"
Looks like a semi-bag skate at practice today,
or so says Twitter.
And Darren Dreger is reporting that Carcillo will have an in-person hearing or a conference call. Logistics are still being worked out, so I wonder if that means he’s too injured to fly and they will have to do it via conf call but he’s eligible for 5+?
I’m guessing 6-8, mostly on being a repeat offender, especially in the same season.
I think
we’d all be surprised if it was less than 5 or more than 10.
If in fact he completely blew out the knee, however, and is thus done for the season, how would any suspension impact the team’s ability to replace him on the roster? I saw the above posts, but I’m not sure they make sense under this scenario. Anyone here have a definitive answer?
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
While on suspension
I addtion to him not getting paid, the Hawks have to keep him on their active 23 man roster, meaning they could not place him on IR or call up another from the AHL unless another was also sent down, and his Salary even though not actually paid still counts against the Cap.
The HAwks are effectivley at a 22 man roster for the time with Monty and Kruger injured, that means all healthy guys play, no healthy scratches until Kruger or Monty return or Carcillo’s suspension is over, or Kruger is assigned to the AHL to recall Morin or whoever, since Monty would have to clear waivers, he will not be sent down.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
That
really sucks.
Seems to me that — if a guy is out for the season — the suspension should apply to the roster only to the extent of the length of the suspension. I believe you that this is not the way it actually works, but — like I say — that sucks.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
I think I am not understanding you.
I thought Carcillo has to be able to play before he would serve the suspension, so I think he goes on IR, his roster spot is opened, and he can’t play again until he comes off IR, is able to play, and serves the suspension (where we do not gain the roster spot back and are effectively only allowed 22 players until it’s served).
I would also think Kruger would go on IR before they send him back to Rockford. I thought they had to be able to play before getting sent down but I could be wrong there.
by Katherine215 on Jan 3, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
If the Hawks put him on IR right now yes!
But if they wait until after the meeting no, this could allow teams to “circumvent” a suspension. I agree on the Kruger deal, IR would be best for him, but it does not matter since he does not have to clear waivers, just would not eat a benchspot in the Rock.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
They haven't scheduled the hearing yet
and I’m guessing they should have a diagnosis by the time they do. So hopefully Stan and Co don’t drop the ball on this. If it’s a season-ender, the suspension is next year’s team’s problem, whichever team that might be, right?
by Katherine215 on Jan 3, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
I just got done reviewing the CBA
specifically pages 96-97 and 226-230 (you can find the whole thing here), and I couldn’t find the authority for your position. Can you tell us where to find this?
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
Article 126 Circumvention (Pg 115-16)
Though not specifically stated, it can be investigated as circumvention of the CBA (agreement on suspension per Part 4 on pg 270. i,e suspension are to take effect immediately (cut and paste is not working for me right now)
If Carcillo is badly hurt, he should go on IR now/ASAP. Because the Hawks have two other injured, it could be seen as circumventing the suspension consequences if the Hawks place him on IR after the hearing, in order to free up a roster spot, then have only 20 healthy skaters, let them heal, get a couple healthy guys for scratches then takes Carbombs suspension.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
Gotcha.
I did see the part where the league can challenge the move as being circumvention. My impression was that if the player had a legit injury, they’d be OK, and the only issue would be if the injury (and thus movement to IR/LTIR) was a sham. Thus, if Carcillo truly blew it up, they’d pass the smell-test, so to speak, and be OK.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
Players that are injured like Kruger can NOT be moved to the AHL. So he would need to be placed on IR if the Hawks want to use his roster spot.
A player suspended can’t be moved to IR or LTIR until after the suspension is completed. This doesn’t mean they can’t be hurt and wouldn’t have played anyway. The suspension hurts the player in the pocket book and the team on the roster spot.
You're right about Kruger
but wrong, at least on the face, about Carcillo. If the league believes that Carcillo’s injury is not one which would normally justify a move to IR/ LTIR, they can investigate further and if warranted declare that the move is an improper attempt at circumvention of the rules. It’s not a direct if/then situation, and I’m not sure how much precedent there is on it.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
Sorry what am I wrong on?
Carcillo can’t be moved to IR if he is suspended. He has to serve the suspension first.
Whenever possible, suspensions will take effect beginning with the game immediately following the game in which the incident giving rise to the suspension occurred. As a general matter, a Player who is suspended shall serve a specific number of games.
The only reason I think this says
“Whenever possible” is for those rare instances of multiple coincidental suspensions that occur (like a huge brawl between BOS-NYI) where 4-5 guys from each team a banned. This is so they can be staggered to still afford 20-21 man active playable rosters.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
That is my belief as well.
Which is why Carcillo has to serve the suspension before he can be placed on IR.
Look at it this way
Thee possibilities for Carcillo
No injury – Minor to mod injury – Severe injury
If no injury, ZERO justification in placing on IR
If Minor to Mod, why place on IR if suspension will also give required time to rest?
Severe injury, why not wait for suspension to finish then place on IR?
If the Hawks ever get back to “Roster Spot” or “Convenience” in their argument, it is circumvention, and I would be hard pressed to see how they don’t, except for one instance.
I am not 100% certain, but I believe a player on suspension is banned from all Team Facilities, including the trainer and doctor, but this does not preclude outside doctors. If Carcillo’s injury requires surgery, waiting 2-3 weeks for the suspension to lapse would damage his health. If he needs surgery he will also need the teams trainers and Doctors for the prepping and post surgery Sports Medicine. That is the only case I can see the Hawks legitimately justifying placing on IR then applying the suspension. But if Carcillo can have access to the Doctor and Trainers during a suspension, this is also off the shelf.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
Where?
You need to show me where in the CBA you can place a suspended player on IR. As far as I understand it, a suspended player counts as one of your 23.
The CBA does NOT expressivley stated a player cannot be placed on IR
But implied by the Circumvention Article and Suspension shall take effect basically immediately. If the reason for putting IR first is due to Health issues and health alone, that would not be circumventing the suspension, but placing a higher priority first, the players health.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
they don't have to be able to play to serve the suspension?
I get what you are saying about hurting them financially and through the roster spot, but it seems like you should also face the loss of the player himself on top of it.
Don't see how they could enforce it.
Not in every situation. And lets face it. About the only time this is an issue is when a player gets hurt himself on a suspend-able play. Anyone remember the last time this happened before last night?
I can't think of a time
which is why I think the Hawks would be safe in putting him on IR/LTIR even after any suspension IF in fact the injury objectively warrants it. The “whenever possible” language is the wiggle room, combined with the language in the “physically unfit to play” sections make this possible. I can’t find language which says a team can’t place a suspended player on IR/LTIR, and the language I’ve cited suggests that there are instances where they can. The problem is, this issue is not specifically addressed, so it’s one of interpretation.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
It would be a very very unwise gamble on the Hawks part
The costs of circumventing the CBA are very very stiff (as NJD knows). If the lineage of reasoning ever goes to “Roster Spot” or “Convenience” on the Hawks behalf, it IS circumventing the rule the suspension is to start immediately.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
that making the move before is better than making the move after. I’m just not certain that making the move after is necessarily fatal, but I accept your assessment of the risk.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
as much as I dislike Carcillo
and I think it’s fair to say I disliked him more vocally than most around these parts, I really wanted the guy to become a good, contributing hockey player. Hawks really needed him to step his game up and be a key secondary piece. Sucks that I wasn’t proven wrong…
He was on pace to set a career high in points
I’m not going to defend the guy for whatever he did last night but I’m not sure last night’s game somehow validates why he was such a bad signing. It was one game.
FifthFeather.com
by El Duque's Raft on Jan 3, 2012 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
you'll get your fair share
of assists when playing on the top lines. I thought his play was pretty good for about 5-6 games this season and meh the rest. His passing was good and I could appreciate his hard skating abilities. I guess he was earning his salary for the most part, unlike other offseason acquisitions but still, he found a way to live out my biggest worries with the guy.
If he's played his last game because he blew out his knee
I think we can all agree the signing was ‘meh’. Some good, some bad, pretty much what everyone kind of expected. And for $700k for one year, it wasn’t a bad gamble by Bowman. It’s not like he cost them a ton of points in the standings, if any at all.
FifthFeather.com
by El Duque's Raft on Jan 3, 2012 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
Cost them 2
last night, IMHO.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
Hard to blame last night on one person though, imo.
Corey had some softies, the Kane line blew that other goal, the PP was a joke. 1 PPG and we’ve salvaged at least a point…
by Katherine215 on Jan 3, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
agree
that there’s plenty of blame to go around. just sayin’.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
I know, I thought the same thing too
immediately after the game when I was looking to blame someone. He was a good target alst night.
And I could argue he also contributed
to 2 points against Winnipeg and Detroit, so it really all evens out.
FifthFeather.com
by El Duque's Raft on Jan 3, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
futile argument one way or the other...
the obvious fact that I’d like to point out is we have more than a few holes to plug in at this juncture. If Q doesn’t trust the 3rd defensive pairing, we need to bring in a guy he does trust. And we still need to find a top 6 guy somewhere to round out the team come playoff time.
We have the cap space but do we have the right pieces to make those moves?
I have to say
that the demand for a 3rd pairing D man who can eat some PK minutes and give CRAZOR* room to work is the largest necessity right now.
*this mash-up of our two goalies’ names is copyright 334Rules.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
You mean someone like Steve Montador?
FifthFeather.com
by El Duque's Raft on Jan 3, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly,
only better.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
He is the guy
Giving up assets for a player who might only be marginally better would be a bad move.
FifthFeather.com
by El Duque's Raft on Jan 3, 2012 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
Dammit
the sarcasm button on that last post must have failed.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
To Me and only Me ---Gilbert appears, at the last moment,
to turn in into Carcillo lead with half ass shoulder into Carcillo in a half ass attempt to shield shield Carcillo from the puck. Carcillo quite simply blows up Gilbert. They crash into boards.
Contact from Gilbert is inevitable …….Carcillo, all amped up, unleashed a explosive check… shove on Gilbert.
I get what went on in Carcillo’s mind…… Hockey is body contact game played at 110 MPH ……I get the respect the oppenent part….but Gilbert can’t put himself in a position of half ass bracing for a hit.
H'8ter Proof™
He shouldn't have to brace for a hit
When there’s a puck to be played that the guy hitting him completely disregards.
by JesusMarianHossa on Jan 3, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Gilbert turns into Carcillo for contact ....... Gilbert was expecting "some" contact
…..not Carcillo giving 110% to clear out Gilbert.
Eventually there will be a 3 foot perimeter around the entire rink which will be a "no hit " zone
H'8ter Proof™
3' perimeter
You can always hit someone near the boards as long as you don’t board them. There are plenty of players who play smart and within the rules, IMO.
Sure, maybe he's bracing for contact
or/and he’s simply following the puck along the boards.
He’s likely bracing for contact after the puck is played, not before. And this is why it’s a stupid and flagrant play by Carcillo. No one to blame here but himself.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
then play the puck and Carcillo doesn't board him.
as soon as Gilbert turned into Carcillo for contact trouble begins. Carcillo is grit and this how he approaches a hit…….whether it is the opposing player or one of his own.
H'8ter Proof™
by ccm on Jan 3, 2012 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
so you admit it wasn't boarding.
bracing for contact is not being defenseless correct?
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 3, 2012 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
Bracing for contact =/= bracing to be made airborne
A guy “bracing” for a hard hit does not fly 8 feet through the air
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Wow Carcillo can really play hockey
What about that puck that the guy never touched that you can’t see? It’s over by the net there Dan. Where can we get more guys like Dan? We need more toughness like this or we are domed (yes, domed).
And the guy falls on his leg. It is fucking classic.
Hold My Stones
by laaarmer on Jan 3, 2012 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's KeithStone Cops
See if you can guess what I am now.
by IndianHeadCrest on Jan 3, 2012 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh yeah. That is not boarding
No way!
Hold My Stones
by laaarmer on Jan 3, 2012 4:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
have you played the game?
were you AT the game?
GODDAMMIT DO YOU HAVE A CHARITY!!??
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
by mightymike D on Jan 3, 2012 4:36 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
HAVE YOU EVER BEEN CHECKED BY CARCILLO?
But in the end, I think it's going to come back to the Globetrotters, because if there's one thing they know, it's "globe-trotting!"
by hairhelmet on Jan 3, 2012 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank God No!!!
I would not survive the encounter!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
there's a mate of mine..
who has had my copy of Exile On Main St for way too long… does that count?
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
Obviously,
NOT a violent impact into the boards. Gilbert may as well have a pillow for his flight and landing it was so soft and calm.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 5:03 PM CST up reply actions
shit, yeah..
it was like a fucken Virgin Atlantic Business Class Commercial there…
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
Classic.
Yes, it really is, isn’t it? A very fitting end to the Carbomb experience if it is indeed over.
This bomb will self-destruct in 5, 4, 3…
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
Stop being a
trolling, lemming, Meathead would you!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 4:53 PM CST up reply actions
..2..
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
Heh, Carcillo looks like Aragorn there
Toss me!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
I really wish this was not a fail
I want to laugh! lol
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jan 3, 2012 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
hey TMFF
I reckon dat hOilers guy cud make a gud Canuk.. he dive reel well (betr dan dem sistarz amirite!) dat waz likes 8 feeet!!
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
that's worse than I remember it (watched it on my lonely teevee originally)...
ouch! Too bad I wasn’t at the game, or I might have an opinion about this play.
remind me never to brace for anything...
bracing will fuck you up bad.
a
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
Oy vey
See if you can guess what I am now.
by IndianHeadCrest on Jan 3, 2012 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
his mother should see him now...
I’ma just go flec TMFF again!
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
I implied this. I admitted that. Okee dokee.
I’ll add a legal disclaimer to my sig in the future.
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jan 3, 2012 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
Ugh.
Krugs not so good today. Today was kind of a tough day.
From Q on Kruger. Basically, he regressed. :(
ugh i hate hearing that kind of stuff
poor kruger
"Well now you're just talking like Foghorn Leghorn!"
sheeut
what’s the source, KTG?
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
thanks.
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
That stinks.... Concussions are spiraling out of control
Is it because?
Players are faster and stronger?
We are better at diagnosing concussions?
Both?
H'8ter Proof™
by ccm on Jan 3, 2012 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
it's
“Column A”=“Column B” I think…
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
A poor game from the Hawks who didnt show up to work til the 3rd period.
I’m quickly becoming a big non fan of Carcillo and think the Hawks would be better off without him and his dumb ass penalties. Hopefully he doesn’t survive the trade deadline and he can take Bickell with him unless he decides to show up once in a while.
Defensive breakdowns, poor back checking, mediocre goaltending equals loss to a team that out worked the Hawks for the first 40 minutes.
Hopefully Emery gets a few games now as it is time.
.. slag .,
Did anybody watch "The Summit Series" doc on NBCSP (VERSUS, OLN)?
Bobby Clarke what an asshole. I forgot how much of a dickhead he was.
Phil Esposito. How many cups do The Hawks win with that guy? He could play.
Hold My Stones
Yeah Clark was a real dipshit. Was funny to watch him and Orr come out together for the Winter Classic at Fenway considering all the fights those two had when they played.
Funny but
there are probably 20 or more GMs in the NHL that would cut off a leg to have our problems. Sometimes we need to take a breath and get a little perspective. We’re down two bottom 6 forwards. We’re at the top of the conference standings. We still have 2, 7, 4, 10, 19, 81 and 88, and a goal-tending tandem that, while certainly not Vezina caliber, is perfectly respectable.
This message has been brought to you as a public service by 334Rules.
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. (Jef Mallett)
by 334Rules on Jan 3, 2012 3:03 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
rec
but does that mean we don’t need this? I’ve had it all polished and everything..
enough of the niceties: time for the eye-gouging..
and yes, I probably *should* be asleep right now!
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